Move Gerrard back now and play Yossi in the hole!

[Dreambeliever]

Today just showed how ineffective Gerrard and Torres can be against good teams unless they get the supply from midfield which they didn't today.

They were totally isolated.


Get Gerrard back there, drop Lucas and pray we can make up this early lost ground.

Chelsea deserved their win today.

 

[Rosco]

But Aquilani will probably be back by the time we play again

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36277.msg957624#msg957624 date=1254692279]
But Aquilani will probably be back by the time we play again
[/quote]

A man who has been out for that long needs to be eased in slowly!

 

[spider-Neil]

the three 'A' should improve our ability to create chances and keep the ball

agger
aqualini
aurelio

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Have we got an reserve game for Aquilani to play in during the international break?

 

[ILD]

I'm worried people are going to expect Aqualini to be the new messiah.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I'm expecting him to a shite perma-crock. That way I won't be disappointed if it turns out to be the case.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=36277.msg957636#msg957636 date=1254695411]
I'm expecting him to a shite perma-crock. That way I won't be disappointed if it turns out to be the case.
[/quote]

I want to do that but I think the excitement will get too much when he makes his debut.

 

[Buddha]

[quote author=ILD link=topic=36277.msg957634#msg957634 date=1254695231]
I'm worried people are going to expect Aqualini to be the new messiah.
[/quote]

I think it's fair to expect he'll improve the present side.

 

[The Slugmonster]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36277.msg957623#msg957623 date=1254692199]
Today just showed how ineffective Gerrard and Torres can be against good teams unless they get the supply from midfield which they didn't today.

They were totally isolated.


Get Gerrard back there, drop Lucas and pray we can make up this early lost ground.

Chelsea deserved their win today.
[/quote]

Its good to make a suggestion but quite frankly people blame lucas way too much...he wasnt our worst player today. Mascher mistake and carra getting done by drogba. Also Torres not finishing 3 chances that would normally have been tucked away on any other day cant be blamed on poor supply. Both teams got supply...just Chelsea managed to convert theirs. Now ill shout up b4 some1 refers me to the scapegoat thread!!

 

[Whaddapie]

Ok, but whilst Lucas wasn't the reason we lost today, he provided NOTHING whatsoever to help us win / avoid defeat either...

I don't think there's any doubt that both Riera or Yossi give us FAR more then Lucas does, so the time has come (probably three weeks ago, tbh) to accept that it's better for the team to have Gerrard sit in the CM role beside Mascher and allow Yossi to play in the hole he vacates. It's what gives us the best chance to win NOW, regardless of what may change when Aquilani joins the team.

I mean, it's what ends up happening in the final fifteen minutes of a game we're not winning anyway, so Rafa obviously thinks it's for the best at THAT stage in the game... Why not start that way, then?

 

[franklyfrank]

What does every1 make of Insua?before these last few games i was a big fan but now im not sure about him.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=ILD link=topic=36277.msg957634#msg957634 date=1254695231]
I'm worried people are going to expect Aqualini to be the new messiah.
[/quote]

Me too.

Veron came from Italy with the Rep of being the best creative midfielder around and could not handle the pace.

He may become the best thing since sliced bread but at the very least will need time to settle.

 

[Fox]

spot on DB, our team is crying out for stevie in the middle.

We have not won the title with 2 non scoring CMs, chelsea had a midfield of 4 possible scorers, UTD and Ars the same. We have 2 non scoring midfielders in masher and lucas and we had the same for years with Xabi.

When is Rafa going to learn this does not score you enough goals in enough games. If Aqualini is a goal scorer then great but STevie has to play in the middle NOW.

How come the chavs can play that 4 and two strikers, we play one striker and 2 negative midfielders who are supposed to protect the back four, lets face it no protection is happening is it.

Either change what has not worked in the PL for 5 yrs RAFA and makes us a good cup team or give someone else a chance.

Rafa's team is not setup to win the PL

 

[mark1975]

I agree, I mean, they were totally shite at Old Trafford last season, and when we put 4 past Chelsea, and when we beat Chelsea twice in the league, and when we put 4 past Arsenal..

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36277.msg957758#msg957758 date=1254727634]
I agree, I mean, they were totally shite at Old Trafford last season, and when we put 4 past Chelsea, and when we beat Chelsea twice in the league, and when we put 4 past Arsenal..
[/quote]

We look very different to the team of last year Mark and the main reason for that is Alonso missing.

To fix that you know what has to happen.

 

[Fox]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36277.msg957758#msg957758 date=1254727634]
I agree, I mean, they were totally shite at Old Trafford last season, and when we put 4 past Chelsea, and when we beat Chelsea twice in the league, and when we put 4 past Arsenal..
[/quote]

come on Mark I said over the season. Yes with Stevie behind nando we will win lots of games when they are on form. When they are rusty or injured we have to let more players express themselves. Having 2 strikers or Yossi and Nando with Stevie behind would give us more options attacking wise.

There is no need to play two holding midfielders, that is a cup tactic to pinch games FFS, it will not work over a whole season

To be fair to Rafa he said as much when he bought Aqualini, he talked about him giving a greater goal threat that Xabi.

But FFS Rafa until then play Stevie in there every game to give us a chance of not being a "2 man team" lke every fucker accuses us of

 

[Roopy]

To be fair to Rafa he said as much when he bought Aqualini, he talked about him giving a greater goal threat that Xabi.

No doubt about it. He is a much bigger goal threat.

 

[jimmy]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=36277.msg957645#msg957645 date=1254697723]
Ok, but whilst Lucas wasn't the reason we lost today, he provided NOTHING whatsoever to help us win / avoid defeat either...

I don't think there's any doubt that both Riera or Yossi give us FAR more then Lucas does, so the time has come (probably three weeks ago, tbh) to accept that it's better for the team to have Gerrard sit in the CM role beside Mascher and allow Yossi to play in the hole he vacates. It's what gives us the best chance to win NOW, regardless of what may change when Aquilani joins the team.

I mean, it's what ends up happening in the final fifteen minutes of a game we're not winning anyway, so Rafa obviously thinks it's for the best at THAT stage in the game... Why not start that way, then?
[/quote]

Totally agree.
Lucas may not be the reason for this defeat as well as for the one in Italy, but what he has to offer in terms of pushing us to wins or to avoid defeats is absolutely 0.
My concern re moving Gerrard back to CM is that playing off Torres seems to have made him less aggressive in the tacle than he used to be, although it will probably come back to him within a few games.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Roopy link=topic=36277.msg957761#msg957761 date=1254728422]

To be fair to Rafa he said as much when he bought Aqualini, he talked about him giving a greater goal threat that Xabi.

No doubt about it. He is a much bigger goal threat.
[/quote]

I'd settle for someone who could simply hold his position, put his foot on the ball and take charge of the midfield to be honest. Anything beyond that at this point would be a nice bonus.

 

[Fox]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=36277.msg957766#msg957766 date=1254729156]
[quote author=Roopy link=topic=36277.msg957761#msg957761 date=1254728422]

To be fair to Rafa he said as much when he bought Aqualini, he talked about him giving a greater goal threat that Xabi.

No doubt about it. He is a much bigger goal threat.
[/quote]

I'd settle for someone who could simply hold his position, put his foot on the ball and take charge of the midfield to be honest. Anything beyond that at this point would be a nice bonus.
[/quote]


thing is Ken, why does Rafa think he knows better than fegie, wenger and Chavs boss (whoever). Why does Rafa think we need two defensive midfielders, no other fucker does, you could almost say fair enough if we kept clean sheets with the so called PROTECTION

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=36277.msg957645#msg957645 date=1254697723]
Ok, but whilst Lucas wasn't the reason we lost today, he provided NOTHING whatsoever to help us win / avoid defeat either...
I don't think there's any doubt that both Riera or Yossi give us FAR more then Lucas does, so the time has come (probably three weeks ago, tbh) to accept that it's better for the team to have Gerrard sit in the CM role beside Mascher and allow Yossi to play in the hole he vacates. It's what gives us the best chance to win NOW, regardless of what may change when Aquilani joins the team.

I mean, it's what ends up happening in the final fifteen minutes of a game we're not winning anyway, so Rafa obviously thinks it's for the best at THAT stage in the game... Why not start that way, then?
[/quote]

The same could be said of Riera, Gerrard and Torres at the very least.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Fox link=topic=36277.msg957769#msg957769 date=1254729404]
thing is Ken, why does Rafa think he knows better than fegie, wenger and Chavs boss (whoever). Why does Rafa think we need two defensive midfielders, no other fucker does, you could almost say fair enough if we kept clean sheets with the so called PROTECTION
[/quote]

Err... I'm sorry Fox, but that's an awful post.

Why does the Chavs boss (whoever) play without wingers, instead opting to have the fullbacks provide the width? I mean, does he think he knows better than Fergie!?!?!

 

[Fox]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=36277.msg957772#msg957772 date=1254729548]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=36277.msg957769#msg957769 date=1254729404]
thing is Ken, why does Rafa think he knows better than fegie, wenger and Chavs boss (whoever). Why does Rafa think we need two defensive midfielders, no other fucker does, you could almost say fair enough if we kept clean sheets with the so called PROTECTION
[/quote]

Err... I'm sorry Fox, but that's an awful post.

Why does the Chavs boss (whoever) play without wingers, instead opting to have the fullbacks provide the width? I mean, does he think he knows better than Fergie!?!?!
[/quote]


no problem ken, whether the chavs have the genuine wingers now is another issue, Malouda and Cole play when fit of course.

Its about goal threats, when have two main ones and two "mini" ones in our wingers. You need 5 genuine goal threats IMO.

Arsenal have an extra one in that centre half FFS 😱

 

[Ossi]

We have the worst cm-pairing in Lucas and Mascherano of the top 4-5 teams. Don´t know what kind of player Lucas is trying to be....he´s not a defensive midfielder (as he can´t tackle) nor a creative one as he can´t pass the ball. He´s shit and I wish Rafa could realise that Lucas is a squad player...at best.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Fox link=topic=36277.msg957774#msg957774 date=1254730000]
no problem ken, whether the chavs have the genuine wingers now is another issue, Malouda and Cole play when fit of course.

Its about goal threats, when have two main ones and two "mini" ones in our wingers. You need 5 genuine goal threats IMO.

Arsenal have an extra one in that centre half FFS 😱
[/quote]

Cole hasn't been fit for a year, so you can't say he plays and Malouda plays as an AM rather than an out and out winger.

The point is, it's absurd to start talking about a manager as though he's sat behind his desk thinking of ways he can appear to be smarter than other managers. Every manager has his own ideas, philosophies and tactics. That's just the way it is.

As for who else plays with two defensive midfielders...

Brazil
Argentina
Real Madrid
Milan
Barca (at times, if you count Keita as a DM when played alongside Busquets / Toure)
.
.
.
.

 

[spider-Neil]

nothing wrong with playing two defensive midfielders as long as long as at least one of them is giving something going forwards.
alonso for instance sat deeper than masher but could hurt teams at a distance. neither mash or lucas is offering something going forwards -

'oh, but it not there job to do that', the truth is they aren't doing enough in defensive capacity covering the runs of the fullbacks so the fullbacks can play further up field (I've noticed johnson getting forwards less often now) and they most certainly aren't offering enough in an attacking capacity, I'm not talking goals or asssits I'm taking playing further up the pitch to give passing options and making penetrative passes.

one of them needs to take some reponisbility going forwards or both of them need to do more to shield the fullbacks runs, if you can't do the former (attack) work harder so the people who 'can' attack have freedom to do so.

 

[rurikbird]

Actually, Lucas makes more forward runs than Alonso ever did.

 

[Squiggles]

Gerrard should be moved back

Stevie and Masher are not the ideal partnership because both have a tendency to go looking for the ball but Gerrard is disciplined enough to be considerably more effective then Lucas. And with Yossi in the form of his life, it seems crazy to bench him instead of partnering up with Torres, who loves playing with the Israeli.

Masher and Lucas doesn't work just because of today - they were up against the worlds best, but it's been proven that the combo has difficult linking the play to our attacking players. Partnering these two has been a factor in the points lost this season

 

[Judge Jules]

Lucas is willing enough but just not very good at those attacking runs, and that was never something Alonso did much anyway. Alonso's real attacking weapon was his passing ability - something else in which Lucas (unfortunately) is miles behind. He's just not up to the job he's being asked to do.