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Mascherano to sign a new contract this week?

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[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34708.msg905684#msg905684 date=1247583714]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905656#msg905656 date=1247578876]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905643#msg905643 date=1247577301]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up. If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists. Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent. He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
[/quote]

I don't think you need 'rubbish facts to back it up', Masher's made far less passes and you only have to watch him play to see that the majority of his play is based on just doing the simple things. Nowt wrong with that, but occasionally his play can be sloppy too and he's nowhere near as ambitious or able with his passing as Xabi is.

Alonso is by far a more clinical, specialist passer, you don't need stats to back that up. His passes are penetrative from a deeper role and position than Xavi's, that's why he doesn't get many direct assists, it's his role at the start of such moves that's of massive importance.

What's the point in comparing him to Xavi when his play is usually 10-20 yards deeper?

It doesn't take a genius to appreciate and recognise how important Xabi is to our attacking play, even if it doesn't have a direct impact in terms of assists.
[/quote]

To be fair. (and this isnt really directed at anyone in particular) I for one am sick of hearing about how 'were nothing without Xabi' and 'we wont win the league without Xabi' and 'Were half a team without him' and 'Its the end of the fucking world if he leaves and takes his long balls with him'

Here's our LAST 5 results without Xabi in the side
PORTSMOUTH 2 - 3 LIVERPOOL
CITY 1 - 1 LIVERPOOL
MANCHESTER UNITED 1 - 4 LIVERPOOL
WEST HAM 0 - 3 LIVERPOOL
WESTBROM 0 - 2 LIVERPOOL

Pts - 13

Soooooo.....Not fucking bad then eh?

I like Xabi, but the way people go on on here, he's more important than Gerrard and fucking Torres. He isnt, he's a good passer who spreads play without scoring or creating goals for his team mates. THATS IT.
He keeps possession superbly well, but then so does Riera (who also passes well).

I wish youd all shut up, your making me want him to leave just to show these One man team fuckers that we arent and even if we were it wouldnt be fucking Xabi Alonso.

We'll be fine when he leaves, he doesnt create or control our tempo!! Someone just said that once and now people regurgitate it willy nilly. He's great, he isnt the be all and end all, and all this gnashing of teeth and biting of fingernails is making me look on perplexed and ever so slightly amused.


[/quote]

I generally agree Oncy, I was just arguing the toss over the difference between Alonso and Masher and the pointlessness of taking stats at face value.

I wouldn't say we're THAT reliant on Xabi, but he does help keep the play moving in the middle of the park and is composed and controlled in his play, he helps dictate the tempo which is a difficult quality to replace.

It's not the end of the World if he goes though, we've lost and replaced better players.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905692#msg905692 date=1247584232]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34708.msg905684#msg905684 date=1247583714]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905656#msg905656 date=1247578876]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905643#msg905643 date=1247577301]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up. If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists. Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent. He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
[/quote]

I don't think you need 'rubbish facts to back it up', Masher's made far less passes and you only have to watch him play to see that the majority of his play is based on just doing the simple things. Nowt wrong with that, but occasionally his play can be sloppy too and he's nowhere near as ambitious or able with his passing as Xabi is.

Alonso is by far a more clinical, specialist passer, you don't need stats to back that up. His passes are penetrative from a deeper role and position than Xavi's, that's why he doesn't get many direct assists, it's his role at the start of such moves that's of massive importance.

What's the point in comparing him to Xavi when his play is usually 10-20 yards deeper?

It doesn't take a genius to appreciate and recognise how important Xabi is to our attacking play, even if it doesn't have a direct impact in terms of assists.
[/quote]

To be fair. (and this isnt really directed at anyone in particular) I for one am sick of hearing about how 'were nothing without Xabi' and 'we wont win the league without Xabi' and 'Were half a team without him' and 'Its the end of the fucking world if he leaves and takes his long balls with him'

Here's our LAST 5 results without Xabi in the side
PORTSMOUTH 2 - 3 LIVERPOOL
CITY 1 - 1 LIVERPOOL
MANCHESTER UNITED 1 - 4 LIVERPOOL
WEST HAM 0 - 3 LIVERPOOL
WESTBROM 0 - 2 LIVERPOOL

Pts - 13

Soooooo.....Not fucking bad then eh?

I like Xabi, but the way people go on on here, he's more important than Gerrard and fucking Torres. He isnt, he's a good passer who spreads play without scoring or creating goals for his team mates. THATS IT.
He keeps possession superbly well, but then so does Riera (who also passes well).

I wish youd all shut up, your making me want him to leave just to show these One man team fuckers that we arent and even if we were it wouldnt be fucking Xabi Alonso.

We'll be fine when he leaves, he doesnt create or control our tempo!! Someone just said that once and now people regurgitate it willy nilly. He's great, he isnt the be all and end all, and all this gnashing of teeth and biting of fingernails is making me look on perplexed and ever so slightly amused.


[/quote]

I generally agree Oncy, I was just arguing the toss over the difference between Alonso and Masher and the pointlessness of taking stats at face value.

I wouldn't say we're THAT reliant on Xabi, but he does help keep the play moving in the middle of the park and is composed and controlled in his play, he helps dictate the tempo which is a difficult quality to replace.

It's not the end of the World if he goes though, we've lost and replaced better players.
[/quote]

Yeah, the way its spun on here though is that he is THE ONLY proffessional footballer who can actually pass a football. Im not sure about all this tempo bollocks either. He gets the ball and he looks for the best pass and he passes it. Thats it. Thats what a Xabi does. He doesnt hurt you, he doesnt win games, he doesnt even stop you losing games. He just passes well. Which is fine. But im sick of hearing how he's fucking unique and that we must all abandon hope if he leaves. NA fuck that, we'll just get another footballer who can pass the ball. THERES FUCKING MILLIONS OF THEM!
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34708.msg905684#msg905684 date=1247583714]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905656#msg905656 date=1247578876]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905643#msg905643 date=1247577301]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up. If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists. Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent. He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
[/quote]

I don't think you need 'rubbish facts to back it up', Masher's made far less passes and you only have to watch him play to see that the majority of his play is based on just doing the simple things. Nowt wrong with that, but occasionally his play can be sloppy too and he's nowhere near as ambitious or able with his passing as Xabi is.

Alonso is by far a more clinical, specialist passer, you don't need stats to back that up. His passes are penetrative from a deeper role and position than Xavi's, that's why he doesn't get many direct assists, it's his role at the start of such moves that's of massive importance.

What's the point in comparing him to Xavi when his play is usually 10-20 yards deeper?

It doesn't take a genius to appreciate and recognise how important Xabi is to our attacking play, even if it doesn't have a direct impact in terms of assists.
[/quote]

To be fair. (and this isnt really directed at anyone in particular) I for one am sick of hearing about how 'were nothing without Xabi' and 'we wont win the league without Xabi' and 'Were half a team without him' and 'Its the end of the fucking world if he leaves and takes his long balls with him'

Here's our LAST 5 results without Xabi in the side
PORTSMOUTH 2 - 3 LIVERPOOL
CITY 1 - 1 LIVERPOOL
MANCHESTER UNITED 1 - 4 LIVERPOOL
WEST HAM 0 - 3 LIVERPOOL
WESTBROM 0 - 2 LIVERPOOL

Pts - 13

Soooooo.....Not fucking bad then eh?

I like Xabi, but the way people go on on here, he's more important than Gerrard and fucking Torres. He isnt, he's a good passer who spreads play without scoring or creating goals for his team mates. THATS IT.
He keeps possession superbly well, but then so does Riera (who also passes well).

I wish youd all shut up, your making me want him to leave just to show these One man team fuckers that we arent and even if we were it wouldnt be fucking Xabi Alonso.

We'll be fine when he leaves, he doesnt create or control our tempo!! Someone just said that once and now people regurgitate it willy nilly. He's great, he isnt the be all and end all, and all this gnashing of teeth and biting of fingernails is making me look on perplexed and ever so slightly amused.


[/quote]

Riera couldn't control a midfield or orchestrate our play like Xabi though. Alonso is our metronome and will be a big loss. Of course not a loss like Gerrad or Torres would be but still a big big loss.
Another concern is the fact we start most attacks through him. The Centre Halves give him the ball, he is always showing and is an outlet for them. Hope our centre backs don't find themselves kicking it long thus bypassing the midfield. Suppose Agger playing will help eliminate that.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=34708.msg905698#msg905698 date=1247585306]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34708.msg905684#msg905684 date=1247583714]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905656#msg905656 date=1247578876]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905643#msg905643 date=1247577301]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up. If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists. Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent. He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
[/quote]

I don't think you need 'rubbish facts to back it up', Masher's made far less passes and you only have to watch him play to see that the majority of his play is based on just doing the simple things. Nowt wrong with that, but occasionally his play can be sloppy too and he's nowhere near as ambitious or able with his passing as Xabi is.

Alonso is by far a more clinical, specialist passer, you don't need stats to back that up. His passes are penetrative from a deeper role and position than Xavi's, that's why he doesn't get many direct assists, it's his role at the start of such moves that's of massive importance.

What's the point in comparing him to Xavi when his play is usually 10-20 yards deeper?

It doesn't take a genius to appreciate and recognise how important Xabi is to our attacking play, even if it doesn't have a direct impact in terms of assists.
[/quote]

To be fair. (and this isnt really directed at anyone in particular) I for one am sick of hearing about how 'were nothing without Xabi' and 'we wont win the league without Xabi' and 'Were half a team without him' and 'Its the end of the fucking world if he leaves and takes his long balls with him'

Here's our LAST 5 results without Xabi in the side
PORTSMOUTH 2 - 3 LIVERPOOL
CITY 1 - 1 LIVERPOOL
MANCHESTER UNITED 1 - 4 LIVERPOOL
WEST HAM 0 - 3 LIVERPOOL
WESTBROM 0 - 2 LIVERPOOL

Pts - 13

Soooooo.....Not fucking bad then eh?

I like Xabi, but the way people go on on here, he's more important than Gerrard and fucking Torres. He isnt, he's a good passer who spreads play without scoring or creating goals for his team mates. THATS IT.
He keeps possession superbly well, but then so does Riera (who also passes well).

I wish youd all shut up, your making me want him to leave just to show these One man team fuckers that we arent and even if we were it wouldnt be fucking Xabi Alonso.

We'll be fine when he leaves, he doesnt create or control our tempo!! Someone just said that once and now people regurgitate it willy nilly. He's great, he isnt the be all and end all, and all this gnashing of teeth and biting of fingernails is making me look on perplexed and ever so slightly amused.


[/quote]

Riera couldn't control a midfield or orchestrate our play like Xabi though. Alonso is our metronome and will be a big loss. Of course not a loss like Gerrad or Torres would be but still a big big loss.
Another concern is the fact we start most attacks through him. The Centre Halves give him the ball, he is always showing and is an outlet for them. Hope our centre backs don't find themselves kicking it long thus bypassing the midfield. Suppose Agger playing will help eliminate that.
[/quote]So who 'orchestrated' the attacks for the 13 goals in 5 games at the end of last season then? Im not saying he wont be missed, hes a good player, but hes been WAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaayyy overhyped on here. Even your post to me is way over the top.
 
5 stages of grief

1) Denial:
'alonso can't be leaving' 'it's press bullshit'

2) Anger:
'Why is xabi leaving? It's not fair! How can this happen?!' Who is to blame?!' 'FUCK HIM!'

3) Bargaining:
'c'mon xabi just give us one more year'

4) Depression:
'we're fucked without him' 'we wont be able to replace a midfielder of his class' 'kiss number 19 goodbye'

5) Acceptance:
'well, we can't fight it, I may as well prepare for it.'
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34708.msg905700#msg905700 date=1247585470]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=34708.msg905698#msg905698 date=1247585306]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34708.msg905684#msg905684 date=1247583714]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905656#msg905656 date=1247578876]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905643#msg905643 date=1247577301]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up.  If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists.  Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent.  He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
[/quote]

I don't think you need 'rubbish facts to back it up', Masher's made far less passes and you only have to watch him play to see that the majority of his play is based on just doing the simple things. Nowt wrong with that, but occasionally his play can be sloppy too and he's nowhere near as ambitious or able with his passing as Xabi is.

Alonso is by far a more clinical, specialist passer, you don't need stats to back that up. His passes are penetrative from a deeper role and position than Xavi's, that's why he doesn't get many direct assists, it's his role at the start of such moves that's of massive importance.

What's the point in comparing him to Xavi when his play is usually 10-20 yards deeper? 

It doesn't take a genius to appreciate and recognise how important Xabi is to our attacking play, even if it doesn't have a direct impact in terms of assists.
[/quote]

To be fair. (and this isnt really directed at anyone in particular) I for one am sick of hearing about how 'were nothing without Xabi' and 'we wont win the league without Xabi' and 'Were half a team without him' and 'Its the end of the fucking world if he leaves and takes his long balls with him'

Here's our LAST 5 results without Xabi in the side
PORTSMOUTH 2 - 3 LIVERPOOL
CITY 1 - 1 LIVERPOOL
MANCHESTER UNITED 1 - 4 LIVERPOOL
WEST HAM 0 - 3 LIVERPOOL
WESTBROM 0 - 2 LIVERPOOL

Pts - 13

Soooooo.....Not fucking bad then eh?

I like Xabi, but the way people go on on here, he's more important than Gerrard and fucking Torres. He isnt, he's a good passer who spreads play without scoring or creating goals for his team mates. THATS IT.
He keeps possession superbly well, but then so does Riera (who also passes well).

I wish youd all shut up, your making me want him to leave just to show these One man team fuckers that we arent and even if we were it wouldnt be fucking Xabi Alonso.

We'll be fine when he leaves, he doesnt create or control our tempo!! Someone just said that once and now people regurgitate it willy nilly. He's great, he isnt the be all and end all, and all this gnashing of teeth and biting of fingernails is making me look on perplexed and ever so slightly amused.


[/quote]

Riera couldn't control a midfield or orchestrate our play like Xabi though. Alonso is our metronome and will be a big loss. Of course not a loss like Gerrad or Torres would be but still a big big loss.
Another concern is the fact we start most attacks through him. The Centre Halves give him the ball, he is always showing and is an outlet for them. Hope our centre backs don't find themselves kicking it long thus bypassing the midfield. Suppose Agger playing will help eliminate that.
[/quote]So who 'orchestrated' the attacks for the 13 goals in 5 games at the end of last season then? Im not saying he wont be missed, hes a good player, but hes been WAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaayyy overhyped on here. Even your post to me is way over the top.
[/quote]

Just think you're being overly harsh on him to begin with, which probably led me to my slighty (if not at all)sensationalist retort. You compared him to Riera due to ball rentention and passing abilities. A bit of a stretch don't ya think. Riera couldnt dictate or control a midfield which I think Xabi can do.

How is my post OTT. I said he will be a loss. He will.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=34708.msg905708#msg905708 date=1247585888]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34708.msg905700#msg905700 date=1247585470]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=34708.msg905698#msg905698 date=1247585306]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34708.msg905684#msg905684 date=1247583714]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905656#msg905656 date=1247578876]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905643#msg905643 date=1247577301]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up. If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists. Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent. He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
[/quote]

I don't think you need 'rubbish facts to back it up', Masher's made far less passes and you only have to watch him play to see that the majority of his play is based on just doing the simple things. Nowt wrong with that, but occasionally his play can be sloppy too and he's nowhere near as ambitious or able with his passing as Xabi is.

Alonso is by far a more clinical, specialist passer, you don't need stats to back that up. His passes are penetrative from a deeper role and position than Xavi's, that's why he doesn't get many direct assists, it's his role at the start of such moves that's of massive importance.

What's the point in comparing him to Xavi when his play is usually 10-20 yards deeper?

It doesn't take a genius to appreciate and recognise how important Xabi is to our attacking play, even if it doesn't have a direct impact in terms of assists.
[/quote]

To be fair. (and this isnt really directed at anyone in particular) I for one am sick of hearing about how 'were nothing without Xabi' and 'we wont win the league without Xabi' and 'Were half a team without him' and 'Its the end of the fucking world if he leaves and takes his long balls with him'

Here's our LAST 5 results without Xabi in the side
PORTSMOUTH 2 - 3 LIVERPOOL
CITY 1 - 1 LIVERPOOL
MANCHESTER UNITED 1 - 4 LIVERPOOL
WEST HAM 0 - 3 LIVERPOOL
WESTBROM 0 - 2 LIVERPOOL

Pts - 13

Soooooo.....Not fucking bad then eh?

I like Xabi, but the way people go on on here, he's more important than Gerrard and fucking Torres. He isnt, he's a good passer who spreads play without scoring or creating goals for his team mates. THATS IT.
He keeps possession superbly well, but then so does Riera (who also passes well).

I wish youd all shut up, your making me want him to leave just to show these One man team fuckers that we arent and even if we were it wouldnt be fucking Xabi Alonso.

We'll be fine when he leaves, he doesnt create or control our tempo!! Someone just said that once and now people regurgitate it willy nilly. He's great, he isnt the be all and end all, and all this gnashing of teeth and biting of fingernails is making me look on perplexed and ever so slightly amused.


[/quote]

Riera couldn't control a midfield or orchestrate our play like Xabi though. Alonso is our metronome and will be a big loss. Of course not a loss like Gerrad or Torres would be but still a big big loss.
Another concern is the fact we start most attacks through him. The Centre Halves give him the ball, he is always showing and is an outlet for them. Hope our centre backs don't find themselves kicking it long thus bypassing the midfield. Suppose Agger playing will help eliminate that.
[/quote]So who 'orchestrated' the attacks for the 13 goals in 5 games at the end of last season then? Im not saying he wont be missed, hes a good player, but hes been WAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaayyy overhyped on here. Even your post to me is way over the top.
[/quote]

Just think you're being overly harsh on him to begin with, which probably led me to my slighty (if not at all)sensationalist retort. You compared him to Riera due to ball rentention and passing abilities. A bit of a stretch don't ya think. Riera couldnt dictate our control a midfield which I think Xabi can do.

How is my post OTT. I said he will be a loss. He will.


[/quote]I dunno mate. Im just fucking sick of the whole thing. But mostly the canonisation of St.xabi, you'd think we never won a game without him. Im probably being unfair to him, he is a terrific footballer and i voted him player of the season. But in 3 years we've won fuck all. The United fans are LESS bothered about Ronaldo leaving than we are about Xabi, and that cunts just won them 3 league titles. I just want perspective.
 
If we can get someone in that is an equally good passer of the ball, but maybe even more dynamic and mobile. We could come out of this even stronger.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=34708.msg905698#msg905698 date=1247585306]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34708.msg905684#msg905684 date=1247583714]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905656#msg905656 date=1247578876]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905643#msg905643 date=1247577301]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up.  If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists.  Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent.  He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
[/quote]

I don't think you need 'rubbish facts to back it up', Masher's made far less passes and you only have to watch him play to see that the majority of his play is based on just doing the simple things. Nowt wrong with that, but occasionally his play can be sloppy too and he's nowhere near as ambitious or able with his passing as Xabi is.

Alonso is by far a more clinical, specialist passer, you don't need stats to back that up. His passes are penetrative from a deeper role and position than Xavi's, that's why he doesn't get many direct assists, it's his role at the start of such moves that's of massive importance.

What's the point in comparing him to Xavi when his play is usually 10-20 yards deeper? 

It doesn't take a genius to appreciate and recognise how important Xabi is to our attacking play, even if it doesn't have a direct impact in terms of assists.
[/quote]

To be fair. (and this isnt really directed at anyone in particular) I for one am sick of hearing about how 'were nothing without Xabi' and 'we wont win the league without Xabi' and 'Were half a team without him' and 'Its the end of the fucking world if he leaves and takes his long balls with him'

Here's our LAST 5 results without Xabi in the side
PORTSMOUTH 2 - 3 LIVERPOOL
CITY 1 - 1 LIVERPOOL
MANCHESTER UNITED 1 - 4 LIVERPOOL
WEST HAM 0 - 3 LIVERPOOL
WESTBROM 0 - 2 LIVERPOOL

Pts - 13

Soooooo.....Not fucking bad then eh?

I like Xabi, but the way people go on on here, he's more important than Gerrard and fucking Torres. He isnt, he's a good passer who spreads play without scoring or creating goals for his team mates. THATS IT.
He keeps possession superbly well, but then so does Riera (who also passes well).

I wish youd all shut up, your making me want him to leave just to show these One man team fuckers that we arent and even if we were it wouldnt be fucking Xabi Alonso.

We'll be fine when he leaves, he doesnt create or control our tempo!! Someone just said that once and now people regurgitate it willy nilly. He's great, he isnt the be all and end all, and all this gnashing of teeth and biting of fingernails is making me look on perplexed and ever so slightly amused.


[/quote]

Riera couldn't control a midfield or orchestrate our play like Xabi though. Alonso is our metronome and will be a big loss. Of course not a loss like Gerrad or Torres would be but still a big big loss.
Another concern is the fact we start most attacks through him. The Centre Halves give him the ball, he is always showing and is an outlet for them. Hope our centre backs don't find themselves kicking it long thus bypassing the midfield. Suppose Agger playing will help eliminate that.
[/quote]

Up to a point maybe, but his passing is going to have get a lot better before it makes a real difference.  We're still going to need someone there - whether it's Xabi or a replacement - who can pass a lot better than Agger can.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34708.msg905724#msg905724 date=1247588263]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=34708.msg905698#msg905698 date=1247585306]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34708.msg905684#msg905684 date=1247583714]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905656#msg905656 date=1247578876]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905643#msg905643 date=1247577301]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up. If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists. Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent. He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
[/quote]

I don't think you need 'rubbish facts to back it up', Masher's made far less passes and you only have to watch him play to see that the majority of his play is based on just doing the simple things. Nowt wrong with that, but occasionally his play can be sloppy too and he's nowhere near as ambitious or able with his passing as Xabi is.

Alonso is by far a more clinical, specialist passer, you don't need stats to back that up. His passes are penetrative from a deeper role and position than Xavi's, that's why he doesn't get many direct assists, it's his role at the start of such moves that's of massive importance.

What's the point in comparing him to Xavi when his play is usually 10-20 yards deeper?

It doesn't take a genius to appreciate and recognise how important Xabi is to our attacking play, even if it doesn't have a direct impact in terms of assists.
[/quote]

To be fair. (and this isnt really directed at anyone in particular) I for one am sick of hearing about how 'were nothing without Xabi' and 'we wont win the league without Xabi' and 'Were half a team without him' and 'Its the end of the fucking world if he leaves and takes his long balls with him'

Here's our LAST 5 results without Xabi in the side
PORTSMOUTH 2 - 3 LIVERPOOL
CITY 1 - 1 LIVERPOOL
MANCHESTER UNITED 1 - 4 LIVERPOOL
WEST HAM 0 - 3 LIVERPOOL
WESTBROM 0 - 2 LIVERPOOL

Pts - 13

Soooooo.....Not fucking bad then eh?

I like Xabi, but the way people go on on here, he's more important than Gerrard and fucking Torres. He isnt, he's a good passer who spreads play without scoring or creating goals for his team mates. THATS IT.
He keeps possession superbly well, but then so does Riera (who also passes well).

I wish youd all shut up, your making me want him to leave just to show these One man team fuckers that we arent and even if we were it wouldnt be fucking Xabi Alonso.

We'll be fine when he leaves, he doesnt create or control our tempo!! Someone just said that once and now people regurgitate it willy nilly. He's great, he isnt the be all and end all, and all this gnashing of teeth and biting of fingernails is making me look on perplexed and ever so slightly amused.


[/quote]

Riera couldn't control a midfield or orchestrate our play like Xabi though. Alonso is our metronome and will be a big loss. Of course not a loss like Gerrad or Torres would be but still a big big loss.
Another concern is the fact we start most attacks through him. The Centre Halves give him the ball, he is always showing and is an outlet for them. Hope our centre backs don't find themselves kicking it long thus bypassing the midfield. Suppose Agger playing will help eliminate that.
[/quote]

Up to a point maybe, but his passing is going to have get a lot better before it makes a real difference. We're still going to need someone there - whether it's Xabi or a replacement - who can pass a lot better than Agger can.
[/quote]

Obviously yeah. I like how Xabi takes the ball of the centre halves rather than the onus on them to distribute every time.
 
Mascherano is irreplaceable and is a specialist in the game. Very few like him in the world. Passers can be found, they not be blockbuster 60 yarders like Alonso's but do a more effective job.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905656#msg905656 date=1247578876]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905643#msg905643 date=1247577301]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up. If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists. Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent. He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
[/quote]

I don't think you need 'rubbish facts to back it up', Masher's made far less passes and you only have to watch him play to see that the majority of his play is based on just doing the simple things. Nowt wrong with that, but occasionally his play can be sloppy too and he's nowhere near as ambitious or able with his passing as Xabi is.

So to the point of consistency?

Alonso is by far a more clinical, specialist passer, you don't need stats to back that up.
Are you attempting to refute a point that was neither made contended?

His passes are penetrative from a deeper role and position than Xavi's, that's why he doesn't get many direct assists, it's his role at the start of such moves that's of massive importance.

What's the point in comparing him to Xavi when his play is usually 10-20 yards deeper Or Mascherano who doesn't play as a playmaker and doesn't have ginger facial hair 😛?

The statement was made that he was a penetrative passer. It's just not true. His passes are a hand-off to Gerrard, sideways or spreading play. The point of the comparison to Xavi was because Xavi in when you watch him and when you look at his stats is a penetrative passer.

You can redefine penetrative passing all you want, but someone who was 3 more assists than Pepe and 1 more than Lucas, does not qualify for me. Sorry!




It doesn't take a genius to appreciate and recognise how important Xabi is to our attacking play, even if it doesn't have a direct impact in terms of assists.

And again who said otherwise, although you would be more accurate to say in setting up our attacking play because that's all he does for our attacks. Gets it to someone who then attacks. Well apart from hanging on the edge of the box where he brings his 23% shooting accuracy into play (lower than everyone except Skrtel don't ya know)
[/quote]

He's a great playmaker but that's all. If you think that is enough then you'll think he's brilliant. If you think a midfielder needs to be able to do more, you won't be suffering from multiple xabigasms which seems to cloud so many peoples judgement.

Que sera sera!
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34708.msg905684#msg905684 date=1247583714]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905656#msg905656 date=1247578876]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905643#msg905643 date=1247577301]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up. If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists. Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent. He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
[/quote]

I don't think you need 'rubbish facts to back it up', Masher's made far less passes and you only have to watch him play to see that the majority of his play is based on just doing the simple things. Nowt wrong with that, but occasionally his play can be sloppy too and he's nowhere near as ambitious or able with his passing as Xabi is.

Alonso is by far a more clinical, specialist passer, you don't need stats to back that up. His passes are penetrative from a deeper role and position than Xavi's, that's why he doesn't get many direct assists, it's his role at the start of such moves that's of massive importance.

What's the point in comparing him to Xavi when his play is usually 10-20 yards deeper?

It doesn't take a genius to appreciate and recognise how important Xabi is to our attacking play, even if it doesn't have a direct impact in terms of assists.
[/quote]

To be fair. (and this isnt really directed at anyone in particular) I for one am sick of hearing about how 'were nothing without Xabi' and 'we wont win the league without Xabi' and 'Were half a team without him' and 'Its the end of the fucking world if he leaves and takes his long balls with him'

Here's our LAST 5 results without Xabi in the side
PORTSMOUTH 2 - 3 LIVERPOOL
CITY 1 - 1 LIVERPOOL
MANCHESTER UNITED 1 - 4 LIVERPOOL
WEST HAM 0 - 3 LIVERPOOL
WESTBROM 0 - 2 LIVERPOOL

Pts - 13

Soooooo.....Not fucking bad then eh?

I like Xabi, but the way people go on on here, he's more important than Gerrard and fucking Torres. He isnt, he's a good passer who spreads play without scoring or creating goals for his team mates. THATS IT.
He keeps possession superbly well, but then so does Riera (who also passes well).

I wish youd all shut up, your making me want him to leave just to show these One man team fuckers that we arent and even if we were it wouldnt be fucking Xabi Alonso.

We'll be fine when he leaves, he doesnt create or control our tempo!! Someone just said that once and now people regurgitate it willy nilly. He's great, he isnt the be all and end all, and all this gnashing of teeth and biting of fingernails is making me look on perplexed and ever so slightly amused.

[/quote]

*slaps Oncy* .............*on the back*
 
YEAAAAA, Alonso is rubbish!! He was holding us back! He's a trojan horse anyway, when he gets to the Bernabeu Anita is going to climb out of his arse and get all stabby on the first team.
 
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905764#msg905764 date=1247596195]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905656#msg905656 date=1247578876]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905643#msg905643 date=1247577301]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up. If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists. Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent. He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
[/quote]

I don't think you need 'rubbish facts to back it up', Masher's made far less passes and you only have to watch him play to see that the majority of his play is based on just doing the simple things. Nowt wrong with that, but occasionally his play can be sloppy too and he's nowhere near as ambitious or able with his passing as Xabi is.

So to the point of consistency?

Alonso is by far a more clinical, specialist passer, you don't need stats to back that up.
Are you attempting to refute a point that was neither made contended?

His passes are penetrative from a deeper role and position than Xavi's, that's why he doesn't get many direct assists, it's his role at the start of such moves that's of massive importance.

What's the point in comparing him to Xavi when his play is usually 10-20 yards deeper Or Mascherano who doesn't play as a playmaker and doesn't have ginger facial hair 😛?

The statement was made that he was a penetrative passer. It's just not true. His passes are a hand-off to Gerrard, sideways or spreading play. The point of the comparison to Xavi was because Xavi in when you watch him and when you look at his stats is a penetrative passer.

You can redefine penetrative passing all you want, but someone who was 3 more assists than Pepe and 1 more than Lucas, does not qualify for me. Sorry!




It doesn't take a genius to appreciate and recognise how important Xabi is to our attacking play, even if it doesn't have a direct impact in terms of assists.

And again who said otherwise, although you would be more accurate to say in setting up our attacking play because that's all he does for our attacks. Gets it to someone who then attacks. Well apart from hanging on the edge of the box where he brings his 23% shooting accuracy into play (lower than everyone except Skrtel don't ya know)
[/quote]

He's a great playmaker but that's all. If you think that is enough then you'll think he's brilliant. If you think a midfielder needs to be able to do more, you won't be suffering from multiple xabigasms which seems to cloud so many peoples judgement.

Que sera sera!
[/quote]

Hmmm, if you read my other posts I've never suggested he's 'brilliant', certainly not as an all round player anyway.

You were being favourable toward Mascherano, pointing out Xabi's weaknesses statistically.

Masher generally plays the easy ball, so why acknowledge the stats as some kind of proof that he's an able passer (or consistent as you put it)? The stats suggest he's on a par with Alonso, in terms of passes completed, but since when have stats told the whole story?

Regards Xavi, it's a daft comparison because one is a deep lying playmaker who starts the play, the other gets between the lines and probes and picks out those penetrative passes, so one of them is bound to have more chance of assists and therefore look more favourable statistically.

It's a bollocks argument. Stats, as proven time and time again prove fuck all, because football is more complex and far less black and white.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905779#msg905779 date=1247597434]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905764#msg905764 date=1247596195]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905656#msg905656 date=1247578876]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905643#msg905643 date=1247577301]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up. If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists. Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent. He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
[/quote]

I don't think you need 'rubbish facts to back it up', Masher's made far less passes and you only have to watch him play to see that the majority of his play is based on just doing the simple things. Nowt wrong with that, but occasionally his play can be sloppy too and he's nowhere near as ambitious or able with his passing as Xabi is.

So to the point of consistency?

Alonso is by far a more clinical, specialist passer, you don't need stats to back that up.
Are you attempting to refute a point that was neither made contended?

His passes are penetrative from a deeper role and position than Xavi's, that's why he doesn't get many direct assists, it's his role at the start of such moves that's of massive importance.

What's the point in comparing him to Xavi when his play is usually 10-20 yards deeper Or Mascherano who doesn't play as a playmaker and doesn't have ginger facial hair 😛?

The statement was made that he was a penetrative passer. It's just not true. His passes are a hand-off to Gerrard, sideways or spreading play. The point of the comparison to Xavi was because Xavi in when you watch him and when you look at his stats is a penetrative passer.

You can redefine penetrative passing all you want, but someone who was 3 more assists than Pepe and 1 more than Lucas, does not qualify for me. Sorry!




It doesn't take a genius to appreciate and recognise how important Xabi is to our attacking play, even if it doesn't have a direct impact in terms of assists.

And again who said otherwise, although you would be more accurate to say in setting up our attacking play because that's all he does for our attacks. Gets it to someone who then attacks. Well apart from hanging on the edge of the box where he brings his 23% shooting accuracy into play (lower than everyone except Skrtel don't ya know)
[/quote]

He's a great playmaker but that's all. If you think that is enough then you'll think he's brilliant. If you think a midfielder needs to be able to do more, you won't be suffering from multiple xabigasms which seems to cloud so many peoples judgement.

Que sera sera!
[/quote]

Hmmm, if you read my other posts I've never suggested he's 'brilliant', certainly not as an all round player anyway.

Well I was just addressing the point the fanboy made and you appeared to be riding the coat tails of. Xabi's brilliance seemed to be the essence of the piece. If you were unintentionally caught in the over splash of the tarring and feathering I apologize.

You were being favourable toward Mascherano, pointing out Xabi's weaknesses statistically.

No I showed that his passing is 1.5% less consistent than the best passer in the team! Looks like you interpreted it to mean something else. Oh well.

Masher generally plays the easy ball, so why acknowledge the stats as some kind of proof that he's an able passer (or consistent as you put it)? The stats suggest he's on a par with Alonso, in terms of passes completed, but since when have stats told the whole story?

It was about CONSISTENCY not quality. They are different as in not the same. If you choose to read passing % as a measure of quality then have at it.

Regards Xavi, it's a daft comparison because one is a deep lying playmaker who starts the play, the other gets between the lines and probes and picks out those penetrative passes, so one of them is bound to have more chance of assists and therefore look more favourable statistically.

It's not bollocks it's a valid comparison because Xavi does do penetrative passing. Xabi does not, that's why it's valid because the proof of the pudding is in the contrast. It doesn't mean Xavi is better it just means he does them and Xabi does not.

It's a bollocks argument. Stats, as proven time and time again prove fuck all, because football is more complex and far less black and white.

Stats are not crap. People reading more into them is the problem, confusing correlations and causation, yada yada yada . For example you confusing consistency and quality is crap. Not the stats.
[/quote]
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34708.msg905713#msg905713 date=1247586638]
The United fans are LESS bothered about Ronaldo leaving than we are about Xabi, and that cunts just won them 3 league titles.
[/quote]

If they are it's probably because they realise he no longer wanted to play for the club. If the same is true for Alonso then goodbye Xabi as far as I'm concerned. And at least have the bollocks to put in a transfer request - what's the issue with doing that ? Is it because he believes he's entitled to some form of loyalty fee? Well that would be ironic. I no longer want to play for a club but I'd like to be paid for my loyalty. Or is it because he doesn't want to appear like he wants to leave the club? Well, sorry Xabi, but if the only way you 'appear' to not want to leave the club is to actually NOT want to leave. Coming out and saying you're happy to stay at the club will dispel those rumours but you haven't done that ergo it's relatively obvious you do.

And I'm getting a bit sick of people justifying his decision to move on on the basis that 'we' tried to get rid of him. 'We' didn't. Maybe Benitez had plans to do that but the majority of fans I spoke to last year did not want to sacrifice Alonso for Barry. As I've said before the fans make the foundations of this club more than anything else. Without us the football club is pointless. I wish some players would realise that.

Wouldn't it be refreshing for Xabi Alonso to come out and say "Look, Benitez pissed me off last year by trying to sell me for someone who turned out to be nothing more than a run-of-the-mill greedy cunt. I can't work with him anymore - he's going nowhere so it's best I do - so I'd like to move to Real Madrid. Thus I'm throwing in my transfer request"

I wonder also, if Alonso, does actually move to Real how it would be received in his Basque homeland. Didn't the Sociedad fans plead with him not to go to Real when we signed him ?

Personally, I'd like us to keep him because he's an excellent proven Premiership player. If he want's to go then he should do the right thing, hand in the transfer request, fuck off to wherever and move on so the club can move on also and get on with our business.
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=34708.msg905767#msg905767 date=1247596440]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34708.msg905684#msg905684 date=1247583714]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905656#msg905656 date=1247578876]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905643#msg905643 date=1247577301]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up. If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists. Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent. He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
[/quote]

I don't think you need 'rubbish facts to back it up', Masher's made far less passes and you only have to watch him play to see that the majority of his play is based on just doing the simple things. Nowt wrong with that, but occasionally his play can be sloppy too and he's nowhere near as ambitious or able with his passing as Xabi is.

Alonso is by far a more clinical, specialist passer, you don't need stats to back that up. His passes are penetrative from a deeper role and position than Xavi's, that's why he doesn't get many direct assists, it's his role at the start of such moves that's of massive importance.

What's the point in comparing him to Xavi when his play is usually 10-20 yards deeper?

It doesn't take a genius to appreciate and recognise how important Xabi is to our attacking play, even if it doesn't have a direct impact in terms of assists.
[/quote]

To be fair. (and this isnt really directed at anyone in particular) I for one am sick of hearing about how 'were nothing without Xabi' and 'we wont win the league without Xabi' and 'Were half a team without him' and 'Its the end of the fucking world if he leaves and takes his long balls with him'

Here's our LAST 5 results without Xabi in the side
PORTSMOUTH 2 - 3 LIVERPOOL
CITY 1 - 1 LIVERPOOL
MANCHESTER UNITED 1 - 4 LIVERPOOL
WEST HAM 0 - 3 LIVERPOOL
WESTBROM 0 - 2 LIVERPOOL

Pts - 13

Soooooo.....Not fucking bad then eh?

I like Xabi, but the way people go on on here, he's more important than Gerrard and fucking Torres. He isnt, he's a good passer who spreads play without scoring or creating goals for his team mates. THATS IT.
He keeps possession superbly well, but then so does Riera (who also passes well).

I wish youd all shut up, your making me want him to leave just to show these One man team fuckers that we arent and even if we were it wouldnt be fucking Xabi Alonso.

We'll be fine when he leaves, he doesnt create or control our tempo!! Someone just said that once and now people regurgitate it willy nilly. He's great, he isnt the be all and end all, and all this gnashing of teeth and biting of fingernails is making me look on perplexed and ever so slightly amused.

[/quote]

*slaps Oncy* .............*on the back*
[/quote]

On a side note. You can't take 5 games we've won without Alonso as use it as an arguement against him.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=34708.msg905857#msg905857 date=1247605972]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=34708.msg905767#msg905767 date=1247596440]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34708.msg905684#msg905684 date=1247583714]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905656#msg905656 date=1247578876]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905643#msg905643 date=1247577301]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up. If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists. Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent. He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
[/quote]

I don't think you need 'rubbish facts to back it up', Masher's made far less passes and you only have to watch him play to see that the majority of his play is based on just doing the simple things. Nowt wrong with that, but occasionally his play can be sloppy too and he's nowhere near as ambitious or able with his passing as Xabi is.

Alonso is by far a more clinical, specialist passer, you don't need stats to back that up. His passes are penetrative from a deeper role and position than Xavi's, that's why he doesn't get many direct assists, it's his role at the start of such moves that's of massive importance.

What's the point in comparing him to Xavi when his play is usually 10-20 yards deeper?

It doesn't take a genius to appreciate and recognise how important Xabi is to our attacking play, even if it doesn't have a direct impact in terms of assists.
[/quote]

To be fair. (and this isnt really directed at anyone in particular) I for one am sick of hearing about how 'were nothing without Xabi' and 'we wont win the league without Xabi' and 'Were half a team without him' and 'Its the end of the fucking world if he leaves and takes his long balls with him'

Here's our LAST 5 results without Xabi in the side
PORTSMOUTH 2 - 3 LIVERPOOL
CITY 1 - 1 LIVERPOOL
MANCHESTER UNITED 1 - 4 LIVERPOOL
WEST HAM 0 - 3 LIVERPOOL
WESTBROM 0 - 2 LIVERPOOL

Pts - 13

Soooooo.....Not fucking bad then eh?

I like Xabi, but the way people go on on here, he's more important than Gerrard and fucking Torres. He isnt, he's a good passer who spreads play without scoring or creating goals for his team mates. THATS IT.
He keeps possession superbly well, but then so does Riera (who also passes well).

I wish youd all shut up, your making me want him to leave just to show these One man team fuckers that we arent and even if we were it wouldnt be fucking Xabi Alonso.

We'll be fine when he leaves, he doesnt create or control our tempo!! Someone just said that once and now people regurgitate it willy nilly. He's great, he isnt the be all and end all, and all this gnashing of teeth and biting of fingernails is making me look on perplexed and ever so slightly amused.

[/quote]

*slaps Oncy* .............*on the back*
[/quote]

On a side note. You can't take 5 games we've won without Alonso as use it as an arguement against him.
[/quote]I just picked the last 5 games of the season he didnt play in. Im not an analyst and i dont intend to be. I'll take a wild guess that over the 4 years he's been here results with and without him would be almost the same.

All this said, i really do hope he stays.
 
So 88 fucking pages of Alonso was not enough huh, y'all decided to talk about him in the Mascher thread.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34708.msg905864#msg905864 date=1247606458]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=34708.msg905857#msg905857 date=1247605972]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=34708.msg905767#msg905767 date=1247596440]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34708.msg905684#msg905684 date=1247583714]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905656#msg905656 date=1247578876]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905643#msg905643 date=1247577301]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up. If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists. Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent. He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
[/quote]

I don't think you need 'rubbish facts to back it up', Masher's made far less passes and you only have to watch him play to see that the majority of his play is based on just doing the simple things. Nowt wrong with that, but occasionally his play can be sloppy too and he's nowhere near as ambitious or able with his passing as Xabi is.

Alonso is by far a more clinical, specialist passer, you don't need stats to back that up. His passes are penetrative from a deeper role and position than Xavi's, that's why he doesn't get many direct assists, it's his role at the start of such moves that's of massive importance.

What's the point in comparing him to Xavi when his play is usually 10-20 yards deeper?

It doesn't take a genius to appreciate and recognise how important Xabi is to our attacking play, even if it doesn't have a direct impact in terms of assists.
[/quote]

To be fair. (and this isnt really directed at anyone in particular) I for one am sick of hearing about how 'were nothing without Xabi' and 'we wont win the league without Xabi' and 'Were half a team without him' and 'Its the end of the fucking world if he leaves and takes his long balls with him'

Here's our LAST 5 results without Xabi in the side
PORTSMOUTH 2 - 3 LIVERPOOL
CITY 1 - 1 LIVERPOOL
MANCHESTER UNITED 1 - 4 LIVERPOOL
WEST HAM 0 - 3 LIVERPOOL
WESTBROM 0 - 2 LIVERPOOL

Pts - 13

Soooooo.....Not fucking bad then eh?

I like Xabi, but the way people go on on here, he's more important than Gerrard and fucking Torres. He isnt, he's a good passer who spreads play without scoring or creating goals for his team mates. THATS IT.
He keeps possession superbly well, but then so does Riera (who also passes well).

I wish youd all shut up, your making me want him to leave just to show these One man team fuckers that we arent and even if we were it wouldnt be fucking Xabi Alonso.

We'll be fine when he leaves, he doesnt create or control our tempo!! Someone just said that once and now people regurgitate it willy nilly. He's great, he isnt the be all and end all, and all this gnashing of teeth and biting of fingernails is making me look on perplexed and ever so slightly amused.

[/quote]

*slaps Oncy* .............*on the back*
[/quote]

On a side note. You can't take 5 games we've won without Alonso as use it as an arguement against him.
[/quote]I just picked the last 5 games of the season he didnt play in. Im not an analyst and i dont intend to be. I'll take a wild guess that over the 4 years he's been here results with and without him would be almost the same.

All this said, i really do hope he stays.
[/quote]

We lost 5 games last season that Torres didn't play in, plus we we're top for a chunk of last season without Torres. It'd just be another stat and doesn't mean that we don't need Torres. Same way the fact we lost 5 games at the end of the season without Xabi doesn't mean we don't need him in our team.

Since we both want him to stay all these arguements are moot and pointless. Laters dude.
 
[quote author=Asim link=topic=34708.msg905865#msg905865 date=1247606673]
So 88 fucking pages of Alonso was not enough huh, y'all decided to talk about him in the Mascher thread.
[/quote]

What, there's an Alonso thread? Where?
 
For all the people saying there are more DMs out there than CMs who could do the jobs we need, I challenge you to name 3 DMs who we could realistically get that would be able to do Mascher's job as well.
 
[quote author=Stu link=topic=34708.msg905477#msg905477 date=1247567756]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=34708.msg905468#msg905468 date=1247567524]
Masher is more important to us.
[/quote]

I can't see how you get this SG. Care to eloborate this point?
[/quote]

Because his importance to us defensively is greater than Xabi's importance on either an attacking or defensive stance in my opinion.

edit: That's not to say Masher is a better player, but he is more important to us and giving us a chance to win the league I think.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=34708.msg905905#msg905905 date=1247614232]
Does everyone have to quote so much?
[/quote]

People don't edit their quotes, so it ends up with quotes of quotes of quotes, rather than just a simple line.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=34708.msg905910#msg905910 date=1247615810]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=34708.msg905905#msg905905 date=1247614232]
Does everyone have to quote so much?
[/quote]

People don't edit their quotes, so it ends up with quotes of quotes of quotes, rather than just a simple line.
[/quote]Its not feasible from a mobile.
 
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