Are there 2 Kones the same?
Midfielders other than Bellingham
- Thread starter rurikbird
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Are there 2 Kones the same?
Isn't Raiola dead?
Wait till we hit end of May and we haven't signed any midfielders......
Wait till the end of August and we haven’t signed any midfielders.
Yeah, and like this season you'll be ok with that because we nearly won the quad last season.
Fucking hell, Kone is shit compared to Jude. So we need to deep dive more, are Kone team mates in midfield as good as Judes mates at Dortmund ? Also for the record I thought Jude was shit gainst Chelsea in the CL, no way we pay 130M for that.
Sporting have accused us of tapping up Ugarte so we need to move carefully. The window opens up in June at some point, and hopefully we will have identified all our targets... I just hope it's none are crocks.
Wait till the end of August and we have resigned Ox and Naby.
Morton and Bajetic are given new contracts and we once again say "those 4 are like new signings"
We seem to be linked to every midfielder under The Lying Rag, so in my head I kind of organized them into categories in order to understand which role would a potential signing be best equipped to fill. Before we talk about specific players though, here are the 2 qualities I believe we most urgently need to add to the team:
"Defensive monster"
Characteristics – a proper ball winner. Often doesn't have be tied to one position – this player can be nominally a 6, or an 8 or even an inverted full-back or CB/DM. Key is the ability to protect yourself against counter-attacks; speed, dominant athleticism, tactical intelligence and tackling ability are non-negotiable requirements in this position.
1. Moises Caicedo, 21 (Brighton) £90M+. A Wijnaldum with more defensive "bite." Intelligent, fiery, a clean tackler and keeps getting better by the day. Seems an ideal fit; the only issue is the price.
2. Manuel Ugarte, 22 (Sporting) £52M release clause. Physically imposing, a proper combative DM type who can also play a bit. Judging from his tackling style, a potential red card liability in the EPL, could be a bit wild, but hopefully that will be ironed out with good coaching.
3. Aurelien Tchouameni, 23 (Real Madrid), probably £70M+ if he becomes available. Madrid would be stupid to let a generational DM go, but Florentino Perez has a history of doing just that and it does seem that Tchouameni is becoming marginalized lately, probably due to the president's wishes. Don't think we'll be favourites to land him even if he decides to move.
"Just give him the ball"
Characteristics – an all-around talent, physically imposing and able to do everything on the football pitch; a team's primary midfield engine. A new Gerrard or Vieira. Any team can use this kind of player: however it could be argued that with Trent's move into midfield, we have less of an urgent need for these qualities.
1. Jude Bellingham, 19 (Dortmund) £120M+. He's very, very good and very, very expensive. Likes us, but will probably sign for Madrid.
2. Khephren Thuram, 22 (Nice) £50M+Lilian Thuram's younger son has grown into a superb all-around midfielder and should be considered a worthy Bellingham alternative.
3. Alex Scott, 19 (Bristol) £30M+ It's hard to see how we can accommodate a young attack-minded player in this midfield, given the likes of Bajcetic, Jones and Elliott also need to play. Would need to be loaned out.
"Off-the-ball runner"
Characteristics – see "tireless runner" description above.
1. Nicolo Barella, 26 (Inter) £70M+. Other than Madrid's Valverde, Barella is probably currently the classiest midfielder of this type in Europe. A worthy successor to Gattuso, the Sardinian has 8 goals and 9 assists in all competition so far in addition to his all-action selfless running and energy. At that age, he will be looking for his big payday if he moves.
2. Mason Mount, 24 (Chelsea) £70M. Started as an AM/winger, but it seems his biggest talent (and the reason why Klopp reportedly really likes him) is his off-the-ball work, movement and intelligence. Looks like Pochettino will do his best to keep him at Chelsea.
3. Dominik Szoboszlai, 22 (RB Leipzig). Doesn't seem to be actively linked with us or anyone else yet and I have no idea how much he'd cost, but worth keeping an eye on. Like Hendo (or Mount) he seems to be the type who is starting as a winger/AM but seems to have the engine and willingness to cover ground and press that makes me think his future will be in this hybrid midfield/attack role.
"Jack of all trades"
1. Alexis MacAllister, 24 (Brighton) £70M. A player living through his dream season, having won the World Cup and helped his club team to achieve their best-ever season. A proper leader and a useful cog in many ways; I think he would be a perfect Milner replacement – but I also think he is way overpriced for the type of player he is.
2. Ryan Gravenberch, 20 (Bayern) £25M+. Different from MacAllister, but I think he also can be classified in this category. He can be useful in every phase of play, but doesn't seem dominant in either. I have a hard time justifying why we seem to be prioritizing these players over others who have more of the qualities that we need.
- Tackling and mobility. Fabinho can read the game and tackle, but is getting less mobile with age and even with a full turn-around in form at this point I wouldn't trust him as our only enforcer. Hendo can run, but isn't an elite tackler and his positional discipline is suspect. We need someone who can win the ball cleanly in midfield and also has genuine defensive mindset and instincts, sensing the danger and filling spaces and protecting, especially if he's going to be playing next to the free-spirited Trent.
- Tireless running. The position of a free-roaming CM who often overlaps beyond the attackers and often adds the physical presence to the striking trio, acting almost as a 2nd striker, is probably the most under-appreciated in football. These are the players that make constant runs that make the system like Klopp-ball work – remove it and you lose a whole dimension of your attacking play. It requires extraordinary levels of physical endurance and excellent basic technique and cool head to make those times when this player receives the ball in dangerous position count. Valverde in Madrid is the ultimate example of such a player in modern game. This type of player is the key to unlocking the full potential of your forward line.
"Defensive monster"
Characteristics – a proper ball winner. Often doesn't have be tied to one position – this player can be nominally a 6, or an 8 or even an inverted full-back or CB/DM. Key is the ability to protect yourself against counter-attacks; speed, dominant athleticism, tactical intelligence and tackling ability are non-negotiable requirements in this position.
1. Moises Caicedo, 21 (Brighton) £90M+. A Wijnaldum with more defensive "bite." Intelligent, fiery, a clean tackler and keeps getting better by the day. Seems an ideal fit; the only issue is the price.
2. Manuel Ugarte, 22 (Sporting) £52M release clause. Physically imposing, a proper combative DM type who can also play a bit. Judging from his tackling style, a potential red card liability in the EPL, could be a bit wild, but hopefully that will be ironed out with good coaching.
3. Aurelien Tchouameni, 23 (Real Madrid), probably £70M+ if he becomes available. Madrid would be stupid to let a generational DM go, but Florentino Perez has a history of doing just that and it does seem that Tchouameni is becoming marginalized lately, probably due to the president's wishes. Don't think we'll be favourites to land him even if he decides to move.
"Just give him the ball"
Characteristics – an all-around talent, physically imposing and able to do everything on the football pitch; a team's primary midfield engine. A new Gerrard or Vieira. Any team can use this kind of player: however it could be argued that with Trent's move into midfield, we have less of an urgent need for these qualities.
1. Jude Bellingham, 19 (Dortmund) £120M+. He's very, very good and very, very expensive. Likes us, but will probably sign for Madrid.
2. Khephren Thuram, 22 (Nice) £50M+Lilian Thuram's younger son has grown into a superb all-around midfielder and should be considered a worthy Bellingham alternative.
3. Alex Scott, 19 (Bristol) £30M+ It's hard to see how we can accommodate a young attack-minded player in this midfield, given the likes of Bajcetic, Jones and Elliott also need to play. Would need to be loaned out.
"Off-the-ball runner"
Characteristics – see "tireless runner" description above.
1. Nicolo Barella, 26 (Inter) £70M+. Other than Madrid's Valverde, Barella is probably currently the classiest midfielder of this type in Europe. A worthy successor to Gattuso, the Sardinian has 8 goals and 9 assists in all competition so far in addition to his all-action selfless running and energy. At that age, he will be looking for his big payday if he moves.
2. Mason Mount, 24 (Chelsea) £70M. Started as an AM/winger, but it seems his biggest talent (and the reason why Klopp reportedly really likes him) is his off-the-ball work, movement and intelligence. Looks like Pochettino will do his best to keep him at Chelsea.
3. Dominik Szoboszlai, 22 (RB Leipzig). Doesn't seem to be actively linked with us or anyone else yet and I have no idea how much he'd cost, but worth keeping an eye on. Like Hendo (or Mount) he seems to be the type who is starting as a winger/AM but seems to have the engine and willingness to cover ground and press that makes me think his future will be in this hybrid midfield/attack role.
"Jack of all trades"
1. Alexis MacAllister, 24 (Brighton) £70M. A player living through his dream season, having won the World Cup and helped his club team to achieve their best-ever season. A proper leader and a useful cog in many ways; I think he would be a perfect Milner replacement – but I also think he is way overpriced for the type of player he is.
2. Ryan Gravenberch, 20 (Bayern) £25M+. Different from MacAllister, but I think he also can be classified in this category. He can be useful in every phase of play, but doesn't seem dominant in either. I have a hard time justifying why we seem to be prioritizing these players over others who have more of the qualities that we need.
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Coming into this season I said we would struggle to get top 4 unless we got 2 MFs. Next season I hope people at the club will be wiser and get the required personnel. Hopefully Klopp gets 4 as oppose to just one.
Orkan Kocku is very much a Jack of all trades, not particularly fast but gets up and down the pitch. Transfer value €40m
Florian Nuehaus is being linked again. I thought he was slow but he has deceptively quick legs. No way as many goals as Kocku but is the most Wini like player we've been linked to
Well that doesn’t work because we didn’t nearly win the quad this season.
Had we almost won the quad for a second season in a row, I don’t think it would be “mad” to think that, maybe, the squad was reasonably good as is.
I mean, I could start crying about not signing every obscure, decidedly average over-priced fuckstick no-one’s ever heard of or any bearded clam that ended up not actually transferring anywhere despite some even bigger whopper claiming it’s was nailed on via Twatter!!!
Not sure how that helps though..
Which category are the protocol droids filed under?
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they got an excellent player when others hesitated in Bruno ... Looks like they have a good transfer policy too - they continually improve the squad, without excessive splurging.
Nah, I think Gravenberch is very much a first and second phase midfielder. He can receive the ball from defence, beat the press and progress it, but he's quite conservative in the final third. Not the sort who creates or scores goals. I'd compared him to a taller Wijnaldum with a little more playmaking but fewer goals. Gravenberch isn't much of a goalscorer at all.
Defensively, he holds that LCM position well and is very long-limbed which helps in being an effective tackler, but he doesn't have the tenacity or the running power to be a dominant defensive player. So he's very much an all-rounder type midfielder, without excelling at any aspect.
We are the ones that seem to hesitate, especially when its midfielders. Think Klopp just dont give a shit about midfielders, they just need to recycle, and press.
Its ok mate, most people will tell you that they the team almsost completed a quad the season before, no need to sign with that amount of talent. Also if we get 4th...fuck me they will tell, we can got 4th with a bunch of cripples and over used players,
Where does Arthur Melo fit in?
Kinda difficult to take midfielder analysis seriously if they dont focus on the main aspect - Have they got the right body structure?
I tried to keep each category to 3 names max; of course there are a lot more that could be added!
BTW there are a few players linked with us that I'm having trouble classifying, such as Kouadio Kone (likes to dribble, but also does a lot of off-the-ball running) and Lavia (more defensively-minded than Khephren Thuram and an excellent long passer, without being a playmaker). With young players in particular it's hard, because their own game is not polished yet and you have to guess in which direction they will eventually develop.
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Your post is perfect and anyone who wants to add to it can feel free to make their own post of informative and nuanced takes on what we need
Tell em to get fucked @rurikbird
Tell em to get fucked @rurikbird
Not since our real SD came back in the guise of an AM.
Ali and Fab both speak Portuguese. If we don't get Ugarte - I'd like us to look at France. Lens CDM looks tasty as does Yusuf Fofana. The Mexican who plays for Ajax as CDM just doesn't look fast enough
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