Post match thoughts - FA Cup

[peterhague]

Personally I think the state of the academy is pretty good - we're certainly producing more decent prospects now than at any time since Gerrard came through over 15 years ago.

I agree we don't seem to compete well for local youngsters, but turning that round was always going to be a long term project. What annoys me is that the very decent medium term solution of becoming the place for the best national talents to sign was apparently abandoned when Comolli was sacked. Under him and McParland we signed Sterling, Ibe, Ojo, and Sinclair in the space of about 18 months, for about £8m total. That's a brilliant return for what looks like will be 2 good solid squad players and one first teamer.

We should've used that as a platform to become the default choice of that calibre of player. It suited us: we had the money to attract them and the ability to genuinely offer talented kids a route into the first team.

 

[manwithnoname]

The whole academy/reserve set up needs a complete overhaul. It's become a haven for lazy, aimless players like Stewart (he's 22, for god's sake, he doesn't look like he's been in a gym for a year and he's just taking the piss), the odd player of promise who's been led astray by wild promises from agents (Sinclair) and far, far, too many mediocre (not average, but mediocre) kids who are just making up the numbers. Yes, we've got a few very promising kids like Wilson, Kent, Ojo, Brannagan and Rossiter, but only their own hunger for success pushes them on, nothing else, which is why they're all behind schedule in terms of where their talent should take them.

One problem is the club's attitude to the distribution of authority. It went from being Heighway's personal kingdom (which was fine for a long time, but in the end, much as I like Stevie, dealing with him from Melwood was like trying to deal with Kurtz in Heart of Darkness) to being dominated by Rodgers (who stamped his signature on every facet and level of the set up, leaving it as his very dubious legacy). So Klopp and Inglethorpe need to re-think the dynamic very carefully.

The coaches need improving. Take Michael Beale (under 21s) and Neil Critchley (under 18s). They're Rodgers' yes men: they preach a philosophy that results don't matter, league position doesn't matter, only things like technique, team shape and style matters. So they've created a context in which hardly anyone gives a toss about anything. There's no embarrassment, no shame, no anger, no frustration when things go badly. If a player is self-motivated, fine, but if they need a push, they don't get it. What the hell is the point?

Local scouting needs huge improvement. It was improved briefly when Kenny came back because he knew how to do it. As soon as he left all the old failings returned. It's a really competitive catchment area and we are crap at covering it.

Foreign scouting also needs improving. If you're going to bring in a foreign kid, help him settle, teach him English, invest several years in his general development, you really need to feel he's an exceptional talent. Of course it's difficult and risk-laden, but we've way too many foreign kids who were merely solid when they came and are now barely up to second division standards. And you can't even recoup some of the investment in them by selling them to Spanish or other European clubs because we've rendered them unsuited to most playing styles.

And on top of all that, there's the under 21s/under 18s leagues, which are useless. Other clubs have the same problem, of course, but more initiative needs to be shown in bypassing it whenever possible, seeking out friendlies with more experienced teams, staging mini tournaments, and generally finding much greater competition to sharpen up these kids.

And if you're going to loan players, loan them to managers who are genuinely keen to use them. And take control of the process by making it serve our needs at least as much as theirs. The current loan policy is barely coherent and has damaged more futures than helped them.

Inglethorpe is a good guy who deserves a lot of faith and trust, but he and Klopp really need to get together and re-draw the blueprint.

Wild applause

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Just watched the game now ...

Bogdan - Very disappointed. That's two really poor mistakes in two games -

Randall - I think he's going to be a very dependable back up player ... Solid tackler, tries his best when attacking, poor man's Flanno.
Ilori - I think he played rather well considering everything.
Enrique - Considering he's not played a competitive in 15 years and was a new position, I thought he did well
Smith - Well done, improving every game. Well taken goal too.

Stewart - comfortable debut. Seems smart on the ball, breaks up play well, decent passer. Looks like a decent prospect.
Brannagan - I thought he'd try to impose himself more ... but a decent performance.

Kent - Looks like he was trying too hard to impress, but some really nice touches on the ball.
Might Tex - Looks a class above the kids here. Great touch, uses his body really well and smart use of the ball. I really really like this kid, but if he doesn't get into a few games by season's end, it seems his future won't be here.
Sinclair - great effort, well taken goal - looks like he's trying to have a future here.

Benteke - Very disappointing ... he needs to spend the next few weeks watching videos of Fowler, Rush and Aldo and learning how a #9 plays. Far too many times, he watches balls crossed into the box ... Ahhh dude, that's your job.

Subs - Nice cameos from Pedro, Ojo and Maguire ...

Overall, fun game to watch. Terrible pitch, but the team played well and I think some of these kids can help the senior squad through this injury hell.

 

[ctlovesred]

Why not close down the whole youth setup, acknowledge that the ROI is lousy, and reinvest all the money and resources into the first team and reserves. Seems like we keep it going to develop players not good enough for us and send them somewhere else, hope to make some cash, and the repeat

 

[cloggypop]

Why not close down the whole youth setup, acknowledge that the ROI is lousy, and reinvest all the money and resources into the first team and reserves. Seems like we keep it going to develop players not good enough for us and send them somewhere else, hope to make some cash, and the repeat

What's wrong with Ireland?

 

[Red Mullet]

Why not close down the whole youth setup, acknowledge that the ROI is lousy, and reinvest all the money and resources into the first team and reserves. Seems like we keep it going to develop players not good enough for us and send them somewhere else, hope to make some cash, and the repeat

You want to get shot of ROI as well? Jeez, are they allowed to defend themselves?

 

[6TimesaRed]

Replay of Bogdan for the second goal

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

Some highlights of the youngsters vs Exeter. Still yet to find one on Ilori and Smith.

Teixeira vs Exeter:


Kent vs Exeter:


Ojo vs Exeter:


Brannagan vs Exeter:

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

The cross at the 2:30 mark in Kent's clip was just begging for Benteke to slide in and tap in if he'd made the run the moment Kent made his move. Sweet ball by Brannagan to feed Kent's excellent run.

 

[jexykrodic]

Some of the posts on here beggar belief. You're a young lad, you get the call hours before the kick off, meet a bunch of stranger teammates, some you've seen around the place but have little or no knowledge of, you play experienced blokes on a sticky pitch, you dig out a 2-2 after going down twice with the whole world other than Liverpool supporters hoping you get turned over and what do you get: we were lucky, so-and-so should never do this, he'll never be that etc etc
Harsh critics you lot. I thought that the newbies did well enough given the circumstances, certainly enough for a brief thank you and see you at training.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Some of the posts on here beggar belief. You're a young lad, you get the call hours before the kick off, meet a bunch of stranger teammates, some you've seen around the place but have little or no knowledge of, you play experienced blokes on a sticky pitch, you dig out a 2-2 after going down twice with the whole world other than Liverpool supporters hoping you get turned over and what do you get: we were lucky, so-and-so should never do this, he'll never be that etc etc
Harsh critics you lot. I thought that the newbies did well enough given the circumstances, certainly enough for a brief thank you and see you at training.

Yup, I thought there was a lot of encouraging signs ...

 

[HC]

Ojo looks like an absolute beast. He was playing against tired legs which helps but he's a gazillion times more direct than anyone else i've seen play wide this season.

Kent looks handy and Smith too, although I'll be behind Mr Danny Murphy in the Brad Smith fanzone as he spent 90 mibutes audibly fapping him off on Friday night.

I thought playing benteke in that side was a pissant move to be honest, what did klopp expect to happen, he's not had the best of time with the ruddy first team so throw our super expensive, under pressure forward onto a half cut pitch with a bunch of youths who had never played together before.

 

[mark1975]

Following the 2-2 draw which earned an FA Cup replay - and probably another run-out for the young guns, this time at Anfield, Lucas said: “I think there are a few standouts to be honest. Probably the ones that have been playing more and playing really well.

“Joao Teixeira, he had a very good game against Bournemouth and Exeter; Cameron Brannagan, I think he’s a very good footballer, he’s not afraid to tackle and technically he’s very good; both full-backs, Brad Smith and Connor Randall, they have been very good.

“All of them have been training here and getting their chances and the future is very bright for them.”

 

[Kay Age El]

From what little I have seen I really like the look of that Smith lad.

 

[mark1975]

From what little I have seen I really like the look of that Smith lad.

Me too mate, I think him and Texeira are the pick of the bunch, but the latter isn't really a spring chicken anymore, he has to do it this season.

 

[manwithnoname]

Me too mate, I think him and Texeira are the pick of the bunch, but the latter isn't really a spring chicken anymore, he has to do it this season.

That's what I find most worrying and also strange. Most of those players are like 20-22. How come they're still being discussed - correctly - as untested? How come there's such a big gap between where they are, and where they should be if they're good enough - i.e. in the first team?

 

[mark1975]

That's what I find most worrying and also strange. Most of those players are like 20-22. How come they're still being discussed - correctly - as untested? How come there's such a big gap between where they are, and where they should be if they're good enough - i.e. in the first team?

Well this is it, we reduced the age that players step up to Melwood and the reserves during Rafa's reign, so they now step up around 16-17, which means by and large that many of them are languishing as trainees for anywhere between 3-5 years (in Tex's case, nearly 6). Is it any wonder many of them fall by the wayside? It seems to be yet another badly structured idea.

 

[manwithnoname]

Well this is it, we reduced the age that players step up to Melwood and the reserves during Rafa's reign, so they now step up around 16-17, which means by and large that many of them are languishing as trainees for anywhere between 3-5 years (in Tex's case, nearly 6). Is it any wonder many of them fall by the wayside? It seems to be yet another badly structured idea.

Right, well that explains it. Dear oh dear, not good at all.

 

[mark1975]

Right, well that explains it. Dear oh dear, not good at all.

The earlier they play around better players, the more it probably encourages their development, I think that's better than them stepping up at 18-19, but there has to be a longterm aim, other than them either waiting for years for a chance, or them going out on loan to, in many cases, sit on someone elses bench.

 

[Windom Earle]

Well this is it, we reduced the age that players step up to Melwood and the reserves during Rafa's reign, so they now step up around 16-17, which means by and large that many of them are languishing as trainees for anywhere between 3-5 years (in Tex's case, nearly 6). Is it any wonder many of them fall by the wayside? It seems to be yet another badly structured idea.

Texeira only signed for Liverpool in 2012. He also suffered a leg break last April that kept him out for a while. I seem to remember that he also had an injury (back?) that kept him out for a while when he first signed, I could be wrong there though.

Not disagreeing that the structure needs to change though.

 

[doctor_mac]

Texeira only signed for Liverpool in 2012. He also suffered a leg break last April that kept him out for a while. I seem to remember that he also had an injury (back?) that kept him out for a while when he first signed, I could be wrong there though.

Not disagreeing that the structure needs to change though.

Right on all counts Windom.

 

[mark1975]

Yeah sorry, it was getting confused thinking Rafa brought him in. Bang on Windom.

 

[BoysPen]

Me too mate, I think him and Texeira are the pick of the bunch, but the latter isn't really a spring chicken anymore, he has to do it this season.

All of which made Brodge's decision to omit him from the Europa League squad the more baffling

 

[doctor_mac]

All of which made Brodge's decision to omit him from the Europa League squad the more baffling

True.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

All of which made Brodge's decision to omit him from the Europa League squad the more baffling

I think it's been discussed here before that he was a victim of circumstances. I think Modo explained it. He couldn't qualify as a club-trained player in List A because he joined after he turned 18. He couldn't qualify as a List B player because he was born before Jan 1, 1994.

This ended up being our List A squad with 17 unrestricted players, and 4 classified as association-trained. None of these guys could be moved into the club-trained slot to free up a space, and if you look at the list, it's understandable though unfortunate why he missed out. Maybe we could've taken a risk by dropping the 4th / 5th CB (Toure) for him but that that's about it.

Full squad: Mignolet, Bogdan, Clyne, Gomez, Toure, Lovren, Moreno, Sakho, Skrtel, Lucas, Henderson, Milner, Can, Allen, Coutinho, Lallana, Firmino, Origi, Ings, Sturridge, Benteke