i thought cole, drogba and carv were already done deals before he came? as in bought by ranieri? i was not following football at the time.
Maxi Rodriguez on loan for rest of the season?
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This comparison about player transfers is interesting; but even if we could get a supercomputer to spit out the trufax that Rafa has bought 1 dud to Fergies and MOurinho's ten, there is one vital difference.
Mourinho has won it twice and Fergie has won it eleven times.
As has been said by lots of people, transfer dud ratios and net spend would be important; if we were Ajax.
Mourinho has won it twice and Fergie has won it eleven times.
As has been said by lots of people, transfer dud ratios and net spend would be important; if we were Ajax.
Im sure Rafa and a host of other managers would be able to get some decent players for the 80 million those 4 players cost.
Rafas problem is that a lot of the dross he has bought were 2nd choice.
Jose has proved that if he is given money, he'll put together a great team. I e Inter.
Rafas problem is that a lot of the dross he has bought were 2nd choice.
Jose has proved that if he is given money, he'll put together a great team. I e Inter.
S
Squiggles
Guest
And Chelsea's fees have to be seen within isolation.
You're wrong Skully
When exactly did you *resume* being interested in football?
When exactly did you *resume* being interested in football?
He was able to afford buying top quality players, though. Our budget is significantly less, so blew up in our faces a hell of a lot more when it went wrong.
I think it's really tough for Benitez, though, to try and find top talent with a smaller budget than his main competitors. That doesn't excuse the fact that he's got a lot wrong, though.
Here's a list of flops or people who didn't really impress. More to satisfy my own curiosity really:
Keane £20m, Babel £11.5m, Dossena £8m, Pennant £6.7m, Lucas £6m, Bellamy £6m, Sissoko £6m, Morientes £5m, Cavalieri £4m (Surely we didn't pay that much for a reserve keeper!?) Leto £2.5m, Paletta £2m, Josemi £2m, Kromkamp, Mark Gonzalez (Not sure how much we paid for him), Kyrgiakos £2M, Carson £1.5m, and a whole host of kids who cost god knows how much.
EDIT: And how can I forget the almost catastrophic freebies he picks up. They don't cost anything in terms of money, but they certainly do cost us points. Pellegrino, Voronin, Degen etc.
I think it's really tough for Benitez, though, to try and find top talent with a smaller budget than his main competitors. That doesn't excuse the fact that he's got a lot wrong, though.
Here's a list of flops or people who didn't really impress. More to satisfy my own curiosity really:
Keane £20m, Babel £11.5m, Dossena £8m, Pennant £6.7m, Lucas £6m, Bellamy £6m, Sissoko £6m, Morientes £5m, Cavalieri £4m (Surely we didn't pay that much for a reserve keeper!?) Leto £2.5m, Paletta £2m, Josemi £2m, Kromkamp, Mark Gonzalez (Not sure how much we paid for him), Kyrgiakos £2M, Carson £1.5m, and a whole host of kids who cost god knows how much.
EDIT: And how can I forget the almost catastrophic freebies he picks up. They don't cost anything in terms of money, but they certainly do cost us points. Pellegrino, Voronin, Degen etc.
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=38216.msg1025820#msg1025820 date=1262545245]
This comparison about player transfers is interesting; but even if we could get a supercomputer to spit out the trufax that Rafa has bought 1 dud to Fergies and MOurinho's ten, there is one vital difference.
Mourinho has won it twice and Fergie has won it eleven times.
As has been said by lots of people, transfer dud ratios and net spend would be important; if we were Ajax.
[/quote]
Very good point.
This comparison about player transfers is interesting; but even if we could get a supercomputer to spit out the trufax that Rafa has bought 1 dud to Fergies and MOurinho's ten, there is one vital difference.
Mourinho has won it twice and Fergie has won it eleven times.
As has been said by lots of people, transfer dud ratios and net spend would be important; if we were Ajax.
[/quote]
Very good point.
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=38216.msg1025821#msg1025821 date=1262545600]
Im sure Rafa and a host of other managers would be able to get some decent players for the 80 million those 4 players cost.
Rafas problem is that a lot of the dross he has bought were 2nd choice.
Jose has proved that if he is given money, he'll put together a great team. I e Inter.
[/quote]
There have been occasions, though, where he has missed out on a top target and instead gone and bought two mediocre players to make up for it. Why not buy one top class player? If he'd done that we might have a thin squad (which it is anyway), but at least we'd have more than two world class attacking players.
Im sure Rafa and a host of other managers would be able to get some decent players for the 80 million those 4 players cost.
Rafas problem is that a lot of the dross he has bought were 2nd choice.
Jose has proved that if he is given money, he'll put together a great team. I e Inter.
[/quote]
There have been occasions, though, where he has missed out on a top target and instead gone and bought two mediocre players to make up for it. Why not buy one top class player? If he'd done that we might have a thin squad (which it is anyway), but at least we'd have more than two world class attacking players.
bloody hell. it's just shocking that we spent 20 mill on keane. absolutely shocking.
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=38216.msg1025824#msg1025824 date=1262545712]
Here's a list of flops or people who didn't really impress. More to satisfy my own curiosity really:
Keane £20mGot most of it back, Babel £11.5m, Dossena £8m, Pennant £6.7m, Lucas £6mWorth more than that now, Bellamy £6mWorth more than that now, probably, Sissoko £6mFor a while, looked bvery good, Morientes £5mClass player - didn't settle, Cavalieri £4m (Surely we didn't pay that much for a reserve keeper!?)Can't defend that one Leto £2.5m, Paletta £2m, Josemi £2m, KromkampWe ended up with Arbeloa at no loss, Mark Gonzalez (Not sure how much we paid for him), Kyrgiakos £2M, Carson £1.5mEngland keepers don't normally come thiss cheap, and a whole host of kids who cost god knows how muchYouth system has been re-vamped to a state where we are starting to bring talent through, a far cry from the miserable state it was in before Rafa.
EDIT: And how can I forget the almost catastrophic freebies he picks up. They don't cost anything in terms of money, but they certainly do cost us points. Pellegrino, Voronin, Degen etc.
[/quote]
Doesn't remotely compare to the money wasted by Mourinho. I'm not particularly defending Rafa. The current state of our club is very worrying and it may be time for a change ... but Rafa has done well by us overall.
Here's a list of flops or people who didn't really impress. More to satisfy my own curiosity really:
Keane £20mGot most of it back, Babel £11.5m, Dossena £8m, Pennant £6.7m, Lucas £6mWorth more than that now, Bellamy £6mWorth more than that now, probably, Sissoko £6mFor a while, looked bvery good, Morientes £5mClass player - didn't settle, Cavalieri £4m (Surely we didn't pay that much for a reserve keeper!?)Can't defend that one Leto £2.5m, Paletta £2m, Josemi £2m, KromkampWe ended up with Arbeloa at no loss, Mark Gonzalez (Not sure how much we paid for him), Kyrgiakos £2M, Carson £1.5mEngland keepers don't normally come thiss cheap, and a whole host of kids who cost god knows how muchYouth system has been re-vamped to a state where we are starting to bring talent through, a far cry from the miserable state it was in before Rafa.
EDIT: And how can I forget the almost catastrophic freebies he picks up. They don't cost anything in terms of money, but they certainly do cost us points. Pellegrino, Voronin, Degen etc.
[/quote]
Doesn't remotely compare to the money wasted by Mourinho. I'm not particularly defending Rafa. The current state of our club is very worrying and it may be time for a change ... but Rafa has done well by us overall.
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=Mersey86 link=topic=38216.msg1025873#msg1025873 date=1262551388]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=38216.msg1025824#msg1025824 date=1262545712]
Here's a list of flops or people who didn't really impress. More to satisfy my own curiosity really:
Keane £20mGot most of it back, Babel £11.5m, Dossena £8m, Pennant £6.7m, Lucas £6mWorth more than that now, Bellamy £6mWorth more than that now, probably, Sissoko £6mFor a while, looked bvery good, Morientes £5mClass player - didn't settle, Cavalieri £4m (Surely we didn't pay that much for a reserve keeper!?)Can't defend that one Leto £2.5m, Paletta £2m, Josemi £2m, KromkampWe ended up with Arbeloa at no loss, Mark Gonzalez (Not sure how much we paid for him), Kyrgiakos £2M, Carson £1.5mEngland keepers don't normally come thiss cheap, and a whole host of kids who cost god knows how muchYouth system has been re-vamped to a state where we are starting to bring talent through, a far cry from the miserable state it was in before Rafa.
EDIT: And how can I forget the almost catastrophic freebies he picks up. They don't cost anything in terms of money, but they certainly do cost us points. Pellegrino, Voronin, Degen etc.
[/quote]
Doesn't remotely compare to the money wasted by Mourinho. I'm not particularly defending Rafa. The current state of our club is very worrying and it may be time for a change ... but Rafa has done well by us overall.
[/quote]
Who cares 'how much we got back' (we didn't even get to spend the Keane money), or what they're worth now? (playing for a top four club boosts anyone's value, it's not an achievement)
We're football fans, not accountants. Those signings all flopped on a footballing level, and for that Benitez is solely accountable.
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=38216.msg1025824#msg1025824 date=1262545712]
Here's a list of flops or people who didn't really impress. More to satisfy my own curiosity really:
Keane £20mGot most of it back, Babel £11.5m, Dossena £8m, Pennant £6.7m, Lucas £6mWorth more than that now, Bellamy £6mWorth more than that now, probably, Sissoko £6mFor a while, looked bvery good, Morientes £5mClass player - didn't settle, Cavalieri £4m (Surely we didn't pay that much for a reserve keeper!?)Can't defend that one Leto £2.5m, Paletta £2m, Josemi £2m, KromkampWe ended up with Arbeloa at no loss, Mark Gonzalez (Not sure how much we paid for him), Kyrgiakos £2M, Carson £1.5mEngland keepers don't normally come thiss cheap, and a whole host of kids who cost god knows how muchYouth system has been re-vamped to a state where we are starting to bring talent through, a far cry from the miserable state it was in before Rafa.
EDIT: And how can I forget the almost catastrophic freebies he picks up. They don't cost anything in terms of money, but they certainly do cost us points. Pellegrino, Voronin, Degen etc.
[/quote]
Doesn't remotely compare to the money wasted by Mourinho. I'm not particularly defending Rafa. The current state of our club is very worrying and it may be time for a change ... but Rafa has done well by us overall.
[/quote]
Who cares 'how much we got back' (we didn't even get to spend the Keane money), or what they're worth now? (playing for a top four club boosts anyone's value, it's not an achievement)
We're football fans, not accountants. Those signings all flopped on a footballing level, and for that Benitez is solely accountable.
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=38216.msg1025819#msg1025819 date=1262545207]
i thought cole, drogba and carv were already done deals before he came? as in bought by ranieri? i was not following football at the time.
[/quote]
Ranieiri tied up deals for Robben and Cech before he left.
Mourinho brought Carvalho with him.
i thought cole, drogba and carv were already done deals before he came? as in bought by ranieri? i was not following football at the time.
[/quote]
Ranieiri tied up deals for Robben and Cech before he left.
Mourinho brought Carvalho with him.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38216.msg1025882#msg1025882 date=1262552834]
[quote author=Mersey86 link=topic=38216.msg1025873#msg1025873 date=1262551388]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=38216.msg1025824#msg1025824 date=1262545712]
Here's a list of flops or people who didn't really impress. More to satisfy my own curiosity really:
Keane £20mGot most of it back, Babel £11.5m, Dossena £8m, Pennant £6.7m, Lucas £6mWorth more than that now, Bellamy £6mWorth more than that now, probably, Sissoko £6mFor a while, looked bvery good, Morientes £5mClass player - didn't settle, Cavalieri £4m (Surely we didn't pay that much for a reserve keeper!?)Can't defend that one Leto £2.5m, Paletta £2m, Josemi £2m, KromkampWe ended up with Arbeloa at no loss, Mark Gonzalez (Not sure how much we paid for him), Kyrgiakos £2M, Carson £1.5mEngland keepers don't normally come thiss cheap, and a whole host of kids who cost god knows how muchYouth system has been re-vamped to a state where we are starting to bring talent through, a far cry from the miserable state it was in before Rafa.
EDIT: And how can I forget the almost catastrophic freebies he picks up. They don't cost anything in terms of money, but they certainly do cost us points. Pellegrino, Voronin, Degen etc.
[/quote]
Doesn't remotely compare to the money wasted by Mourinho. I'm not particularly defending Rafa. The current state of our club is very worrying and it may be time for a change ... but Rafa has done well by us overall.
[/quote]
Who cares 'how much we got back' (we didn't even get to spend the Keane money), or what they're worth now? (playing for a top four club boosts anyone's value, it's not an achievement)
We're football fans, not accountants. Those signings all flopped on a footballing level, and for that Benitez is solely accountable.
[/quote]
It wouldn't be so bad if a few occured, and were seemingly isolated incidents. It's the fact that it repeatedly occurs that's the problem for me, he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes.
[quote author=Mersey86 link=topic=38216.msg1025873#msg1025873 date=1262551388]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=38216.msg1025824#msg1025824 date=1262545712]
Here's a list of flops or people who didn't really impress. More to satisfy my own curiosity really:
Keane £20mGot most of it back, Babel £11.5m, Dossena £8m, Pennant £6.7m, Lucas £6mWorth more than that now, Bellamy £6mWorth more than that now, probably, Sissoko £6mFor a while, looked bvery good, Morientes £5mClass player - didn't settle, Cavalieri £4m (Surely we didn't pay that much for a reserve keeper!?)Can't defend that one Leto £2.5m, Paletta £2m, Josemi £2m, KromkampWe ended up with Arbeloa at no loss, Mark Gonzalez (Not sure how much we paid for him), Kyrgiakos £2M, Carson £1.5mEngland keepers don't normally come thiss cheap, and a whole host of kids who cost god knows how muchYouth system has been re-vamped to a state where we are starting to bring talent through, a far cry from the miserable state it was in before Rafa.
EDIT: And how can I forget the almost catastrophic freebies he picks up. They don't cost anything in terms of money, but they certainly do cost us points. Pellegrino, Voronin, Degen etc.
[/quote]
Doesn't remotely compare to the money wasted by Mourinho. I'm not particularly defending Rafa. The current state of our club is very worrying and it may be time for a change ... but Rafa has done well by us overall.
[/quote]
Who cares 'how much we got back' (we didn't even get to spend the Keane money), or what they're worth now? (playing for a top four club boosts anyone's value, it's not an achievement)
We're football fans, not accountants. Those signings all flopped on a footballing level, and for that Benitez is solely accountable.
[/quote]
It wouldn't be so bad if a few occured, and were seemingly isolated incidents. It's the fact that it repeatedly occurs that's the problem for me, he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38216.msg1025882#msg1025882 date=1262552834]
[quote author=Mersey86 link=topic=38216.msg1025873#msg1025873 date=1262551388]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=38216.msg1025824#msg1025824 date=1262545712]
Here's a list of flops or people who didn't really impress. More to satisfy my own curiosity really:
Keane £20mGot most of it back, Babel £11.5m, Dossena £8m, Pennant £6.7m, Lucas £6mWorth more than that now, Bellamy £6mWorth more than that now, probably, Sissoko £6mFor a while, looked bvery good, Morientes £5mClass player - didn't settle, Cavalieri £4m (Surely we didn't pay that much for a reserve keeper!?)Can't defend that one Leto £2.5m, Paletta £2m, Josemi £2m, KromkampWe ended up with Arbeloa at no loss, Mark Gonzalez (Not sure how much we paid for him), Kyrgiakos £2M, Carson £1.5mEngland keepers don't normally come thiss cheap, and a whole host of kids who cost god knows how muchYouth system has been re-vamped to a state where we are starting to bring talent through, a far cry from the miserable state it was in before Rafa.
EDIT: And how can I forget the almost catastrophic freebies he picks up. They don't cost anything in terms of money, but they certainly do cost us points. Pellegrino, Voronin, Degen etc.
[/quote]
Doesn't remotely compare to the money wasted by Mourinho. I'm not particularly defending Rafa. The current state of our club is very worrying and it may be time for a change ... but Rafa has done well by us overall.
[/quote]
Who cares 'how much we got back' (we didn't even get to spend the Keane money), or what they're worth now? (playing for a top four club boosts anyone's value, it's not an achievement)
We're football fans, not accountants. Those signings all flopped on a footballing level, and for that Benitez is solely accountable.
[/quote]
you should also talk about his successes like Xabi Alonso, £10m sold for £30m (third highest fee ever received by a UK club), Reina £6m, Agger £5m, Crouch £6m (sold for £11m), Torres bought for £20m now worth £70m etc etc. overall it is much better than given credit for when you think he has strict budget including the lowest wage bill of the top 4, half of chelsea's or Man utd yet on our day we have a competitive squad and can beat them
[quote author=Mersey86 link=topic=38216.msg1025873#msg1025873 date=1262551388]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=38216.msg1025824#msg1025824 date=1262545712]
Here's a list of flops or people who didn't really impress. More to satisfy my own curiosity really:
Keane £20mGot most of it back, Babel £11.5m, Dossena £8m, Pennant £6.7m, Lucas £6mWorth more than that now, Bellamy £6mWorth more than that now, probably, Sissoko £6mFor a while, looked bvery good, Morientes £5mClass player - didn't settle, Cavalieri £4m (Surely we didn't pay that much for a reserve keeper!?)Can't defend that one Leto £2.5m, Paletta £2m, Josemi £2m, KromkampWe ended up with Arbeloa at no loss, Mark Gonzalez (Not sure how much we paid for him), Kyrgiakos £2M, Carson £1.5mEngland keepers don't normally come thiss cheap, and a whole host of kids who cost god knows how muchYouth system has been re-vamped to a state where we are starting to bring talent through, a far cry from the miserable state it was in before Rafa.
EDIT: And how can I forget the almost catastrophic freebies he picks up. They don't cost anything in terms of money, but they certainly do cost us points. Pellegrino, Voronin, Degen etc.
[/quote]
Doesn't remotely compare to the money wasted by Mourinho. I'm not particularly defending Rafa. The current state of our club is very worrying and it may be time for a change ... but Rafa has done well by us overall.
[/quote]
Who cares 'how much we got back' (we didn't even get to spend the Keane money), or what they're worth now? (playing for a top four club boosts anyone's value, it's not an achievement)
We're football fans, not accountants. Those signings all flopped on a footballing level, and for that Benitez is solely accountable.
[/quote]
you should also talk about his successes like Xabi Alonso, £10m sold for £30m (third highest fee ever received by a UK club), Reina £6m, Agger £5m, Crouch £6m (sold for £11m), Torres bought for £20m now worth £70m etc etc. overall it is much better than given credit for when you think he has strict budget including the lowest wage bill of the top 4, half of chelsea's or Man utd yet on our day we have a competitive squad and can beat them
Nobody cares what our squad cost and nobody cares what it's worth. We're not challenging for the title this year. I fear for our ability to do so next year. After that, Torres might piss off and Gerrard is on the backside of his career. Fuck the accounting.
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38216.msg1025889#msg1025889 date=1262553108]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38216.msg1025882#msg1025882 date=1262552834]
[quote author=Mersey86 link=topic=38216.msg1025873#msg1025873 date=1262551388]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=38216.msg1025824#msg1025824 date=1262545712]
Here's a list of flops or people who didn't really impress. More to satisfy my own curiosity really:
Keane £20mGot most of it back, Babel £11.5m, Dossena £8m, Pennant £6.7m, Lucas £6mWorth more than that now, Bellamy £6mWorth more than that now, probably, Sissoko £6mFor a while, looked bvery good, Morientes £5mClass player - didn't settle, Cavalieri £4m (Surely we didn't pay that much for a reserve keeper!?)Can't defend that one Leto £2.5m, Paletta £2m, Josemi £2m, KromkampWe ended up with Arbeloa at no loss, Mark Gonzalez (Not sure how much we paid for him), Kyrgiakos £2M, Carson £1.5mEngland keepers don't normally come thiss cheap, and a whole host of kids who cost god knows how muchYouth system has been re-vamped to a state where we are starting to bring talent through, a far cry from the miserable state it was in before Rafa.
EDIT: And how can I forget the almost catastrophic freebies he picks up. They don't cost anything in terms of money, but they certainly do cost us points. Pellegrino, Voronin, Degen etc.
[/quote]
Doesn't remotely compare to the money wasted by Mourinho. I'm not particularly defending Rafa. The current state of our club is very worrying and it may be time for a change ... but Rafa has done well by us overall.
[/quote]
Who cares 'how much we got back' (we didn't even get to spend the Keane money), or what they're worth now? (playing for a top four club boosts anyone's value, it's not an achievement)
We're football fans, not accountants. Those signings all flopped on a footballing level, and for that Benitez is solely accountable.
[/quote]
you should also talk about his successes like Xabi Alonso, £10m sold for £30m (third highest fee ever received by a UK club), Reina £6m, Agger £5m, Crouch £6m (sold for £11m), Torres bought for £20m now worth £70m etc etc. overall it is much better than given credit for when you think he has strict budget including the lowest wage bill of the top 4, half of chelsea's or Man utd yet on our day we have a competitive squad and can beat them
[/quote]
That's all true, but the success/flop ratio isn't in his favour. He's had some cracking signings, obviously - however whether his overall record is good enough is very questionable, especially given the last two years. And after 6 seasons in charge I desire more than to beat United "on our day" - I want silverware
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38216.msg1025882#msg1025882 date=1262552834]
[quote author=Mersey86 link=topic=38216.msg1025873#msg1025873 date=1262551388]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=38216.msg1025824#msg1025824 date=1262545712]
Here's a list of flops or people who didn't really impress. More to satisfy my own curiosity really:
Keane £20mGot most of it back, Babel £11.5m, Dossena £8m, Pennant £6.7m, Lucas £6mWorth more than that now, Bellamy £6mWorth more than that now, probably, Sissoko £6mFor a while, looked bvery good, Morientes £5mClass player - didn't settle, Cavalieri £4m (Surely we didn't pay that much for a reserve keeper!?)Can't defend that one Leto £2.5m, Paletta £2m, Josemi £2m, KromkampWe ended up with Arbeloa at no loss, Mark Gonzalez (Not sure how much we paid for him), Kyrgiakos £2M, Carson £1.5mEngland keepers don't normally come thiss cheap, and a whole host of kids who cost god knows how muchYouth system has been re-vamped to a state where we are starting to bring talent through, a far cry from the miserable state it was in before Rafa.
EDIT: And how can I forget the almost catastrophic freebies he picks up. They don't cost anything in terms of money, but they certainly do cost us points. Pellegrino, Voronin, Degen etc.
[/quote]
Doesn't remotely compare to the money wasted by Mourinho. I'm not particularly defending Rafa. The current state of our club is very worrying and it may be time for a change ... but Rafa has done well by us overall.
[/quote]
Who cares 'how much we got back' (we didn't even get to spend the Keane money), or what they're worth now? (playing for a top four club boosts anyone's value, it's not an achievement)
We're football fans, not accountants. Those signings all flopped on a footballing level, and for that Benitez is solely accountable.
[/quote]
you should also talk about his successes like Xabi Alonso, £10m sold for £30m (third highest fee ever received by a UK club), Reina £6m, Agger £5m, Crouch £6m (sold for £11m), Torres bought for £20m now worth £70m etc etc. overall it is much better than given credit for when you think he has strict budget including the lowest wage bill of the top 4, half of chelsea's or Man utd yet on our day we have a competitive squad and can beat them
[/quote]
That's all true, but the success/flop ratio isn't in his favour. He's had some cracking signings, obviously - however whether his overall record is good enough is very questionable, especially given the last two years. And after 6 seasons in charge I desire more than to beat United "on our day" - I want silverware
How do you know that?
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38216.msg1025904#msg1025904 date=1262555997]
That's all true, but the success/flop ratio isn't in his favour. He's had some cracking signings, obviously - however whether his overall record is good enough is very questionable, especially given the last two years. And after 6 seasons in charge I desire more than to beat United "on our day" - I want silverware
[/quote]
That's fair comment. However, those who are asked to suggest an alternative usually come up with Mourinho - and the players listed in this thread show that he's been worse than Rafa.
That's all true, but the success/flop ratio isn't in his favour. He's had some cracking signings, obviously - however whether his overall record is good enough is very questionable, especially given the last two years. And after 6 seasons in charge I desire more than to beat United "on our day" - I want silverware
[/quote]
That's fair comment. However, those who are asked to suggest an alternative usually come up with Mourinho - and the players listed in this thread show that he's been worse than Rafa.
[quote author=5euros link=topic=38216.msg1025961#msg1025961 date=1262563570]
according to balague maxi is close to joining boca juniors and not liverpool as he is eager to impress boss maradona with the World cup round the corner
[/quote]
Yes, we did that about five pages ago :-*
regards
according to balague maxi is close to joining boca juniors and not liverpool as he is eager to impress boss maradona with the World cup round the corner
[/quote]
Yes, we did that about five pages ago :-*
regards
[quote author=5euros link=topic=38216.msg1025961#msg1025961 date=1262563570]
according to balague maxi is close to joining boca juniors and not liverpool as he is eager to impress boss maradona with the World cup round the corner
[/quote]
I don't know whether Ballague is right or not but the idea that he wouldn't be able to attract sufficient attention by playing in the same team as the current Argentinian captain is a bit daft.
according to balague maxi is close to joining boca juniors and not liverpool as he is eager to impress boss maradona with the World cup round the corner
[/quote]
I don't know whether Ballague is right or not but the idea that he wouldn't be able to attract sufficient attention by playing in the same team as the current Argentinian captain is a bit daft.
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=38216.msg1025974#msg1025974 date=1262565301]
[quote author=5euros link=topic=38216.msg1025961#msg1025961 date=1262563570]
according to balague maxi is close to joining boca juniors and not liverpool as he is eager to impress boss maradona with the World cup round the corner
[/quote]
I don't know whether Ballague is right or not but the idea that he wouldn't be able to attract sufficient attention by playing in the same team as the current Argentinian captain is a bit daft.
[/quote]
Precisely.
Even Insua gets a go.
[quote author=5euros link=topic=38216.msg1025961#msg1025961 date=1262563570]
according to balague maxi is close to joining boca juniors and not liverpool as he is eager to impress boss maradona with the World cup round the corner
[/quote]
I don't know whether Ballague is right or not but the idea that he wouldn't be able to attract sufficient attention by playing in the same team as the current Argentinian captain is a bit daft.
[/quote]
Precisely.
Even Insua gets a go.
S
Squiggles
Guest
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[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38216.msg1025882#msg1025882 date=1262552834]
[quote author=Mersey86 link=topic=38216.msg1025873#msg1025873 date=1262551388]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=38216.msg1025824#msg1025824 date=1262545712]
Here's a list of flops or people who didn't really impress. More to satisfy my own curiosity really:
Keane £20mGot most of it back, Babel £11.5m, Dossena £8m, Pennant £6.7m, Lucas £6mWorth more than that now, Bellamy £6mWorth more than that now, probably, Sissoko £6mFor a while, looked bvery good, Morientes £5mClass player - didn't settle, Cavalieri £4m (Surely we didn't pay that much for a reserve keeper!?)Can't defend that one Leto £2.5m, Paletta £2m, Josemi £2m, KromkampWe ended up with Arbeloa at no loss, Mark Gonzalez (Not sure how much we paid for him), Kyrgiakos £2M, Carson £1.5mEngland keepers don't normally come thiss cheap, and a whole host of kids who cost god knows how muchYouth system has been re-vamped to a state where we are starting to bring talent through, a far cry from the miserable state it was in before Rafa.
EDIT: And how can I forget the almost catastrophic freebies he picks up. They don't cost anything in terms of money, but they certainly do cost us points. Pellegrino, Voronin, Degen etc.
[/quote]
Doesn't remotely compare to the money wasted by Mourinho. I'm not particularly defending Rafa. The current state of our club is very worrying and it may be time for a change ... but Rafa has done well by us overall.
[/quote]
Who cares 'how much we got back' (we didn't even get to spend the Keane money), or what they're worth now? (playing for a top four club boosts anyone's value, it's not an achievement)
We're football fans, not accountants. Those signings all flopped on a footballing level, and for that Benitez is solely accountable.
[/quote]
"Solely" is OTT. It wasn't his fault that (for example) he was blocked when he tried to sign Dani Alves and had to settle for taking a punt on Pennant to fill a gaping hole at RM, or when a deal to sign Aaron Ramsey for peanuts got snarled up in the boardroom.
However, I would tend to agree with the criticism earlier in the thread that, in such circs, Rafa should have saved the money and gone for quality (where, Keane admittedly aside, his record is a lot better) instead of quantity. That's where his record lets him down.
[quote author=Mersey86 link=topic=38216.msg1025873#msg1025873 date=1262551388]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=38216.msg1025824#msg1025824 date=1262545712]
Here's a list of flops or people who didn't really impress. More to satisfy my own curiosity really:
Keane £20mGot most of it back, Babel £11.5m, Dossena £8m, Pennant £6.7m, Lucas £6mWorth more than that now, Bellamy £6mWorth more than that now, probably, Sissoko £6mFor a while, looked bvery good, Morientes £5mClass player - didn't settle, Cavalieri £4m (Surely we didn't pay that much for a reserve keeper!?)Can't defend that one Leto £2.5m, Paletta £2m, Josemi £2m, KromkampWe ended up with Arbeloa at no loss, Mark Gonzalez (Not sure how much we paid for him), Kyrgiakos £2M, Carson £1.5mEngland keepers don't normally come thiss cheap, and a whole host of kids who cost god knows how muchYouth system has been re-vamped to a state where we are starting to bring talent through, a far cry from the miserable state it was in before Rafa.
EDIT: And how can I forget the almost catastrophic freebies he picks up. They don't cost anything in terms of money, but they certainly do cost us points. Pellegrino, Voronin, Degen etc.
[/quote]
Doesn't remotely compare to the money wasted by Mourinho. I'm not particularly defending Rafa. The current state of our club is very worrying and it may be time for a change ... but Rafa has done well by us overall.
[/quote]
Who cares 'how much we got back' (we didn't even get to spend the Keane money), or what they're worth now? (playing for a top four club boosts anyone's value, it's not an achievement)
We're football fans, not accountants. Those signings all flopped on a footballing level, and for that Benitez is solely accountable.
[/quote]
"Solely" is OTT. It wasn't his fault that (for example) he was blocked when he tried to sign Dani Alves and had to settle for taking a punt on Pennant to fill a gaping hole at RM, or when a deal to sign Aaron Ramsey for peanuts got snarled up in the boardroom.
However, I would tend to agree with the criticism earlier in the thread that, in such circs, Rafa should have saved the money and gone for quality (where, Keane admittedly aside, his record is a lot better) instead of quantity. That's where his record lets him down.
Spanish newspaper AS claims this morning that Maxi Rodriguez is desperate for a move to Liverpool and would take a pay cut to join the Premier League side.
The Argentine midfielder was linked with a transfer to Liverpool at the end of last week and the rumours have been further fuelled by the fact he did not play in Atletico Madrid ’s 2-1 win over Sevilla on Saturday.
Rodriguez is eager to join Liverpool and play enough first team football to make sure he plays enough first team football to secure a place in Diego Maradona’s World Cup squad.
Liverpool are reportedly leading the chase for the right-sided midfielder, Boca Juniors are also interested and AS claims Juventus may also make a move.
Rafa Benitez needs to offload either Andrea Dossena or Andriy Voronin to raise the cash to sign Maxi Rodriguez and the player is willing to lower his wage demands if he can sign a short term deal at Anfield.
The 29-year-old midfielder earns five million euros gross at Atletico Madrid but should be relatively expensive for Liverpool or any of the other clubs interested as he is out of contract at the end of the campaign
The Argentine midfielder was linked with a transfer to Liverpool at the end of last week and the rumours have been further fuelled by the fact he did not play in Atletico Madrid ’s 2-1 win over Sevilla on Saturday.
Rodriguez is eager to join Liverpool and play enough first team football to make sure he plays enough first team football to secure a place in Diego Maradona’s World Cup squad.
Liverpool are reportedly leading the chase for the right-sided midfielder, Boca Juniors are also interested and AS claims Juventus may also make a move.
Rafa Benitez needs to offload either Andrea Dossena or Andriy Voronin to raise the cash to sign Maxi Rodriguez and the player is willing to lower his wage demands if he can sign a short term deal at Anfield.
The 29-year-old midfielder earns five million euros gross at Atletico Madrid but should be relatively expensive for Liverpool or any of the other clubs interested as he is out of contract at the end of the campaign
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