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[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=35573.msg937026#msg937026 date=1251854991]

Maybe the financial crisis has finally caught up with football. City aside who has spent big? Don’t say Madrid, they play in a different country.

We have still effectively added 2 x 20mil pound players to our squad, albeit we have lost Xabi.

Haven’t we always said that it’s the quality we lack not the numbers? So, why are there 20-odd pages here of people wanting to sign any Tom, Dick and fucking Harry for 2 piddling million? These are the fuckers we spend years trying to get rid of when they end up crap, like was always going to be the case anyway. Kranjcar aside most of the deals done yesterday are codswallop.

Is our summer worse than Utds? They have sold the best player in the World for 80mil, bought Wigan’s right winger and Owen on a free (whom most on here didn’t want anyway).

Is our summer any worse than Chelsea’s? Is our summer any worse than Arsenal’s? They’ve just sold their main striker and a mainstay of their defence without whining about it.

This season will be a good test for Benitez, we’ll see what he’s made of in my opinion as the field looks quite level.

I’m not defending the owners for a second, they’re bellends. But I’m sick of all this hard done by bollocks, we need to start getting the best out of all the 20mil pound players we have already.

Maybe if the some of the players who’ve just been handed whopping new deals over the summer started earning it, instead of moping round like a 14 year old girl that’s just found out Duncan from Blue is a bender, then we’d be better off.

[/quote]

we are short a striker and in other areas. it's not just this summer either, it's next summer there will be a freeze and the summer after, players will leave and not be replaced or be replaced with freebies. the club will go backwards in time (if it hasn't already), it's inevitable.

you have no idea who badly we're being run, not just now but what will happen in the future
 
[quote author=Foxwold link=topic=35573.msg937018#msg937018 date=1251853714]
Pity Rafa doesn't have the luxury of hindsight like some posters do.

Ahhhhh, THAT old chestnet... Actually, the real pity here is that some of us can acknowledge that everything Liverpool Football Club and it's staff has ever done throughout all of time is perfect.

Anyone that thinks the team (Rafa included) didn't do a good job last season needs their head examined.
[/quote]

Agreed. As does anybody who thinks that, for as well as they undoubtedly did, they couldn't have done just 4 points better.
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=35573.msg937032#msg937032 date=1251858987]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=35573.msg937026#msg937026 date=1251854991]

Maybe the financial crisis has finally caught up with football. City aside who has spent big? Don’t say Madrid, they play in a different country.

We have still effectively added 2 x 20mil pound players to our squad, albeit we have lost Xabi.

Haven’t we always said that it’s the quality we lack not the numbers? So, why are there 20-odd pages here of people wanting to sign any Tom, Dick and fucking Harry for 2 piddling million? These are the fuckers we spend years trying to get rid of when they end up crap, like was always going to be the case anyway. Kranjcar aside most of the deals done yesterday are codswallop.

Is our summer worse than Utds? They have sold the best player in the World for 80mil, bought Wigan’s right winger and Owen on a free (whom most on here didn’t want anyway).

Is our summer any worse than Chelsea’s? Is our summer any worse than Arsenal’s? They’ve just sold their main striker and a mainstay of their defence without whining about it.

This season will be a good test for Benitez, we’ll see what he’s made of in my opinion as the field looks quite level.

I’m not defending the owners for a second, they’re bellends. But I’m sick of all this hard done by bollocks, we need to start getting the best out of all the 20mil pound players we have already.

Maybe if the some of the players who’ve just been handed whopping new deals over the summer started earning it, instead of moping round like a 14 year old girl that’s just found out Duncan from Blue is a bender, then we’d be better off.

[/quote]

we are short a striker and in other areas. it's not just this summer either, it's next summer there will be a freeze and the summer after, players will leave and not be replaced or be replaced with freebies. the club will go backwards in time (if it hasn't already), it's inevitable.

you have no idea who badly we're being run, not just now but what will happen in the future


[/quote]

Thankfully for Larry and us all though, we've got you here to give us the expert keyboard warrior insight on all the goings on.
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=35573.msg937032#msg937032 date=1251858987]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=35573.msg937026#msg937026 date=1251854991]

Maybe the financial crisis has finally caught up with football. City aside who has spent big? Don’t say Madrid, they play in a different country.

We have still effectively added 2 x 20mil pound players to our squad, albeit we have lost Xabi.

Haven’t we always said that it’s the quality we lack not the numbers? So, why are there 20-odd pages here of people wanting to sign any Tom, Dick and fucking Harry for 2 piddling million? These are the fuckers we spend years trying to get rid of when they end up crap, like was always going to be the case anyway. Kranjcar aside most of the deals done yesterday are codswallop.

Is our summer worse than Utds? They have sold the best player in the World for 80mil, bought Wigan’s right winger and Owen on a free (whom most on here didn’t want anyway).

Is our summer any worse than Chelsea’s? Is our summer any worse than Arsenal’s? They’ve just sold their main striker and a mainstay of their defence without whining about it.

This season will be a good test for Benitez, we’ll see what he’s made of in my opinion as the field looks quite level.

I’m not defending the owners for a second, they’re bellends. But I’m sick of all this hard done by bollocks, we need to start getting the best out of all the 20mil pound players we have already.

Maybe if the some of the players who’ve just been handed whopping new deals over the summer started earning it, instead of moping round like a 14 year old girl that’s just found out Duncan from Blue is a bender, then we’d be better off.

[/quote]

we are short a striker and in other areas. it's not just this summer either, it's next summer there will be a freeze and the summer after, players will leave and not be replaced or be replaced with freebies. the club will go backwards in time (if it hasn't already), it's inevitable.

you have no idea who badly we're being run, not just now but what will happen in the future

[/quote]

Unless, of course, you're wrong. And let's be honest... that MIGHT happen.
 
I don't hate Rafa, I think he's a very good manager.

What I don't like is the fact that he constantly complains about money for kwality players when his transfer record is arguably patchy, how he can claim that he was forced to buy players he didnt want, and how he constantly rails against others when he should also be looking at his tactics and selections.

Wht really irks me though is how some people are utterly unable to see these flaws.

Having said that, I only rate 2 managers currently in the League as being his better; and they're the only two who've won the League incidentally.

I hope he gets it right, more than that I hope I'm not constantly saying it season after season after season.
 
[quote author=Foxwold link=topic=35573.msg937018#msg937018 date=1251853714]
Pity Rafa doesn't have the luxury of hindsight like some posters do.

Anyone that thinks the team (Rafa included) didn't do a good job last season needs their head examined.
[/quote]

The posters going on about this now are the same ones that throughout last season were voicing their concerns about dropped points, lack of ambition in certain games and the mentality of accepting a draw. This was whilst half of the forum and many others rabbited on about how "we're still top of the league you whinging cunts!". So yes, with the benefit of hindsight certain posters were proven correct. Whaddapie is one of them.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=35573.msg937067#msg937067 date=1251872228]
[quote author=Foxwold link=topic=35573.msg937018#msg937018 date=1251853714]
Pity Rafa doesn't have the luxury of hindsight like some posters do.

Anyone that thinks the team (Rafa included) didn't do a good job last season needs their head examined.
[/quote]

The posters going on about this now are the same ones that throughout last season were voicing their concerns about dropped points, lack of ambition in certain games and the mentality of accepting a draw. This was whilst half of the forum and many others rabbited on about how "we're still top of the league you whinging cunts!". So yes, with the benefit of hindsight certain posters were proven correct. Whaddapie is one of them.
[/quote]

And the "we're still top of the league" defence soon changed to the "we're still unbeaten" when we started slipping behind after all the draws.
 
and it finished with we finished 2nd and didn't have to play champions league qualifiers.

what's the longest in the last 20 years a liverpool manager has gone without winning a trophy?
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=35573.msg937071#msg937071 date=1251872850]
And the "we're still top of the league" defence soon changed to the "we're still unbeaten" when we started slipping behind after all the draws.
[/quote]

And this season it's like "well, Utd lost five games last season... so we can afford to lose a few as long as we turn some of those draws into wins".

Heh, errr... guys... actually, nevermind.
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=35573.msg937031#msg937031 date=1251858601]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35573.msg936982#msg936982 date=1251847624]
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=35573.msg936979#msg936979 date=1251847082]
Fantastic ambition shown by the owners. Did they not promise the gaffer biggish £ to spend over the summer???
I personally feel theyre destroying our club! we need owners that will back the manager!
Im not a fan that complains cos i love my team but i find it very frustrating
[/quote]Its only rumoured he was to be given big money. The agreement could have been sales only.
It would of course be better to have rich owners who didnt create debt to buy us, but ultimately we would owe them (the owners) in the same way we now owe the banks.
Chelsea owe Abramovich 750m which he will one day want to get back. The only difference is he is their bank and ours is rbs. Ultimately the interest payments are a huge hinderence, but in 3 years we will be owned and debt free (and hopefully ready to build our 70m stadium) while Chelsea will be still hugely in debt as will United.
I wish we had more money for players, i wish we had more for a stadium, but ultimately im happy with where the club is at.
[/quote]

that is laughable, until G&H clear off we will have a transfer freeze and be signing freebies, that is the reality. The debt isnt shrinking that much

there will not be a new stadium under these yanks




[/quote]You said that last year and we signed Johnson and Aquilani. Meaning youre full of shit.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=35573.msg937072#msg937072 date=1251873059]
and it finished with we finished 2nd and didn't have to play champions league qualifiers.

what's the longest in the last 20 years a liverpool manager has gone without winning a trophy?
[/quote]

We won cups in 92, 95 and then 2001 & 2003. Then 2005 and 2006. You work it out. It's three years since we won a cup, during which we've finished 2nd and we've got to another Champions League Final, all after never appearing in the competition proper on a consistent basis until Rafa arrived.

So over 5 seasons we've finished 2nd twice, won the CL, won the FA Cup, won the Super Cup and Community Shield (for what they're worth) and finished runner up in a League Cup Final and another CL Final. 4 finals in 5 seasons is hardly anything to moan about.

Please carry on spouting shite, I could pick you off all day.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35573.msg937077#msg937077 date=1251873619]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=35573.msg937031#msg937031 date=1251858601]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35573.msg936982#msg936982 date=1251847624]
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=35573.msg936979#msg936979 date=1251847082]
Fantastic ambition shown by the owners. Did they not promise the gaffer biggish £ to spend over the summer???
I personally feel theyre destroying our club! we need owners that will back the manager!
Im not a fan that complains cos i love my team but i find it very frustrating
[/quote]Its only rumoured he was to be given big money. The agreement could have been sales only.
It would of course be better to have rich owners who didnt create debt to buy us, but ultimately we would owe them (the owners) in the same way we now owe the banks.
Chelsea owe Abramovich 750m which he will one day want to get back. The only difference is he is their bank and ours is rbs. Ultimately the interest payments are a huge hinderence, but in 3 years we will be owned and debt free (and hopefully ready to build our 70m stadium) while Chelsea will be still hugely in debt as will United.
I wish we had more money for players, i wish we had more for a stadium, but ultimately im happy with where the club is at.
[/quote]

that is laughable, until G&H clear off we will have a transfer freeze and be signing freebies, that is the reality. The debt isnt shrinking that much

there will not be a new stadium under these yanks




[/quote]You said that last year and we signed Johnson and Aquilani. Meaning youre full of shit.
[/quote]

from money generated from sales.

to be fair to the yanks we aren't being run into the ground (yet) but the broken promises are really annoying. just imagine what a 200m pound loan could have bought if it weren't used to buy...OURSELVES.
 
Rafa's had alot of deserved criticism from me in the past, but let's be fair here, because he's getting alot of unwarranted stick for last season.

In recent years my main criticism's have been his reluctance to field a settled lineup and his inability to beat the big teams.

He sorted out both of those issues with aplomb last season.

Some of the cup games we've played in recent years have been the best I've seen us be involved in. 5-0 against Real Madrid? 4-4 at Stamford Bridge? If United did that it'd be the intro to the Champions League on TV for fucking years.

His main issue is in the transfer market, especially after getting it so wrong last Summer, but let's be fair here, he's also brought in Alonso, Skrtel, Agger, Mascher, Kuyt, Torres and now Johnson. Yeah he's brought in ALOT of low to midpriced shite, but he's not the only one.

Look at United. While possessing a healthy transfer record they've also spent £18m each on Nani and Anderson. Berbatov has hardly blown people away either. That's over £70m right there on three players with huge question marks over them.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35573.msg937083#msg937083 date=1251875264]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35573.msg937072#msg937072 date=1251873059]
and it finished with we finished 2nd and didn't have to play champions league qualifiers.

what's the longest in the last 20 years a liverpool manager has gone without winning a trophy?
[/quote]

We won cups in 92, 95 and then 2001 & 2003. Then 2005 and 2006. You work it out. It's three years since we won a cup, during which we've finished 2nd and we've got to another Champions League Final, all after never appearing in the competition proper on a consistent basis until Rafa arrived.

So over 5 seasons we've finished 2nd twice, won the CL, won the FA Cup, won the Super Cup and Community Shield (for what they're worth) and finished runner up in a League Cup Final and another CL Final. 4 finals in 5 seasons is hardly anything to moan about.

Please carry on spouting shite, I could pick you off all day.
[/quote]
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35573.msg937086#msg937086 date=1251876819]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35573.msg937077#msg937077 date=1251873619]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=35573.msg937031#msg937031 date=1251858601]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35573.msg936982#msg936982 date=1251847624]
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=35573.msg936979#msg936979 date=1251847082]
Fantastic ambition shown by the owners. Did they not promise the gaffer biggish £ to spend over the summer???
I personally feel theyre destroying our club! we need owners that will back the manager!
Im not a fan that complains cos i love my team but i find it very frustrating
[/quote]Its only rumoured he was to be given big money. The agreement could have been sales only.
It would of course be better to have rich owners who didnt create debt to buy us, but ultimately we would owe them (the owners) in the same way we now owe the banks.
Chelsea owe Abramovich 750m which he will one day want to get back. The only difference is he is their bank and ours is rbs. Ultimately the interest payments are a huge hinderence, but in 3 years we will be owned and debt free (and hopefully ready to build our 70m stadium) while Chelsea will be still hugely in debt as will United.
I wish we had more money for players, i wish we had more for a stadium, but ultimately im happy with where the club is at.
[/quote]

that is laughable, until G&H clear off we will have a transfer freeze and be signing freebies, that is the reality. The debt isnt shrinking that much

there will not be a new stadium under these yanks




[/quote]You said that last year and we signed Johnson and Aquilani. Meaning youre full of shit.
[/quote]

from money generated from sales.

to be fair to the yanks we aren't being run into the ground (yet) but the broken promises are really annoying. just imagine what a 200m pound loan could have bought if it weren't used to buy...OURSELVES.
[/quote]Firstly he said 'Transfer freeze' secondly Johnson was bought prior to any sale. But anyway.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=35573.msg937098#msg937098 date=1251878369]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35573.msg937083#msg937083 date=1251875264]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35573.msg937072#msg937072 date=1251873059]
and it finished with we finished 2nd and didn't have to play champions league qualifiers.

what's the longest in the last 20 years a liverpool manager has gone without winning a trophy?
[/quote]

We won cups in 92, 95 and then 2001 & 2003. Then 2005 and 2006. You work it out. It's three years since we won a cup, during which we've finished 2nd and we've got to another Champions League Final, all after never appearing in the competition proper on a consistent basis until Rafa arrived.

So over 5 seasons we've finished 2nd twice, won the CL, won the FA Cup, won the Super Cup and Community Shield (for what they're worth) and finished runner up in a League Cup Final and another CL Final. 4 finals in 5 seasons is hardly anything to moan about.

Please carry on spouting shite, I could pick you off all day.
[/quote]
[/quote]

*Rage in missing out 90% of the point to fit his own shite agenda SHOCKA!!*

We've won cups, we've been to finals and we've come as close as we've come since our last league win.

Yes Rage, he's been an undeniable failure.
 
this is liverpool. if you don't win trophies you've failed!

rafa has failed for the last 3 years if not 4. i'd like to think we judge success higher than the fa cup, charity shield, super cup and fucking up in a european cup final.

i remember the reasoning behind why rafa was brought in - league title! so yes to date he has failed and i am 100% sure thta if he fails this year he'll start complaining about lack of money/ability to compete in the transfer market crap again
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=35573.msg937142#msg937142 date=1251881391]
this is liverpool. if you don't win trophies you've failed!

rafa has failed for the last 3 years if not 4. i'd like to think we judge success higher than the fa cup, charity shield, super cup and fucking up in a european cup final.

i remember the reasoning behind why rafa was brought in - league title! so yes to date he has failed and i am 100% sure thta if he fails this year he'll start complaining about lack of money/ability to compete in the transfer market crap again
[/quote]

Moronic and negative.... a combo to savour....
 
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=35573.msg937219#msg937219 date=1251887530]
[quote author=rage link=topic=35573.msg937142#msg937142 date=1251881391]
this is liverpool. if you don't win trophies you've failed!

rafa has failed for the last 3 years if not 4. i'd like to think we judge success higher than the fa cup, charity shield, super cup and fucking up in a european cup final.

i remember the reasoning behind why rafa was brought in - league title! so yes to date he has failed and i am 100% sure thta if he fails this year he'll start complaining about lack of money/ability to compete in the transfer market crap again
[/quote]

Moronic and negative.... a combo to savour....
[/quote]

file it away, its in his nature. never down to him
 
All that matters to me is this;

Last year we played the best football around for most parts of the second half of the Season.

The squad is intact or improved compared to back then.

Yes we're lost Alonso but untill proven otherwise I think we've made a very important upgrade in terms of attacking play in buying Aquilani. We drawed a few to many homegames last Season and Alonso played in most but he simply wasn't capable - alongside Masher - to make our attack in numbers count from midfield.
I'm not asking our midfielders to be our mathcwinners on a regular basis but against stubborn opposition at Anfield it would've been nice with a few more attacking attributes and a few goals now and then. I firmly believe Aquilani will give us exactly this. Whether he'd then be good enough to make us tick away from home as well is an unknwon but I'm positive he'll be seen as a shrewd move by the gaffer at the end of the Season.

Arbeloa left and in him we lost a good servant but he's not anywhere near Johnson's class. It's still early days so I'll retain myself for telling you all 'I told you so' but I'm sure we've made the buy of the Season in bringing in this young English lad. He oozes class and he's already maked us look far more potent in the right side of our attack.

Sami's been replaced by a big bad-looking Greek, but with the Finn's age in mind I'm not sure he would've played that much either.

Keane was around at the start of last Season but as we all know he didn't exactly score that many goals and after all he wasn't around when we really hit off.

Bottomline is we've improved our squad and first XI. So why all this moaning? I simply don't get it.

Of course I would've loved a Villa or a Etoo but it's not the end of the world without them. Actually I can't say anyone I'd rather have upthere than Torres so if he's mostly fit alongside Gerrard (they played only 11 games together last Season mind) then we're going to win the Premiership.

Most teams will be keeping their fingers firmly crossed when it comes to a few key players mind.

United will not fare well if they loose Rooney. Chelsea will be severely weakened without Drogba and to some extent Essien. Arsenal are hanging their hopes mostly on Arshavin's brilliance. Etc. Etc.
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=35573.msg937331#msg937331 date=1251894913]
All that matters to me is this;

Last year we played the best football around for most parts of the second half of the Season.

The squad is intact or improved compared to back then.

Yes we're lost Alonso but untill proven otherwise I think we've made a very important upgrade in terms of attacking play in buying Aquilani. We drawed a few to many homegames last Season and Alonso played in most but he simply wasn't capable - alongside Masher - to make our attack in numbers count from midfield.
I'm not asking our midfielders to be our mathcwinners on a regular basis but against stubborn opposition at Anfield it would've been nice with a few more attacking attributes and a few goals now and then. I firmly believe Aquilani will give us exactly this. Whether he'd then be good enough to make us tick away from home as well is an unknwon but I'm positive he'll be seen as a shrewd move by the gaffer at the end of the Season.

Arbeloa left and in him we lost a good servant but he's not anywhere near Johnson's class. It's still early days so I'll retain myself for telling you all 'I told you so' but I'm sure we've made the buy of the Season in bringing in this young English lad. He oozes class and he's already maked us look far more potent in the right side of our attack.

Sami's been replaced by a big bad-looking Greek, but with the Finn's age in mind I'm not sure he would've played that much either.

Keane was around at the start of last Season but as we all know he didn't exactly score that many goals and after all he wasn't around when we really hit off.

Bottomline is we've improved our squad and first XI. So why all this moaning? I simply don't get it.

Of course I would've loved a Villa or a Etoo but it's not the end of the world without them. Actually I can't say anyone I'd rather have upthere than Torres so if he's mostly fit alongside Gerrard (they played only 11 games together last Season mind) then we're going to win the Premiership.

Most teams will be keeping their fingers firmly crossed when it comes to a few key players mind.

United will not fare well if they loose Rooney. Chelsea will be severely weakened without Drogba and to some extent Essien. Arsenal are hanging their hopes mostly on Arshavin's brilliance. Etc. Etc.
[/quote]

Hopefully you´re right but if Aquilani flops we do not have a better squad but a big central midfield problem.

Johnson is better than Arbeloa but Hyypiä would have a been better short term solution than the greek (as he knows the zonal marking etc) so that leaves us with the assumption that Aquilani will be better than Alonso.

We did play the best football around for quite a while but I can´t see us hit those heights with Lucas and Mascherano at cm. I sounds like a broken record but it is really annoying me.
 
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