Martin Kelly

[Bradley]

If we do end up in the Europa League after Christmas it could be a blessing for the likes of Kelly, Pacheco, Spearing, Darby and Ayala to get a few games in the first team.

I can't imagine too many fans will be happy to be playing in the second tier of European football so playing some younger guys won't be seen as such a risk. It'll also give out first eleven a much needed rest as they push for the title. (I wish I could believe that last line)

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Bradleme link=topic=36571.msg967564#msg967564 date=1256117192]
If we do end up in the Europa League after Christmas it could be a blessing for the likes of Kelly, Pacheco, Spearing, Darby and Ayala to get a few games in the first team.

I can't imagine too many fans will be happy to be playing in the second tier of European football so playing some younger guys won't be seen as such a risk. It'll also give out first eleven a much needed rest as they push for the title. (I wish I could believe that last line)
[/quote]

Least it might be a trophy to compete for

 

[Buddha]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36571.msg967557#msg967557 date=1256116143]
For the first time in about two decades, we actually have a promising youth and reserve set-up (as opposed to just the odd good young player). How Evans, who practically lived in the reserves from his mid-20s onwards, could ignore the set up there as a manager is a mystery, and likewise Houllier - the supposed great patron of youth football - with the academy, but they've both, finally, been revived. By the time they bear much fruit the plaudits won't count for much, but it's a creditable long-term initiative. Of the current reserves Kelly, like Darby and Ayala, has the right disposition for first team football, but also more ability, and I hope he'll end up as a regular in the centre of the defence. He performed extremely well last night.
[/quote]

Good point Macca, though I'd add Pacheco to your list. He strikes me as someone (much like Kelly) who'd benefit from having better players around him (hence his decent pre-season performances in the past).

 

[gkmacca]

[quote author=Buddha link=topic=36571.msg967573#msg967573 date=1256117528]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36571.msg967557#msg967557 date=1256116143]
For the first time in about two decades, we actually have a promising youth and reserve set-up (as opposed to just the odd good young player). How Evans, who practically lived in the reserves from his mid-20s onwards, could ignore the set up there as a manager is a mystery, and likewise Houllier - the supposed great patron of youth football - with the academy, but they've both, finally, been revived. By the time they bear much fruit the plaudits won't count for much, but it's a creditable long-term initiative. Of the current reserves Kelly, like Darby and Ayala, has the right disposition for first team football, but also more ability, and I hope he'll end up as a regular in the centre of the defence. He performed extremely well last night.
[/quote]

Good point Macca, though I'd add Pacheco to your list. He strikes me as someone (much like Kelly) who'd benefit from having better players around him (hence his decent pre-season performances in the past).


[/quote]

Oh yes, I'd quite agree. In fact, I think we could both add a few more names as being fairly promising to varying degrees. Someone said the other day that the reserves were poor. They're not. They really give me hope when I watch them. To think of such a terrifyingly ramshackle unit as we used to have, it's a small but positive sign to see McMahon and Segura moving these players on. There's direction, of a co-ordinated kind, at long last.

 

[Atlas]

Didn't people rave about how great Plessis was after his debut against Arsenal? only to call him shit a few weeks later

 

[gkmacca]

I don't actually think many did, mate. And the problem with him is that his attitude went very quickly after that from acceptable to atrocious. McMahon seems to scare him a bit, so he's been better this season, but last season his behaviour really stank. (And he still can't pass with his right foot.)

 

[Bradley]

[quote author=Asim link=topic=36571.msg967594#msg967594 date=1256119244]
Didn't people rave about how great Plessis was after his debut against Arsenal? only to call him shit a few weeks later
[/quote]

He did start well and seemed to have loads of potential, maybe it was a case of him getting into the team and getting a natural boost in confidence which raised his game. Over the 7 games he's played for us his confidence may have taken a hammering after making a few dud passes and hearing groans from the crowd.

For a young guy the pressure must be intense standing in-front of 40,000 people all expecting you to be of a certain standard, is it any wonder he hasn't hit the heights he did on his debut?

 

[gkmacca]

That always will have an impact, it's true. In Plessis's case, alas, I suspect it has more to do with his own disposition, exacerbated by the influence of that odious fool Itandje.

 

[keniget]

I have nothing on which to really base this on other than pesonal opinion, but last season Plessis looked as though playing for the reserves wasn't really for him and unfortunately you can't really afford to turn up acting as though you're above it all unless you actually are... and even then it's a stretch.

The thing that has always encouraged me about Kelly's future prospects, aside from his quality of course, is that his physique and athleticism gives him a very good foundation to compete at a higher level.

 

[ILD]

RRARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Plessis doesn't seem to have enough in his locker to compete for a first team spot. He did okay in the Arsenal game but any time i've seen him since made me wonder if he is up to the pace and sharpness of first team football at the highest level.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

[quote author=ILD link=topic=36571.msg967515#msg967515 date=1256114015]
Johnson is going to stall his progress though. He got a break tonight and took it, fair play to him.

*Wonders can Kelly play LB too*
[/quote]

He played LB when out on loan, apparently.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=36571.msg967746#msg967746 date=1256130748]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=36571.msg967515#msg967515 date=1256114015]
Johnson is going to stall his progress though. He got a break tonight and took it, fair play to him.

*Wonders can Kelly play LB too*
[/quote]

He played LB when out on loan, apparently.
[/quote]

I don't think it's ever a good idea to play fullbacks on their wrong foot as they have to check the ball onto their correct foot to clear their lines. a recipes for disaster.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36571.msg967750#msg967750 date=1256131403]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=36571.msg967746#msg967746 date=1256130748]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=36571.msg967515#msg967515 date=1256114015]
Johnson is going to stall his progress though. He got a break tonight and took it, fair play to him.

*Wonders can Kelly play LB too*
[/quote]

He played LB when out on loan, apparently.
[/quote]

I don't think it's ever a good idea to play fullbacks on their wrong foot as they have to check the ball onto their correct foot to clear their lines. a recipes for disaster.
[/quote]

Depends on how good your other foot is. He seems quite comfortable on both. But I haven't seen enough, obviously, to know for sure.

 

[rage]

i thought arbeloa was a very competent left back.

if anything, kelly shows that we shouldn't have wasted money on degen. 2 million signing on and 40k a week for at least 3 years - over 8 million there.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=rage link=topic=36571.msg967763#msg967763 date=1256133295]
i thought arbeloa was a very competent left back.

if anything, kelly shows that we shouldn't have wasted money on degen. 2 million signing on and 40k a week for at least 3 years - over 8 million there.
[/quote]

arbeloa is two footed.

 

[gkmacca]

Martin hadn't played for more than a few months for the reserves when Degen was signed. Degen should never have been signed, but Kelly's later rapid progress was hardly the reason for that.

 

[peekay]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36571.msg967769#msg967769 date=1256133872]
Martin hadn't played for more than a few months for the reserves when Degen was signed. Degen should never have been signed, but Kelly's later rapid progress was hardly the reason for that.
[/quote]

Have you been following Kelly's progress, Macca. He seemed to have come from nowhere especially last season. All this time, I have been hearing about Darby being the next local player to make it to the first team and now Kelly seems to have overtaken him.

 

[gkmacca]

Yes, I must admit I wasn't immediately bowled over by him when he came into the ressies - he looked solid and disciplined but he just did his job and that was that - but once he went to Huddersfield last spring the positive reaction was very impressive and since then I've seen him play left back, right back and centrally and he's looked very good and almost eerily cool-headed. With him and Stephen Irwin we've got two young reserve defenders who are remarkably versatile as well as talented.

 

[peekay]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36571.msg967825#msg967825 date=1256139050]
Yes, I must admit I wasn't immediately bowled over by him when he came into the ressies - he looked solid and disciplined but he just did his job and that was that - but once he went to Huddersfield last spring the positive reaction was very impressive and since then I've seen him play left back, right back and centrally and he's looked very good and almost eerily cool-headed. With him and Stephen Irwin we've got two young reserve defenders who are remarkably versatile as well as talented.
[/quote]

Thanks mate. It just shows how nonlinear, a youngsters progress can be. The coaches at Huddersfield were raving about him. Terry Mac after watching Kelly play for 3 games told that he has no doubt that Kelly will be a premiership player. I am hoping we get a similar debut from Irwin too.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=peekay link=topic=36571.msg967819#msg967819 date=1256138526]
Have you been following Kelly's progress, Macca. He seemed to have come from nowhere especially last season. All this time, I have been hearing about Darby being the next local player to make it to the first team and now Kelly seems to have overtaken him.
[/quote]

Unlike Macca, I was very impressed with him from the get go and regularly sung his praises last season - he just looked a player. On the other hand, I've never been particularly impressed with Darby who whilst being solid just doesn't seem like he's got enough to step it up.

 

[peekay]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=36571.msg967839#msg967839 date=1256139674]
[quote author=peekay link=topic=36571.msg967819#msg967819 date=1256138526]
Have you been following Kelly's progress, Macca. He seemed to have come from nowhere especially last season. All this time, I have been hearing about Darby being the next local player to make it to the first team and now Kelly seems to have overtaken him.
[/quote]

Unlike Macca, I was very impressed with him from the get go and regularly sung his praises last season - he just looked a player. On the other hand, I've never been particularly impressed with Darby who whilst being solid just doesn't seem like he's got enough to step it up.
[/quote]

I remember earlier this season or the end of the previous season, you made a post stating that you had no doubt that Kelly will make it.
Good call 🙂

 

[rebel23]

he's still very young as a defender but he has that natural talent and last night showed that he is capable of performing at this sort of level, which is astonishing

players progress at different rates but what Kelly achieved last night makes him one of England's hottest young properties, he's also being picked by England unlike the numerous other academy players so the signs bode well

 

[SummerOnions]

Micah Richards started off well, so hold yer horses.

 

[Squiggles]

Who's going over the top?

 

[dossena]

He ain't Jay dwarfing Spearing I'll tell you that much.

 

[SummerOnions]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36571.msg968249#msg968249 date=1256160037]
Who's going over the top?
[/quote]
Quite happily anyone.

 

[drizzt]

[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=36571.msg967384#msg967384 date=1256085456]
Hes not up to Evans standard for example.

I think the acadamy has been a massive failure, they should not of built it in Kirby away from the 1st team, how can you learn when you cant see the standards you should be aiming for?

I know a kid watching Torres train every day is going to pick up more if he is canny lad.

They should sell it and turn it into a school or gym.
[/quote]

The reserves go down there to train every week. U18 players are often called up to train at melwood, where the reserves train with the first team. AND most of the players at the academy are part-time and train in the evenings when the first teamers are off out drinking or some such anyway. So I don't think it's as big a deal as some make out.

 

[Glock21]

Couple of points on the game against Lyon:

1) For all Rafael's crying about injuries, Lyon were missing just as many players as we were

2) We scored when Cris was off the pitch and Lyon were down to 10. If he'd been on it's likely he'd have cleared the danger in that situation

3) Glen Johnson wasn't missed even slightly. Kelly offered everything Johnson does in attack and was far superior defensively. Kelly is a year away from being ready to be a regular at rightback which makes Rafa's decision to sell Arbeloa and then waste 17million on Johnson look even more ridiculous. That 17 million could have gotten us Dmytro Chygrynskiy at the start of the summer who, alongside Agger, would have given us a great defense that would have gotten better over time.

 

[dossena]

[quote author=Glock link=topic=36571.msg968536#msg968536 date=1256195742]
Couple of points on the game against Lyon:

1) For all Rafael's crying about injuries, Lyon were missing just as many players as we were

2) We scored when Cris was off the pitch and Lyon were down to 10. If he'd been on it's likely he'd have cleared the danger in that situation

3) Glen Johnson wasn't missed even slightly. Kelly offered everything Johnson does in attack and was far superior defensively. Kelly is a year away from being ready to be a regular at rightback which makes Rafa's decision to sell Arbeloa and then waste 17million on Johnson look even more ridiculous. That 17 million could have gotten us Dmytro Chygrynskiy at the start of the summer who, alongside Agger, would have given us a great defense that would have gotten better over time.
[/quote]
Martin Kelly's natural position is centre back.

So if we spent shitloads on Dmytro Chygrynskiy (DC) instead, that means we'll have Agger, Skrtel, Carragher, DC, and in a year time (according to yours truly), Kelly.

Arbeloa wanted out, so we would have be left with Degen, Kelly and Darby.

That's a bit stupid I think.

We should've gone all out on a striker, looking at Torres' recent injury history.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=dossena link=topic=36571.msg968540#msg968540 date=1256196119]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=36571.msg968536#msg968536 date=1256195742]
Couple of points on the game against Lyon:

1) For all Rafael's crying about injuries, Lyon were missing just as many players as we were

2) We scored when Cris was off the pitch and Lyon were down to 10. If he'd been on it's likely he'd have cleared the danger in that situation

3) Glen Johnson wasn't missed even slightly. Kelly offered everything Johnson does in attack and was far superior defensively. Kelly is a year away from being ready to be a regular at rightback which makes Rafa's decision to sell Arbeloa and then waste 17million on Johnson look even more ridiculous. That 17 million could have gotten us Dmytro Chygrynskiy at the start of the summer who, alongside Agger, would have given us a great defense that would have gotten better over time.
[/quote]
Martin Kelly's natural position is centre back.

So if we spent shitloads on Dmytro Chygrynskiy (DC) instead, that means we'll have Agger, Skrtel, Carragher, DC, and in a year time (according to yours truly), Kelly.

Arbeloa wanted out, so we would have be left with Degen, Kelly and Darby.

That's a bit stupid I think.

We should've gone all out on a striker, looking at Torres' recent injury history.
[/quote]

Read my post above. Kelly's maybe a year from being ready and Rafael should not have sold Arbeloa. Plenty of players wanted to leave. Arbeloa's no exception. Rafael's stupid decision to let him go and sign 17mil Johnson isn't the right thing to do. Skrtel is just a headless chicken defender. Average. We can sell him in January if Rafael being smart in the transfer market.

Lucio too was on Bosman. But what did Rafael do? Spent another 20mil on an injury prone midfielder.