Kyrgiakos + Skrtel, for now...

[Modo]

IMO it's time for a change.

Kyrgiakos and Skrtel should continue at the back.

Johnson and Carra can compete for the RB spot.

I've come across as a cunt regarding Carra's involvement in the team. But we tend to forget all the mistakes he's done these past two seasons. I'm just being a cunt to try to prove my point, that Carra isn't as good as you all think and that we have better options on the bench.
The best players should play according to my book and IMO Kyrgiakos has surpassed him.

I think Skrtel and Kyrgiakos complements each other. One is good in the air and the other one is somewhat quick and a good tackler.

 

[etchy]

I'd pick Agger over Skrtel. Carragher did well on the right, with decent crosses. Shame about being top scorer of own goals tho!

 

[Asbo]

Carra will start needing resting soon.... but he's still our best central defender.

Right back should ALWAYS be Kelly's if Johnson is injured or off key

 

[Modo]

[quote author=etchy link=topic=42401.msg1204847#msg1204847 date=1287937008]
I'd pick Agger over Skrtel. Carragher did well on the right, with decent crosses. Shame about being top scorer of own goals tho!
[/quote]

The two against Man U and the one vs West Ham, Oh and Tottenham....Jesus this guy has really fucked us over sometimes.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Modokay link=topic=42401.msg1204851#msg1204851 date=1287937082]
[quote author=etchy link=topic=42401.msg1204847#msg1204847 date=1287937008]
I'd pick Agger over Skrtel. Carragher did well on the right, with decent crosses. Shame about being top scorer of own goals tho!
[/quote]

The two against Man U and the one vs West Ham, Oh and Tottenham....Jesus this guy has really fucked us over sometimes.
[/quote]

FFS he has also kept us in games much much more, he gives 100% and sweats blood for the shirt!

 

[the count]

Kyrgiakos was suited to a game like today where typical Big Sam tactics meant he would be called upon to deal with lots of high ball into the box.
Against a fast attack with clever interchanging he would be exposed big time I feel.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Modokay link=topic=42401.msg1204851#msg1204851 date=1287937082]
[quote author=etchy link=topic=42401.msg1204847#msg1204847 date=1287937008]
I'd pick Agger over Skrtel. Carragher did well on the right, with decent crosses. Shame about being top scorer of own goals tho!
[/quote]

The two against Man U and the one vs West Ham, Oh and Tottenham....Jesus this guy has really fucked us over sometimes.
[/quote]

Do you know which player scored most goals against Ray Clemence in his career?

Emlyn Hughes

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42401.msg1204849#msg1204849 date=1287937060]
but he's still our best central defender.
[/quote]

Is that phrase trademarked by Carra?
It never comes under any type of scrutiny...

I think Carra is the best "defender" but the best Central defender is Kyrgiakos, because unlike Carra he can score goals.

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42401.msg1204857#msg1204857 date=1287937325]
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=42401.msg1204851#msg1204851 date=1287937082]
[quote author=etchy link=topic=42401.msg1204847#msg1204847 date=1287937008]
I'd pick Agger over Skrtel. Carragher did well on the right, with decent crosses. Shame about being top scorer of own goals tho!
[/quote]

The two against Man U and the one vs West Ham, Oh and Tottenham....Jesus this guy has really fucked us over sometimes.
[/quote]

Do you know which player scored most goals against Ray Clemence in his career?

Emlyn Hughes
[/quote]

Crazy Horse.

 

[cobrastatus]

Carra still has at least 2 good years in him, I think, but I can definitely see a case being made for Kyrgiakos' selection as his partner at CB over Agger and Skrtel, situationally at least. Against the dirtier teams that will just try to bully us from set pieces(i'm thinking blackburn, bolton, chelsea to some extent), he is a must have since he's the only one of the 4 that is decent in the air. GOD how I miss Hyypia...

 

[mark1975]

Just beat me to that one asbo, what a hapless post, carra has been a top player for us and his ggod games far outweigh his poor ones, hes better than the greek even if partnership today was decent.

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=Modokay link=topic=42401.msg1204858#msg1204858 date=1287937328]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42401.msg1204849#msg1204849 date=1287937060]
but he's still our best central defender.
[/quote]

Is that phrase trademarked by Carra?
It never comes under any type of scrutiny...

I think Carra is the best "defender" but the best Central defender is Kyrgiakos, because unlike Carra he can score goals.
[/quote]

Oh, is that what defenders are for?

Then Ngog has been our best defender this season.

 

[the count]

I would never have though that the criteria for determining the best central defender is how many goals he can score ???

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42401.msg1204853#msg1204853 date=1287937174]
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=42401.msg1204851#msg1204851 date=1287937082]
[quote author=etchy link=topic=42401.msg1204847#msg1204847 date=1287937008]
I'd pick Agger over Skrtel. Carragher did well on the right, with decent crosses. Shame about being top scorer of own goals tho!
[/quote]

The two against Man U and the one vs West Ham, Oh and Tottenham....Jesus this guy has really fucked us over sometimes.
[/quote]

FFS he has also kept us in games much much more, he gives 100% and sweats blood for the shirt!
[/quote]

Yeah he has, but the last part about giving 100% and sweating blood, is good in theory but I mean if we bring back Aldridge he'd do the same, although he'd be shit.
Point is when your legs are gone it doesn't matter how hard you work, certain players (Berbatov) are still going to score hatricks against your team.

 

[mark1975]

So the measure of a centre back is how many goals they score? Is there something in the water in scandinavia?

 

[kingjulian]

[quote author=Modokay link=topic=42401.msg1204858#msg1204858 date=1287937328]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42401.msg1204849#msg1204849 date=1287937060]
but he's still our best central defender.
[/quote]

Is that phrase trademarked by Carra?
It never comes under any type of scrutiny...

I think Carra is the best "defender" but the best Central defender is Kyrgiakos, because unlike Carra he can score goals.
[/quote]

How exactly did the ability to score goals earn him the classification of best "Central Defender???"

I'm actually torn on Carra continuing to hold down an untouchable spot as a central defender, but it has to be better players than Kyrigiakos, Skrtl, Agger etc who eventually bench him.

Kyrgiakos has his strengths but he doesn't really work well in a partnership with any of the other three defenders.

Carra/Kyrgiakos becomes too slow at the back.
Kyrgiakos/Skrtl is prone to lots of mistakes. Better opponents than Blackburn Rovers will test that.
Kyrgiakos/Agger - Agger is too injury prone to be counted as a regular partner to anyone.

We could do with shipping Agger or Skrtel and getting some other good defender, but its not that easy.

 

[monsieurdantes]

your idea is even stupider than hodgson's ideas

 

[Squiggles]

You can say a defenders job is to defend and you're right, but as risk of sounding like the Spide, he was arguably our most effective attacking player today and you can't just dismiss that. It's the same with Johnson really. He broke the deadlock, in what could have been a frustrating afternoon.

I like the Greek and whilst I accept that today was the perfect fixture for him, there are many of other teams who he should and could play against in the PL. I want to see him starting more. Whether that's at Skrtel, Carra's or Johnson's expense I don't really care at the moment. Our defence looked solid today, and I wouldn't be agaisnt seeing again in the future.

 

[Modo]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=42401.msg1204863#msg1204863 date=1287937501]
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=42401.msg1204858#msg1204858 date=1287937328]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42401.msg1204849#msg1204849 date=1287937060]
but he's still our best central defender.
[/quote]

Is that phrase trademarked by Carra?
It never comes under any type of scrutiny...

I think Carra is the best "defender" but the best Central defender is Kyrgiakos, because unlike Carra he can score goals.
[/quote]

Oh, is that what defenders are for?

Then Ngog has been our best defender this season.
[/quote]

Nice avatar.
Hey taking things out of context are we?

What I meant was the complete package, a good central defender that is good at defending and dangerous on set pieces. Has Kyrgiakos in two seasons scored more goals than Carra has in 10+ years at Liverpool?

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Modokay link=topic=42401.msg1204851#msg1204851 date=1287937082]
[quote author=etchy link=topic=42401.msg1204847#msg1204847 date=1287937008]
I'd pick Agger over Skrtel. Carragher did well on the right, with decent crosses. Shame about being top scorer of own goals tho!
[/quote]

The two against Man U and the one vs West Ham, Oh and Tottenham....Jesus this guy has really fucked us over sometimes.
[/quote]


he's been right at the heart of the best things this club has done for the past 20 years, so show a bit of respect ffs.

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42401.msg1204873#msg1204873 date=1287937865]
You can say a defenders job is to defend and you're right, but as risk of sounding like the Spide, he was arguably our most effective attacking player today and you can't just dismiss that. It's the same with Johnson really. He broke the deadlock, in what could have been a frustrating afternoon.

I like the Greek and whilst I accept that today was the perfect fixture for him, there are many of other teams who he should and could play against in the PL. I want to see him starting more. Whether that's at Skrtel or Carra's expense I don't really care at the moment. Our defence looked solid today, and I wouldn't be agaisnt seeing again in the future.


[/quote]

Fair and balanced.

 

[Modo]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42401.msg1204875#msg1204875 date=1287937901]
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=42401.msg1204851#msg1204851 date=1287937082]
[quote author=etchy link=topic=42401.msg1204847#msg1204847 date=1287937008]
I'd pick Agger over Skrtel. Carragher did well on the right, with decent crosses. Shame about being top scorer of own goals tho!
[/quote]

The two against Man U and the one vs West Ham, Oh and Tottenham....Jesus this guy has really fucked us over sometimes.
[/quote]


he's been right at the heart of the best things this club has done for the past 20 years, so show a bit of respect ffs.
[/quote]

Yeah you're right. But come on leading OG scorer. It is a bit funny.

 

[Squiggles]

No, it isn't.

It's a stupid fucking statistic used by morons to denounce a fine defender.

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42401.msg1204879#msg1204879 date=1287938079]
No, it isn't.

It's a stupid fucking statistic used by morons to denounce a fine defender.
[/quote]
I bet if it was Gary Neville topping that list you'd have a different opinion.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Modokay link=topic=42401.msg1204880#msg1204880 date=1287938153]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42401.msg1204879#msg1204879 date=1287938079]
No, it isn't.

It's a stupid fucking statistic used by morons to denounce a fine defender.
[/quote]
I bet if it was Gary Neville topping that list you'd have a different opinion.
[/quote]

It would be funny, yes, but it doesn't mean I'd take any notice of the statistic when analysing his defending.

 

[etchy]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42401.msg1204879#msg1204879 date=1287938079]
No, it isn't.
It's a stupid fucking statistic used by morons to denounce a fine defender.
[/quote]
It is rather moronic to use this stat against JC since everybody can see that he's done so much more good than bad. I'd betcha he'll get some ribbing from the other lads. It's more in good fun than malicious. But ok, looking back I really wanted to throttle him after that double own goal against the Mancs.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Modokay link=topic=42401.msg1204880#msg1204880 date=1287938153]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42401.msg1204879#msg1204879 date=1287938079]
No, it isn't.

It's a stupid fucking statistic used by morons to denounce a fine defender.
[/quote]
I bet if it was Gary Neville topping that list you'd have a different opinion.
[/quote]

No, it wouldn't.

The reason we hate Neville is because he was a fantastic defender.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Modokay link=topic=42401.msg1204877#msg1204877 date=1287937993]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42401.msg1204875#msg1204875 date=1287937901]
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=42401.msg1204851#msg1204851 date=1287937082]
[quote author=etchy link=topic=42401.msg1204847#msg1204847 date=1287937008]
I'd pick Agger over Skrtel. Carragher did well on the right, with decent crosses. Shame about being top scorer of own goals tho!
[/quote]

The two against Man U and the one vs West Ham, Oh and Tottenham....Jesus this guy has really fucked us over sometimes.
[/quote]


he's been right at the heart of the best things this club has done for the past 20 years, so show a bit of respect ffs.
[/quote]

Yeah you're right. But come on leading OG scorer. It is a bit funny.
[/quote]


well, he's played a LOT of games! statistically probably not that surprising.

my take on him is that, yes, he probably does need replacing in the next year or so, but i agree with julian that our other options are all problematic. i'd like to see kelly play whenever possible because he could be a long-term option to replace him so needs experience, and daniel ayala should also be tested when he comes back from hull.

if neither of them succeed then we'll have to buy a new defender, and maybe sell one of agger or skrtel.

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42401.msg1204881#msg1204881 date=1287938288]
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=42401.msg1204880#msg1204880 date=1287938153]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42401.msg1204879#msg1204879 date=1287938079]
No, it isn't.

It's a stupid fucking statistic used by morons to denounce a fine defender.
[/quote]
I bet if it was Gary Neville topping that list you'd have a different opinion.
[/quote]

It would be funny, yes, but it doesn't mean I'd take any notice of the statistic when analysing his defending.
[/quote]

Haven't used that list to denounce Carra. Don't really have to.

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42401.msg1204883#msg1204883 date=1287938358]
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=42401.msg1204880#msg1204880 date=1287938153]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42401.msg1204879#msg1204879 date=1287938079]
No, it isn't.

It's a stupid fucking statistic used by morons to denounce a fine defender.
[/quote]
I bet if it was Gary Neville topping that list you'd have a different opinion.
[/quote]

No, it wouldn't.

The reason we hate Neville is because he was a fantastic defender.
[/quote]

Actually, the reason we hate him is because he's a Manc and a rat-faced cunt.