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Premiership Spending

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[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933665#msg933665 date=1251396217]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=35468.msg933660#msg933660 date=1251395680]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933654#msg933654 date=1251395102]
what do you think? come on my point is valid whether you accept it or not.
[/quote]

Rage,his point is that it isn't Rafa's fault this market is so inflated.

As to whether he shld have gambled on an injury-prone player to replace our best player last season, that's another story.
[/quote]

and paid 20 million for him - see my point is that rafa has had plenty of money to spend but six seasons in we can barely get a strong 1st 11 out and have fuck all offensive strength in depth.

and as for you mystic, i know the truth hurts but less of the personal insults else i'll come round and shove that wand of yours up your arse sideways
[/quote]

The truth is that we're one of the top 5 teams in Europe and our first eleven is good enough to beat demolish any other team on its day.

The other truth is that our squad is good enough to finish around the 3rd spot with ease but as of yet hasn't been proven good enough to finish where we all want it to finish.
 
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=35468.msg933746#msg933746 date=1251404919]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35468.msg933715#msg933715 date=1251401280]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=35468.msg933711#msg933711 date=1251401088]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35468.msg933694#msg933694 date=1251398854]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933469#msg933469 date=1251380849]
has any other manager spent 20 million on an injured and historically injury prone player before?
[/quote]

Why? Has Benitez?

I could have sworn that trusted sources stated we had paid £5m down for him with the rest of the deal being based on appearances and success. Therefore if we pay £20m for him he will have been worthwhile. If we end up not paying the £20m because he's injured then £5m is not that much of a gamble.

BTW, are you Rashid?
[/quote]

The first instalment was 5m John, we'll end up paying close to 20m regardless of how well he does
[/quote]

I'm sure that I read that the remainder was apearance and success based. Am I wrong then?
[/quote]

The way I understand it is we'll pay £11m in another two installments and then the rest taking it up to £20m based on appearances and success.
[/quote]

I think 20 million Euro is definite irrespective of whether he's a star or Kewell II; which will be paid in 4 instalments until June 2011

The rest are add-ons totalling 3.5 million Euro.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933469#msg933469 date=1251380849]
has any other manager spent 20 million on an injured and historically injury prone player before?
[/quote]

Ferguson bought Owen Hargreaves.
 
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=35468.msg933819#msg933819 date=1251431779]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933469#msg933469 date=1251380849]
has any other manager spent 20 million on an injured and historically injury prone player before?
[/quote]

Ferguson bought Owen Hargreaves.
[/quote]

This 'Rage' cunt will conjure up some way of explaining how that wasn't quite the case. How he could argue that Van Nistelrooy didn't have a history of injuries was quite remarkable.
 
it doesn't matter if aquaman is amazing if by the time he gets fit we're playing super catch up. what then we write off another season under rafa and make it 6 seasons without winning the league.

he was bought in to win the league, to date he has failed and he has started this season as badly as he ever has. when was the last time a team won the league after such a bad start? bolton on saturday is huge, if he loses he should be sacked and the rest of this season used to rebuild under a new manager.

as for utd buying hargreaves, he was bought in the summer of 2007, started the preseason, played throughout the season and won the league and champions league that year. it was only in his second season that he was out due to injuries.

rvn wasn't injured when utd bought him nor did he have a history of injuries. he was out for most of 2000-01 season because of one injury to his knee, prior to that he'd been a regular in the psv side playing most league games over the previous 2 seasons, scoring a record number of goals and winning dutch player of the year. utd also didn't buy him until after he had recovered from his knee injury.

but hey why let the truth get in the way of rafa apologists revisionist bullshit.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933824#msg933824 date=1251436722]
it doesn't matter if aquaman is amazing if by the time he gets fit we're playing super catch up. what then we write off another season under rafa and make it 6 seasons without winning the league.

he was bought in to win the league, to date he has failed and he has started this season as badly as he ever has. when was the last time a team won the league after such a bad start? bolton on saturday is huge, if he loses he should be sacked and the rest of this season used to rebuild under a new manager.

as for utd buying hargreaves, he was bought in the summer of 2007, started the preseason, played throughout the season and won the league and champions league that year. it was only in his second season that he was out due to injuries.

rvn wasn't injured when utd bought him nor did he have a history of injuries. he was out for most of 2000-01 season because of one injury to his knee, prior to that he'd been a regular in the psv side playing most league games over the previous 2 seasons, scoring a record number of goals and winning dutch player of the year. utd also didn't buy him until after he had recovered from his knee injury.

but hey why let the truth get in the way of rafa apologists revisionist bullshit.
[/quote]

and yet Aqualini has never failed to make fewer than 20 starts in a season since he became a regular.

Something that RVN & Hargreaves have managed to do on a few occassions.
 
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=35468.msg933915#msg933915 date=1251450115]

and yet Aqualini has never failed to make fewer than 20 starts in a season since he became a regular.

Something that RVN & Hargreaves have managed to do on a few occassions.
[/quote]

That's actually not true.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933824#msg933824 date=1251436722]
it doesn't matter if aquaman is amazing if by the time he gets fit we're playing super catch up. what then we write off another season under rafa and make it 6 seasons without winning the league.

he was bought in to win the league, to date he has failed and he has started this season as badly as he ever has. when was the last time a team won the league after such a bad start? bolton on saturday is huge, if he loses he should be sacked and the rest of this season used to rebuild under a new manager.

as for utd buying hargreaves, he was bought in the summer of 2007, started the preseason, played throughout the season and won the league and champions league that year. it was only in his second season that he was out due to injuries.

rvn wasn't injured when utd bought him nor did he have a history of injuries. he was out for most of 2000-01 season because of one injury to his knee, prior to that he'd been a regular in the psv side playing most league games over the previous 2 seasons, scoring a record number of goals and winning dutch player of the year. utd also didn't buy him until after he had recovered from his knee injury.

but hey why let the truth get in the way of rafa apologists revisionist bullshit.
[/quote]

Yet Hargreaves has only made 25 league appearances for United in his entire career.

I wish you'd check the facts to back up your bullshit, you tedious, Rafa hating TWAT.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933824#msg933824 date=1251436722]
it doesn't matter if aquaman is amazing if by the time he gets fit we're playing super catch up. what then we write off another season under rafa and make it 6 seasons without winning the league.

he was bought in to win the league, to date he has failed and he has started this season as badly as he ever has. when was the last time a team won the league after such a bad start? bolton on saturday is huge, if he loses he should be sacked and the rest of this season used to rebuild under a new manager.

as for utd buying hargreaves, he was bought in the summer of 2007, started the preseason, played throughout the season and won the league and champions league that year. it was only in his second season that he was out due to injuries.

rvn wasn't injured when utd bought him nor did he have a history of injuries. he was out for most of 2000-01 season because of one injury to his knee, prior to that he'd been a regular in the psv side playing most league games over the previous 2 seasons, scoring a record number of goals and winning dutch player of the year. utd also didn't buy him until after he had recovered from his knee injury.

but hey why let the truth get in the way of rafa apologists revisionist bullshit.
[/quote]

Actually it will be 20 years of not winning the title but no doubt the other 14 years will be down to him as well.

What most of us love about you is bang on about debate but the only valid point is yours. Therefore anyone who disagrees with you about some of the downright subjective, disingenuous crap you spout about Rafa immediately becomes a "Rafa apologist".

You do realise that you're the extremist here, and you're not exactly in the best company with when you consider that your main ally in the "Benitez is a cunt" rally is Le Chachal. Perhaps if you stuck to a few facts rather than your nasty little agenda, you'd find more tolerance.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35468.msg933971#msg933971 date=1251459510]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933824#msg933824 date=1251436722]
it doesn't matter if aquaman is amazing if by the time he gets fit we're playing super catch up. what then we write off another season under rafa and make it 6 seasons without winning the league.

he was bought in to win the league, to date he has failed and he has started this season as badly as he ever has. when was the last time a team won the league after such a bad start? bolton on saturday is huge, if he loses he should be sacked and the rest of this season used to rebuild under a new manager.

as for utd buying hargreaves, he was bought in the summer of 2007, started the preseason, played throughout the season and won the league and champions league that year. it was only in his second season that he was out due to injuries.

rvn wasn't injured when utd bought him nor did he have a history of injuries. he was out for most of 2000-01 season because of one injury to his knee, prior to that he'd been a regular in the psv side playing most league games over the previous 2 seasons, scoring a record number of goals and winning dutch player of the year. utd also didn't buy him until after he had recovered from his knee injury.

but hey why let the truth get in the way of rafa apologists revisionist bullshit.
[/quote]

Yet Hargreaves has only made 25 league appearances for United in his entire career.

I wish you'd check the facts to back up your bullshit, you tedious, Rafa hating TWAT.
[/quote]

what part of what i said isn't true mark? calling me a twat won't help you here.
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35468.msg933972#msg933972 date=1251459710]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933824#msg933824 date=1251436722]
it doesn't matter if aquaman is amazing if by the time he gets fit we're playing super catch up. what then we write off another season under rafa and make it 6 seasons without winning the league.

he was bought in to win the league, to date he has failed and he has started this season as badly as he ever has. when was the last time a team won the league after such a bad start? bolton on saturday is huge, if he loses he should be sacked and the rest of this season used to rebuild under a new manager.

as for utd buying hargreaves, he was bought in the summer of 2007, started the preseason, played throughout the season and won the league and champions league that year. it was only in his second season that he was out due to injuries.

rvn wasn't injured when utd bought him nor did he have a history of injuries. he was out for most of 2000-01 season because of one injury to his knee, prior to that he'd been a regular in the psv side playing most league games over the previous 2 seasons, scoring a record number of goals and winning dutch player of the year. utd also didn't buy him until after he had recovered from his knee injury.

but hey why let the truth get in the way of rafa apologists revisionist bullshit.
[/quote]

Actually it will be 20 years of not winning the title but no doubt the other 14 years will be down to him as well.

What most of us love about you is bang on about debate but the only valid point is yours. Therefore anyone who disagrees with you about some of the downright subjective, disingenuous crap you spout about Rafa immediately becomes a "Rafa apologist".

You do realise that you're the extremist here, and you're not exactly in the best company with when you consider that your main ally in the "Benitez is a cunt" rally is Le Chachal. Perhaps if you stuck to a few facts rather than your nasty little agenda, you'd find more tolerance.
[/quote]

extremist? what part of what i said in this post is inaccurate? we were talking about buying injured players and i presented the information to demonstrate that neither rvn nor hargreaves were as ryan and mystic described.
 
Hargreaves made 16 league starts in his first season with United.

Not even half their league games.

He made his United debut in a 1-0 defeat to Manchester City, but featured only four times before November due to niggling injuries.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933975#msg933975 date=1251460066]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35468.msg933972#msg933972 date=1251459710]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933824#msg933824 date=1251436722]
it doesn't matter if aquaman is amazing if by the time he gets fit we're playing super catch up. what then we write off another season under rafa and make it 6 seasons without winning the league.

he was bought in to win the league, to date he has failed and he has started this season as badly as he ever has. when was the last time a team won the league after such a bad start? bolton on saturday is huge, if he loses he should be sacked and the rest of this season used to rebuild under a new manager.

as for utd buying hargreaves, he was bought in the summer of 2007, started the preseason, played throughout the season and won the league and champions league that year. it was only in his second season that he was out due to injuries.

rvn wasn't injured when utd bought him nor did he have a history of injuries. he was out for most of 2000-01 season because of one injury to his knee, prior to that he'd been a regular in the psv side playing most league games over the previous 2 seasons, scoring a record number of goals and winning dutch player of the year. utd also didn't buy him until after he had recovered from his knee injury.

but hey why let the truth get in the way of rafa apologists revisionist bullshit.
[/quote]

Actually it will be 20 years of not winning the title but no doubt the other 14 years will be down to him as well.

What most of us love about you is bang on about debate but the only valid point is yours. Therefore anyone who disagrees with you about some of the downright subjective, disingenuous crap you spout about Rafa immediately becomes a "Rafa apologist".

You do realise that you're the extremist here, and you're not exactly in the best company with when you consider that your main ally in the "Benitez is a cunt" rally is Le Chachal. Perhaps if you stuck to a few facts rather than your nasty little agenda, you'd find more tolerance.
[/quote]

extremist? what part of what i said in this post is inaccurate? we were talking about buying injured players and i presented the information to demonstrate that neither rvn nor hargreaves were as ryan and mystic described.
[/quote]

Don't be obtuse! See the wider picture.

Virtually every other post you make is dripping with anti-Benitez sentiment. We get it. You don't want him as manager but quite a large amount of what you post is not based on fact its based on your extremist spun opinion of him.

Like I said before, are you Rashid?
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35468.msg933977#msg933977 date=1251460276]
Hargreaves made 16 league starts in his first season with United.

Not even half their league games.

He made his United debut in a 1-0 defeat to Manchester City, but featured only four times before November due to niggling injuries.
[/quote]

ah selective again. 23 league appearance. more than half their league games.

my point still stands, utd did not buy an injured hargreaves nor a injured rvn.
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35468.msg933978#msg933978 date=1251460400]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933975#msg933975 date=1251460066]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35468.msg933972#msg933972 date=1251459710]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933824#msg933824 date=1251436722]
it doesn't matter if aquaman is amazing if by the time he gets fit we're playing super catch up. what then we write off another season under rafa and make it 6 seasons without winning the league.

he was bought in to win the league, to date he has failed and he has started this season as badly as he ever has. when was the last time a team won the league after such a bad start? bolton on saturday is huge, if he loses he should be sacked and the rest of this season used to rebuild under a new manager.

as for utd buying hargreaves, he was bought in the summer of 2007, started the preseason, played throughout the season and won the league and champions league that year. it was only in his second season that he was out due to injuries.

rvn wasn't injured when utd bought him nor did he have a history of injuries. he was out for most of 2000-01 season because of one injury to his knee, prior to that he'd been a regular in the psv side playing most league games over the previous 2 seasons, scoring a record number of goals and winning dutch player of the year. utd also didn't buy him until after he had recovered from his knee injury.

but hey why let the truth get in the way of rafa apologists revisionist bullshit.
[/quote]

Actually it will be 20 years of not winning the title but no doubt the other 14 years will be down to him as well.

What most of us love about you is bang on about debate but the only valid point is yours. Therefore anyone who disagrees with you about some of the downright subjective, disingenuous crap you spout about Rafa immediately becomes a "Rafa apologist".

You do realise that you're the extremist here, and you're not exactly in the best company with when you consider that your main ally in the "Benitez is a cunt" rally is Le Chachal. Perhaps if you stuck to a few facts rather than your nasty little agenda, you'd find more tolerance.
[/quote]

extremist? what part of what i said in this post is inaccurate? we were talking about buying injured players and i presented the information to demonstrate that neither rvn nor hargreaves were as ryan and mystic described.
[/quote]

Don't be obtuse! See the wider picture.

Virtually every other post you make is dripping with anti-Benitez sentiment. We get it. You don't want him as manager but quite a large amount of what you post is not based on fact its based on your extremist spun opinion of him.

Like I said before, are you Rashid?
[/quote]

i like to think of it as pro liverpool sentiment. who does the buck stop with? rafa's failed mate and if he fucks up again this year how much longer will people like you blindly follow him. he was brought in to win the league.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933984#msg933984 date=1251460679]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35468.msg933977#msg933977 date=1251460276]
Hargreaves made 16 league starts in his first season with United.

Not even half their league games.

He made his United debut in a 1-0 defeat to Manchester City, but featured only four times before November due to niggling injuries.
[/quote]

ah selective again. 23 league appearance. more than half their league games.

my point still stands, utd did not buy an injured hargreaves nor a injured rvn.
[/quote]

They had a an agreement in principal to buy RVN after he done his knee in. That's why Ferguson ,kept visiting him post op to monitor his progress.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933984#msg933984 date=1251460679]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35468.msg933977#msg933977 date=1251460276]
Hargreaves made 16 league starts in his first season with United.

Not even half their league games.

He made his United debut in a 1-0 defeat to Manchester City, but featured only four times before November due to niggling injuries.
[/quote]

ah selective again. 23 league appearance. more than half their league games.

my point still stands, utd did not buy an injured hargreaves nor a injured rvn.
[/quote]

They bought a player who was suspect with injuries, and he still is, he still didn't play as an ever present, if you consider he 'started' less than half their league games. So he made 7 as sub? Well he was either considered not needed or was coming back from injury. Which was it?

Regards RVN, injury prone or not, he'd had a terrible injury and they still took the risk on him returning to full fitness.

Either way, for the money and considering their recent injury problems at the time, both were gambles.

When RVN was injured United agreed to buy him (in principle), ensuring they didn't miss out when/if he returned to full fitness. So essentially they agreed on buying an injured player in the hope he'd return to what he was.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933984#msg933984 date=1251460679]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35468.msg933977#msg933977 date=1251460276]
Hargreaves made 16 league starts in his first season with United.

Not even half their league games.

He made his United debut in a 1-0 defeat to Manchester City, but featured only four times before November due to niggling injuries.
[/quote]

ah selective again.  23 league appearance.  more than half their league games.

my point still stands, utd did not buy an injured hargreaves nor a injured rvn.
[/quote]

Hargreaves was notoriously injured before they signed him! It's why they waited another year to make him their player.

Prior to signing for United, RVN tore his cruciate ligaments, an injury some footballers fail to return from - again they waited a further 12 months to make him their player.

You don't half argue some shit, Rage.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35468.msg933993#msg933993 date=1251461061]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933984#msg933984 date=1251460679]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35468.msg933977#msg933977 date=1251460276]
Hargreaves made 16 league starts in his first season with United.

Not even half their league games.

He made his United debut in a 1-0 defeat to Manchester City, but featured only four times before November due to niggling injuries.
[/quote]

ah selective again. 23 league appearance. more than half their league games.

my point still stands, utd did not buy an injured hargreaves nor a injured rvn.
[/quote]

Hargreaves was notoriously injured before they signed him! It's why they waited another year to make him their player.

Prior to signing for United, RVN tore his cruciate ligaments, an injury some footballers do not return from, again they waited 12 months to make him their player.

You don't half argue some shit, Rage.
[/quote]

both rvn and hargreaves were fit to start the season. aquaman isn't. simple really and nothing here to argue about
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933995#msg933995 date=1251461203]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35468.msg933993#msg933993 date=1251461061]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933984#msg933984 date=1251460679]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35468.msg933977#msg933977 date=1251460276]
Hargreaves made 16 league starts in his first season with United.

Not even half their league games.

He made his United debut in a 1-0 defeat to Manchester City, but featured only four times before November due to niggling injuries.
[/quote]

ah selective again. 23 league appearance. more than half their league games.

my point still stands, utd did not buy an injured hargreaves nor a injured rvn.
[/quote]

Hargreaves was notoriously injured before they signed him! It's why they waited another year to make him their player.

Prior to signing for United, RVN tore his cruciate ligaments, an injury some footballers do not return from, again they waited 12 months to make him their player.

You don't half argue some shit, Rage.
[/quote]

both rvn and hargreaves were fit to start the season. aquaman isn't. simple really and nothing here to argue about
[/quote]

But the 12 months prior, when United wanted both players and held out for them because they were 'injured' (and couldn't undergo a medical) clearly don't count?

Fuck off Rage.
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35468.msg933978#msg933978 date=1251460400]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933975#msg933975 date=1251460066]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35468.msg933972#msg933972 date=1251459710]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933824#msg933824 date=1251436722]
it doesn't matter if aquaman is amazing if by the time he gets fit we're playing super catch up. what then we write off another season under rafa and make it 6 seasons without winning the league.

he was bought in to win the league, to date he has failed and he has started this season as badly as he ever has. when was the last time a team won the league after such a bad start? bolton on saturday is huge, if he loses he should be sacked and the rest of this season used to rebuild under a new manager.

as for utd buying hargreaves, he was bought in the summer of 2007, started the preseason, played throughout the season and won the league and champions league that year. it was only in his second season that he was out due to injuries.

rvn wasn't injured when utd bought him nor did he have a history of injuries. he was out for most of 2000-01 season because of one injury to his knee, prior to that he'd been a regular in the psv side playing most league games over the previous 2 seasons, scoring a record number of goals and winning dutch player of the year. utd also didn't buy him until after he had recovered from his knee injury.

but hey why let the truth get in the way of rafa apologists revisionist bullshit.
[/quote]

Actually it will be 20 years of not winning the title but no doubt the other 14 years will be down to him as well.

What most of us love about you is bang on about debate but the only valid point is yours. Therefore anyone who disagrees with you about some of the downright subjective, disingenuous crap you spout about Rafa immediately becomes a "Rafa apologist".

You do realise that you're the extremist here, and you're not exactly in the best company with when you consider that your main ally in the "Benitez is a cunt" rally is Le Chachal. Perhaps if you stuck to a few facts rather than your nasty little agenda, you'd find more tolerance.
[/quote]

extremist? what part of what i said in this post is inaccurate? we were talking about buying injured players and i presented the information to demonstrate that neither rvn nor hargreaves were as ryan and mystic described.
[/quote]

Don't be obtuse! See the wider picture.

Virtually every other post you make is dripping with anti-Benitez sentiment. We get it. You don't want him as manager but quite a large amount of what you post is not based on fact its based on your extremist spun opinion of him.

Like I said before, are you Rashid?
[/quote]

I gotta say I don't get it, I think i may just have to ignore rage's posts from here on.

The simple fact is Rafa has fashioned a team that is good enough to win a title, and on two occasions has reached a points tally that would have been good enough to win the league in other seasons. The only reason he hasn't collected a title is that the premiership is insanely strong at the moment and over the past few years has included four of the five or six strongest teams on the whole continent.

Wanting to get rid of a manager performing like that seems like madness to me, but there you go.

As for Aquilani, and the fact he joined us while injured, well...Rafa believes he is the right player for us. Until I've seen him I can't criticise, but what should rafa have done? Say 'I won't buy him because he won't be fit for six weeks or so'? And buy who else? Someone who is fit, but isn't the right player for us?

If rafa had bought David Villa and he'd been injured for the first few weeks would there be any complaints?

Not liking benitez is one thing - there are some things about the man i don't particularly like, but the team was very strong last year and was many people's favourite to win it this year - how can that have changed after only 3 games?
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933990#msg933990 date=1251460836]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35468.msg933978#msg933978 date=1251460400]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933975#msg933975 date=1251460066]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=35468.msg933972#msg933972 date=1251459710]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg933824#msg933824 date=1251436722]
it doesn't matter if aquaman is amazing if by the time he gets fit we're playing super catch up. what then we write off another season under rafa and make it 6 seasons without winning the league.

he was bought in to win the league, to date he has failed and he has started this season as badly as he ever has. when was the last time a team won the league after such a bad start? bolton on saturday is huge, if he loses he should be sacked and the rest of this season used to rebuild under a new manager.

as for utd buying hargreaves, he was bought in the summer of 2007, started the preseason, played throughout the season and won the league and champions league that year. it was only in his second season that he was out due to injuries.

rvn wasn't injured when utd bought him nor did he have a history of injuries. he was out for most of 2000-01 season because of one injury to his knee, prior to that he'd been a regular in the psv side playing most league games over the previous 2 seasons, scoring a record number of goals and winning dutch player of the year. utd also didn't buy him until after he had recovered from his knee injury.

but hey why let the truth get in the way of rafa apologists revisionist bullshit.
[/quote]

Actually it will be 20 years of not winning the title but no doubt the other 14 years will be down to him as well.

What most of us love about you is bang on about debate but the only valid point is yours. Therefore anyone who disagrees with you about some of the downright subjective, disingenuous crap you spout about Rafa immediately becomes a "Rafa apologist".

You do realise that you're the extremist here, and you're not exactly in the best company with when you consider that your main ally in the "Benitez is a cunt" rally is Le Chachal. Perhaps if you stuck to a few facts rather than your nasty little agenda, you'd find more tolerance.
[/quote]

extremist? what part of what i said in this post is inaccurate? we were talking about buying injured players and i presented the information to demonstrate that neither rvn nor hargreaves were as ryan and mystic described.
[/quote]

Don't be obtuse! See the wider picture.

Virtually every other post you make is dripping with anti-Benitez sentiment. We get it. You don't want him as manager but quite a large amount of what you post is not based on fact its based on your extremist spun opinion of him.

Like I said before, are you Rashid?
[/quote]

i like to think of it as pro liverpool sentiment. who does the buck stop with? rafa's failed mate and if he fucks up again this year how much longer will people like you blindly follow him. he was brought in to win the league.
[/quote]

I don't blindly follow him. I just don't look to blame him for everything that goes wrong. I support the club not Benitez.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=35468.msg933966#msg933966 date=1251459002]
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=35468.msg933915#msg933915 date=1251450115]

and yet Aqualini has never failed to make fewer than 20 starts in a season since he became a regular.

Something that RVN & Hargreaves have managed to do on a few occassions.
[/quote]

That's actually not true.
[/quote]

Acquilani Apperances :-
03/04 - 41
04/05 - 38
05/06 - 34
06/07 - 22
07-08 - 31
08/09 - 20

Hargreaves Appearances :-
01/02 - 47
02/03 - 35
03/04 - 34
04/05 - 38
05/06 - 22
06/07 - 15
07/08 - 34
08/09 - 3

RVN Appearances :-
98/99 – 46
99/00 – 33
00/01 – 12
01/02 – 49
02/03 – 52
03/04 – 44
04/05 – 27
05/06 – 47
06/07 – 47
07/08 – 34
09/09 - 12

Ok, we'll make it appearances instead then.
 
Benitez has been guilty of blaming everyone but himself for the weaknesses in the team.

But I don't see how he could have done this differently; we needed a replacement for Xabi and Aquilani IS a good player.

It's a gamble no worse than Hargreaves and RVN; I'm just hoping it turns out to more similar to the latter player.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=35468.msg934312#msg934312 date=1251524367]
Benitez has been guilty of blaming everyone but himself for the weaknesses in the team.

But I don't see how he could have done this differently; we needed a replacement for Xabi and Aquilani IS a good player.

It's a gamble no worse than Hargreaves and RVN; I'm just hoping it turns out to more similar to the latter player.
[/quote]

we could have got wesley for less who would have been ready to start the season and is until proven otherwise a far superior player than aquaman.

rafa gambled on aquaman and his faith in that waste of space lucas is costing us. if that cunt plays today he'll cost us some more i have no doubt.
 
That's not a bad shout, but it would also depend on whether we could have bought him at the price Inter got him for.

My guess is RM would have massively inflated his price to offset the Xabi transfer.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg934315#msg934315 date=1251526014]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=35468.msg934312#msg934312 date=1251524367]
Benitez has been guilty of blaming everyone but himself for the weaknesses in the team.

But I don't see how he could have done this differently; we needed a replacement for Xabi and Aquilani IS a good player.

It's a gamble no worse than Hargreaves and RVN; I'm just hoping it turns out to more similar to the latter player.
[/quote]

we could have got wesley for less who would have been ready to start the season and is until proven otherwise a far superior player than aquaman.

rafa gambled on aquaman and his faith in that waste of space lucas is costing us. if that cunt plays today he'll cost us some more i have no doubt.
[/quote]

Well according to Mark the owners refused to sanction a player plus cash deal as it meant less money for themselves.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35468.msg934330#msg934330 date=1251532116]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg934315#msg934315 date=1251526014]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=35468.msg934312#msg934312 date=1251524367]
Benitez has been guilty of blaming everyone but himself for the weaknesses in the team.

But I don't see how he could have done this differently; we needed a replacement for Xabi and Aquilani IS a good player.

It's a gamble no worse than Hargreaves and RVN; I'm just hoping it turns out to more similar to the latter player.
[/quote]

we could have got wesley for less who would have been ready to start the season and is until proven otherwise a far superior player than aquaman.

rafa gambled on aquaman and his faith in that waste of space lucas is costing us. if that cunt plays today he'll cost us some more i have no doubt.
[/quote]

Well according to Mark the owners refused to sanction a player plus cash deal as it meant less money for themselves.
[/quote]

i find that hard to believe but hey with them 2 in charge anythings possible. i'm waiting for them to install the 20p toilets at the ground any day now.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg934334#msg934334 date=1251532893]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35468.msg934330#msg934330 date=1251532116]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35468.msg934315#msg934315 date=1251526014]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=35468.msg934312#msg934312 date=1251524367]
Benitez has been guilty of blaming everyone but himself for the weaknesses in the team.

But I don't see how he could have done this differently; we needed a replacement for Xabi and Aquilani IS a good player.

It's a gamble no worse than Hargreaves and RVN; I'm just hoping it turns out to more similar to the latter player.
[/quote]

we could have got wesley for less who would have been ready to start the season and is until proven otherwise a far superior player than aquaman.

rafa gambled on aquaman and his faith in that waste of space lucas is costing us. if that cunt plays today he'll cost us some more i have no doubt.
[/quote]

Well according to Mark the owners refused to sanction a player plus cash deal as it meant less money for themselves.
[/quote]

i find that hard to believe but hey with them 2 in charge anythings possible. i'm waiting for them to install the 20p toilets at the ground any day now.
[/quote]

You find that hard to believe? They've just basically had off with what revenue we've made and we've spent fuck all net. But hey, let's just have it as a given that Rafa fucked up, even though the evidence is there to prove the contrary.

Could you be any more transparent?
 
If Rafa isn't allowed to spend more money, why would he be able to spend it indirectly by way of a player transfer? Why is this hard to believe?
 
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