Pre Match - F*ck You Count Cup - Wolves (H) - Sat 20:00

[StevieM]

Just watched the highlights.

Poor Wolves. They were robbed.

We were so pants it’s unbelievable. They were cutting through our midfield at will and running rings around our high line like it was a pisstake.

Even the unflappable Allison is showing signs of nerves.

Didn’t Klopp say we were all gonna see the real Liverpool after the WC and Dubai break ?

That was the real Liverpool wasn’t it ? Lol.

I can’t do this knee jerk thing anymore.

Alisson had a bad day - that’s not a sign of “nerves”.

This ‘cutting through our midfield “with ease”, was this when we had 87% possession or when Allison made his one save?

Yes we were shit - but I can’t do this anymore - there’s absolutely no perspective left on this site.

We were shit… yes - did we actually lose?

 

[Woland]

Who was most likely to win? Liverpool's strongest eleven or wolves players we've never heard of before? Who feels robbed?

If this was a one off, oh it's only the F.A Cup, fuck it, then yeah it would be knee jerk, but in case you hadn't noticed, we've been fucking shite for ages.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

I can’t do this knee jerk thing anymore.

Alisson had a bad day - that’s not a sign of “nerves”.

This ‘cutting through our midfield “with ease”, was this when we had 87% possession or when Allison made his one save?

Yes we were shit - but I can’t do this anymore - there’s absolutely no perspective left on this site.

We were shit… yes - did we actually lose?

It's ok my friend.

Your day to bitch and have a whinge will come.

Just be patient. It may just be around the corner - the next match.

 

[Squiggles]

Surely it's time now for Klopp to start being more pragmatic with his tactics. We've tried every possible variation to getting the high line 4-3-3 working. We had our strongest eleven against Wolves at Anfield, and we've had to rely on a dodgy decision to stay in the tie and not concede 3 goals.

We had all the WC break to work on it. What's changed? What's improved?

We're playing high risk tactics that rely on either huge amounts of athleticism or technical ability. We have neither. Klopp needs to give up the idea of controlling the game for 75 minutes. We need to be sitting deeper and more compact at times. We need to give Salah, Nunez and Gakpo some space in which to operate. We're absolutely devastating on the counter - maybe the best in league and yet we constantly refuse to set ourselves up in way to exploit that.

It's all been said before, but it's just so irritating reverting back to a plan that isn't working.

 

[keniget]

I can’t do this knee jerk thing anymore.

Alisson had a bad day - that’s not a sign of “nerves”.

This ‘cutting through our midfield “with ease”, was this when we had 87% possession or when Allison made his one save?

Yes we were shit - but I can’t do this anymore - there’s absolutely no perspective left on this site.

We were shit… yes - did we actually lose?

I get what you're trying to do but I think there is a reason to "knee jerk".

You can argue the toss about specific points but it's clear that we are at a low point right now and there isn't really any need to roll out any stats to try and convince anyone otherwise.

For example, I don't know if the generally reliable Alisson was just having a bad day or was feeling panicked or nervous. What I do know is that he, Matip and Konate all made stupid enforced errors that could've / should've led to a goal last night. One did. Coincidence? Maybe.

Everyone was wondering why Kelleher didn't get a game last night. Maybe he' wants to leave? Maybe he is leaving? Etc.

No. Klopp named his full strength side because he wanted and needed a performance and a win.

Unfortunately he got neither.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

First thing i'll do if I'm Klopp is to sack that high defense line immediately.

It just doesn't work anymore because teams have sussed us out. Plus, that high line is effective only when we've got our midfield switched on. Fabs is off-form. Gini is no longer there to 'ghost' between the lines and provide cover when necessary. Too easy to break that high line of ours.

But i suspect Klopp and co has thought of this before too. The problem is how would you then setup your defense and team, if we remove the high line ? We always play and build from the back, so if our defense sit deeper, we lose that extra bit of pace in our game, especially in getting the ball as quickly as possible to our front three. Unless you plan to go route one and ping hollywood passes quickly to our front three, when we counter. I suppose, that may work, cos that would mean we bypass our non-existent midfield. But long-term it won't work, plus that's just not how we play - ugly football.

Alright, if you don't go route one, and you still wanna build from the back, but without the high line, you'd have to change formation. You'd need a holding or defensive midfield, to link midfield and defense. Fabs seem the most likely candidate, but how would you then setup your midfield ?

Option 1

Trent -- Matip/Konate -- VVD/JoeGo -- Robbo/Greek
-------------------------Fabs------------------
------Hendo-----------------------Thiago
Salah----------------Nunez--------------------Cody

Look at this formation. Lack of width. That's why we play with the high line even though it comes with a risk. Because our system is setup so that our FBs can bomb forward and overlap to provide the width. They're essentially WBs really, but opposition have worked out how to nullify that threat by 1) crowding the midfield or 2) place forwards on the shoulders of our high line (esp. Trent's side) and play quick triangular 1-2s to easily bypass Trent.

It wasn't easy before for opposition teams because we had that 'ghost' Gini and an in-form Fabs providing quick cover previously. So now you can understand why Trent's the easy target, because his natural instinct is to always go forward.

I really don't have an answer to this problem because i think we don't have the right players. We're crying out for a top-class midfielder and we ain't got one yet.

PS: My english is all over the place in this post, so pardon me. Maybe someone can rephrase my points a lot better.

 

[Halmeister]

Who was most likely to win? Liverpool's strongest eleven or wolves players we've never heard of before? Who feels robbed?

If this was a one off, oh it's only the F.A Cup, fuck it, then yeah it would be knee jerk, but in case you hadn't noticed, we've been fucking shite for ages.

This. It's not a one off. We've played like that every game this season bar maybe 2 or 3 times. This team is broken.

 

[The Nomad]

It's the stupidest fucking rule ever in a landscape of ever more stupid rules. Salah was offside every other time I've ever seen that happen, and if you go back to basic principles of how offside is designed to work he was off. I understand it's a new rule but I've got no idea why. It makes zero sense.

Yep. I could understand if brought the ball down and tried to play it. That would be a footballing move. But to attempt a header and call it 'playing the ball' is stupid.

 

[tombrown]

It's the stupidest fucking rule ever in a landscape of ever more stupid rules. Salah was offside every other time I've ever seen that happen, and if you go back to basic principles of how offside is designed to work he was off. I understand it's a new rule but I've got no idea why. It makes zero sense.

Problem is they have tried to make a grey area into a black & white one.

1) If Totti had intercepted the ball then tried to pass it back to his keeper and Mo had intercepted it - 100% not offside
2) If Totti had headed the ball deliberately back to the keeper & Mo had intercepted it - 100% not offside
3) In this case Totti (almost definitely) tried to head it back out towards midfield, but made a balls of it and it fell to Salah

In an attempt to take the judgement out of 1 & 2, where a referee has to decide if the player deliberately tries to pass or head it back to the keeper they have had to make 3 be not offside, because they don't trust the judgment of referees and know that different refs would have different judgments.

The root problem is that, while the rules of the game are black and white, the interpretation of what actually happens in a particular incident is, naturally, subjective, and the FA, the media and, very often, the fans don't like that.

 

[Woland]

It's a nonsense because it fundamentally changes the job of a defender from trying to play an attacker offside to knowing an attacker is offside. It's utter bullshit.

 

[The Nomad]

 

[Fabio]

It's a nonsense because it fundamentally changes the job of a defender from trying to play an attacker offside to knowing an attacker is offside. It's utter bullshit.

In my eyes, Toti only tried to head it because Salah was there, thus Salah made him play the ball. For me, thats plainly offside and the fact it isn't is a fucking travesty

 

[jan]

Lol. That looks like Wolves proper robbed

 

[Fabio]

We gave away 2 shit goals and needed shit officiating to save us.

This teams done

 

[jan]

It's the stupidest fucking rule ever in a landscape of ever more stupid rules. Salah was offside every other time I've ever seen that happen, and if you go back to basic principles of how offside is designed to work he was off. I understand it's a new rule but I've got no idea why. It makes zero sense.

Yeah it's about as sensible as that handball rule they tried when introducing VAR - think it was something along the lines of "every arm touch in the box is a penalty".
Obviously, the result was a ridiculous amount of dubious penalties in the beginning of that season and I remember cases of players deliberately trying to pick defenders' arms with the ball. Luckily, they brushed that rule under the rug quite quickly

 

[Woland]

Oh look, Salah was offside after all. No way was that a 'save'.

 

[Woland]

Yeah it's about as sensible as that handball rule they tried when introducing VAR - think it was something along the lines of "every arm touch in the box is a penalty".
Obviously, the result was a ridiculous amount of dubious penalties in the beginning of that season and I remember cases of players deliberately trying to pick defenders' arms with the ball. Luckily, they brushed that rule under the rug quite quickly

To be fair, that stupid rule put us one nil up very early on in a CL final.

 

[Irishanfield]

We gave away 2 shit goals and needed shit officiating to save us.

This teams done

Add to that the only real 2 chances we had we scored from and both came wolves fuck ups rather than us opening them up

 

[The Nomad]

Oh look, Salah was offside after all. No way was that a 'save'.

Doesn't that say the opposite?

I.e. only a save would he be called offside?

Its a stupid rule.

 

[Woland]

Doesn't that say the opposite?

I.e. only a save would he be called offside?

Its a stupid rule.

Oh shit yeah probably. I can now empathise with dickhead referees because that's worded so badly.

Also, it's the other interpretation that seems most fair. Fuck it. Whatever.

 

[dantes]

Oh shit yeah probably. I can now empathise with dickhead referees because that's worded so badly.

Also, it's the other interpretation that seems most fair. Fuck it. Whatever.

Why do you empathise with these vermin? It will pain you now to recall this.

https://www.skysports.com/football/... real time this was,award of the penalty kick.

 

[refugee]

Ooh that looks nice

I have lately developed a taste for dark beers. Last time I was home my mum got in a few - they were Belgian and 14% :O Not exactly what I had in mind - lovely taste, not such a nice morning after

I recommend the Brehon beers if you are in ROI (although they deliver to the UK)

 

[Tinto]

Doesn't that say the opposite?

I.e. only a save would he be called offside?

Its a stupid rule.

I'm not sure why we need that rule. I thought offside only matter for forward passes?

 

[tombrown]

I recommend the Brehon beers if you are in ROI (although they deliver to the UK)

Oooh - free shipping to me too. Might try them out when January is done - Ulster Black looks good to me, even if the name does remind me of the RUC

 

[Buddha]

This angle of the offside is also doing the rounds and captures the moment of the first header (forwards towards Hwang). I suspect this is what the linesman was flagging, though it’s arguable that he should have only considered the second header in an offside decision - which was probably marginally onside.

Either way, it’s a marginal enough call that we’ve been on the wrong side of many times.

 

[refugee]

Oooh - free shipping to me too. Might try them out when January is done - Ulster Black looks good to me, even if the name does remind me of the RUC

They have a lot of good stuff. I recommend the
Shanco Dubh or the Crann Beatha. The Christmas pudding one is a little hit or miss though.

 

[The Nomad]

This angle of the offside is also doing the rounds and captures the moment of the first header (forwards towards Hwang). I suspect this is what the linesman was flagging, though it’s arguable that he should have only considered the second header in an offside decision - which was probably marginally onside.

Either way, it’s a marginal enough call that we’ve been on the wrong side of many times.

Yeah the first header is irrelevant, as the second header is the next phase.

 

[keniget]

I’m surprised you all care enough to debate this.

 

[The Nomad]

I’m surprised you all care enough to debate this.

Better than accepting how shit we are

 

[keniget]

Better than accepting how shit we are

I was referring to the vigorous offside / not offside debate.