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Mascherano to sign a new contract this week?

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[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=34708.msg905533#msg905533 date=1247569379]
Playmakers, who unlike Xabi, play up the pitch ...
[/quote]

They're different players with different qualities. You're never going to see, for example, Alonso playing a wide attacking role skipping past defenders just as you won't see some of those guys playing as holding midfielders with big emphasis on defending.
 
in a team like ours where even our striker has defensive duties masch is over rated and i'd rather have sold him than alonso.

sure he can tackle but his passing, shooting and control of the game are far from world class.
 
if this is true then 1 down 1 to go

We need to keep both were possible!!!

Sort out Masch double quick so that we can persuade Xabi to stay!!!
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=34708.msg905504#msg905504 date=1247568467]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=34708.msg905490#msg905490 date=1247568116]
Fantastic news if true. To lose both of them would be a devastating blow as they're both amongst the best in their respective positions.
[/quote]

Mascherano is top 3 in his position, if not the best.

The gap between Xabi and the best (Fabregas, Xavi, Iniesta, Gerrard, Kaka etc) is rather large. I'd still rather have a happy Xabi with us, but he's not 'amongst the best'
[/quote]

He's amongst the best in our price range though.
 
You can almost feel, nay smell, the sexual tension between Anita and Ryan. Great stuff by both of them in this thread.
 
Mascherano's passing is not as bad as this site makes out. Brendan started this falacy and a lot of the site just went with what he said, if you watch Mascherano closely his passing isnt bad at all.
 
It's not a "fallacy".

His passing at best is inconsistent. At the start of the year he'd lose concentration after winning the ball and misplace a 10 yard straight-forward pass, placing us back under pressure.

His passing got better as the year went on, but it remains the one area of his game he must improve.
 
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=34708.msg905572#msg905572 date=1247571209]
Mascherano's passing is not as bad as this site makes out. Brendan started this falacy and a lot of the site just went with what he said, if you watch Mascherano closely his passing isnt bad at all.
[/quote]

He does give the ball away a fair bit though Sean, I think it's just a concentration thing, because his passing and general play on the ball can also be very good.
 
[quote author=leftpeg link=topic=34708.msg905570#msg905570 date=1247571121]
You can almost feel, nay smell, the sexual tension between Anita and Ryan. Great stuff by both of them in this thread.
[/quote]

:-X
 
[quote author=Anita link=topic=34708.msg905452#msg905452 date=1247567014]
Totally disagree. It's far easier to find a simple DM than to find a player Xabi's mould with his passing range.
[/quote]

Yes. In a nutshell.

Although I would rather we kept both.
 
Looks like he's not being given a pay rise.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...re-staying-at-liverpool-fc-100252-24148730/2/

Contrary to reports, there are as yet no plans to offer the player a new contract as a sweetener with Mascherano just 18 months into a four year deal signed in February 2008.

Benitez is hoping that the lure of possible glory with Liverpool rather than an increased pay packet will be enough to convince Mascherano that his future remains at Anfield.

Only if Mascherano commits himself to the Liverpool cause once again will a new contract become a possibility.
Click to expand...
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=34708.msg905577#msg905577 date=1247571515]
It's not a "fallacy".

His passing at best is inconsistent. At the start of the year he'd lose concentration after winning the ball and misplace a 10 yard straight-forward pass, placing us back under pressure.

His passing got better as the year went on, but it remains the one area of his game he most improve.
[/quote]

Player Assists Passes %
Xabi Alonso 4 2473 84.8%
Steven Gerrard 9 1708 80.3%
Javier Mascherano 1 1610 83.5%
Lucas Leiva 2 857 83.1%
Albert Riera 3 768 80.6%
Yossi Benayoun 5 659 75.7%

Those be facts.
 
[quote author=Anita link=topic=34708.msg905452#msg905452 date=1247567014]
Totally disagree. It's far easier to find a simple DM than to find a player Xabi's mould with his passing range.
[/quote]
Not really.

Scholes, Fabregas, Xavi and Pirlo are better passers than Xabi and they're just off the top of my head.

Name me a better defensive midfielder than Mascherano..

Eggzachleigh..
 
essien is a more complete midfielder, not sure about defensive though.

masch's pass ratio may be high but come on stats are not facts.
 
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905625#msg905625 date=1247575805]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=34708.msg905577#msg905577 date=1247571515]
It's not a "fallacy".

His passing at best is inconsistent. At the start of the year he'd lose concentration after winning the ball and misplace a 10 yard straight-forward pass, placing us back under pressure.

His passing got better as the year went on, but it remains the one area of his game he most improve.
[/quote]

Player Assists Passes %
Xabi Alonso 4 2473 84.8%
Steven Gerrard 9 1708 80.3%
Javier Mascherano 1 1610 83.5%
Lucas Leiva 2 857 83.1%
Albert Riera 3 768 80.6%
Yossi Benayoun 5 659 75.7%

Those be facts.
[/quote]

*Moves over to give Drizzt room on his pedastal*

Hi guys!
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=34708.msg905618#msg905618 date=1247575212]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=34708.msg905452#msg905452 date=1247567014]
Totally disagree. It's far easier to find a simple DM than to find a player Xabi's mould with his passing range.
[/quote]

Yes. In a nutshell.

Although I would rather we kept both.
[/quote]

No, in a nutshell.

For one thing, excellent as Xabi is and much as I'd prefer to keep him, the idea that his type of player is rarer is just flat wrong. Who else could do his job? Well, Stevie for a start, though I'd far sooner see him stay where he is. Other possible alternatives, e.g.Aquilani, have also been mentioned on the forum. Names of alternatives for Mascher, on the other hand, have been conspicuous by their absence, which tells its own story.

Secondly, few players - if any at all, and I doubt that - specialise in the DM role to the extent that Mascher has since he was a youth team player back home in Argieland, because of which he lifts a large percentage of the team's defensive duties off the shoulders of others around him. His departure would mean changes to the way just about everyone else in the team has to go about their business. I'd bet a tidy sum that our closest competitors would sooner see him go than Xabi.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34708.msg905635#msg905635 date=1247576669]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=34708.msg905618#msg905618 date=1247575212]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=34708.msg905452#msg905452 date=1247567014]
Totally disagree. It's far easier to find a simple DM than to find a player Xabi's mould with his passing range.
[/quote]

Yes. In a nutshell.

Although I would rather we kept both.
[/quote]

No, in a nutshell.

For one thing, excellent as Xabi is and much as I'd prefer to keep him, the idea that his type of player is rarer is just flat wrong. Who else could do his job? Well, Stevie for a start, though I'd far sooner see him stay where he is. Other possible alternatives, e.g.Aquilani, have also been mentioned on the forum. Names of alternatives for Mascher, on the other hand, have been conspicuous by their absence, which tells its own story.

Secondly, few players - if any at all, and I doubt that - specialise in the DM role to the extent that Mascher has since he was a youth team player back home in Argieland, because of which he lifts a large percentage of the team's defensive duties off the shoulders of others around him. His departure would mean changes to the way just about everyone else in the team has to go about their business. I'd bet a tidy sum that our closest competitors would sooner see him go than Xabi.
[/quote]

Let me be facetious here. He is rare, because it's rare to find a CM that can't play as DM and can't play as AM. Xabi is rare because of his limitations he can ONLY play as a deep lying playmaker. He is irreplacable because very few teams are willing to incorporate such a limited role into their team.

As you say a less "specialized" player will probably add more to the team, with the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.
 
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up. If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists. Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent. He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
 
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905643#msg905643 date=1247577301]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up. If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists. Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent. He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
[/quote]

I don't think you need 'rubbish facts to back it up', Masher's made far less passes and you only have to watch him play to see that the majority of his play is based on just doing the simple things. Nowt wrong with that, but occasionally his play can be sloppy too and he's nowhere near as ambitious or able with his passing as Xabi is.

Alonso is by far a more clinical, specialist passer, you don't need stats to back that up. His passes are penetrative from a deeper role and position than Xavi's, that's why he doesn't get many direct assists, it's his role at the start of such moves that's of massive importance.

What's the point in comparing him to Xavi when his play is usually 10-20 yards deeper?

It doesn't take a genius to appreciate and recognise how important Xabi is to our attacking play, even if it doesn't have a direct impact in terms of assists.
 
Because of the nature of Xabi's game you can forgive him for misplacing the odd pass.

Mascherano's job is to win the ball and pass it 5 yards to his nearest team-mate.

If he can't manage that then it's going to rightly draw more criticism.
 
Mascher can have a payrise when he plays well in the next 6 months. Be fucked if I would give him one just because he is courted by Barca. Have they submitted a bid BTW?
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905656#msg905656 date=1247578876]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905643#msg905643 date=1247577301]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up. If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists. Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent. He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
[/quote]

I don't think you need 'rubbish facts to back it up', Masher's made far less passes and you only have to watch him play to see that the majority of his play is based on just doing the simple things. Nowt wrong with that, but occasionally his play can be sloppy too and he's nowhere near as ambitious or able with his passing as Xabi is.

Alonso is by far a more clinical, specialist passer, you don't need stats to back that up. His passes are penetrative from a deeper role and position than Xavi's, that's why he doesn't get many direct assists, it's his role at the start of such moves that's of massive importance.

What's the point in comparing him to Xavi when his play is usually 10-20 yards deeper?

It doesn't take a genius to appreciate and recognise how important Xabi is to our attacking play, even if it doesn't have a direct impact in terms of assists.
[/quote]

KAPOW!! marky lands the knockout blow!!
 
The stats are meaningless in as much as the reason Xabi has got better passing stats is because we channel our play through him, Masher is our destroyer and fetcher in midfield.

Masher had a pretty patchy season last season but for me his performance against united at anfield was along with Torres away against united the most impressive single performance of any liverpool player. In as much as too say he can be fucking monstrously good.

Xabi doesnt usually put in performances like that but his average game last year was generally excellent. We should keep both and im pretty sure that we will tbh....

I would rather not sell either as both will be hard to replace and i would really hate to lose both, i also think that both of them are professional enough to stay and play well even if they do want to leave.
If masher really is getting a treble payrise then all the problems weve had with him are our fault!!! paying him three times less than similar quality players is always going to unsettle a player especially when really big clubs are sniffing, quite frankly he is what 24 years old top of the tree of his type of player national captain etc... probably getting paid less than a bright prospect player! If its true that masher was on 60 grand a week less than alonso then I would be agitating for a move as well

As for alonso maybe after last season transfer shenanigans Rafa could have made a more public fuss over the lad having stayed and played so well, maybe he was just pissed off that Rafa was still looking for Barry this summer... fuck knows.... maybe he just wants to come home to play for a clearly super ambitious Madrid, who whether we like it or not are on a different financial planet to us, we buy Glen Johnson and put on a brave face they buy Kaka et al.... even if Rafa is directly lying and we somehow magically buy in a player of Villas or silvas quality we stilll will be small fry compared.

Neither player is irreplaceable, both are pretty much unique to themselves and how they play, i would suggest that Masher is probably the harder to replace but selling either is a fucking nightmare.

It also will not happen so anita can rest easy.
 
mash and alonso would be hard to replace but giving the choice of the two I suspect it would be easier to locate a destroyer than a creator.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34708.msg905656#msg905656 date=1247578876]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34708.msg905643#msg905643 date=1247577301]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34708.msg905640#msg905640 date=1247577084]
those facts are rubbish.
xabi's passes are short range, long range and penetrative, I'd argue the majority of masher's passes are simple bread and butter.
[/quote]

Have you got any rubbish facts to back that up. If they were so penetrative, like Xavi's, I'm sure he's got bucketloads of assists. Oh, 1 more than Lucas.

Anyways the point was Mascherano was being called at as inconsistent. He's clearly no more or less consistent than anyone else.
[/quote]

I don't think you need 'rubbish facts to back it up', Masher's made far less passes and you only have to watch him play to see that the majority of his play is based on just doing the simple things. Nowt wrong with that, but occasionally his play can be sloppy too and he's nowhere near as ambitious or able with his passing as Xabi is.

Alonso is by far a more clinical, specialist passer, you don't need stats to back that up. His passes are penetrative from a deeper role and position than Xavi's, that's why he doesn't get many direct assists, it's his role at the start of such moves that's of massive importance.

What's the point in comparing him to Xavi when his play is usually 10-20 yards deeper?

It doesn't take a genius to appreciate and recognise how important Xabi is to our attacking play, even if it doesn't have a direct impact in terms of assists.
[/quote]

To be fair. (and this isnt really directed at anyone in particular) I for one am sick of hearing about how 'were nothing without Xabi' and 'we wont win the league without Xabi' and 'Were half a team without him' and 'Its the end of the fucking world if he leaves and takes his long balls with him'

Here's our LAST 5 results without Xabi in the side
PORTSMOUTH 2 - 3 LIVERPOOL
CITY 1 - 1 LIVERPOOL
MANCHESTER UNITED 1 - 4 LIVERPOOL
WEST HAM 0 - 3 LIVERPOOL
WESTBROM 0 - 2 LIVERPOOL

Pts - 13

Soooooo.....Not fucking bad then eh?

I like Xabi, but the way people go on on here, he's more important than Gerrard and fucking Torres. He isnt, he's a good passer who spreads play without scoring or creating goals for his team mates. THATS IT.
He keeps possession superbly well, but then so does Riera (who also passes well).

I wish youd all shut up, your making me want him to leave just to show these One man team fuckers that we arent and even if we were it wouldnt be fucking Xabi Alonso.

We'll be fine when he leaves, he doesnt create or control our tempo!! Someone just said that once and now people regurgitate it willy nilly. He's great, he isnt the be all and end all, and all this gnashing of teeth and biting of fingernails is making me look on perplexed and ever so slightly amused.
 
I dont think either are that important in our system

think about it. they both score a combined 3 goals a season, against the likes of Hull, Burnley etc. they're not going to help us. it's players like Gerrard and Torres who are priceless

I reckon you can take both out and put 2 international class midfielders in there and we'd be ok. it's just expensive to do and of course there are no guarantee's that whoever we get settles, hence the high prices
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=34708.msg905685#msg905685 date=1247583769]
I dont think either are that important in our system

think about it. they both score a combined 3 goals a season, against the likes of Hull, Burnley etc. they're not going to help us. it's players like Gerrard and Torres who are priceless

I reckon you can take both out and put 2 international class midfielders in there and we'd be ok. it's just expensive to do and of course there are no guarantee's that whoever we get settles, hence the high prices


[/quote]
Perfect timing *high five*
 
If Xabi goes then we should go in for Fiorentina's Filipe Melo - he would cost a bit but I think he would compliment Masha really well in midfield and would also provide us more strength and pace in midfield than Xabi currently does. We may loose some of that long distance passing but at this moment I cannot think of any replacements for Xabi. There seems to be a huge shortage of actual proven good players on the market at the moment not just because Real are going for all the main stars but just a complete lack of talen in world football in all areas of the pitch. I don't just think that clubs can't afford good players - I think the choices available for the top clubs are just too small. The other issue is that our midfield is so good that its actually near to impossible to replace.
 
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