Liverpool Announce Financial Results

[King Binny]

Also, there is fucking zero point being in that stupid bastard europa league. You'd be better off sending out the u18's if you qualify for that thing.

Just got reminded about this:

[article]The United board do view the Europa League as a competition they want to enter and win next season, with the prime incentive being the fact that the winners will quality for the 2015-16 Champions League for the first time, under new Uefa rules.

Victory in next year’s Europa League final in Warsaw’s National Stadium would mean United enter the play-off round of the following season’s Champions League, if they have not already qualified through the Premier League.

The qualification rule change was introduced by Uefa’s executive committee in an attempt to add greater importance to the Europa League amid concerns that teams from some of the major leagues do not take the competition – which replaced the Uefa Cup in 2009 – seriously enough.[/article]

 

[Mors]

It is an incentive, but I still think financially and all the extra games, against rubbish opposition, on rubbish pitches, still outweigh bothering with it.
If your u18's reach the later stages then it's worth considering getting the first team out there to win it though. It just puts to much strain on the players. You just couldn't afford to get your star player injured on a thursday night, playing in the arse end of europe against FC howsurmum.
I'm all for the scum getting into it next season and taking it seriously though, it could fuck up their league campaign again. That combined with agent moyes.

 

[the count]

Liverpool escape potential FFP penalties

Thursday, 06 March 2014

Liverpool will not have to pass UEFA's Financial Fair Play (FFP) 'break-even' rule to participate in next season's Champions League qualification, should Brendan Rodgers' side secure qualification.
UEFA have announced that only the clubs who took part in this season's Champions League and Europa League are currently being assessed meaning the Reds will face no threat of sanctions this summer for failing to break even as they were not involved in either competition this season.
76 of the 237 clubs that are being assessed face sanctions and possible disqualification from next season's competitions if they fail to comply with Financial Fair Play.
Earlier this week Liverpool announced losses of £49.8million up to the end of May 2013 and an additional £40.5m over the previous 10 months prompting fears that the club may fail to comply with FFP rules.
Liverpool hope to write off a £38m loan from owners Fenway Sports Group and include income from a new bumper Premier League TV deal by the time they are assessed next autumn, should they qualify for future UEFA competitions.

 

[Rosco]

There's a loophole none of the regular moaners will be moaning about

 

[StevieM]

There's a loophole none of the regular moaners will be moaning about

Which is?

 

[Rosco]

Which is?

That one in the article above my post

 

[StevieM]

That one in the article above my post

So we better make a profit next year...

 

[localny]

I don't want to take this off topic but it hardly seems worth its own thread.

Why would Canadians have to go to the pub to watch the match? Surely they can subscribe to the same service the pub is?

That Pub service is only available to businesses (run by premium Sports, a reformulation of Setanta). They didn't have residential rights.

 

[Brizzle]

There's a loophole none of the regular moaners will be moaning about

The loan from the owners?
Or the fact you aren't in a UEFA competition?

 

[StevieM]

The loan from the owners?
Or the fact you aren't in a UEFA competition?

"Currently being assessed", suggests us not being in European competition doesn't mean we won't be assessed after UEFA finish with those that are.

Now, I'm not a finance whizz - but my understanding is that loans had to be converted to equity to be discounted - and minor sure how you could convert a loan to equity in something you already have 100% ownership of.

Besides, I thought the FSG loan was to cover a debt - or more accurately re-finance a debt, as it would probably be to reduce interest payments and/or change schedule of re-payments.

Might be wrong.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

"Currently being assessed", suggests us not being in European competition doesn't mean we won't be assessed after UEFA finish with those that are.

Now, I'm not a finance whizz - but my understanding is that loans had to be converted to equity to be discounted - and minor sure how you could convert a loan to equity in something you already have 100% ownership of.

Besides, I thought the FSG loan was to cover a debt - or more accurately re-finance a debt, as it would probably be to reduce interest payments and/or change schedule of re-payments.

Might be wrong.

I think the stipulation is that you have to convert loans to equity in order to have the max. break even limits at 45m euros and (subsequently) 30m euros. If not, the limit is 5m euros.

As for the conversion - I believe you can do that through the creation of more shares; the loans can then be traded for those shares. You still own 100%, but now there are more shares, and the value per share is lower.

 

[Hyena]

I think Rosco is referring to the loans being written off.

 

[StevieM]

As for the conversion - I believe you can do that through the creation of more shares; the loans can then be traded for those shares. You still own 100%, but now there are more shares, and the value per share is lower.

I'd hope that FFP rules wouldn't have such a blatantly obvious loophole as that - which would give oil rich teams a legitimate way to continue to prop themselves up.

Surely if you own 100%, then there is only 1 share

 

[Rosco]

There's still a limit at present of 45m a year though Stevie and that gets reduced over time

This is one of the rules we are again taking advantage of.

So people need to rid themselves of this we're so perfect and it's nasty big clubs that are trying to take advantage of the rules.

We're not quite so ridiculously blatant - but we're making full use of all of these various provisions

 

[StevieM]

I think Rosco is referring to the loans being written off.

... But debt is seperate to loss. The only bit debt contributes to loss is repayments.

I know there's a seperate clause relating to levels of debt allowed - and the owners righting off a loan debt is obviously good.

However, I didn't think the debt was much of an issue - since we're about to go in to more debt to build a stadium.

 

[Hyena]

I'd hope that FFP rules wouldn't have such a blatantly obvious loophole as that - which would give oil rich teams a legitimate way to continue to prop themselves up.

Surely if you own 100%, then there is only 1 share

Presumably, what they'll do is have a related company invest in those shares. In theory you can still police this, but with oil rich teams having ties to sovereign nations and their government-linked companies etc it will be almost impossible.

 

[StevieM]

Presumably, what they'll do is have a related company invest in those shares. In theory you can still police this, but with oil rich teams having ties to sovereign nations and their government-linked companies etc it will be almost impossible.

Wouldn't it be easier to just have it as a straight commercial deal then?

Official sponsor of the end of season piss-up or naming rights for the toilets?

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

Wouldn't it be easier to just have it as a straight commercial deal then?

Official sponsor of the end of season piss-up or naming rights for the toilets?

Just guessing - maybe for tax reasons? For example, a commercial deal would be revenue, go into the bottomline and hence taxable profit (if any), whereas an interest-free loan that then gets converted into equity doesn't get taxed?

 

[StevieM]

Just guessing - maybe for tax reasons? For example, a commercial deal would be revenue, go into the bottomline and hence taxable profit (if any), whereas an interest-free loan that then gets converted into equity doesn't get taxed?

As if any premier league club is making a profit... 🙂

The name of the game is to avoid making enough losses to attract sanctions.

Besides... Given that these people own the club... They can decide to take whatever amount of money they want out of the club for themselves - and rightly so- there's no danger of "taxable profit".