Lallana

[dmishra]

2 goals in 20 appearances. He's just not doing it for me.

His end product for a 25 million attacking midfielder is appalling. Last season he had the excuse of injuries, and bedding into a new side. This year he's had a full preseason, and has been playing regularly.

Yet he's hardly ever scoring or opening up defences. At the very least, he should really be taking charge of games against the lesser teams - but it just isn't happening.

As things stand, he's unlikely to reach even the levels of Yossi or Garcia, which is really quite sad.

 

[JohnnyRocket]

The poor man's Yossi Benayoun, even though Yossi was one fifth of the price of Lallana.

I miss the days when we were semi decent at signing players

 

[Hansern]

He was very poor last night, so was everyone else mind.
You expect more from him. Time is ticking with his future Liverpool career on the line.

Not enough created chances or goals.

 

[Modo]

 

[Mystic]

Funnily enough I thought we missed him massively on Sunday, when Coutinho isn't in the team, he's the only one who can attempt to play his role.

That's not to say we couldn't get someone better.

 

[Judge Jules]

2 goals in 20 appearances. He's just not doing it for me.

His end product for a 25 million attacking midfielder is appalling. Last season he had the excuse of injuries, and bedding into a new side. This year he's had a full preseason, and has been playing regularly.

Yet he's hardly ever scoring or opening up defences. At the very least, he should really be taking charge of games against the lesser teams - but it just isn't happening.

As things stand, he's unlikely to reach even the levels of Yossi or Garcia, which is really quite sad.

It's rare that I disagree with a post from you as strongly as I do with this one, for a variety of reasons:

1. IMO goals are not the only, arguably not even the main, measure of quality in any player except a striker.
2. Lallana is opening up defences - it's no accident that he's high up on Morse's MOTM list, despite his scoring record, and not for the first time either.
3. Your post makes Yossi and Garcia sound like failures, and they just weren't.
4. Thanks for setting Modo off again. Not.

 

[Frogfish]

Yawn ... another agenda led thread. At least bother your arse Mish, to post some real stats.

 

[Fabio]

His goals/assists do need to improve, but for me he's one of the first names on the team sheet. He does a ridiculous amount of grunt work/water carrying on the final third and makes intelligent runs that open up space for the like of Coutinho/firmino (for all the good it's doing him).

 

[Grjt2]

His goals/assists do need to improve, but for me he's one of the first names on the team sheet. He does a ridiculous amount of grunt work/water carrying on the final third and makes intelligent runs that open up space for the like of Coutinho/firmino (for all the good it's doing him).

Exactly - still needs to watch how many touches he likes to have before making a decision on what he wants to do next, but even that seems to have got a bit better.

Has he proven to be a good signing yet? No way. He has, though, massively improved from where he was and is showing some signs that he can be the one to balanace our attacking midfield and provide our frontline with the ammunition they need

 

[dmishra]

Yawn ... another agenda led thread. At least bother your arse Mish, to post some real stats.

Why are those stats not 'real'?!

And what agenda do I have?

 

[Rosco]

His goals/assists do need to improve, but for me he's one of the first names on the team sheet. He does a ridiculous amount of grunt work/water carrying on the final third and makes intelligent runs that open up space for the like of Coutinho/firmino (for all the good it's doing him).

Yeah, hes a decent complimentary piece who has been of some use, but he also needs to realise thats all he is and limit his touches .

But you can pick those complimentary players up cheaply , which is why it was such a bad idea to buy him

 

[Rosco]

Yawn ... another agenda led thread. At least bother your arse Mish, to post some real stats.

We could post your quotes from the summer if you like.

 

[dmishra]

It's rare that I disagree with a post from you as strongly as I do with this one, for a variety of reasons:

1. IMO goals are not the only, arguably not even the main, measure of quality in any player except a striker.
2. Lallana is opening up defences - it's no accident that he's high up on Morse's MOTM list, despite his scoring record, and not for the first time either.
3. Your post makes Yossi and Garcia sound like failures, and they just weren't.
4. Thanks for setting Modo off again. Not.

1. Attacking midfielders in the EPL have always been expected to score goals. I could understand the argument for a classical trequartista like Iniesta or Riquelme not needing to score goals because they influence the game so strongly otherwise, but Lallana isn't that sort of player at all. He doesn't provide controlling playmaking at all. He's a floaty AM, and that sort of player really needs to provide goals to be of any value. Silva, Eriksen, Ramsey, De Bruyne, Mata, and Coutinho all provide a much better goal threat than him. Even mid-table AMs like Mahrez, Payet, Ayew, Wijnaldum, Tadic have outperformed him this season.

2. That's really your subjective opinion. Lallana can and does look good from time to time, but he is highly inconsistent in this. The biggest issue for me is that he just doesn't step up when the likes of Coutinho and Sturridge are out. Morse's MOTM table is hardly clinching evidence for the value of a player (there are many flaws in that sytem). In any event, Lallana is only sitting 5th on that table - and that's when it hasn't been updated since the Bournemouth game. He's probably sitting in 7th or 8th place at the moment since Coutinho, Lucas and Clyne have had some excellent games since then. That's really not a great position.

3. That's just the way you've read the post. Both Garcia and Yossi were productive players (Garcia scored 30 in 3 seasons, Yossi scored 29 in 3 seasons), but I think we'd all agree that they had their limitations, consistency and quality wise. The only reason I mentioned them was that they probably best represent the Liverpool benchmark for AMs in recent times. Ideally, you'd want that bettered (as Coutinho is doing), but Lallana isn't even matching it at present.

4. That's really none of my concern. Ignore him if it helps.

 

[Best Believe It]

2. That's really your subjective opinion. Lallana can and does look good from time to time, but he is highly inconsistent in this. The biggest issue for me is that he just doesn't step up when the likes of Coutinho and Sturridge are out. Morse's MOTM table is hardly clinching evidence for the value of a player (there are many flaws in that sytem). In any event, Lallana is only sitting 5th on that table - and that's when it hasn't been updated since the Bournemouth game. He's probably sitting in 7th or 8th place at the moment since Coutinho, Lucas and Clyne have had some excellent games since then. That's really not a great position.

I think this (not to dismiss the other points) is valid. Lallana has been better this season and better under Klopp but his best games by some distance have come in combination with Coutinho. Now, that's not necessarily revelatory, as good players play best when surrounded by better players but I think Lallana struggles to be the main man in the team if Coutinho isn't there.

Talking about his price tag isn't really that fair on him; we've got a track record of overpaying after all; but I do feel we need more players who are able to take responsibility if we're in a whole, and I think that's a mentality thing as much as anything else.

 

[manwithnoname]

2 goals in 20 appearances. He's just not doing it for me.

His end product for a 25 million attacking midfielder is appalling. Last season he had the excuse of injuries, and bedding into a new side. This year he's had a full preseason, and has been playing regularly.

Yet he's hardly ever scoring or opening up defences. At the very least, he should really be taking charge of games against the lesser teams - but it just isn't happening.

As things stand, he's unlikely to reach even the levels of Yossi or Garcia, which is really quite sad.

Well, in all fairness, nobody else on Earth apart from Rodgers thought he was worth £25m. So that isn't his fault. He's a decent Premiership player, nothing more. There are times he can look very good indeed, but the fact is that he has no pace, scores hardly any goals, and doesn't create enough goals either.

He's an OK player to have in your squad, that's about it.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

A player in Lallana's position needs to be scoring goals, end of story. He should be gettng about 1 goal in 4 games, he's currently at 1 in 7. He needs to up that if he wants to stay in the team, it's as simple as that.

 

[Fabio]

A player in Lallana's position needs to be scoring goals, end of story. He should be gettng about 1 goal in 4 games, he's currently at 1 in 7. He needs to up that if he wants to stay in the team, it's as simple as that.

I would agree, although the problem is who do we replace him with?

I'm assuming Coutinho and firmino are guaranteed starters, leaving 1 more player in the AM position (assuming we play with a 5 man midfield)

Ibe seems to have a similar issue with end product at the minute, however is more wasteful than Lallana with possession.

Teixera deserves a go in the team, just to see how he does.

Milner seems lost at sea in the more advanced position, weirdly

But we haven't got any other players who can interchange at will with firmino and Coutinho, who has the desired work ethic for the job.

 

[manwithnoname]

I would agree, although the problem is who do we replace him with?

I'm assuming Coutinho and firmino are guaranteed starters, leaving 1 more player in the AM position (assuming we play with a 5 man midfield)

Ibe seems to have a similar issue with end product at the minute, however is more wasteful than Lallana with possession.

Teixera deserves a go in the team, just to see how he does.

Milner seems lost at sea in the more advanced position, weirdly

But we haven't got any other players who can interchange at will with firmino and Coutinho, who has the desired work ethic for the job.

Firmino isn't a guaranteed anything. If he doesn't sort himself out he'll be sold. I'm certain Klopp will buy an attacking player who can play wide or centrally, and has pace and goals in him. We badly lack pace when we break, and Lallana, Firmino and Coutinho don't have enough goals or pace to play together.

Abaumyang is the sort of player Klopp will want in the side, and he'll have to buy one. Or actually him. That would be nice.

 

[SummerOnions]

Gegenscoring

 

[KopRed]

Wijnaldum > Lallana

10mios cheaper. And younger.

 

[Halmeister]

I was one of his bigger critics, and I'm still not really fan, but the truth is he's been one of our better players since Klopp came in

 

[Woland]

While he's defo not scoring nearly enough where does this 'he should be getting 1 in 4 come from?' Gerrard is the best AM we've ever had and he got 1 in 4. Silva and Oscar get 1 in 5. Ozil 1 in 6. I think the only AM's in the league with career stats around 1 in 4 or better are Yaya and Hazard, and neither of them are doing it this season.

Any goals would be good, considering he seems to have forgotten how to score. If he got near his 1 in 5 he was at at Southampton he'd be in the top few in the country. If he scored twice on Saturday then he'd be there.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Yossi and Garcia were both scoring about 1 in 4 for us, he should be comparable to them.

 

[Markeh]

Klopp likes him, I like him and we would have been far better against Newcastle if he started.

Imo at least one, preferrably two or ideally 3 of Lallana, Coutinho and Sturridge need to be in the side. They're the only 3 that make runs or carry the ball and they never shy away from it.

 

[Frogfish]

We could post your quotes from the summer if you like.

If they are stat, not opinion, related then please do. And while you're at it post your 'manager' quotes too.

 

[rurikbird]

Klopp likes him, I like him and we would have been far better against Newcastle if he started.

Imo at least one, preferrably two or ideally 3 of Lallana, Coutinho and Sturridge need to be in the side. They're the only 3 that make runs or carry the ball and they never shy away from it.

Look, I know Firmino is going through a bad patch right now, but still think long-term him and Coutinho is the most promising attacking partnership we have in the team. Against Chelsea and Man City the two Brazilians showed great understanding of each other's movements – I've never seen this between Coutinho and Lallana in the 20+ games they played together. Even in the Man City game when all of our attacking 3 put in terrific performances, Lallana contributed more by his pressing and running, but he was kind on the periphery in terms of creating chances, almost all of which came courtesy of Coutinho and Firmino.

Coutinho showed similarly good understanding with Sturridge in the past and I'm sure if we can break out of our injury hoodoo and can somehow get all 3 of them on the pitch at the same time (and with Firmino playing closer to his true level than he is now), we could destroy any defense.

 

[Frogfish]

Some stats just for comparison.

 

[Rosco]

No mention of his zero league goals in those stats ?

My prediction for Lallana is looking spot on. Yours is looking shite Froggy

 

[keniget]

Lallana isn't comparable to the likes of Gerrard and Yaya.

 

[Ryan]

We're a far better team with him in it.