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Liverpool Vs The Chosen One (includes Pardew Goodness) Post Match Thread

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I have to confess, 2 seasons ago Origi was doing a pre season interview in my region. He said he wanted to learn as much as he can and dreams of becoming a legend for the club.

At that point he was stinking the place and looked terrible so I was thinking to myself they must have ran out of players to interview and this fella might not even last the season.

He has looked very much better since then and i hope he fulfill his dream.
 
Here's some ratings, given nobody else gets them right

We had so much possession, but there too many aimless or misdirected balls, and we didn't make the most of the chances (or half-chances) we got. So many chipped or lobbed balls that Sunderland dealt with well, or short passes that were over hit or under hit. We didn't have a focal point for the attack, and balls were aimless

Klopp's intervention with the crowd seemed to jolt Anfield out of its stupor, but It took two moments of individual quality to get the goals, Origi scoring his first Premiership goal of the season, and Mane wisely trying not to shoot or pass, and just stick to running extremely quickly to win the penalty.

Karius (6) couple of moments of hesitation nearly cost us, and there was that pass, but he made amends and deserved his clean sheet, even if he didn't really have that much to do

Clyne (7) very solid and was everywhere in the first half. Oddly, as we improved Clyne got more wasteful, but another good display, even if he could do with some advice from Milner on creating chances and delivery

Matip (7) Not quite as impressive as he has been in recent weeks, with one or two moments of worry defensively, but another clean sheet for the defence

Lovren (7) was on a mission to score and probably should have done better with one header. Passed well and some good clearances, and had some good tussles with Purple Anichebe

Milner (7) He was not as advanced as you might expect, but a typically all-action display and another lovely penalty

Henderson (7) I was unsure about Henderson in this deeper, more disciplined role, as I felt it would diminish his biggest weapons; that power and athleticism. But he has made it work. He's very difficult to get past, and he eats up the pitch, giving the opposition less and less space to move, pass and play into. Kept the tempo up and used the ball well.

Wijnaldum (6) he has nice technique and snappy short passing, but he needs to have more attacking threat; he has to bring more to the team, especially in games like this, when it's attack vs defence. Too many (6) ratings.

Can (7) is this a bit generous? He certainly took responsibility to try and make things happen, and cracked in one lovely volleyed effort, and he never stopped working and moving. However, on the downside, there are times when he looks SO laboured and the ball just slows down around him on occasion

Coutinho (5) early injury. Which is a shame.

Mane (5) gets an extra point for the penalty run, when his speed caused panic and a clear penalty. Before that it wasn't going well, with a succession of blocked shots, scuffed efforts and wonky passing

Firmino (7) some nice skill and control in and around the box, plenty of work and a couple of good shots. He moved wider and swapped positions with Origi, but all too often there wasn't a striker for him to aim for, so he was left trying to do it all himself, and he isn't exactly a deadly finisher by anyone's standards. Needed more help, but it was a good performance.

Subs:

Origi (7) it's not really happened for him this season, with some disappointing glimpses from the bench, but he had longer to make his mark and he rescued this game from a possible draw, with a great piece of skill and lovely shot bent across Pickford into the corner. Nice to see him score at last

Lucas (n/a) thankfully not on the pitch very long

Woodford (n/a) not sure he touched the ball.
 
Agree with that. Didnt see the hesitation from Karius mind. He came out very quickly off his line 2-3 times and saved us. Started the attacks quickly and showed no hesitation when he was tested imho.

That pass that ended up as corner was awful mind.
 
Agree with that. Didnt see the hesitation from Karius mind. He came out very quickly off his line 2-3 times and saved us. Started the attacks quickly and showed no hesitation when he was tested imho.

That pass that ended up as corner was awful mind.

Another clean sheet is great for his confidence and the defence as a whole. Hope we keep this improvement going
 
I actually felt comfortable with Karius in nets yesterday, he dealt with a couple of balls pinged back at him by the defence very quickly with ease, & even when he chose the wrong pass he still looked pretty comfortable dealing with the follow up too.

He definitely seems to be growing in confidence & perhaps even more importantly the defenders seem to think he can deal with passes when they're under pressure, with Mignolet they would often try very hard or stupid passes instead of a simple back pass as they (understandably) didn't want to always pass it back to him.
 
I actually felt comfortable with Karius in nets yesterday, he dealt with a couple of balls pinged back at him by the defence very quickly with ease, & even when he chose the wrong pass he still looked pretty comfortable dealing with the follow up too.

He definitely seems to be growing in confidence & perhaps even more importantly the defenders seem to think he can deal with passes when they're under pressure, with Mignolet they would often try very hard or stupid passes instead of a simple back pass as they (understandably) didn't want to always pass it back to him.
I think the save he made at the feet of Watmore demonstrated the difference in styles between himself and Mignolet.
He was really quick off his line to parry the ball away from Watmore.
If that had been Mignolet he would have narrowed the angle relying on his shot stopping to make a save.
I know Karius is far from the finished article but I have high hopes that he will get there
 
Id expect more arrows pointing forward

Sunderland had 7 players in midfield for much of the time, and obviously focussed on him as the player who is at the base of all our play. As for those chipped forward passes that people have complained about, Can also failed with several of those and no one has mentioned him. In fact, I wonder if this was something we were working on, because those balls struck me as looking a bit strange. Nevertheless, despite how terrific Gini and Can were supposedly, neither had as many passes leading to chances as Hendo, who was supposedly shit.

If Hendo had played lots more forward passes (of which many would have been picked off given their tactical congestion of the midfield) some of the same people would be criticising for his attempting too many 'Hollywood' balls.
 
Sunderland had 7 players in midfield for much of the time, and obviously focussed on him as the player who is at the base of all our play. As for those chipped forward passes that people have complained about, Can also failed with several of those and no one has mentioned him. In fact, I wonder if this was something we were working on, because those balls struck me as looking a bit strange. Nevertheless, despite how terrific Gini and Can were supposedly, neither had as many passes leading to chances as Hendo, who was supposedly shit.

If Hendo had played lots more forward passes (of which many would have been picked off) some of the same people would be criticising for attempting too many 'Hollywood' balls.

I don't care about Hollywood balls. I'm looking for simple incisive forward passes from midfield. He was given space and time on the ball today and he still just kept giving it to Matip and Lovren.
I get that he's playing in a defensive role, but FFS yesterday we played against (as he himself put it) "the most defensive team our manager has ever seen". Surely you can afford to take a few risks?
So what truly bothers me is that Henderson isn't a actually defensive midfielder. He has the ability to run with the ball and attack, but he still doesn't do it against a team that is sitting back.
 
Here's some ratings, given nobody else gets them right

We had so much possession, but there too many aimless or misdirected balls, and we didn't make the most of the chances (or half-chances) we got. So many chipped or lobbed balls that Sunderland dealt with well, or short passes that were over hit or under hit. We didn't have a focal point for the attack, and balls were aimless

Klopp's intervention with the crowd seemed to jolt Anfield out of its stupor, but It took two moments of individual quality to get the goals, Origi scoring his first Premiership goal of the season, and Mane wisely trying not to shoot or pass, and just stick to running extremely quickly to win the penalty.

Karius (6) couple of moments of hesitation nearly cost us, and there was that pass, but he made amends and deserved his clean sheet, even if he didn't really have that much to do

Clyne (7) very solid and was everywhere in the first half. Oddly, as we improved Clyne got more wasteful, but another good display, even if he could do with some advice from Milner on creating chances and delivery

Matip (7) Not quite as impressive as he has been in recent weeks, with one or two moments of worry defensively, but another clean sheet for the defence

Lovren (7) was on a mission to score and probably should have done better with one header. Passed well and some good clearances, and had some good tussles with Purple Anichebe

Milner (7) He was not as advanced as you might expect, but a typically all-action display and another lovely penalty

Henderson (7) I was unsure about Henderson in this deeper, more disciplined role, as I felt it would diminish his biggest weapons; that power and athleticism. But he has made it work. He's very difficult to get past, and he eats up the pitch, giving the opposition less and less space to move, pass and play into. Kept the tempo up and used the ball well.

Wijnaldum (6) he has nice technique and snappy short passing, but he needs to have more attacking threat; he has to bring more to the team, especially in games like this, when it's attack vs defence. Too many (6) ratings.

Can (7) is this a bit generous? He certainly took responsibility to try and make things happen, and cracked in one lovely volleyed effort, and he never stopped working and moving. However, on the downside, there are times when he looks SO laboured and the ball just slows down around him on occasion

Coutinho (5) early injury. Which is a shame.

Mane (5) gets an extra point for the penalty run, when his speed caused panic and a clear penalty. Before that it wasn't going well, with a succession of blocked shots, scuffed efforts and wonky passing

Firmino (7) some nice skill and control in and around the box, plenty of work and a couple of good shots. He moved wider and swapped positions with Origi, but all too often there wasn't a striker for him to aim for, so he was left trying to do it all himself, and he isn't exactly a deadly finisher by anyone's standards. Needed more help, but it was a good performance.

Subs:

Origi (7) it's not really happened for him this season, with some disappointing glimpses from the bench, but he had longer to make his mark and he rescued this game from a possible draw, with a great piece of skill and lovely shot bent across Pickford into the corner. Nice to see him score at last

Lucas (n/a) thankfully not on the pitch very long

Woodford (n/a) not sure he touched the ball.
That's about right imo.

But "Woodford“?
 
So what truly bothers me is that Henderson isn't a actually defensive midfielder. He has the ability to run with the ball and attack, but he still doesn't do it against a team that is sitting back.

He doesn't do it because the position demands he doesn't do it. He was our defensive cover for most of the game. Yes they were defensive, but a bad pass made us at constant risk of a break because we were pushed so far forward. Both Lovren and Matip were camped 10-15 yards into their half. Hendo couldn't just sashay forward on every whim.
 
Agreed, and the interchanging of passing between Matip, Lovren and Henderson was obviously also to get some movement in the blocks of defence from Sunderland.

This all feel like some hopless agenda drivel.
 
Agreed, and the interchanging of passing between Matip, Lovren and Henderson was obviously also to get some movement in the blocks of defence from Sunderland.

This all feel like some hopless agenda drivel.
When did he exploit that so called movement? Or was it like a game of ping-pong between him Matip and Lovren for 112 of those 119 passes he made?
 
never was hendo's biggest fan but he adds some much needed pace and power to the DM role after years of having to endure Lucas playing there

He has a decent cross in him too. if it wasn't for some poor finishing he would have a few more assists.

His stats look outstanding compared to Francis Coquelin, who is yet to score for the arse after playing 79 games
 
I agree. But when several media outlets have him as MOTM and its only 2-3 people on here who think he had a sub par level performance, then its a bit strange. Certainly when the numbers doesnt back up the argument.

If a player has a average game, most people will agree with that with maybe a few percentages going the other ways.

As for ratings, he was a 7. Not our best player but certainly not a poor or average perofrmance.
Several media outlets ? Really ? Actually the numbers do back up the argument. Just look at his pass chart !
 
How on earth does his numbers back up a 4 or 5 rating and labeling it a "poor performance"?
 
But Henderson played well. Thats the difference.

He's always quick to jump on the players he dislikes and then has a moan at everyone for not being ultra supportive. Henderson wasn't great, but Froggy made a point about him not doing anything right, which was wide of the mark. He set up one brilliant attack which should have resulted in a goal and he hit the freekick that Lovren should have buried. On another day he has one or two assists.

I was going to criticise the late subs again but God forbid, I'll probably be fucking jumped on again for not finding the whole setup completely infallible.
 
When did he exploit that so called movement? Or was it like a game of ping-pong between him Matip and Lovren for 112 of those 119 passes he made?

Yes. Cause thats obvioulsy true that 112 of 117 passes were between those 3.
 
He's always quick to jump on the players he dislikes and then has a moan at everyone for not being ultra supportive. Henderson wasn't great, but Froggy made a point about him not doing anything right, which was wide of the mark. He set up one brilliant attack which should have resulted in a goal and he hit the freekick that Lovren should have buried. On another day he has one or two assists.

I was going to criticise the late subs again but God forbid, I'll probably be fucking jumped on again for not find the whole setup infallible.

Its just weird really. He obviously didnt have an average or poor game.

We didnt have much on the bench though due to the early sub. With either Studge or Origi still there, I'd agree though.
 
Oh, ditto Modo too. Shall we talk about how utterly toothless we've been since Lallana got injured? Fucking oh.
 
We've averaged half a goal a game across two games, if we're joining in the game of pointless manipulated stats.
 
We've averaged half a goal a game across two games, if we're joining in the game of pointless manipulated stats.

And we've created how many good quality chances? No team will score 3-4 goals a game ...As long as we're creating the chances, the goals will come again ... 🙂

Let's see how we do without Coutinho in the coming few weeks ...
 
And we've created how many good quality chances? No team will score 3-4 goals a game ...As long as we're creating the chances, the goals will come again ... 🙂

Let's see how we do without Coutinho in the coming few weeks ...

It will be a a few weeks sadly. Saw an update this morning that he'll have a scan tomorrow with suspected ligament damage. Origi to step up and Lallana to be back next weekend will help us out mind.
 
And we've created how many good quality chances? No team will score 3-4 goals a game ...As long as we're creating the chances, the goals will come again ... 🙂

Let's see how we do without Coutinho in the coming few weeks ...

I know this, you div x I was taking the piss
 
We really are missing Lallana because the Hendo-Can-Win trio doesn't have the same fluency. With Cou out for a while and Lallana now wrestling with a groin injury I think Klopp will push for Dahoud in Jan, and quite likely get another attacking player in. Not so much panic buying but bringing forward some transfer plans.
 
I'm beginning to think that Can hasn't the speed or subtlety to fit into a Klopp team.

I've thought that for a while. He's not mobile or quick thinking/footed enough. I wouldn't be surprised if we sold him next summer when we'll get most for him.

I think he's a good footballer but his inclusion in the team grates a little with the rest of the fluidity.
 
Tootheless?
Oh give me a break.
We missed like 8 real chances against Southampton.

Indeed - Lallana is very good for us but this idea that we cannot manage without him is stupid. He is only just showing how good he can be this season - we have others that I am sure can make a bit of a difference that we have not fielded yet.
 
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