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[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35573.msg936897#msg936897 date=1251837671]
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=35573.msg936895#msg936895 date=1251837559]
Rafa isn't the reason we lost the league.
The lack of Stevie & Nando playing time was.
[/quote]
The players that we had available over the course of the season could have won the league if Rafa had used them differently in various stages of the campaign.
[/quote]
I disagree.
Without Torres we are toothless up front, without Gerrard; we generally seem to be lacklustre all over the pitch.
Both are vital to a side's tital challenge. If you'd taken Lampard and Anelka out for chunks of last season or Rooney and Ronaldo or whatever; you'd get exactly the same effect, just to a lesser extent due to their greater strength in depth.
We lose one, let alone two and we've got nowhere near an adequate replacement for either.
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=35573.msg936895#msg936895 date=1251837559]
Rafa isn't the reason we lost the league.
The lack of Stevie & Nando playing time was.
[/quote]
The players that we had available over the course of the season could have won the league if Rafa had used them differently in various stages of the campaign.
[/quote]
I disagree.
Without Torres we are toothless up front, without Gerrard; we generally seem to be lacklustre all over the pitch.
Both are vital to a side's tital challenge. If you'd taken Lampard and Anelka out for chunks of last season or Rooney and Ronaldo or whatever; you'd get exactly the same effect, just to a lesser extent due to their greater strength in depth.
We lose one, let alone two and we've got nowhere near an adequate replacement for either.
In response to all of you, in general...
This topic and the defense of Rafa here makes my head want to explode.
I know that he did a wonderful job for much of the season. I know that he masterminded 12 points against those two showers. I know we challanged late into the season. I know that he deserves credit for that. I have said that, many times.
But the fact that he did a good job in many aspects of last season doesn't mean that he didn't also f#$! things up at other times. You've all acknowledged this... The fact that that getting to 2nd was unexpected and welcome if judged in a vaccum, doesn't mean that the chances missed to actually win the f#$!ing thing should be ignored.
So, if we agree that he DID f#$! things up for periods of the season, I don't understand how he's NOT responsible for the 4 points we dropped that cost us the title...
HE chose to settle for a draw at Highbury. HE chose to bring on Lucas and leave Keane on the bench against Hull. HE chose to rest Xabi when Stevie was injured against Fulham. HE chose to drop Keane just as he was starting to score goals. HE chose to take Stevie off when we had 8 minutes to find a winner - and THAT was an enormous "f#$! you!" to the fans, by the way - and HE chose to persist with his usual favourites despite their hideous form for long spells.
All of those factors (and others that I haven't mention) contributed to at least 4 dropped points. And all the time it was happening, we were told "He's fine, we're leading...". Well, it wasn't fine in the end, was it?
So, you'll have to forgive me if I look at last season as a title that was pissed away, rather than an impossible dream that we narrowly missd out on.
This topic and the defense of Rafa here makes my head want to explode.
I know that he did a wonderful job for much of the season. I know that he masterminded 12 points against those two showers. I know we challanged late into the season. I know that he deserves credit for that. I have said that, many times.
But the fact that he did a good job in many aspects of last season doesn't mean that he didn't also f#$! things up at other times. You've all acknowledged this... The fact that that getting to 2nd was unexpected and welcome if judged in a vaccum, doesn't mean that the chances missed to actually win the f#$!ing thing should be ignored.
So, if we agree that he DID f#$! things up for periods of the season, I don't understand how he's NOT responsible for the 4 points we dropped that cost us the title...
HE chose to settle for a draw at Highbury. HE chose to bring on Lucas and leave Keane on the bench against Hull. HE chose to rest Xabi when Stevie was injured against Fulham. HE chose to drop Keane just as he was starting to score goals. HE chose to take Stevie off when we had 8 minutes to find a winner - and THAT was an enormous "f#$! you!" to the fans, by the way - and HE chose to persist with his usual favourites despite their hideous form for long spells.
All of those factors (and others that I haven't mention) contributed to at least 4 dropped points. And all the time it was happening, we were told "He's fine, we're leading...". Well, it wasn't fine in the end, was it?
So, you'll have to forgive me if I look at last season as a title that was pissed away, rather than an impossible dream that we narrowly missd out on.
I don't hate Benitez. Hate is a strong word. There's a hell of a lot I've disagreed with.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35573.msg936918#msg936918 date=1251839108]
In response to all of you, in general...
This topic and the defense of Rafa here makes my head want to explode.
I know that he did a wonderful job for much of the season. I know that he masterminded 12 points against those two showers. I know we challanged late into the season. I know that he deserves credit for that. I have said that, many times.
But the fact that he did a good job in many aspects of last season doesn't mean that he didn't also f#$! things up at other times. You've all acknowledged this... The fact that that getting to 2nd was unexpected and welcome if judged in a vaccum, doesn't mean that the chances missed to actually win the f#$!ing thing should be ignored.
So, if we agree that he DID f#$! things up for periods of the season, I don't understand how he's NOT responsible for the 4 points we dropped that cost us the title...
HE chose to settle for a draw at Highbury. HE chose to bring on Lucas and leave Keane on the bench against Hull. HE chose to rest Xabi when Stevie was injured against Fulham. HE chose to drop Keane just as he was starting to score goals. HE chose to take Stevie off when we had 8 minutes to find a winner - and THAT was an enormous "f#$! you!" to the fans, by the way - and HE chose to persist with his usual favourites despite their hideous form for long spells.
All of those factors (and others that I haven't mention) contributed to at least 4 dropped points. And all the time it was happening, we were told "He's fine, we're leading...". Well, it wasn't fine in the end, was it?
So, you'll have to forgive me if I look at last season as a title that was pissed away, rather than an impossible dream that we narrowly missd out on.
[/quote]
Managers make mistakes during a season shocker.
I take your point SOME of his decisions on last season SUCKED.
FACT.
But to suggest they weren't heavily outweighed by the good ones he made and how he got the team actually playing is not just biased its blinkered. Rafa pissed the title away did he??
If you can cast your mind back at one point last season the pundits were describing United as the best United team ever... thats a true fact that is .... people forgot about soon enough when we fucking destroyed them at OT.
The same United team who the vast majority of people thought would walk the CL final but thankfully Fergie, ol ginsoak himself, fuck loads of titles, fucked up his teams tactics and selection in the final. During a season managers will make bad decisions its part of the job, every single manager in the world does it ALL of them. We didn't not win last season due to Rafa, rafa didnt make macheda come on and score in the 90th min against Villa did he? rafa wasn't responsible for two hamstring injuries to Torres and months out for Stevie.
The fact is regardless Rafa squeezed out pretty much everything out of that team last year, and as for listing games you could put it yet another way ... shitty ref against Stoke at home cost us two points right there.... fucking ludicrous luck against Spurs away two more... bollox if it wasn't for a howler from Reina we could have come back from a three goal deficit against Chelsea at the bridge... but if shit were food there would be no famine eh...
To pick out just the bad stuff rafa did and therefore accuse him of fucing up the season...its a bit....No it's a lot..... ah well.... there is only one way to shut you up i suppose.
Lets hope the team win it so we can stop with this nonsense.
In response to all of you, in general...
This topic and the defense of Rafa here makes my head want to explode.
I know that he did a wonderful job for much of the season. I know that he masterminded 12 points against those two showers. I know we challanged late into the season. I know that he deserves credit for that. I have said that, many times.
But the fact that he did a good job in many aspects of last season doesn't mean that he didn't also f#$! things up at other times. You've all acknowledged this... The fact that that getting to 2nd was unexpected and welcome if judged in a vaccum, doesn't mean that the chances missed to actually win the f#$!ing thing should be ignored.
So, if we agree that he DID f#$! things up for periods of the season, I don't understand how he's NOT responsible for the 4 points we dropped that cost us the title...
HE chose to settle for a draw at Highbury. HE chose to bring on Lucas and leave Keane on the bench against Hull. HE chose to rest Xabi when Stevie was injured against Fulham. HE chose to drop Keane just as he was starting to score goals. HE chose to take Stevie off when we had 8 minutes to find a winner - and THAT was an enormous "f#$! you!" to the fans, by the way - and HE chose to persist with his usual favourites despite their hideous form for long spells.
All of those factors (and others that I haven't mention) contributed to at least 4 dropped points. And all the time it was happening, we were told "He's fine, we're leading...". Well, it wasn't fine in the end, was it?
So, you'll have to forgive me if I look at last season as a title that was pissed away, rather than an impossible dream that we narrowly missd out on.
[/quote]
Managers make mistakes during a season shocker.
I take your point SOME of his decisions on last season SUCKED.
FACT.
But to suggest they weren't heavily outweighed by the good ones he made and how he got the team actually playing is not just biased its blinkered. Rafa pissed the title away did he??
If you can cast your mind back at one point last season the pundits were describing United as the best United team ever... thats a true fact that is .... people forgot about soon enough when we fucking destroyed them at OT.
The same United team who the vast majority of people thought would walk the CL final but thankfully Fergie, ol ginsoak himself, fuck loads of titles, fucked up his teams tactics and selection in the final. During a season managers will make bad decisions its part of the job, every single manager in the world does it ALL of them. We didn't not win last season due to Rafa, rafa didnt make macheda come on and score in the 90th min against Villa did he? rafa wasn't responsible for two hamstring injuries to Torres and months out for Stevie.
The fact is regardless Rafa squeezed out pretty much everything out of that team last year, and as for listing games you could put it yet another way ... shitty ref against Stoke at home cost us two points right there.... fucking ludicrous luck against Spurs away two more... bollox if it wasn't for a howler from Reina we could have come back from a three goal deficit against Chelsea at the bridge... but if shit were food there would be no famine eh...
To pick out just the bad stuff rafa did and therefore accuse him of fucing up the season...its a bit....No it's a lot..... ah well.... there is only one way to shut you up i suppose.
Lets hope the team win it so we can stop with this nonsense.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35573.msg936862#msg936862 date=1251834394]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936692#msg936692 date=1251826308]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35573.msg936682#msg936682 date=1251825706]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936678#msg936678 date=1251825480]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35573.msg936657#msg936657 date=1251824268]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=35573.msg936649#msg936649 date=1251823610]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936642#msg936642 date=1251822984]
A huge opportunity missed.
At least every single Liverpool fan now should be fully aware of what type of owners we have.
[/quote]
Yep.. and Gerrard and Carra aren't getting any younger either.. and with Citeh on the up, and soon to be pushing for a CL spot, this could conceivably be our best chance of winning it (possibly missed) for the next 5-10years. Time will tell, but I can't help but feel we'll be talking about this missed opportunity much like we talk about the one under Houllier 5/6years ago.
[/quote]
LAST season was our best chance in the past 20 years, mate... If a chance has been missed here, it was last season, not this summer.
[/quote]
Everyone agrees that we messed up last summer (thats a given), but it's equally clear that we've missed a huge opportunity again this summer too (for different reasons).
If Rafa had been allowed to sign just one more quality player, we'd be in a much stronger position, yet instead our lying bastard owners have decided it's in "our" better interests to make a profit.
[/quote]Its not last summer we fucked it. It was on the pitch. It was taking off a striker for Lucas at 0-0, it was leaving Keane out when he was confident after a brace, it was playing Kuyt when he was off form badly...etc...etc Rafa cost us the title last year, not just in summer but in Autumn too.
[/quote]
I don't buy that at all Oncy, I think Rafa did an excellent job last season.
Personally i think if anything cost us, it was the lack of experience of being in a title race more than anything else.
[/quote]
So, he was right to take off a striker for Lucas in a game where we desperately needed a goal, was he?
He should have taken Stevie G off when we had 8 minutes to find a winner against Wigan, should he?
He was correct in playing for a draw against ten man, Cesc-less Arsenal with 30 minutes left, was he?
He did the right thing, dropping Keane just as he's gotten 3 goals in 2 games and was starting to look like he had a little confidence about him, did he?
Rafa is the reason we finished 2nd place last season.
You think that he deserves emmense credit for that.
I think he deserves some credit for that. But also critisism.
Because we should have won the league.
[/quote]
People are always going to try to find someone to blame when things don't go as they'd like them to, on this occasion you've chosen to aim your frustration at Rafa.
Personally i think that Rafa got the best out of our squad last season and did an excellent job (Look at some of the personal records we set last season for proof of this).
Rather than going for the easy cheap shots at the manager that has improved us each season, i'd suggest that the following 2 points were in fact the main reasons why we failed to win the title.
G&T only played 12 (if i remember right) times together
A lack of experience of being in a title race.
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936692#msg936692 date=1251826308]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35573.msg936682#msg936682 date=1251825706]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936678#msg936678 date=1251825480]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35573.msg936657#msg936657 date=1251824268]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=35573.msg936649#msg936649 date=1251823610]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936642#msg936642 date=1251822984]
A huge opportunity missed.
At least every single Liverpool fan now should be fully aware of what type of owners we have.
[/quote]
Yep.. and Gerrard and Carra aren't getting any younger either.. and with Citeh on the up, and soon to be pushing for a CL spot, this could conceivably be our best chance of winning it (possibly missed) for the next 5-10years. Time will tell, but I can't help but feel we'll be talking about this missed opportunity much like we talk about the one under Houllier 5/6years ago.
[/quote]
LAST season was our best chance in the past 20 years, mate... If a chance has been missed here, it was last season, not this summer.
[/quote]
Everyone agrees that we messed up last summer (thats a given), but it's equally clear that we've missed a huge opportunity again this summer too (for different reasons).
If Rafa had been allowed to sign just one more quality player, we'd be in a much stronger position, yet instead our lying bastard owners have decided it's in "our" better interests to make a profit.
[/quote]Its not last summer we fucked it. It was on the pitch. It was taking off a striker for Lucas at 0-0, it was leaving Keane out when he was confident after a brace, it was playing Kuyt when he was off form badly...etc...etc Rafa cost us the title last year, not just in summer but in Autumn too.
[/quote]
I don't buy that at all Oncy, I think Rafa did an excellent job last season.
Personally i think if anything cost us, it was the lack of experience of being in a title race more than anything else.
[/quote]
So, he was right to take off a striker for Lucas in a game where we desperately needed a goal, was he?
He should have taken Stevie G off when we had 8 minutes to find a winner against Wigan, should he?
He was correct in playing for a draw against ten man, Cesc-less Arsenal with 30 minutes left, was he?
He did the right thing, dropping Keane just as he's gotten 3 goals in 2 games and was starting to look like he had a little confidence about him, did he?
Rafa is the reason we finished 2nd place last season.
You think that he deserves emmense credit for that.
I think he deserves some credit for that. But also critisism.
Because we should have won the league.
[/quote]
People are always going to try to find someone to blame when things don't go as they'd like them to, on this occasion you've chosen to aim your frustration at Rafa.
Personally i think that Rafa got the best out of our squad last season and did an excellent job (Look at some of the personal records we set last season for proof of this).
Rather than going for the easy cheap shots at the manager that has improved us each season, i'd suggest that the following 2 points were in fact the main reasons why we failed to win the title.
G&T only played 12 (if i remember right) times together
A lack of experience of being in a title race.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35573.msg936918#msg936918 date=1251839108]
In response to all of you, in general...
This topic and the defense of Rafa here makes my head want to explode.
I know that he did a wonderful job for much of the season. I know that he masterminded 12 points against those two showers. I know we challanged late into the season. I know that he deserves credit for that. I have said that, many times.
But the fact that he did a good job in many aspects of last season doesn't mean that he didn't also f#$! things up at other times. You've all acknowledged this... The fact that that getting to 2nd was unexpected and welcome if judged in a vaccum, doesn't mean that the chances missed to actually win the f#$!ing thing should be ignored.
So, if we agree that he DID f#$! things up for periods of the season, I don't understand how he's NOT responsible for the 4 points we dropped that cost us the title...
HE chose to settle for a draw at Highbury. HE chose to bring on Lucas and leave Keane on the bench against Hull. HE chose to rest Xabi when Stevie was injured against Fulham. HE chose to drop Keane just as he was starting to score goals. HE chose to take Stevie off when we had 8 minutes to find a winner - and THAT was an enormous "f#$! you!" to the fans, by the way - and HE chose to persist with his usual favourites despite their hideous form for long spells.
All of those factors (and others that I haven't mention) contributed to at least 4 dropped points. And all the time it was happening, we were told "He's fine, we're leading...". Well, it wasn't fine in the end, was it?
So, you'll have to forgive me if I look at last season as a title that was pissed away, rather than an impossible dream that we narrowly missd out on.
[/quote]
Let me say first off that I like Rafa a lot.
I can't argue with what you're saying there. Rafa made mistakes that if corrected may have won us the title. It's good to be able to acknowledge that as LFC fans.
I think we should weigh the good against the bad when looking back to last season and when I do that I think Rafa comes out with a lot of credit. We can't expect our manager to be perfect. All we can do is hope that he learns from his mistakes, and gets a tad closer to perfection next time. That and gets lucky.
In response to all of you, in general...
This topic and the defense of Rafa here makes my head want to explode.
I know that he did a wonderful job for much of the season. I know that he masterminded 12 points against those two showers. I know we challanged late into the season. I know that he deserves credit for that. I have said that, many times.
But the fact that he did a good job in many aspects of last season doesn't mean that he didn't also f#$! things up at other times. You've all acknowledged this... The fact that that getting to 2nd was unexpected and welcome if judged in a vaccum, doesn't mean that the chances missed to actually win the f#$!ing thing should be ignored.
So, if we agree that he DID f#$! things up for periods of the season, I don't understand how he's NOT responsible for the 4 points we dropped that cost us the title...
HE chose to settle for a draw at Highbury. HE chose to bring on Lucas and leave Keane on the bench against Hull. HE chose to rest Xabi when Stevie was injured against Fulham. HE chose to drop Keane just as he was starting to score goals. HE chose to take Stevie off when we had 8 minutes to find a winner - and THAT was an enormous "f#$! you!" to the fans, by the way - and HE chose to persist with his usual favourites despite their hideous form for long spells.
All of those factors (and others that I haven't mention) contributed to at least 4 dropped points. And all the time it was happening, we were told "He's fine, we're leading...". Well, it wasn't fine in the end, was it?
So, you'll have to forgive me if I look at last season as a title that was pissed away, rather than an impossible dream that we narrowly missd out on.
[/quote]
Let me say first off that I like Rafa a lot.
I can't argue with what you're saying there. Rafa made mistakes that if corrected may have won us the title. It's good to be able to acknowledge that as LFC fans.
I think we should weigh the good against the bad when looking back to last season and when I do that I think Rafa comes out with a lot of credit. We can't expect our manager to be perfect. All we can do is hope that he learns from his mistakes, and gets a tad closer to perfection next time. That and gets lucky.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=35573.msg936971#msg936971 date=1251845796]
Welcome to the site Barbarian
[/quote]
Thank you kindly
Welcome to the site Barbarian
[/quote]
Thank you kindly
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=35573.msg936888#msg936888 date=1251836954]
Do any of our Mods not hate Rafa?
I'm aware one of our departing ones wasn't that fussed like.
[/quote]
I dont hate him by any means, in fact he's the best manager we've had in twenty years.
I just get annoyed that his one or two failings have cost us dear. We'd be hard pushed to find anyone better though, in fact I'd say it was impossible to under our current ownership, so he has my backing all the way.
Do any of our Mods not hate Rafa?
I'm aware one of our departing ones wasn't that fussed like.
[/quote]
I dont hate him by any means, in fact he's the best manager we've had in twenty years.
I just get annoyed that his one or two failings have cost us dear. We'd be hard pushed to find anyone better though, in fact I'd say it was impossible to under our current ownership, so he has my backing all the way.
Fantastic ambition shown by the owners. Did they not promise the gaffer biggish £ to spend over the summer???
I personally feel theyre destroying our club! we need owners that will back the manager!
Im not a fan that complains cos i love my team but i find it very frustrating
I personally feel theyre destroying our club! we need owners that will back the manager!
Im not a fan that complains cos i love my team but i find it very frustrating
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=35573.msg936979#msg936979 date=1251847082]
Fantastic ambition shown by the owners. Did they not promise the gaffer biggish £ to spend over the summer???
I personally feel theyre destroying our club! we need owners that will back the manager!
Im not a fan that complains cos i love my team but i find it very frustrating
[/quote]Its only rumoured he was to be given big money. The agreement could have been sales only.
It would of course be better to have rich owners who didnt create debt to buy us, but ultimately we would owe them (the owners) in the same way we now owe the banks.
Chelsea owe Abramovich 750m which he will one day want to get back. The only difference is he is their bank and ours is rbs. Ultimately the interest payments are a huge hinderence, but in 3 years we will be owned and debt free (and hopefully ready to build our 70m stadium) while Chelsea will be still hugely in debt as will United.
I wish we had more money for players, i wish we had more for a stadium, but ultimately im happy with where the club is at.
Fantastic ambition shown by the owners. Did they not promise the gaffer biggish £ to spend over the summer???
I personally feel theyre destroying our club! we need owners that will back the manager!
Im not a fan that complains cos i love my team but i find it very frustrating
[/quote]Its only rumoured he was to be given big money. The agreement could have been sales only.
It would of course be better to have rich owners who didnt create debt to buy us, but ultimately we would owe them (the owners) in the same way we now owe the banks.
Chelsea owe Abramovich 750m which he will one day want to get back. The only difference is he is their bank and ours is rbs. Ultimately the interest payments are a huge hinderence, but in 3 years we will be owned and debt free (and hopefully ready to build our 70m stadium) while Chelsea will be still hugely in debt as will United.
I wish we had more money for players, i wish we had more for a stadium, but ultimately im happy with where the club is at.
I wonder if Rafa would have spent £17m on GJ, if he knew the purse was going to get zipped up?
Personally it looks like a great buy, but I think we are pretty fucked without by not strengthening with a forward.
I share Onceys views on Rafa, although although I still remain unconvinced on all aspects, I still worry that he refuses to learn from his mistakes.
regards
Personally it looks like a great buy, but I think we are pretty fucked without by not strengthening with a forward.
I share Onceys views on Rafa, although although I still remain unconvinced on all aspects, I still worry that he refuses to learn from his mistakes.
regards
On another matter. It looks to me like any hope we ever had of a return on Dossena was pie in the sky, he will end up going on a free or bugger all next year. Clearly the Italians are not as stupid as we thought.
Still he was probably a Parry signing too
regards
Still he was probably a Parry signing too
regards
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=35573.msg936947#msg936947 date=1251841271]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35573.msg936918#msg936918 date=1251839108]
In response to all of you, in general...
This topic and the defense of Rafa here makes my head want to explode.
I know that he did a wonderful job for much of the season. I know that he masterminded 12 points against those two showers. I know we challanged late into the season. I know that he deserves credit for that. I have said that, many times.
But the fact that he did a good job in many aspects of last season doesn't mean that he didn't also f#$! things up at other times. You've all acknowledged this... The fact that that getting to 2nd was unexpected and welcome if judged in a vaccum, doesn't mean that the chances missed to actually win the f#$!ing thing should be ignored.
So, if we agree that he DID f#$! things up for periods of the season, I don't understand how he's NOT responsible for the 4 points we dropped that cost us the title...
HE chose to settle for a draw at Highbury. HE chose to bring on Lucas and leave Keane on the bench against Hull. HE chose to rest Xabi when Stevie was injured against Fulham. HE chose to drop Keane just as he was starting to score goals. HE chose to take Stevie off when we had 8 minutes to find a winner - and THAT was an enormous "f#$! you!" to the fans, by the way - and HE chose to persist with his usual favourites despite their hideous form for long spells.
All of those factors (and others that I haven't mention) contributed to at least 4 dropped points. And all the time it was happening, we were told "He's fine, we're leading...". Well, it wasn't fine in the end, was it?
So, you'll have to forgive me if I look at last season as a title that was pissed away, rather than an impossible dream that we narrowly missd out on.
[/quote]
Managers make mistakes during a season shocker.
I take your point SOME of his decisions on last season SUCKED.
FACT.
But to suggest they weren't heavily outweighed by the good ones he made and how he got the team actually playing is not just biased its blinkered. Rafa pissed the title away did he??
If you can cast your mind back at one point last season the pundits were describing United as the best United team ever... thats a true fact that is .... people forgot about soon enough when we fucking destroyed them at OT.
The same United team who the vast majority of people thought would walk the CL final but thankfully Fergie, ol ginsoak himself, fuck loads of titles, fucked up his teams tactics and selection in the final. During a season managers will make bad decisions its part of the job, every single manager in the world does it ALL of them. We didn't not win last season due to Rafa, rafa didnt make macheda come on and score in the 90th min against Villa did he? rafa wasn't responsible for two hamstring injuries to Torres and months out for Stevie.
The fact is regardless Rafa squeezed out pretty much everything out of that team last year, and as for listing games you could put it yet another way ... shitty ref against Stoke at home cost us two points right there.... fucking ludicrous luck against Spurs away two more... bollox if it wasn't for a howler from Reina we could have come back from a three goal deficit against Chelsea at the bridge... but if shit were food there would be no famine eh...
To pick out just the bad stuff rafa did and therefore accuse him of fucing up the season...its a bit....No it's a lot..... ah well.... there is only one way to shut you up i suppose.
Lets hope the team win it so we can stop with this nonsense.
[/quote]
See, this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about... Did you even read my post? Miss the first part about doing a great job for most of the season, did you? How convenient.
I didn't pick out JUST the bad stuff. Read it again. But I did use examples to explain my position. Rafa put us in position to win the title. SOME of Rafa's decisions cost us the points that would have seen us crowned champions. Therefore, he deserves praise for the good and critisism for the bad...
You say that he squeezed everything he could have out of the team. I disagree. We outplayed unted and chelsea twice, each, and without our best players almost each time. But the same 'go-for-it' mentality wasn't there when we were faced with cannon fodder. Rafa deserves credit for the way he mastered ginsoak and Scholari. But doesn't he also then deserve critisism for how he wilted at Highbury, afraid to try to win the match? I mean, it was he that picked the team, decided upon the formations, made the substitutions and ran the show, wasn't it?
The fact that you don't like what I'm saying, doesn't make it wrong. He made decisions that cost us the title. Every word that I wrote in the "HE" paragraph above is accurate. The fact that there were other, equally valid factors that also played a part in our final position in the league don't negate that fact.
I suppose it all depends on one's expectations, doesn't it? You're satisfied by narrowly losing out in a race that we should have won, simply because we didn't expect to be in it in the first place.
Not me. Sorry if you don't like it.
No, actually... I'm not.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35573.msg936918#msg936918 date=1251839108]
In response to all of you, in general...
This topic and the defense of Rafa here makes my head want to explode.
I know that he did a wonderful job for much of the season. I know that he masterminded 12 points against those two showers. I know we challanged late into the season. I know that he deserves credit for that. I have said that, many times.
But the fact that he did a good job in many aspects of last season doesn't mean that he didn't also f#$! things up at other times. You've all acknowledged this... The fact that that getting to 2nd was unexpected and welcome if judged in a vaccum, doesn't mean that the chances missed to actually win the f#$!ing thing should be ignored.
So, if we agree that he DID f#$! things up for periods of the season, I don't understand how he's NOT responsible for the 4 points we dropped that cost us the title...
HE chose to settle for a draw at Highbury. HE chose to bring on Lucas and leave Keane on the bench against Hull. HE chose to rest Xabi when Stevie was injured against Fulham. HE chose to drop Keane just as he was starting to score goals. HE chose to take Stevie off when we had 8 minutes to find a winner - and THAT was an enormous "f#$! you!" to the fans, by the way - and HE chose to persist with his usual favourites despite their hideous form for long spells.
All of those factors (and others that I haven't mention) contributed to at least 4 dropped points. And all the time it was happening, we were told "He's fine, we're leading...". Well, it wasn't fine in the end, was it?
So, you'll have to forgive me if I look at last season as a title that was pissed away, rather than an impossible dream that we narrowly missd out on.
[/quote]
Managers make mistakes during a season shocker.
I take your point SOME of his decisions on last season SUCKED.
FACT.
But to suggest they weren't heavily outweighed by the good ones he made and how he got the team actually playing is not just biased its blinkered. Rafa pissed the title away did he??
If you can cast your mind back at one point last season the pundits were describing United as the best United team ever... thats a true fact that is .... people forgot about soon enough when we fucking destroyed them at OT.
The same United team who the vast majority of people thought would walk the CL final but thankfully Fergie, ol ginsoak himself, fuck loads of titles, fucked up his teams tactics and selection in the final. During a season managers will make bad decisions its part of the job, every single manager in the world does it ALL of them. We didn't not win last season due to Rafa, rafa didnt make macheda come on and score in the 90th min against Villa did he? rafa wasn't responsible for two hamstring injuries to Torres and months out for Stevie.
The fact is regardless Rafa squeezed out pretty much everything out of that team last year, and as for listing games you could put it yet another way ... shitty ref against Stoke at home cost us two points right there.... fucking ludicrous luck against Spurs away two more... bollox if it wasn't for a howler from Reina we could have come back from a three goal deficit against Chelsea at the bridge... but if shit were food there would be no famine eh...
To pick out just the bad stuff rafa did and therefore accuse him of fucing up the season...its a bit....No it's a lot..... ah well.... there is only one way to shut you up i suppose.
Lets hope the team win it so we can stop with this nonsense.
[/quote]
See, this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about... Did you even read my post? Miss the first part about doing a great job for most of the season, did you? How convenient.
I didn't pick out JUST the bad stuff. Read it again. But I did use examples to explain my position. Rafa put us in position to win the title. SOME of Rafa's decisions cost us the points that would have seen us crowned champions. Therefore, he deserves praise for the good and critisism for the bad...
You say that he squeezed everything he could have out of the team. I disagree. We outplayed unted and chelsea twice, each, and without our best players almost each time. But the same 'go-for-it' mentality wasn't there when we were faced with cannon fodder. Rafa deserves credit for the way he mastered ginsoak and Scholari. But doesn't he also then deserve critisism for how he wilted at Highbury, afraid to try to win the match? I mean, it was he that picked the team, decided upon the formations, made the substitutions and ran the show, wasn't it?
The fact that you don't like what I'm saying, doesn't make it wrong. He made decisions that cost us the title. Every word that I wrote in the "HE" paragraph above is accurate. The fact that there were other, equally valid factors that also played a part in our final position in the league don't negate that fact.
I suppose it all depends on one's expectations, doesn't it? You're satisfied by narrowly losing out in a race that we should have won, simply because we didn't expect to be in it in the first place.
Not me. Sorry if you don't like it.
No, actually... I'm not.
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936960#msg936960 date=1251843463]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35573.msg936862#msg936862 date=1251834394]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936692#msg936692 date=1251826308]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35573.msg936682#msg936682 date=1251825706]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936678#msg936678 date=1251825480]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35573.msg936657#msg936657 date=1251824268]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=35573.msg936649#msg936649 date=1251823610]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936642#msg936642 date=1251822984]
A huge opportunity missed.
At least every single Liverpool fan now should be fully aware of what type of owners we have.
[/quote]
Yep.. and Gerrard and Carra aren't getting any younger either.. and with Citeh on the up, and soon to be pushing for a CL spot, this could conceivably be our best chance of winning it (possibly missed) for the next 5-10years. Time will tell, but I can't help but feel we'll be talking about this missed opportunity much like we talk about the one under Houllier 5/6years ago.
[/quote]
LAST season was our best chance in the past 20 years, mate... If a chance has been missed here, it was last season, not this summer.
[/quote]
Everyone agrees that we messed up last summer (thats a given), but it's equally clear that we've missed a huge opportunity again this summer too (for different reasons).
If Rafa had been allowed to sign just one more quality player, we'd be in a much stronger position, yet instead our lying bastard owners have decided it's in "our" better interests to make a profit.
[/quote]Its not last summer we fucked it. It was on the pitch. It was taking off a striker for Lucas at 0-0, it was leaving Keane out when he was confident after a brace, it was playing Kuyt when he was off form badly...etc...etc Rafa cost us the title last year, not just in summer but in Autumn too.
[/quote]
I don't buy that at all Oncy, I think Rafa did an excellent job last season.
Personally i think if anything cost us, it was the lack of experience of being in a title race more than anything else.
[/quote]
So, he was right to take off a striker for Lucas in a game where we desperately needed a goal, was he?
He should have taken Stevie G off when we had 8 minutes to find a winner against Wigan, should he?
He was correct in playing for a draw against ten man, Cesc-less Arsenal with 30 minutes left, was he?
He did the right thing, dropping Keane just as he's gotten 3 goals in 2 games and was starting to look like he had a little confidence about him, did he?
Rafa is the reason we finished 2nd place last season.
You think that he deserves emmense credit for that.
I think he deserves some credit for that. But also critisism.
Because we should have won the league.
[/quote]
People are always going to try to find someone to blame when things don't go as they'd like them to, on this occasion you've chosen to aim your frustration at Rafa.
Personally i think that Rafa got the best out of our squad last season and did an excellent job (Look at some of the personal records we set last season for proof of this).
Rather than going for the easy cheap shots at the manager that has improved us each season, i'd suggest that the following 2 points were in fact the main reasons why we failed to win the title.
G&T only played 12 (if i remember right) times together
A lack of experience of being in a title race.
[/quote]
I've chosen to blame the man who picked the team and made all the decisions, yes.
Personally, I think Rafa did a great job for 2/3 of the season, but the job he did for the other 1/3 cost us the title.
It's only a cheap shot if it's unwarrented. Therefore, I have not taken a cheap shot. I have pointed out several errors on Rafa's part that many people agree contributed to us losing the points that would have seen us crowns champions. And maybe it's easy because it's so glaringly obvious to those of us not determined to cannonise Rafa just yet, eh?
How can inexperience have cost us the title when we were the best team in the world during the run in..? It was our winter period that killed us, not end of season nerves. And I've said it 1,000 times... We beat better teams without G&T than we allowed to hold us when they did play, so that's not as huge a factor as many are making out. It's certainly not as big as a factor as some of the decisions that I've pointed out earlier.
But, there are none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE, so...
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35573.msg936862#msg936862 date=1251834394]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936692#msg936692 date=1251826308]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35573.msg936682#msg936682 date=1251825706]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936678#msg936678 date=1251825480]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35573.msg936657#msg936657 date=1251824268]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=35573.msg936649#msg936649 date=1251823610]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936642#msg936642 date=1251822984]
A huge opportunity missed.
At least every single Liverpool fan now should be fully aware of what type of owners we have.
[/quote]
Yep.. and Gerrard and Carra aren't getting any younger either.. and with Citeh on the up, and soon to be pushing for a CL spot, this could conceivably be our best chance of winning it (possibly missed) for the next 5-10years. Time will tell, but I can't help but feel we'll be talking about this missed opportunity much like we talk about the one under Houllier 5/6years ago.
[/quote]
LAST season was our best chance in the past 20 years, mate... If a chance has been missed here, it was last season, not this summer.
[/quote]
Everyone agrees that we messed up last summer (thats a given), but it's equally clear that we've missed a huge opportunity again this summer too (for different reasons).
If Rafa had been allowed to sign just one more quality player, we'd be in a much stronger position, yet instead our lying bastard owners have decided it's in "our" better interests to make a profit.
[/quote]Its not last summer we fucked it. It was on the pitch. It was taking off a striker for Lucas at 0-0, it was leaving Keane out when he was confident after a brace, it was playing Kuyt when he was off form badly...etc...etc Rafa cost us the title last year, not just in summer but in Autumn too.
[/quote]
I don't buy that at all Oncy, I think Rafa did an excellent job last season.
Personally i think if anything cost us, it was the lack of experience of being in a title race more than anything else.
[/quote]
So, he was right to take off a striker for Lucas in a game where we desperately needed a goal, was he?
He should have taken Stevie G off when we had 8 minutes to find a winner against Wigan, should he?
He was correct in playing for a draw against ten man, Cesc-less Arsenal with 30 minutes left, was he?
He did the right thing, dropping Keane just as he's gotten 3 goals in 2 games and was starting to look like he had a little confidence about him, did he?
Rafa is the reason we finished 2nd place last season.
You think that he deserves emmense credit for that.
I think he deserves some credit for that. But also critisism.
Because we should have won the league.
[/quote]
People are always going to try to find someone to blame when things don't go as they'd like them to, on this occasion you've chosen to aim your frustration at Rafa.
Personally i think that Rafa got the best out of our squad last season and did an excellent job (Look at some of the personal records we set last season for proof of this).
Rather than going for the easy cheap shots at the manager that has improved us each season, i'd suggest that the following 2 points were in fact the main reasons why we failed to win the title.
G&T only played 12 (if i remember right) times together
A lack of experience of being in a title race.
[/quote]
I've chosen to blame the man who picked the team and made all the decisions, yes.
Personally, I think Rafa did a great job for 2/3 of the season, but the job he did for the other 1/3 cost us the title.
It's only a cheap shot if it's unwarrented. Therefore, I have not taken a cheap shot. I have pointed out several errors on Rafa's part that many people agree contributed to us losing the points that would have seen us crowns champions. And maybe it's easy because it's so glaringly obvious to those of us not determined to cannonise Rafa just yet, eh?
How can inexperience have cost us the title when we were the best team in the world during the run in..? It was our winter period that killed us, not end of season nerves. And I've said it 1,000 times... We beat better teams without G&T than we allowed to hold us when they did play, so that's not as huge a factor as many are making out. It's certainly not as big as a factor as some of the decisions that I've pointed out earlier.
But, there are none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE, so...
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35573.msg937002#msg937002 date=1251850360]
Roy Keane buys some incredibly overpriced shite.
4M for two Sunderland reserves. Fuck me.
[/quote]
Yeah saw that earlier. You would have thought he would have learned his lesson buying such average players. However maybe championship is their level and they will excell.
Roy Keane buys some incredibly overpriced shite.
4M for two Sunderland reserves. Fuck me.
[/quote]
Yeah saw that earlier. You would have thought he would have learned his lesson buying such average players. However maybe championship is their level and they will excell.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35573.msg936999#msg936999 date=1251850136]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936960#msg936960 date=1251843463]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35573.msg936862#msg936862 date=1251834394]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936692#msg936692 date=1251826308]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35573.msg936682#msg936682 date=1251825706]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936678#msg936678 date=1251825480]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35573.msg936657#msg936657 date=1251824268]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=35573.msg936649#msg936649 date=1251823610]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936642#msg936642 date=1251822984]
A huge opportunity missed.
At least every single Liverpool fan now should be fully aware of what type of owners we have.
[/quote]
Yep.. and Gerrard and Carra aren't getting any younger either.. and with Citeh on the up, and soon to be pushing for a CL spot, this could conceivably be our best chance of winning it (possibly missed) for the next 5-10years. Time will tell, but I can't help but feel we'll be talking about this missed opportunity much like we talk about the one under Houllier 5/6years ago.
[/quote]
LAST season was our best chance in the past 20 years, mate... If a chance has been missed here, it was last season, not this summer.
[/quote]
Everyone agrees that we messed up last summer (thats a given), but it's equally clear that we've missed a huge opportunity again this summer too (for different reasons).
If Rafa had been allowed to sign just one more quality player, we'd be in a much stronger position, yet instead our lying bastard owners have decided it's in "our" better interests to make a profit.
[/quote]Its not last summer we fucked it. It was on the pitch. It was taking off a striker for Lucas at 0-0, it was leaving Keane out when he was confident after a brace, it was playing Kuyt when he was off form badly...etc...etc Rafa cost us the title last year, not just in summer but in Autumn too.
[/quote]
I don't buy that at all Oncy, I think Rafa did an excellent job last season.
Personally i think if anything cost us, it was the lack of experience of being in a title race more than anything else.
[/quote]
So, he was right to take off a striker for Lucas in a game where we desperately needed a goal, was he?
He should have taken Stevie G off when we had 8 minutes to find a winner against Wigan, should he?
He was correct in playing for a draw against ten man, Cesc-less Arsenal with 30 minutes left, was he?
He did the right thing, dropping Keane just as he's gotten 3 goals in 2 games and was starting to look like he had a little confidence about him, did he?
Rafa is the reason we finished 2nd place last season.
You think that he deserves emmense credit for that.
I think he deserves some credit for that. But also critisism.
Because we should have won the league.
[/quote]
People are always going to try to find someone to blame when things don't go as they'd like them to, on this occasion you've chosen to aim your frustration at Rafa.
Personally i think that Rafa got the best out of our squad last season and did an excellent job (Look at some of the personal records we set last season for proof of this).
Rather than going for the easy cheap shots at the manager that has improved us each season, i'd suggest that the following 2 points were in fact the main reasons why we failed to win the title.
G&T only played 12 (if i remember right) times together
A lack of experience of being in a title race.
[/quote]
I've chosen to blame the man who picked the team and made all the decisions, yes.
Personally, I think Rafa did a great job for 2/3 of the season, but the job he did for the other 1/3 cost us the title.
It's only a cheap shot if it's unwarrented. Therefore, I have not taken a cheap shot. I have pointed out several errors on Rafa's part that many people agree contributed to us losing the points that would have seen us crowns champions. And maybe it's easy because it's so glaringly obvious to those of us not determined to cannonise Rafa just yet, eh?
How can inexperience have cost us the title when we were the best team in the world during the run in..? It was our winter period that killed us, not end of season nerves. And I've said it 1,000 times... We beat better teams without G&T than we allowed to hold us when they did play, so that's not as huge a factor as many are making out. It's certainly not as big as a factor as some of the decisions that I've pointed out earlier.
But, there are none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE, so...
[/quote]
Once again i see that we're not going to agree on this mate 🙂
I just think your expectations of a faultless season by our manager (or any manager for that matter), is where the problem lies. Never in the history of the game has a manager gone through a whole season without making a few mistakes along the way, so why demand it from Rafa?
The inexperience that i mention IMO affected us much earlier in the season.
Nobody in there right mind can say that our chances of winning more points were not decreased by the absence of G&T, it's just ludicrous to suggest otherwise.
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936960#msg936960 date=1251843463]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35573.msg936862#msg936862 date=1251834394]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936692#msg936692 date=1251826308]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35573.msg936682#msg936682 date=1251825706]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936678#msg936678 date=1251825480]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35573.msg936657#msg936657 date=1251824268]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=35573.msg936649#msg936649 date=1251823610]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35573.msg936642#msg936642 date=1251822984]
A huge opportunity missed.
At least every single Liverpool fan now should be fully aware of what type of owners we have.
[/quote]
Yep.. and Gerrard and Carra aren't getting any younger either.. and with Citeh on the up, and soon to be pushing for a CL spot, this could conceivably be our best chance of winning it (possibly missed) for the next 5-10years. Time will tell, but I can't help but feel we'll be talking about this missed opportunity much like we talk about the one under Houllier 5/6years ago.
[/quote]
LAST season was our best chance in the past 20 years, mate... If a chance has been missed here, it was last season, not this summer.
[/quote]
Everyone agrees that we messed up last summer (thats a given), but it's equally clear that we've missed a huge opportunity again this summer too (for different reasons).
If Rafa had been allowed to sign just one more quality player, we'd be in a much stronger position, yet instead our lying bastard owners have decided it's in "our" better interests to make a profit.
[/quote]Its not last summer we fucked it. It was on the pitch. It was taking off a striker for Lucas at 0-0, it was leaving Keane out when he was confident after a brace, it was playing Kuyt when he was off form badly...etc...etc Rafa cost us the title last year, not just in summer but in Autumn too.
[/quote]
I don't buy that at all Oncy, I think Rafa did an excellent job last season.
Personally i think if anything cost us, it was the lack of experience of being in a title race more than anything else.
[/quote]
So, he was right to take off a striker for Lucas in a game where we desperately needed a goal, was he?
He should have taken Stevie G off when we had 8 minutes to find a winner against Wigan, should he?
He was correct in playing for a draw against ten man, Cesc-less Arsenal with 30 minutes left, was he?
He did the right thing, dropping Keane just as he's gotten 3 goals in 2 games and was starting to look like he had a little confidence about him, did he?
Rafa is the reason we finished 2nd place last season.
You think that he deserves emmense credit for that.
I think he deserves some credit for that. But also critisism.
Because we should have won the league.
[/quote]
People are always going to try to find someone to blame when things don't go as they'd like them to, on this occasion you've chosen to aim your frustration at Rafa.
Personally i think that Rafa got the best out of our squad last season and did an excellent job (Look at some of the personal records we set last season for proof of this).
Rather than going for the easy cheap shots at the manager that has improved us each season, i'd suggest that the following 2 points were in fact the main reasons why we failed to win the title.
G&T only played 12 (if i remember right) times together
A lack of experience of being in a title race.
[/quote]
I've chosen to blame the man who picked the team and made all the decisions, yes.
Personally, I think Rafa did a great job for 2/3 of the season, but the job he did for the other 1/3 cost us the title.
It's only a cheap shot if it's unwarrented. Therefore, I have not taken a cheap shot. I have pointed out several errors on Rafa's part that many people agree contributed to us losing the points that would have seen us crowns champions. And maybe it's easy because it's so glaringly obvious to those of us not determined to cannonise Rafa just yet, eh?
How can inexperience have cost us the title when we were the best team in the world during the run in..? It was our winter period that killed us, not end of season nerves. And I've said it 1,000 times... We beat better teams without G&T than we allowed to hold us when they did play, so that's not as huge a factor as many are making out. It's certainly not as big as a factor as some of the decisions that I've pointed out earlier.
But, there are none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE, so...
[/quote]
Once again i see that we're not going to agree on this mate 🙂
I just think your expectations of a faultless season by our manager (or any manager for that matter), is where the problem lies. Never in the history of the game has a manager gone through a whole season without making a few mistakes along the way, so why demand it from Rafa?
The inexperience that i mention IMO affected us much earlier in the season.
Nobody in there right mind can say that our chances of winning more points were not decreased by the absence of G&T, it's just ludicrous to suggest otherwise.
I didn't say that G & T missing did not decrease our chances. Ever.
I said that it wasn't as big a factor as some are making it.
Had Rafa done things better in some of the examples I gave, it wouldn't have mattered that we didn't have them for such a stretch.
And R4PM, I'm not looking for perfection. Just not mind-bogglingness either.
I said that it wasn't as big a factor as some are making it.
Had Rafa done things better in some of the examples I gave, it wouldn't have mattered that we didn't have them for such a stretch.
And R4PM, I'm not looking for perfection. Just not mind-bogglingness either.
[quote author=Foxwold link=topic=35573.msg937018#msg937018 date=1251853714]
Pity Rafa doesn't have the luxury of hindsight like some posters do.
Anyone that thinks the team (Rafa included) didn't do a good job last season needs their head examined.
[/quote]
Again, correct.
Pity Rafa doesn't have the luxury of hindsight like some posters do.
Anyone that thinks the team (Rafa included) didn't do a good job last season needs their head examined.
[/quote]
Again, correct.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=35573.msg937021#msg937021 date=1251853894]
Ranagers have got themselves a great one year loan deal in Jerome Rothen by the way.
[/quote]
He was very good when he was at Monaco then moved on to PSG and fizzled out a bit. Is he still that good or is the SPL that shit?
Ranagers have got themselves a great one year loan deal in Jerome Rothen by the way.
[/quote]
He was very good when he was at Monaco then moved on to PSG and fizzled out a bit. Is he still that good or is the SPL that shit?
Maybe the financial crisis has finally caught up with football. City aside who has spent big? Don’t say Madrid, they play in a different country.
We have still effectively added 2 x 20mil pound players to our squad, albeit we have lost Xabi.
Haven’t we always said that it’s the quality we lack not the numbers? So, why are there 20-odd pages here of people wanting to sign any Tom, Dick and fucking Harry for 2 piddling million? These are the fuckers we spend years trying to get rid of when they end up crap, like was always going to be the case anyway. Kranjcar aside most of the deals done yesterday are codswallop.
Is our summer worse than Utds? They have sold the best player in the World for 80mil, bought Wigan’s right winger and Owen on a free (whom most on here didn’t want anyway).
Is our summer any worse than Chelsea’s? Is our summer any worse than Arsenal’s? They’ve just sold their main striker and a mainstay of their defence without whining about it.
This season will be a good test for Benitez, we’ll see what he’s made of in my opinion as the field looks quite level.
I’m not defending the owners for a second, they’re bellends. But I’m sick of all this hard done by bollocks, we need to start getting the best out of all the 20mil pound players we have already.
Maybe if the some of the players who’ve just been handed whopping new deals over the summer started earning it, instead of moping round like a 14 year old girl that’s just found out Duncan from Blue is a bender, then we’d be better off.
We have still effectively added 2 x 20mil pound players to our squad, albeit we have lost Xabi.
Haven’t we always said that it’s the quality we lack not the numbers? So, why are there 20-odd pages here of people wanting to sign any Tom, Dick and fucking Harry for 2 piddling million? These are the fuckers we spend years trying to get rid of when they end up crap, like was always going to be the case anyway. Kranjcar aside most of the deals done yesterday are codswallop.
Is our summer worse than Utds? They have sold the best player in the World for 80mil, bought Wigan’s right winger and Owen on a free (whom most on here didn’t want anyway).
Is our summer any worse than Chelsea’s? Is our summer any worse than Arsenal’s? They’ve just sold their main striker and a mainstay of their defence without whining about it.
This season will be a good test for Benitez, we’ll see what he’s made of in my opinion as the field looks quite level.
I’m not defending the owners for a second, they’re bellends. But I’m sick of all this hard done by bollocks, we need to start getting the best out of all the 20mil pound players we have already.
Maybe if the some of the players who’ve just been handed whopping new deals over the summer started earning it, instead of moping round like a 14 year old girl that’s just found out Duncan from Blue is a bender, then we’d be better off.
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=35573.msg937026#msg937026 date=1251854991]
Maybe the financial crisis has finally caught up with football. City aside who has spent big? Don’t say Madrid, they play in a different country.
[/quote]
Sunderland? They've spent 40M odd, which for a club like them is pretty significant.
Maybe the financial crisis has finally caught up with football. City aside who has spent big? Don’t say Madrid, they play in a different country.
[/quote]
Sunderland? They've spent 40M odd, which for a club like them is pretty significant.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35573.msg936982#msg936982 date=1251847624]
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=35573.msg936979#msg936979 date=1251847082]
Fantastic ambition shown by the owners. Did they not promise the gaffer biggish £ to spend over the summer???
I personally feel theyre destroying our club! we need owners that will back the manager!
Im not a fan that complains cos i love my team but i find it very frustrating
[/quote]Its only rumoured he was to be given big money. The agreement could have been sales only.
It would of course be better to have rich owners who didnt create debt to buy us, but ultimately we would owe them (the owners) in the same way we now owe the banks.
Chelsea owe Abramovich 750m which he will one day want to get back. The only difference is he is their bank and ours is rbs. Ultimately the interest payments are a huge hinderence, but in 3 years we will be owned and debt free (and hopefully ready to build our 70m stadium) while Chelsea will be still hugely in debt as will United.
I wish we had more money for players, i wish we had more for a stadium, but ultimately im happy with where the club is at.
[/quote]
that is laughable, until G&H clear off we will have a transfer freeze and be signing freebies, that is the reality. The debt isnt shrinking that much
there will not be a new stadium under these yanks
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=35573.msg936979#msg936979 date=1251847082]
Fantastic ambition shown by the owners. Did they not promise the gaffer biggish £ to spend over the summer???
I personally feel theyre destroying our club! we need owners that will back the manager!
Im not a fan that complains cos i love my team but i find it very frustrating
[/quote]Its only rumoured he was to be given big money. The agreement could have been sales only.
It would of course be better to have rich owners who didnt create debt to buy us, but ultimately we would owe them (the owners) in the same way we now owe the banks.
Chelsea owe Abramovich 750m which he will one day want to get back. The only difference is he is their bank and ours is rbs. Ultimately the interest payments are a huge hinderence, but in 3 years we will be owned and debt free (and hopefully ready to build our 70m stadium) while Chelsea will be still hugely in debt as will United.
I wish we had more money for players, i wish we had more for a stadium, but ultimately im happy with where the club is at.
[/quote]
that is laughable, until G&H clear off we will have a transfer freeze and be signing freebies, that is the reality. The debt isnt shrinking that much
there will not be a new stadium under these yanks
- Status
