If he had the comparable ability and just a bit of pace he'd be Suarez. He doesn't, so he's just Boring James Milner. But I'm pleased to have him.
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If he had the comparable ability and just a bit of pace he'd be Suarez. He doesn't, so he's just Boring James Milner. But I'm pleased to have him.
I still don't know which if any of our players are any good. Origi looks zillions better than I ever expected him to be. But is he or is it a blip or what? Firmino comes in and out of games but overall he seems dead good. But good enough for a title challenge? I don't know.
It's like that Anthony Joshua fight the other night. I can't help being impressed with what I'm seeing, but I don't know if it's all that good.
It's like that Anthony Joshua fight the other night. I can't help being impressed with what I'm seeing, but I don't know if it's all that good.
Milner is club vice-captain, which with Hendo's injury record means he'll often be wearing the armband. Not only is he fully entitled to advise teammates, I'd lay a sizeable sum he was brought in for that express purpose among others - and rightly so because it's a positive necessity with our current squad, which is not overburdened with Carra-style leaders on the pitch.
Been mad busy so haven't had time to post on this yet.
Surprised to see so little praise for Milner. He was ace. I do like him. He's your typical 7/10 guaranteed every week performer that every side needs, & some games he'll be an 8 or a 9.
He'll never be a superstar, but he's arguably our best player because even those with more talent in our squad have nowhere near his level of consistency.
Sturridge is finally feeling comfortable again. I don't buy all the shit about him just being moody, he gets aggravated when his body is quite doing what he wants as fast or well as he knows he can do. He's clearly getting there now, cos he's demanding from other players again & looks sharp. If he remains injury free he's gonna finish this season flying, & Origi, despite his obvious limitations, can be grateful cos he'll be getting a few goals simply by virtue of sturridge tying defenders in knots, making them sit back, & knackering them out.
Surprised to see so little praise for Milner. He was ace. I do like him. He's your typical 7/10 guaranteed every week performer that every side needs, & some games he'll be an 8 or a 9.
He'll never be a superstar, but he's arguably our best player because even those with more talent in our squad have nowhere near his level of consistency.
Sturridge is finally feeling comfortable again. I don't buy all the shit about him just being moody, he gets aggravated when his body is quite doing what he wants as fast or well as he knows he can do. He's clearly getting there now, cos he's demanding from other players again & looks sharp. If he remains injury free he's gonna finish this season flying, & Origi, despite his obvious limitations, can be grateful cos he'll be getting a few goals simply by virtue of sturridge tying defenders in knots, making them sit back, & knackering them out.
I don't know if many have accused the Studge of just being moody, but I do think that's been part of the problem TBF. All players coming back from injury have worries and concerns, but there seems to be some evidence that he takes those to extremes at times.
That said, I agree with the rest of what you say about him. I'd be happier if he disappeared off the radar of that doddering old waster Hodgson, but the problem there is that the Studge himself wouldn't be. We'll just have to keep everything crossed if he keeps getting picked for England.
That said, I agree with the rest of what you say about him. I'd be happier if he disappeared off the radar of that doddering old waster Hodgson, but the problem there is that the Studge himself wouldn't be. We'll just have to keep everything crossed if he keeps getting picked for England.
And they wanted to keep him. They were said to have offered him more than we did.
Let me disagree with you slightly; I don't think Milner has been a "guaranteed 7" this season – if he was, he'd be leading Player of the Season polls by now, given how hit-and-miss everyone else has been. For me, the game against Stoke was his finest display of his LFC career so far, but he hasn't always been that good or confident. I generally like him and want him to do well and it seems like finally he's starting to become comfortable in the role of a senior player at Liverpool. This kind of experience and leadership is exactly what we've been missing after Gerrard and Carra left.
As the weeks go by I think many of us are beginning to believe that Origi could very well be "the real deal".
ROFL !!
KO,KO,KO,KO,KO,KO,KO,KO,KO,KO,KO,KO,KO,KO,KO,KO. 3rd fastest to World Champion in recent times (I disqualify pre-1900 since there were probably only 100 pugilists world-wide at that time) ! Yeah, he's the real deal. Unreal power - most lethal since Tyson ?
With good reason though JJ - look at how long he's been out .... and back and out and back. It must be soul-destroying in the extreme so if he's sold his soul to the devil for an injury-free run I can understand it !
Like most boxers these days, he effectively only punches with one knuckle - no movement of the whole body in a proper arc. Their technique is bloody awful.
But as for getting over-excited, Tony Barrett (steady, Mark, steady!) in The Times today has now suddenly decided that the committee knows what it's doing after all!
There are times when reappraisal becomes necessary, when everything we thought we knew requires reassessment and the absolutes of the past become shaded in grey. For Liverpool’s transfer committee, that time is probably now. Widely regarded as a failure born of misguided strategy, signs are now emerging that its work is beginning to bear fruit. A different picture is developing, one that seemed so unlikely as to verge on the impossible only six months ago.
Players who were in danger of being written off under Brendan Rodgers – most notably Emre Can, Roberto Firmino, Divock Origi and Alberto Moreno – are starting to thrive under Jürgen Klopp. None of this removes the transfer committee’s previous failures, of course: a number of signings, such as Iago Aspas, Luis Alberto and Javier Manquillo did not work out, although that trio are themselves performing well for Celta Vigo, Deportivo La Coruña and Marseilles respectively this season.
But it does put a different perspective on things. The concept of signing young players of promise with a view to them fulfilling their potential at Liverpool no longer seems as flawed as it did. In part, this is due to the passage of time that has allowed experience to be gained, rough edges to be smoothed and development to take place. In some cases, particularly Origi’s, judgment was passed too soon and those who wrote the forward off while he was hardly out of his teens are being made to look fools by his recent progress.
Not that humble pie need be eaten by everyone. All those who watch football on a game-by-game basis without access to the training ground or the inner workings of a football club can ever do is judge players according to what they see on a match day. For most who watched Liverpool earlier this season and in the previous campaign, there were legitimate reasons to question and criticise the wisdom of recruiting Can, Origi, Moreno and Firmino; for different reasons, all four struggled to justify the faith that had been shown in them and although assessments of each of them now seem harsh and premature, they were based entirely on what people were seeing.
Can lacked stamina and seemed unsuited to central midield as a result. Moreno was a defensive liability who had the unfortunate knack of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Firmino was a player without a defined role, neither a No 10, nor a No 9, nor a winger, and struggled to cope with the intensity of the English game. Origi, a willing runner, lacked polish and, more importantly, goals. In their own way, each was falling short of the standards required of a Liverpool player. They looked like poor signings and were written off by some.
So how has this quartet come to be seen as not just an exciting part of Liverpool’s future but as a fundamental feature of their present? To put it simply, Klopp’s arrival has changed everything for them. From having a manager who was not convinced by them, they now have one who wants to build a team around them. The belief that Klopp has shown in each is paying off and although none of the four is close to being considered the finished article, all have made sufficient progress for even their harshest critics to doubt their own judgments.
None of these individual improvements should be taking as a damnation of Rodgers. Throughout his reign as Liverpool manager and prior to his appointment, the Northern Irishman said he was not comfortable with players being recruited that had not been identified by himself. Having vetoed a director of football, Rodgers was presented with a committee instead and the tension caused by the subsequent division of powers was evident throughout his tenure. Whether the system is right or wrong remains open to debate but unless the manager at the heart of it believes it is workable it will inevitably fail.
The advantage of Klopp is multi-faceted. Firstly, he has previously worked within a model in which he was not the only significant influence on transfers. Secondly, he has shown, at both Borussia Dortmund and Mainz, that one of his best attributes is working with base metal and turning it into gold. Liverpool’s system, therefore, suits him in a way that it could never have suited Rodgers. Another crucial element is that Klopp is free of the political ramifications caused by the way Liverpool signed the players who are now shining.
There is no resentment on his part that they were brought in, no sense that they should have signed others or that his own judgement had not been backed. The baggage that Rodgers dragged around him, which affected his decision-making and his belief in the players at his disposal, does not apply to his successor in any way. As a clean skin, Klopp has the benefit of working with players without responsibility for them being at Liverpool and he is making the most of that.
The benefits to Can and Origi can be seen primarily in their improved fitness. While the former has lost weight and improved his stamina, the latter has added weight (at least five kilogrammes, according to Klopp) and improved his power. Changes to their individual training programmes are paying off and both are becoming an increasingly prominent presence in the Liverpool team. Firmino, a player who Rodgers did not want, has been repeatedly told by Klopp that he is capable of showing the form that made him an admirer of the Brazilian while both were in the Bundesliga and such confidence is being repaid. Moreno, though still prone to defensive lapses, is now established as Liverpool’s first-choice left back and the kind of energetic player that Klopp loves having benefited from ongoing work on his positional play on the training ground. For all four, improvement is, if not constant, then certainly marked.
For the transfer committee, they now have a manager who is making sense of their work. A strategy which previously seemed doomed to fail now has enough success stories to prompt its critics to pause for thought. When Liverpool face Borussia Dortmund on Thursday night, several of the committee’s recruits will have big roles to play. Origi, Can and Moreno will almost certainly start and so too will Philippe Coutinho and Mamadou Sakho, while Firmino and Daniel Sturridge are playing well enough to feel aggrieved if they only make the bench. Should Liverpool make the Europa League semi-final at the expense of one of the continent’s strongest teams, Klopp will rightly be hailed but perhaps the much-maligned committee should be given some credit too. If they are going to be criticised for the signings that did not work out, it is right and proper that they are praised for the ones they have got right.
That article by Barrett could also be read as: "some of the players brought in under Rodgers are not as bad as they looked at the start, but there's nothing to suggest they were the best use of the available transfer monies either"
My only comments are to state a slightly different point of view to some/most of those above.
Mignolet 7
Clyne 8 Excellent up and down the pitch and created a valuable outlet on the right that we otherwise didn't possess.
Skrtel 6.5. Everyone praising him but it was a typical Skrtel mind-less foul that led to the goal. And a couple of clearlances that went higher than they went forward.
Toure 6
Moreno 7
Stewart 7 Started off a little nervously but soon settled down and it was due to his, and Allen's, impressive work that we dominated central midfield even against the equally impressive Imbula.
Allen 8.5 MoM Simply ran the midfield with his energy. Defensively very sound and the instigator of much of our forward play. I fail to see why so many here aren't giving him his due. Klopp's comment summed it up for me: He was brilliant, there is no other word.
Milner 7 Agree with much of what has been said but no-one has mentioned the half a dozen times he lost possession on the RW either by being overly ambitious (trying to give a defender a 3 yard start on a kick-n-run) or wayward in his passing.
Ojo 7 Pity it was only 45 mins but obviously it was the right decision by Klopp.
Firmino 6
Sturridge 8 This was a near perfect outing for him at this stage of his come-back. Excellent work on and off the ball (he's much better at this when permitted to drop into his preferred deeper postions). Pity his snap-shot from outside the box didn't find the net.
SUBS:
Origi 8 - Too many MoMs given for a player that fluked a goal and only played 45 mins. Great though that 45 mins was.
Lallana n/a
Lucas n/a
Klopp 9 Pleased he started Ojo & Stewart (which was my stated wish in the pre-match thread). Perfect set of substitutions meaning no excuses of tiredness for any of our players for Thursday. Those in need of a run-out received it.
Mignolet 7
Clyne 8 Excellent up and down the pitch and created a valuable outlet on the right that we otherwise didn't possess.
Skrtel 6.5. Everyone praising him but it was a typical Skrtel mind-less foul that led to the goal. And a couple of clearlances that went higher than they went forward.
Toure 6
Moreno 7
Stewart 7 Started off a little nervously but soon settled down and it was due to his, and Allen's, impressive work that we dominated central midfield even against the equally impressive Imbula.
Allen 8.5 MoM Simply ran the midfield with his energy. Defensively very sound and the instigator of much of our forward play. I fail to see why so many here aren't giving him his due. Klopp's comment summed it up for me: He was brilliant, there is no other word.
Milner 7 Agree with much of what has been said but no-one has mentioned the half a dozen times he lost possession on the RW either by being overly ambitious (trying to give a defender a 3 yard start on a kick-n-run) or wayward in his passing.
Ojo 7 Pity it was only 45 mins but obviously it was the right decision by Klopp.
Firmino 6
Sturridge 8 This was a near perfect outing for him at this stage of his come-back. Excellent work on and off the ball (he's much better at this when permitted to drop into his preferred deeper postions). Pity his snap-shot from outside the box didn't find the net.
SUBS:
Origi 8 - Too many MoMs given for a player that fluked a goal and only played 45 mins. Great though that 45 mins was.
Lallana n/a
Lucas n/a
Klopp 9 Pleased he started Ojo & Stewart (which was my stated wish in the pre-match thread). Perfect set of substitutions meaning no excuses of tiredness for any of our players for Thursday. Those in need of a run-out received it.
Eh...what?
Is he basically saying that Klopp has improved certain players and fits Liverpool but that it doesn't mean that Rodgers is a poor manager?
And the reason for that is "just because".
Bear in mind he is being asked to play here there and everywhere, sometimes in the same game, great utility player
Obviously
Barrett Home Bases.
Aldo sort of compared him to John Barnes in one of his Echo columns. Yipes.
I must be the only one that was disappointed with Ojo then.
Apart from the assist for the goal, and I understand that is a significant apart, he seemed to lack confidence and was unsure off himself.
He often didn't seem to know whether to pass or take on his man and even when he did try to round an opponent he usually topped it off by going to ground way too easily.
As I said though it was a super assist and I won't be writing him off after forty minutes of mediocre football.
Apart from the assist for the goal, and I understand that is a significant apart, he seemed to lack confidence and was unsure off himself.
He often didn't seem to know whether to pass or take on his man and even when he did try to round an opponent he usually topped it off by going to ground way too easily.
As I said though it was a super assist and I won't be writing him off after forty minutes of mediocre football.
As he said himself, he has a lot to learn. But he's very fast, has all the tricks, good technique and, when he's confident, a fine eye for goal. Give him the odd half, or twenty minutes here or there, and let him grow a bit and settle without too much pressure, and with luck - and you always need it - he can be fantastic.
kiss of mediocrity right there.Ouch.
Ojo was great for the goal but I've always felt he'd be better suited to CM where he could really dominate with his pace and power. I'm not sure, in general, he has the tricks to be a wide forward.
Wonder if he'll go out on loan again next season.
With Markovic coming back and another wide man/winger coming in, things really aren't looking too bright for Ibe.
I just came off the Ibe thread and saw this referencing to Ibe. I know the point still stands but are we talking about Ojo or Ibe here?
I don't think Markovic has been pulling up any trees in Turkey either so I would imagine it's a free for all for that backup winger spot.
I've just go back from a last minute week in Turkey. The staff team were mostly Fenerbahce fans at the hotel and they all (100%!) raved about Markovic being the quickest / most skilful player they've had at the club in aeons.
Their main complaint was that he's had a series of niggling injuries any time he's put an impressive run of games together.
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