I've flown with the two main Greek airlines, Aegean and Olympic, and they call it Skopje if you're flying over it.
Pele's a nutter
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I've flown with the two main Greek airlines, Aegean and Olympic, and they call it Skopje if you're flying over it.
Dicks.
They still call Istanbul Constantinople too.
I've flown over Rhodesia and the Belgian Congo.
It's posts like that which are tedious. If the debate doesn't interest you, don't take part in it. This is a forum, not a research lab.
In the same way Modo and the like get constant shit for making "anti-Kenny" threads / comments?
No, I'll post what I like actually, thanks anyway.
lol@barnes
Which is as it should be, but if you're going to call the same thing from others "tedious" expect your own medicine back.
My own medicine?
I don't care if you create a thousand threads like this and post in 'em all day.
I'm just saying, as is my right, that I find these debates tedious because they always end up in the same place - nowhere. And yeah, of course I engage in them from time to time as well. Meh.
If you object to me saying that I find it a little tedious and deliver a "right back atcha" then again, go for it. S'all good.
I'm probably quiffing rather badly cause I haven't gone on to read beyond this page but there is no way you can compare stats of Best and Messi mate; just nonsense. There's a reason why there's more goals these days; the ball is utterly unrecognizable. You give Best, Souness etc the ball that Messi and Ronaldo play with and they'll burst more nets than you've ever seen.
Also, not sure I'm as old as Jules but Pele copped physical abuse that would see players red carded and suspended these days; he copped it routinely every game and, what's more, he knew how to hand it out as well. I remember Charlton would cop an absolute kicking from opponents and his revenge would be to withold his hand at the end of the match. Not for Pele - when he got thumped he said nothing but put his elbow through their ribs or in their throat a few minutes later. No way would Messi handle what was handed out at that time; imagine him dealing with what Souness put up with against Roma? No chance and, while Jules may not agree with it, that was pretty close to standard fare for Pele. He was too good to play against fairly - opponents had no choice but to do that to him.
As for Best; you need to get a ball from his era and one from now; dribble them down a pitch, round cones for about 10 minutes each and see what the difference is. Best was playing with something close to a lump of cement while Messi is playing tippy tappy stuff with a 7 year old's ball of 35 years ago. The same goes for Ronaldo et al.
I'm not trying to have a shot at Messi, Ronaldo or even Maradona who was playing as the new balls started to come into vogue; they were/are superb players. But comparing what they do - particularly the former two - with what Best and Pele did based on stats is nuts. Best could dribble as well as Messi ever has and he did it with a much heavier ball; he could also tackle like Davids and ride tackles with the balance of a cat.
As for Pele's view on Neymar; well, the talent may well be there but he has a long way to go before he's offered enough for anyone to take that assertion seriously. His talent is freaky and I'm looking forward to seeing more of him next season when he hopefully comes to Europe but he can't be compared to Messi - or Ronaldo - yet.
Without wanting to poke holes in your balls theory, i'd like to highlight that if your theory were true, statistically we should be seeing more goals in football than we used to.
While its a difference, i dont think its significant enough to dismiss a baller as good as Messi when comparing with Pele or whichever oldie...
Im with Keni on this, people tend to get sentimental about players they supported as a teenager.... I actually dont think i have seen a better footballer than fat Ronaldo.... But i know that cant be true.
While its a difference, i dont think its significant enough to dismiss a baller as good as Messi when comparing with Pele or whichever oldie...
Im with Keni on this, people tend to get sentimental about players they supported as a teenager.... I actually dont think i have seen a better footballer than fat Ronaldo.... But i know that cant be true.
Not to get too technical but I've got no idea what your'e talking about with the old ball and seeing more goals.
The '86 world cup in Mexico was the first major tournament that introduced a change in football; the ball was made lighter and, with the higher altitude, players started hitting more shots from the edge of the area. A drasticaly increased number of goals from long range was the talking point of the tournament. More goals, more spectacular shots and FIFA declared it a success; we've had a change in balls every tournament since to make it lighter and swerve in the air because FIFA identified goals and entertainment as the same thing.
I've got no real problem with it either way but to suggest that the fact we're seeing more goals from a further distance more regularly isn't something to do with the balls doesn't make sense. It makes no comment on whether Pele, Best or Souness could strike the new ball as well as Messi, Ronaldo or Gerrard.
A lot of the goals that Messi scores are in and around the box. Someone made a compilation of all his zillion goals on YouTube and if you watch it, there are a ridiculous amount of tap ins and that's before you get to the one on ones.
It's not got a whole lot to do with the movement or weight of the ball. Not when it comes to Messi. Just superb strikers instinct, placement and technique.
It's not got a whole lot to do with the movement or weight of the ball. Not when it comes to Messi. Just superb strikers instinct, placement and technique.
Aye, football is a totally different ball game to the one Matthews,Best,Pele etc played. Just as you could say they would all score more, id say they wouldnt have a chance of lasting a modern day match -fitness levels dont begin to compare, the game and the technology have changed immeasurably.
That and nostalgia make the 'Greatest player ever' debate folly.
Just going through players during my life time it becomes difficult enough..
That and nostalgia make the 'Greatest player ever' debate folly.
Just going through players during my life time it becomes difficult enough..
Here's the average number of goals per game in England: http://www.worldfootball.net/statistik/eng-premier-league/1/
Looks to me like there are less goals nowadays, or at the very least there are definitely not more goals nowadays.
It it most likely true that there are more long range goals due to the ball, but the fitness levels, tactics, and improved defending have all led to there being less goals.
Looks to me like there are less goals nowadays, or at the very least there are definitely not more goals nowadays.
It it most likely true that there are more long range goals due to the ball, but the fitness levels, tactics, and improved defending have all led to there being less goals.
Wiz, You are chatting rubbish in this instance mate.
First you argued goal scoring record of Messi and Best is not comparable because modern day ball made goal scoring easy.
If this were true, it simply has to mean overall we score more goals per game than we used to.... Which isnt the case.
Then you changed your point to scoring long range goals. You make it sound like its a easy thing to do. Even for someone like Gerrard or Lampard.. I. E the very best at scoring that type of goals, its not an easy thing to do. If you looked at the ratio of outside box goals to inside box goals for these guys, its probably less than 0.2. Neither Best nor Messi specilised in scoring long range belters. So its safe to say that even if what you say is true, its not enough to entirely dismiss goal scoring records.
If you argued that players were tackled in a rough way back then, then i would argue that players get closed down a hell of a lot quicker. So on and so forth on other factors... See HCs post. I do agree that its pointless to compare, but you seem to be dismissing the possibility that Messi could well be a better footballer because things were difficult back then. I disagree.
So all said and done Messi is what banking geeks call a multivariate outlier of this modern era. The only thing that is comparable is whether Pele, Maradona, and Best etc stood out from the crowd even more than Messi does for example.
Its a bitch to make long posts on the phone....
First you argued goal scoring record of Messi and Best is not comparable because modern day ball made goal scoring easy.
If this were true, it simply has to mean overall we score more goals per game than we used to.... Which isnt the case.
Then you changed your point to scoring long range goals. You make it sound like its a easy thing to do. Even for someone like Gerrard or Lampard.. I. E the very best at scoring that type of goals, its not an easy thing to do. If you looked at the ratio of outside box goals to inside box goals for these guys, its probably less than 0.2. Neither Best nor Messi specilised in scoring long range belters. So its safe to say that even if what you say is true, its not enough to entirely dismiss goal scoring records.
If you argued that players were tackled in a rough way back then, then i would argue that players get closed down a hell of a lot quicker. So on and so forth on other factors... See HCs post. I do agree that its pointless to compare, but you seem to be dismissing the possibility that Messi could well be a better footballer because things were difficult back then. I disagree.
So all said and done Messi is what banking geeks call a multivariate outlier of this modern era. The only thing that is comparable is whether Pele, Maradona, and Best etc stood out from the crowd even more than Messi does for example.
Its a bitch to make long posts on the phone....
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