Liverpool vs West Ham - Match Thread

[Dreambeliever]

Lovely game. Most heavy metal game we’ve seen all year.
End to end.

Mane never lets us down. What a man.

Easily POTY.

Sub Keita off bam, winning!

 

[keniget]

just out of ideas

That's what comes across to me. A combination of that and maybe form and quality in the final third.

This team can be devastatingly good in transitions (on the break) when everyone is in top form. It wasn't really built to break down 10 men behind the ball though. That's why, to an extent, the comparisons to City are a little unfair.

We don't have a team full of world class creative attacking midfielder types.

We could probably do with one or two in the summer though.

 

[manwithnoname]

Lovely game. Most heavy metal game we’ve seen all year.
End to end.

Mane never lets us down. What a man.

Easily POTY.

Sub Keita off bam, winning!

Heavy metal? It was too slow and ponderous for quite a bit of the first half especially; more Slowdive than Black Sabbath.

 

[Mamma Mia]

That's what comes across to me. A combination of that and maybe form and quality in the final third.

This team can be devastatingly good in transitions (on the break) when everyone is in top form. It wasn't really built to break down 10 men behind the ball though. That's why, to an extent, the comparisons to City are a little unfair.

We don't have a team full of world class creative attacking midfielder types.

We could probably do with one or two in the summer though.

And here I was thinking that's been our biggest improvement this year, finding other ways to break teams down. The results seem to suggest we're not too shabby breaking teams down when we aren't in top form.

 

[keniget]

And here I was thinking that's been our biggest improvement this year, finding other ways to break teams down. The results seem to suggest we're not too shabby breaking teams down when we aren't in top form.

Yeah, of course we have been a lot better at finding ways to win this year.

But (and maybe it's just me) it doesn't feel like something we can sustain in our present form.

I'm not complaining about this year - more looking ahead.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Yeah, of course we have been a lot better at finding ways to win this year.

But (and maybe it's just me) it doesn't feel like something we can sustain in our present form.

I'm not complaining about this year - more looking ahead.

I guess I just really trust Klopp to figure it out. He's nailed it so far.

 

[Mersey86]

I see a few things this year:

1. Mentality - as often pointed out, we have great mentality, though we haven't had to deal with a bad patch ... and hopefully won't need to.
2. Lines of attack. We are hard to stop - you can focus on stopping Trent and Robbo, or keep Salah and Mane quiet, but then we have developed the ball from deep. We can play scintillating football, we can play route one - whatever the situation needs - when a team tries to attack us (thinking in particular of Everton, but also Southampton second half, Man City, and maybe Leicester) - then we can rip them apart.
3. Adaptability - see above for in-game adaptability. We beat teams many different ways - my favourite is maybe the Sheff Utd home, or West Ham away - where they seem almost afraid to play us, and we do the minimum to take the offered win. But also adaptability in that we have survived the loss of various key players over the season, and the sky has not fallen down.
4. Luck - it has gone our way - keeper mistakes (Sheff Utd, West Ham), a few penalty calls (Leicester ..), late misses (Lo Celso, Jimenez, Ings, Zaha) which could have denied us points. Part of the game, but could name a dozen games where it was just a relief to win.

I have some sympathy with the City fans' view on their Centurions team - although no sympathy with City fans. They moved football in this country to a different level, a little like our 1987-88 team was unlike anything seen before.
We have been a machine this season, but a little less dazzling than in previous seasons, and in comparison to that Manchester City team.

 

[rurikbird]

I have some sympathy with the City fans' view on their Centurions team - although no sympathy with City fans. They moved football in this country to a different level, a little like our 1987-88 team was unlike anything seen before.
We have been a machine this season, but a little less dazzling than in previous seasons, and in comparison to that Manchester City team.

I'm not sure I agree with the last point; l felt that during that “centurion” season too many teams didn’t have a proper go at City, much like how it would happen in Spain or Germany when Barca or Bayern were at their frightening best - other teams just wrote it off as a loss even before the game because it would take too much work and sacrifice to truly test them with no guarantee of a positive outcome. So after a truly impressive run in the first few months of the season, I think City kind of coasted on reputation and fear factor the rest of the way.

There have been a few games like this for us this season, but far fewer - whether it’s the increased strength and competitiveness of the league, personal animosity towards us from certain teams and managers (compare West Ham’s performance against us vs City last week) or other factors - with a couple of exceptions we had to work and fight for every win.

 

[manwithnoname]

I'm not sure I agree with the last point; l felt that during that “centurion” season too many teams didn’t have a proper go at City, much like how it would happen in Spain or Germany when Barca or Bayern were at their frightening best - other teams just wrote it off as a loss even before the game because it would take too much work and sacrifice to truly test them with no guarantee of a positive outcome. So after a truly impressive run in the first few months of the season, I think City kind of coasted on reputation and fear factor the rest of the way.

There have been a few games like this for us this season, but far fewer - whether it’s the increased strength and competitiveness of the league, personal animosity towards us from certain teams and managers (compare West Ham’s performance against us vs City last week) or other factors - with a couple of exceptions we had to work and fight for every win.

This is veering a little into Fume territory. Other teams have tried harder against us? So it's more impressive?

Hmmm. Maybe we just haven't been as difficult to play against and have scored fewer goals, which in itself gives teams a bit of hope.

The 18 game run that we matched with City's own run should give you some clue; we scored far less and battered fewer teams.

 

[Woland]

Yeah the amount of goalies who've had a stinker against us is kinda high. You're gonna need some luck to get a run like this together, but we've had quite a lot

 

[manwithnoname]

Yeah the amount of goalies who've had a stinker against us is kinda high. You're gonna need some luck to get a run like this together, but we've had quite a lot

Yeah, and we haven't had many 3, 4, or 5-0 wins.

I'm sure Abu Dhabi Blues may even have racked up a 6-0. They certainly scored a dozen more goals in the same run.

And we've had a few totally classic old-school LFC piss-boiling wins, like last night, and the Villa game and a few more scrappy, one-goal margins, last minute winners, and total fucking howlers, as you said.

We have crushed loads of teams through being brilliant of course, but it's been sheer bloody-minded 'mentality monster' stuff as much as it has been magisterial thrashings, like the 5-0 Forest game that 185,000 Scallies attended in 88

 

[rurikbird]

This is veering a little into Fume territory. Other teams have tried harder against us? So it's more impressive

I didn’t say it’s more impressive - you did. But by the same token I’m not sure City’s season of untroubled dominance should be considered more impressive. They were very good and played some majestic football - but they were also not invincible and indeed beatable with the right plan and application as we had showed at Anfield. And yes, for sure our failure to kill off some games can be considered one of the factors of why this run feels so hard-earned - but I don’t think that’s the whole story.

 

[Frogfish]

This is veering a little into Fume territory. Other teams have tried harder against us? So it's more impressive?

Hmmm. Maybe we just haven't been as difficult to play against and have scored fewer goals, which in itself gives teams a bit of hope.

The 18 game run that we matched with City's own run should give you some clue; we scored far less and battered fewer teams.

Yeah our batterings have been few and far between despite our threatening them quite often. That said City won 8 games in their 18 by a single goal and us 9 so tight games relatively even.

 

[rurikbird]

Yeah our batterings have been few and far between despite our threatening them quite often. That said City won 8 games in their 18 by a single goal and us 9 so tight games relatively even.

The amount of batterings is not the criteria for measuring greatness though. Leagues are all about consistency and by this measure we can match anyone.

 

[mom]

Yeh I’m pretty sure we we’re battering teams last season and missed out by a fraction. Now we’re solid and consistent with a cast iron mentality and have just about managed to keep our noses ahead.

 

[manwithnoname]

I didn’t say it’s more impressive - you did. But by the same token I’m not sure City’s season of untroubled dominance should be considered more impressive. They were very good and played some majestic football - but they were also not invincible and indeed beatable with the right plan and application as we had showed at Anfield. And yes, for sure our failure to kill off some games can be considered one of the factors of why this run feels so hard-earned - but I don’t think that’s the whole story.

Right, so I summarised your post by using the word 'impressive'

What is the whole fucking story then? What's your POINT?

 

[rurikbird]

Right, so I summarised your post by using the word 'impressive'

What is the whole fucking story then? What's your POINT?

You would't understand it.

 

[manwithnoname]

You would't understand it.

Yeah. You don't have one.

Can't you find a computer-generated stat-based visual?

 

[rurikbird]

Yeah. You don't have one.

Can't you find a computer-generated stat-based visual?

Were you bitten by @gkmacca recently?

 

[mark1975]

We were largely unlucky during most of the game. Second balls always bouncing away from us, passes being a yard short etc.
It was just one of those games.

Passes being a yard short isn't unlucky, it's a poor pass. It's amazing you don't apply this sort of logic across all lineups, and not just the ones that involve your preferred players.

For all your old assertions that Fabinho and/or Keita would keep player X out the side, and how much better we are defensively with the former in the side, it hasn't stopped us being cut through far too easily at times. That midfield yesterday was piss poor and not for the first time. And no, Keita wasnt tearing up the Premiership in December, as you've said elsewhere, that's just more hyperbole.

 

[Modo]

Passes being a yard short isn't unlucky, it's a poor pass. It's amazing you don't apply this sort of logic across all lineups, and not just the ones that involve your preferred players.

For all your old assertions that Fabinho and/or Keita would keep player X out the side, and how much better we are defensively with the former in the side, it hasn't stopped us being cut through far too easily at times. That midfield yesterday was piss poor and not for the first time. And no, Keita wasnt tearing up the Premiership in December, as you've said elsewhere, that's just more hyperbole.

Oh you got me...what a load of crap.
From like two sentences, I'm kinda amazed you managed to deduce all of that.
Of course it's about Henderson....of course...did you even celebrate Mane's goal or were you pre-writing a post about me?
Cause that must have stung huh? The team being able to win without Henderson, took some of the edge out of what you were about to write?

 

[Modo]

 

[Stevesquash]

Yeah, and we haven't had many 3, 4, or 5-0 wins.

I'm sure Abu Dhabi Blues may even have racked up a 6-0. They certainly scored a dozen more goals in the same run.

And we've had a few totally classic old-school LFC piss-boiling wins, like last night, and the Villa game and a few more scrappy, one-goal margins, last minute winners, and total fucking howlers, as you said.

We have crushed loads of teams through being brilliant of course, but it's been sheer bloody-minded 'mentality monster' stuff as much as it has been magisterial thrashings, like the 5-0 Forest game that 185,000 Scallies attended in 88

I find it very interesting that 2 of our batterings came against our closest rivals (I know it was "only" 3-1 against City but it was very comfortable.) as we've said numerous times, we are able to coast to a win and then raise our game several notches when needed. It has been game management of a level I've not seen before.

So satisfying to "out fergie" even his best teams. That ghost well and truly slain...

 

[Insignificance]

We were largely unlucky during most of the game. Second balls always bouncing away from us, passes being a yard short etc.
It was just one of those games.

Passes being a yard short isn't unlucky, it's a poor pass. It's amazing you don't apply this sort of logic across all lineups, and not just the ones that involve your preferred players.

I am 100% not going into the narrative between you guys. But I want to touch upon good, bad or unlucky passing.

For me we have improved our passing and this is probably the biggest factor that we are so difficult to beat these days. We have allways been a passing team, but we definatly has improved the tempo on the ball combined with keeping the accuracy. To me (I don't have any statistics to prove it) it looks like we are better in our passing in the final thrid than a few seasons back and we have bigger risk in our passing game as well. This means that we should miss more, but I don't think we have. In addition there are many teams trying to close down our passing opportunities but don't manage to do it. We have gone far from rolling it sideways that is for sure, and the few teams that have managed to frustrate us has been able to close down our passing play in the final thrid efficient (At Madrid especially).

 

[Modo]

I am 100% not going into the narrative between you guys. But I want to touch upon good, bad or unlucky passing.

For me we have improved our passing and this is probably the biggest factor that we are so difficult to beat these days. We have allways been a passing team, but we definatly has improved the tempo on the ball combined with keeping the accuracy. To me (I don't have any statistics to prove it) it looks like we are better in our passing in the final thrid than a few seasons back and we have bigger risk in our passing game as well. This means that we should miss more, but I don't think we have. In addition there are many teams trying to close down our passing opportunities but don't manage to do it. We have gone far from rolling it sideways that is for sure, and the few teams that have managed to frustrate us has been able to close down our passing play in the final thrid efficient (At Madrid especially).

I was talking about when they tried one-twos and more high temp difficult passes. The ball just didn't bounce our way in the first half was what I tried to say.

 

[Insignificance]

I was talking about when they tried one-twos and more high temp difficult passes. The ball just didn't bounce our way in the first half was what I tried to say.

I know and it is an intersting point. Cause our passing game is extremelly ambitious. We play high tempo passing in areas you can crowd up, making the passing game look inaccurate or "unlucky". And fans has a tendency of just branding it shit. "We are shit today" is something you often hear. We might be below standard at times, but we still deserve praise for keeping up the ambition of breaking through and keep on beleiving in what we do. It is easy to let the head drop a little when passes bounces the wrong way, or you struggle to to get them right. But we have been very impressive in adjusting a little and keep on passing our way through in extreme narrow patches.

 

[Mamma Mia]

It's not just our passing. There's been a clear improvement in the passing patterns and coordinated runs to make space for others.

It's especially noticeable from throw ins and in the way Mane drags fullbacks to the inside to allow Robbo space. Sure, all teams work on these movements, but we have become much better at it.

 

[Modo]

I know and it is an intersting point. Cause our passing game is extremelly ambitious. We play high tempo passing in areas you can crowd up, making the passing game look inaccurate or "unlucky". And fans has a tendency of just branding it shit. "We are shit today" is something you often hear. We might be below standard at times, but we still deserve praise for keeping up the ambition of breaking through and keep on beleiving in what we do. It is easy to let the head drop a little when passes bounces the wrong way, or you struggle to to get them right. But we have been very impressive in adjusting a little and keep on passing our way through in extreme narrow patches.

We weren't shit against West Ham, that had 4 shots on goal. 2 went in. Just one of those days.
We dominated and pressured West Ham for most of the game. Don't forget West Ham is one of the teams who are fighting to stay in the prem.
They're just not gonna roll over.
And on that note I fear the upcoming Watford game. They will be up for it and we can't afford to be sloppy.

 

[manwithnoname]

We weren't shit against West Ham, that had 4 shots on goal. 2 went in. Just one of those days.
We dominated and pressured West Ham for most of the game. Don't forget West Ham is one of the teams who are fighting to stay in the prem.
They're just not gonna roll over.
And on that note I fear the upcoming Watford game. They will be up for it and we can't afford to be sloppy.

No it wasn't. We were too passive, and this was evident in the amount of second balls we didn't get hold of, the lack of concentration in dealing with set-pieces and the ponderous movement and slow passing.

It was fixed a bit better in the second half, and especially when Keita went off, but it wasn't a good performance

 

[Mamma Mia]

No it wasn't. We were too passive, and this was evident in the amount of second balls we didn't get hold of, the lack of concentration in dealing with set-pieces and the ponderous movement and slow passing.

It was fixed a bit better in the second half, and especially when Keita went off, but it wasn't a good performance

Wasn't shite either