Planning for the summer

[Hansern]

So, the media outlets are running with some stories about how Klopp will be backed with more money this summer then any of the previous managers we've had under FSG. Same day as our accounts are out and they are a decent reading aswell.

Quality wide player, goalkeeper, left back etc. The squad overhawl could see us sign 6-7 players.
Not ideal but we all know Klopp has to sell the players the that arent good enough.
Joyce links us with Zielinski, Gotze, Childwell and a goalkeeper that will challenge Ming.

100-150 mill including sales should definetly be enough to make this squad competitive.

Which position would you like Klopp to focus on? Who would you sign?

 

[Hansern]

Fiorentina are rumoured to have agreed a deal (pre contract) with Joao Teixeira

 

[Oncy]

A goalkeeper that could challenge Ming?!

Gordon Banks could.

 

[Hansern]

Ha! Shouldnt be hard to challenge him. Its more that we could be after a goalkeeper that could be our new starting nr 1. If that happens we'll all be very happy.

 

[ILD]

I was about to jump all over that 'challenge Ming' line too. Well in Oncy. If the keeper had two arms he's capable of challenging Mingolet.

 

[Oncy]

I was about to jump all over that 'challenge Ming' line too. Well in Oncy. If the keeper had two arms he's capable of challenging Mingolet.

TWO!?

 

[Hansern]

John Achterberg would challenge him at this point.

 

[ILD]

TWO!?

Yeah so he can at least tie his own laces.

 

[Squiggles]

I was about to jump all over that 'challenge Ming' line too. Well in Oncy. If the keeper had two arms he's capable of challenging Mingolet.

That's true, but given we handed the useless twat a 5 year contract recently, there's no other way to phrase it which doesn't sound monumentally stupid.

 

[Markeh]

You know how Tottenham are doing well at the moment, how many of those players did their current manager sign? Is the current success just down to targeting a certain type of player and following through with that, and now Pochettino is in the right place at the right time?

We laughed at them when they spent all the Bale cash on too many players but with a bit of patience could AVB have done well with their current group? I just hope that if we do find it necessary to have a big turnover of players in the squad we buy the right players and give Klopp time to get somewhere with them.

That many at once virtually guarantees an unsuccessful season but hopefully it counts for something.

 

[Rafiagra]

That's true, but given we handed the useless twat a 5 year contract recently, there's no other way to phrase it which doesn't sound monumentally stupid.

On the other, if we do now go out and sign a top first-choice keeper, we are guaranteed to have Mignolet as backup, which isn't the worst option in the world.

 

[Squiggles]

On the other, if we do now go out and sign a top first-choice keeper, we are guaranteed to have Mignolet as backup, which isn't the worst option in the world.

That won't happen. He'll want to leave as soon as he realises he's finished here. Someone will buy him if he's cheap enough.

 

[Red Bird]

So, the media outlets are running with some stories about how Klopp will be backed with more money this summer then any of the previous managers we've had under FSG. Same day as our accounts are out and they are a decent reading aswell.

Quality wide player, goalkeeper, left back etc. The squad overhawl could see us sign 6-7 players.
Not ideal but we all know Klopp has to sell the players the that arent good enough.
Joyce links us with Zielinski, Gotze, Childwell and a goalkeeper that will challenge Ming.

100-150 mill including sales should definetly be enough to make this squad competitive.

Which position would you like Klopp to focus on? Who would you sign?

Sounds silly to me. Why announce that you have this so-called war-chest? Unless you are Ian Ayre, I suppose.

 

[Modo]

I hope we go for experience rather than youth. I'm not gonna bother naming players cause we probably won't sign them.

 

[redhorizon2]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/liverpool-fc-transfers-goalkeepers-left-10966745

 

[gkmacca]

I was about to jump all over that 'challenge Ming' line too. Well in Oncy. If the keeper had two arms he's capable of challenging Mingolet.

Someone hack an arm off Bogdan, there's a dear.

 

[jan]

A goalkeeper that could challenge Ming?!

Gordon Banks could.

Brad fucking Jones did

 

[Skullflower]

slanning for the pummer

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

I think the idea that Spurs are reaping the fruits of showing patience for the group of guys they bought with the Bale money is a popular but incorrect notion.

Spurs bought these guys in the summer they sold Bale: Soldado, Lamela, Paulinho, Eriksen, Capoue, Chiriches, Chadli. Out of this lot, only Lamela, Chadli and Eriksen are still at the club. Chadli took a season to bed in, was solid in his second season but has been hampered a bit this season by an ankle injury. Eriksen hit the ground running on arrival. The only guy they've actually had to show more patience for was Lamela, and even then he was starting to improve last season (his second).

The one season waiting time (in Chadli's case) isn't unusual - that's about the same as us looking at the likes of Firmino and thinking there's a player in there and we should be able to get more out of him next season. Henderson is probably the equivalent of Lamela - took him about a season and a half to two seasons to start finding his feet at his new club.

So there's actually nothing unusual with what Spurs have done (or I reckon, most other clubs), but the media likes a romantic patience turned gold story.

As for wholesale changes, we've done it before and it actually worked out pretty well. In Houllier's first full season, we basically rebuilt the spine in one fell swoop, bringing in Westerveld, Hyypia, Henchoz, Didi and Camara, banked on youngsters like Carra, Matteo, Owen and Gerrard plus a few holdovers, and then added Heskey later in the season (no transfer windows then) to complete the team that season. The new guys hit the ground running, and though we ended up with far fewer goals scored than in the previous season (Fowler was lost for a lot of the season), we also shaved 19 goals from our goals allowed column, added 13 points to the season tally and improved from 7th to 4th.

I wouldn't be too sad if we did pretty much the same in the summer - the key thing is targeting proper, quality players. Shit or ill-fitting players with patience will still be shit or ill-fitting, though I suppose this is where this thread takes a turn and we can discuss Lucas and his shit to silver transformation. 😉

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

At this point, I'd also suggest going back to look at the scale and effects of the changes Klopp and Zorc made to the Dortmund side when he took over:

The changes:
-- http://sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/squad-next-season.79255/#post-1395894

The effects:
-- http://sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/squad-next-season.79255/page-2#post-1396204

 

[dmishra]

So, the media outlets are running with some stories about how Klopp will be backed with more money this summer then any of the previous managers we've had under FSG. Same day as our accounts are out and they are a decent reading aswell.

Quality wide player, goalkeeper, left back etc. The squad overhawl could see us sign 6-7 players.
Not ideal but we all know Klopp has to sell the players the that arent good enough.
Joyce links us with Zielinski, Gotze, Childwell and a goalkeeper that will challenge Ming.

100-150 mill including sales should definetly be enough to make this squad competitive.

Which position would you like Klopp to focus on? Who would you sign?

A squad overhaul is a bad idea, as it'll mean another 2 years of transition.

We've signed Matip and Grujic. I hope we sign just three more players - a top GK, a top CM and a top striker.

If we have 80 million to spend, spend it on those three players alone.

Gk - Butland, Horn, Ter Stegen or whoever the best young keeper in Europe is.
CM - Gundogan or Xhaka
ST - Icardi or Lacazette

I don't want us to sign Gotze, and I don't want us to sign more 'potential' like Zielinksi or Childwell either.

 

[JohnnyRocket]

It's quite simple. We need a proper spine again. Once that is done we can look at other positions. We can't fall into the same trap of trying to cover too much and ending up with more average players. It's one thing united were always good at doing under Ferguson. Go out and buy quality for one or two key positions, and make do with kids or squad players for the other positions that need filling but could wait.

So our first priorities should be:

• Goalkeeper
• Striker that can stay fit, fits the system and can get 20 a season
• Defensive midfielder that can hold his own in a 2 man midfield. (Preferably a wise old head rather than a 21/22 year old)

With what's left we can look at

• Left back that can defend
• Winger

That's 5 positions. I'm still a bit on the fence with regards to centre back. Probably because I have no idea how good Matip will be. Surely with a decent keeper, left back and DM, our centre backs will look a lot better?

Bring back Markovic. Make Smith and Stewart more involved in the first team squad.

 

[JohnnyRocket]

I'm not too sure why a number of new player and decent sized overhaul of the squad results in 2 years of transition? These players train together every day, and if you can get them in early enough to get a full pre-season in and the right coaching I don't think its as big a deal as what people think.

As someone else mentioned, look at us the year Houllier bought his first batch of players. Look at the quality and cohesion of Germany at the world cup, with just a few weeks training together. Look at Spain in 2010. They played like they'd played together for years. When Mourinho took over at Chelsea in 2004 he brought in Carvalho, Tiago, Drogba, Cech, Robben, Ferreira. All first team players. And they were unstoppable that season from the first game. I remember something like 7 clean sheets in a row?

The key is getting the system right in your mind (which I don't doubt Klopp already has) and buying for the system. This is something we've been pathetic at since the Benitez days.

 

[Mors]

At this point, I'd also suggest going back to look at the scale and effects of the changes Klopp and Zorc made to the Dortmund side when he took over:

The changes:
-- http://sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/squad-next-season.79255/#post-1395894

The effects:
-- http://sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/squad-next-season.79255/page-2#post-1396204

@hamstrung_pigeon I like your optimism, but based on what you've said there, in Klopp's first transfer window he brought in:

Owomoyela (26), **Young-Pyo (18), Schmelzer (12)
**Subotic (33), **Santana (23), Şahin (25),
**Hajnal (30), **Boateng (10), **Zidan

I'm not sure if those transfers would be classed as a success? I know he had a tiny budget whilst at Dortmund, but it doesn't look like he's immune from buying quite a lot of junk looking at their transfers whilst he was there.

 

[manwithnoname]

I'm not too sure why a number of new player and decent sized overhaul of the squad results in 2 years of transition? These players train together every day, and if you can get them in early enough to get a full pre-season in and the right coaching I don't think its as big a deal as what people think.

As someone else mentioned, look at us the year Houllier bought his first batch of players. Look at the quality and cohesion of Germany at the world cup, with just a few weeks training together. Look at Spain in 2010. They played like they'd played together for years. When Mourinho took over at Chelsea in 2004 he brought in Carvalho, Tiago, Drogba, Cech, Robben, Ferreira. All first team players. And they were unstoppable that season from the first game. I remember something like 7 clean sheets in a row?

The key is getting the system right in your mind (which I don't doubt Klopp already has) and buying for the system. This is something we've been pathetic at since the Benitez days.

That's fine, but he had a far better squad to start with

 

[Mystic]

@hamstrung_pigeon I like your optimism, but based on what you've said there, in Klopp's first transfer window he brought in:

Owomoyela (26), **Young-Pyo (18), Schmelzer (12)
**Subotic (33), **Santana (23), Şahin (25),
**Hajnal (30), **Boateng (10), **Zidan

I'm not sure if those transfers would be classed as a success? I know he had a tiny budget whilst at Dortmund, but it doesn't look like he's immune from buying quite a lot of junk looking at their transfers whilst he was there.

Not sure if they'd be classed as a success?! Schmelzer, Subotic and Şahin went on to be absolutely massive parts of his championship winning team, they were very much the definition of a success.

 

[Judge Jules]

TWO!?

Guy's taking a shower when his little son walks in and asks: "What are those for?"

"FOUR??!!"

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

@hamstrung_pigeon I like your optimism, but based on what you've said there, in Klopp's first transfer window he brought in:

Owomoyela (26), **Young-Pyo (18), Schmelzer (12)
**Subotic (33), **Santana (23), Şahin (25),
**Hajnal (30), **Boateng (10), **Zidan

I'm not sure if those transfers would be classed as a success? I know he had a tiny budget whilst at Dortmund, but it doesn't look like he's immune from buying quite a lot of junk looking at their transfers whilst he was there.

Well, it's got nothing to do with optimism - I was simply stating the results of my research, i.e. that Klopp and Zorc went deep and wide in bringing about personnel changes in the first couple of seasons. I brought it up here again in response to reservations about how much change we could take in the team.

The first season at Dortmund was about transitioning, and given their budget, it'd be very unreasonable to expect them to hit the right notes on every purchase or promotion from the youth ranks (Boateng was a loan by the way, while Schmelzer and Sahin were promotions).

Some of those could perhaps have been brought in as stop-gap measures after prioritizing some of the more urgently needed purchases, for example. I don't know for sure, because I didn't follow Dortmund, but it wouldn't surprise me if that were the case.

Also, I think you need to look at 09/10.

 

[Mors]

Not sure if they'd be classed as a success?! Schmelzer, Subotic and Şahin went on to be absolutely massive parts of his championship winning team, they were very much the definition of a success.

Granted I don't watch too much German football, but my impression was that Subotic was good not great (maybe about Skrtel's level?), Sahin was bang average for us and Madrid, and I don't really remember too much about Schmelzer from the times I've seen him play (maybe that's a good thing for a FB?).
I'm just erring on the side of caution that he's going to ship out all our shit, and replace them with a load of golden eggs. I think we should be prepared for some disasters too, but hopefully a couple of stars mixed in there.

 

[Judge Jules]

That's fine, but he had a far better squad to start with

Not to dispute that as I don't know enough about their starting squad there, but both he and Buvac are on record as saying the opposite.

Mind you, they may quite well have changed their minds by now.