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Liverpool v Leeds United - Match Thread

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Dreambeliever said:
He and Firmino have been shite. Hopefully they don’t go down the route of Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and co of becoming fat useless Brazilians after great success.
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As I told my TWELVE YEAR OLD son, you don't judge players on a few games, & you definitely dont do so if they've already proven their quality in the past for you.

Both Bobby & Allison have more than proven their worth, & Allison made himself known enough today to make think he'll be fine.
 
FoxForceFive said:
As I told my TWELVE YEAR OLD son, you don't judge players on a few games, & you definitely dont do so if they've already proven their quality in the past for you.

Both Bobby & Allison have more than proven their worth, & Allison made himself known enough today to make think he'll be fine.
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Im less concerned by VvD and Allison, yes theyve been uncharacteristically sloppy of late but I think a swift kick up the arse will resolve it, if it continues then it may be time to get concerned.

Firmino is a different issue altogether, hes been mostly poor to mediocre for the last 12 months except a puprle patch around Christmas. He never really looks like scoring any more and some of his play has become really self indulgent, pointless flicks and casually misplaced passes are too common. Hes playing every game as if we have a 3 goal lead.
 
refugee said:
I know we are all about negativity at the moment but I was quite impressed at how many times Jones won the ball.
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Jones did well when he came on, but I thought Keita did well too & most people think he was shite, so I'm doubting my ability to rate players TBH!
 
RedStar said:
Im less concerned by VvD and Allison, yes theyve been uncharacteristically sloppy of late but I think a swift kick up the arse will resolve it, if it continues then it may be time to get concerned.

Firmino is a different issue altogether, hes been mostly poor to mediocre for the last 12 months except a puprle patch around Christmas. He never really looks like scoring any more and some of his play has become really self indulgent, pointless flicks and casually misplaced passes are too common. Hes playing every game as if we have a 3 goal lead.
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Bobby is a concern.

He's still occupies space though, which is his primary job, even if we don't recognise that. That allows Salah to wreak havoc & Mane to get past defenders. It's almost impossible to quantify with stats, like Gini's role is, but it does make a difference.
 
FoxForceFive said:
As I told my TWELVE YEAR OLD son, you don't judge players on a few games, & you definitely dont do so if they've already proven their quality in the past for you.

Both Bobby & Allison have more than proven their worth, & Allison made himself known enough today to make think he'll be fine.
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And I’m not judging their entire career to date or into the future. I’m judging on their current form which stinks. Firmino more so who has been poor for a long time. Can they reproduce again in the future? Sure and I’m confident they will be but at the moment both are poor.
 
Jones added a body in the final third for us. He was always in and around trying to be the third man to form the triangle for us to do some quick passing. The Leeds defence couldn't cope after he came on and he was somewhat instrumental in our win.
 
Dreambeliever said:
Jones could have a breakout season. Here’s hoping.
Our midfield was too easily played through.
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True...

Also I think there is an overreaction... We still in preseason mode, fitness is being built up...

Leeds looked sharp because they finished their league business early...

Also the way we pay it takes a lot out of our midfield... Not many teams who play like us keep doing it year after year...even Klopp's Dortmund burnt out... This time I think Klopp will want to have learnt from previous situation, Klopp always seems to have a new tactical tweak each season so maybe the players are still getting used to it as well.

We won so that's all that matters
 
FoxForceFive said:
As I told my TWELVE YEAR OLD son, you don't judge players on a few games, & you definitely dont do so if they've already proven their quality in the past for you.

Both Bobby & Allison have more than proven their worth, & Allison made himself known enough today to make think he'll be fine.
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A more convincing argument would have been "Dreamy agrees with you"
 
keniget said:
Was thinking the same thing. We have been giving up high quality chances but still... I can’t remember the last time he bailed the defense out.
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Didn't he come racing out at one point and force one of their strikers away from the goal? That was quick, decisive and shut down a chance. As for the goals, I was surprised when the first one went in, but two of our defenders came in from different directions to block it and failed, and the strike was excellent, so I'm not inclined to blame him much for that; the second was a VVD howler; and the third came from the striker really cleverly using two players in front as shields and then hitting a great shot - I don't think any keeper would have seen that earlier or saved it. So I don't think he's done much wrong. It's that back four that's the problem.
 
Yeah, I'm not blaming Alisson for any of the goals. It's just weird not seeing him save everything these days.
 
gkmacca said:
Didn't he come racing out at one point and force one of their strikers away from the goal? That was quick, decisive and shut down a chance. As for the goals, I was surprised when the first one went in, but two of our defenders came in from different directions to block it and failed, and the strike was excellent, so I'm not inclined to blame him much for that; the second was a VVD howler; and the third came from the striker really cleverly using two players in front as shields and then hitting a great shot - I don't think any keeper would have seen that earlier or saved it. So I don't think he's done much wrong. It's that back four that's the problem.
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I don't think he's a top, top keeper. He's fairly reliable and he's young enough to progress. But I don't think he's up there with Reina (at his best) and Clemence. I was watching back some of our big games from the last few years, and some of the goals he conceded, I couldn't recall him getting any flack for, but some of them were awful. Bernado Silva beat him at the near post, it was a sweet hit, but as a top keeper and the angle Silva hit it from, he should have had it covered.

There's certainly room for improvement, but there aren't that many great keepers around, he's good, but he's not infallible.
 
He may not be amongst the best ever to play for us, but his innate coolness and calmness is exactly what we needed, more than any keeper we've had
 
Alisson's superior to Reina by a good margin. He's the best keeper I've seen at Liverpool in my time, and easily one of the best in the world at the moment.
 
I think all our players have looked a bit off since the pandemic. van Dijk and Alisson, in particular, have looked a little short of their absolutely incredible standards, but let's not forget how good these two are. If we've won the league, it's because these two have transformed our side. We were a very good attacking and pressing team in 2018. They've come in and elevated us to a multiple-trophy winning side.

They'll both go down as all-time greats.
 
In our "bad" years, I would often comment that it's like some fans forget that form is a real thing.

The last few years seem to have made even more people forget this because we've been so consistently good for so long.

Whatever happened to 3 points is all that matters, every player/team has an off day, etc?

It's amusing to see how few "bad" performances it took for our world's best to start becoming shit.
 
Mamma Mia said:
In our "bad" years, I would often comment that it's like some fans forget that form is a real thing.

The last few years seem to have made even more people forget this because we've been so consistently good for so long.

Whatever happened to 3 points is all that matters, every player/team has an off day, etc?

It's amusing to see how few "bad" performances it took for our world's best to start becoming shit.
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Yeah, I'm perfectly happy to say post lockdown form doesn't count & to write off the first twothree weeks form this season as being our usual poor form after a break.

If it continues after that, or if we don't at least show signs of improving, I'll be worried.

I don't think we had many clean sheets at all at the start of last season either (haven't checked so maybe wrong).
 
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