Poll Mignolet or Karius
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"I've had 2 odd years of that vagina Mignolet to know he's not fucking good enough, I'm prepared to give this kid more than a half dozen games"
Yeah, I think Mignolet is shite too, but giving karius more games is easier said than done, and it doesn't help when he plays like this most of the time
Yeah, I think Mignolet is shite too, but giving karius more games is easier said than done, and it doesn't help when he plays like this most of the time
Some people give up on a player after 15 mins though. Its happened to several of the players that now are some of the most important parts of the team.
Part of the problem is, despite our allegedly shitty defence, he's had very little to do so his mistake tally continues to rise but I think I've seen only him make three saves.
People can be so mean, Hansern.
More stupid than mean.
Here, come on, don't start crying again. Good lad.
Dont be in a bad mood just because Spurs lost yesterday. Chin up.
Just posted most of this in the West Ham post match thread, but makes sense to have it here.
A keeper, esp in our system, is supposed to be an outlet for the back four & be able to be comfortable being passed to continually.
Mignolet is more nervous receiving the ball than any keeper I have ever seen at any level. That makes the defence reluctant to pass to him & gives the opposition chances. When he does come for it he panics & it could go anywhere, again gives the opposition chances. Watching us play with him in goal is terrifying.
Just cos Karius is proving himself incapable of saving the ball doesn't mean we should choose someone who is incapable of receiving back passes & has a fear of crosses greater than dracula.
That would be swapping one set of deficiencies for another, which wouldn't help.
Either Karius comes through this & proves himself capable of the actual keeping side of the game, or we get someone else.
A keeper, esp in our system, is supposed to be an outlet for the back four & be able to be comfortable being passed to continually.
Mignolet is more nervous receiving the ball than any keeper I have ever seen at any level. That makes the defence reluctant to pass to him & gives the opposition chances. When he does come for it he panics & it could go anywhere, again gives the opposition chances. Watching us play with him in goal is terrifying.
Just cos Karius is proving himself incapable of saving the ball doesn't mean we should choose someone who is incapable of receiving back passes & has a fear of crosses greater than dracula.
That would be swapping one set of deficiencies for another, which wouldn't help.
Either Karius comes through this & proves himself capable of the actual keeping side of the game, or we get someone else.
I'm not sure about that. His kicking has been generally OK.
It's been the jittery lack of composure, inconsistent shot-stopping and his general flappiness under high balls.
Mingolet would have saved the freekick yesterday.... One thing he is great at is being a decent shot stopper..
So on that basis.. Stick the Ming in goal..
So on that basis.. Stick the Ming in goal..
Does our system rely on the sweeper-keeper *that* much?
I'm not sure.
Not as 'I'm arguing'. As in 'I don't know'
Nah, I often watch him & think he has something there. He tells the defence what to do more appropriately than Mignolet for a start (who just randomly shouts & is usually ignored cos he's wrong), is very comfortable with back passes at speed even with strikers close, & usually deals with crosses fairly well.
I'm hoping the rest of the time I watch him when he looks awful is just a confidence thing & he'll come to form.
As you said though, part of me suspects I'll regret that hope.
We pass it back a lot. Our back four seem to have the instruction to play it between them until a midfield option opens up, if none is available it goes back to the keeper.
Against a lot of sides they push up so that option isn't there & the keeper comes into play. Because their striker will then run towards the keeper he can play the ball to a defender who is free, pulling a midfielder towards them, & that frees up one of our midfield to play it, etc etc.
He would have saved the second goal too. Karius looked ridiculous, you could see he lost focus upon saving the ball and was more concerned about "making himself big" because presumably that's what he's been coached to do. There's no point standing like a fucking starfish when the striker rolls the ball meekly past your leg. I don't think Karius has a natural desire to keep the ball out of the net at all costs. He's like most modern day players, worried about trying to apply the theory and stick to his coaching, and totally forgetting his actual one fucking job.
The high balls thing is something I really don't get.
He's decent on crosses most of the time, yet a straight or only slightly angled high ball seems to confound him.
I find myself wondering if the Premiership ball is much lighter than the German league ball, or if he's used to a defence having a more defined & predictable role in dealing with them (our defence is equally awful with dropping high balls, often letting them bounce, which is drummed out of most defenders at Sunday league level).
Yeah, I've been very critical of both keepers, with justification, but there's no way the rest of that defence get a free pass; they're as culpable and it's too easy to blame everything on the keeper, even if he is shit
Maybe, but I'm not convinced that his weaknesses as a goalkeeper are really fixable
You cannot blame the first goal on the defence, Lallana gave away the free kick which was eminently saveable. The second goal was just unfortunate, lucky deflection and it looked as if Matip lost the ball in the floodlights to me. In any case a lucky break for West Ham. The keeper is there to save those chances 8/10 times unless faced by someone of Messi's class - Antonia iis no Messi. The keeper is there to save us in those situations - he didn't - he should get the blame.
Ming did the exact same mistake against Sunderland last season though. Against Adam Johnson.
Karius starting position was poor and he should have been able to keep it out regardless. It went through the wall as well if I remember correctly, which also makes a case of blaming the defenders for some of it, albeit a small part.
There's no point dropping Karius. Like Macca said, the die has already been cast in putting him straight into the side. The last thing we need is continual chopping and changing amongst our defenders. There's an argument to be made about the keepers but apart from that we're playing our best back four in Clyne, Matip, Lovren and Milner; not giving Karius a long run to establish a relationship with the back four would be counter-productive. Also, Mignolet isn't really any better.
Is there anyone (@King Binny) that might have some statistical insight into comparing Mignolet versus Karius for the ratio of opposition shots on target : opposition goals. (Also a comparison to all other premier league keepers?)
For me, the reason that I hate Karius is that (in my head at least) that ratio is almost 1 :1 and probably in the bottom 3 in the premier league compared to other keepers. He just doesn't seem to save anything of note. Forget sweeper keeper bullshit, the primary reason a goalkeeper in in the nets is to stop shots - and Karius is fucking shit at this fundamental thing.
For me, the reason that I hate Karius is that (in my head at least) that ratio is almost 1 :1 and probably in the bottom 3 in the premier league compared to other keepers. He just doesn't seem to save anything of note. Forget sweeper keeper bullshit, the primary reason a goalkeeper in in the nets is to stop shots - and Karius is fucking shit at this fundamental thing.
There was a comparison prior to the match yesterday for the entire season 15/16. Which makes me a bit optimistic that we arent seeing the real Karius at this point, and the one who was very good in the Bundesliga. Hopefully he can improve and develop positively for us as well and find that level he had last season.
KEY STATS - Loris Karius vs Mignolet Catches completed: 99% vs 82% Saves per goal: 2.1 vs 1.3 Errors leading to goals: 0 vs 4
KEY STATS - Loris Karius vs Mignolet Catches completed: 99% vs 82% Saves per goal: 2.1 vs 1.3 Errors leading to goals: 0 vs 4
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