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Kuyt

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[quote author=Stu link=topic=38579.msg1041169#msg1041169 date=1264182879]
Kuyt is a hugely important member of our starting XI. He isn't a squadie, not by a long shot. His contribution to the team has been very valuable over the last 18/24 months. His first touch can bug the shit out of me on occasion and his 'untouchable' status is a little hard to understand when he is in a funk. But those gripes aside, I rate him as a player and I hope he stays at the club for a few more years and collects some winners medals.
[/quote]

He had a good season last year , when I was forced to eat my words, but he is, or should be, no more than a squad player.
We should have better than him up front, and we should have better than him on the right, you can't go squeezing people into teams, and justifying it because they are nice guys.
Three things go into making a good player, speed, touch and a football brain. Some players can still be great and don't have one of those in abundance, but compensate by oozing large excess's in the other two.
Dirk is limited in all three.

regards
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38579.msg1041188#msg1041188 date=1264183922]
[quote author=Stu link=topic=38579.msg1041169#msg1041169 date=1264182879]
Kuyt is a hugely important member of our starting XI. He isn't a squadie, not by a long shot. His contribution to the team has been very valuable over the last 18/24 months. His first touch can bug the shit out of me on occasion and his 'untouchable' status is a little hard to understand when he is in a funk. But those gripes aside, I rate him as a player and I hope he stays at the club for a few more years and collects some winners medals.
[/quote]

He had a good season last year , when I was forced to eat my words, but he is, or should be, no more than a squad player.
We should have better than him up front, and we should have better than him on the right, you can't go squeezing people into teams, and justifying it because they are nice guys.
Three things go into making a good player, speed, touch and a football brain. Some players can still be great and don't have one of those in abundance, but compensate by oozing large excess's in the other two.
Dirk is limited in all three.

regards
[/quote]

Agree with almost everything you said other than the highlighted portion, Vlads. I think Dirk has it in loads.
 
The three things mentioned are indeed essential but i think are more attributes required to make it at the top. Drive, determination, strength, supreme physical fitness, speed (not just pace), awareness. Kuyt has all these and has influenced and won more games for us than he has lost. I know you don't rate him Vlad, I've read your posts. But seeig as he is here and first choice, we all might as well get behind him and support him. A la Lucas!
 
I'm not quite sure whether the position that he starts diminishes his goal return. There are not many right attackers (cos Dirk is not a winger) can deputise upfront anyway so if anyting it makes him a more valuable player to have.

Can we get better? Define better. Who can get more goals than him playing redominantly right side and contribute to the team like he does. Dirk's not easy on the eye, his first touch is unreliable, his finishing can be erratic. His contribution howver, cannot be argued with and that makes him invaluable to us.

I prefer to think of what he can do well rather than what he can't.
 
That's a pretty fair summation above.

There's no denying he shouldn't be an 'untouchable' - no player should - but his value and worth to the team last season, regardless of where he played, is easily measured in goals and assists.

He has plenty of both

I try and be fair and objective with most players (apart from one or two beyond defence) and I think Kuyt (like Alonso before, when many of the people in this thread were ruining him) deserves more respect than he is often afforded.
 
See also;

Gerrard, Riise, Finnan, Hyypia, Carragher, Hamann and a whole host of legends who have - at one time or another - come under withering fire from people you would hope to know better. But don't.
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=38579.msg1041219#msg1041219 date=1264187001]
Dirk's not easy on the eye, his first touch is unreliable, his finishing can be erratic. His contribution howver, cannot be argued with and that makes him invaluable to us.

I prefer to think of what he can do well rather than what he can't.
[/quote]

Shouldn't he not be part of our attacking moves then. And instead finally morph into the playerr he should be a defensive right midfielder who only goes forward on set pieces or when we are chasing or in front by tons so he won't stunt our football. You know what I think about him. He's too poor on the technical side for us. He's not good enough to start every day. Would be a predominantly CL footballer for me.

But he is determination exemplified (a 20 per se) and will always get you numbers and motd moments. But he's a big reason of why we are out of the CL, FA, and League title this year.

Dirk consistently slows down attacks, Is unable to keep up mentally or pace wise with our creative players ideas. Loses possession and invites pressure on our defense despite helping. So I'm pretty confident he isn't invaluable for 12 goals and 6-8 assists when we are trying to win title be able to play gritty football and fancy football
 
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=38579.msg1041374#msg1041374 date=1264193598]But he's a big reason of why we are out of the CL[/quote]

He's also the reason we were in the European Cup this year.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38579.msg1041382#msg1041382 date=1264194127]
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=38579.msg1041374#msg1041374 date=1264193598]But he's a big reason of why we are out of the CL[/quote]

He's also the reason we were in the European Cup this year.
[/quote]

Ha !

In.Your.Face !
 
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=38579.msg1041374#msg1041374 date=1264193598]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=38579.msg1041219#msg1041219 date=1264187001]
Dirk's not easy on the eye, his first touch is unreliable, his finishing can be erratic. His contribution howver, cannot be argued with and that makes him invaluable to us.

I prefer to think of what he can do well rather than what he can't.
[/quote]

Shouldn't he not be part of our attacking moves then. And instead finally morph into the playerr he should be a defensive right midfielder who only goes forward on set pieces or when we are chasing or in front by tons so he won't stunt or football. You know what I think about him. He's too poor on the technical side for us. He's not good enough to start every day. Would be a predominantly CL footballer for me.

But he is determination exemplified (a 20 per se) and will always get you numbers and motd moments. But he's a big reason of why we are out of the CL, FA, and League title this year.

Dirk consistently slows down attacks, Is unable to keep up mentally or pace wise with our creative players ideas. Loses possession and invites pressure on our defense despite helping. So I'm pretty confident he isn't invaluable for 12 goals and 6-8 assists when we are trying to win title be able to play gritty football and fancy football
[/quote]Sorry could you just clarify what part of the injury time goals conceeded against Lyon and Fiorentina when we were in positions to win the games and get the points needed to progress is Dirks fault. I guess from what you're saying that it's a BIG part but I for the life of me can't figure it out.
 
I believe it was against Lyon where he over kicked a ball going out of bounds in our half that led directly into a Lyon winner. And he is about 1/4 of our attacking ineptitude for 95% of our season.

I was being harsh in some respect but I'll also honor the greatness he has achieved with how little natural football talent he has. It's not like he isn't everyones favorite character. I mean even I wish all the players gave it all like him and got themselves as many places as they could. But he just isn't right of the PL or really any speedy pass and move game plan. The worst of Dirk Kuyt imo, is that he is signed to a big money contract keeping him here until 2013 and as long Rafa Benitez is here he's going to get constant playing time in a position where he is aweful and its going to play there non stop unless Maxi is the end to that. SO I think the faults I point out to do with Dirk are largely accurate.
 
I'm not going to weigh in on whether I think Dirk is ultimately good enough to be a regular starter on the wing for us (I'm genuinely torn). Just going to say I think he'd be a cracker of a player in the Bundesliga.
 
Hey Brendan

Dirk Kuyt
DirkKuyt.gif


^^^
stats taken from soccernet.

he is good, but I don't want him up front because he isn't clinical like Torres. And I don't want him out wide because he isn't creative at all and he can't control a football consistently and does less than expected if he can.
 
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=38579.msg1041464#msg1041464 date=1264202176]
Just going to say I think he'd be a cracker of a player in the Bundesliga.
[/quote]

Voronin was a cracking player there
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38579.msg1041382#msg1041382 date=1264194127]
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=38579.msg1041374#msg1041374 date=1264193598]But he's a big reason of why we are out of the CL[/quote]

He's also the reason we were in the European Cup this year.
[/quote]

That was last year which was mostly thanks to Babel but my how people forget. I also can't argue that he hasn't produced for us but for the most part I'd rather be playing Benayoun on the right with Babel as backup. Kuyt is easily our 2nd best striker right now.
 
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=38579.msg1041477#msg1041477 date=1264203480]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38579.msg1041382#msg1041382 date=1264194127]
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=38579.msg1041374#msg1041374 date=1264193598]But he's a big reason of why we are out of the CL[/quote]

He's also the reason we were in the European Cup this year.
[/quote]

That was last year which was mostly thanks to Babel but my how people forget. I also can't argue that he hasn't produced for us but for the most part I'd rather be playing Benayoun on the right with Babel as backup. Kuyt is easily our 2nd best striker right now.
[/quote]

Hang on there now, Mister Cocka Doo Dee !

Dirkalige scored the goal against Stand And De Liege that meant we qualified for The Group Stage (Proper).
 
for last years champions league. We were second last year and were in the CHampions league from the beginning this year where we got knocked out straight away.

And that goal was a terrific cross by Babel, that thank Kuyt he has that unstopabble stamina which allowed him to put a touch on it.


[quote author=themn link=topic=38579.msg1041481#msg1041481 date=1264203902]
Mister Cocka Doo Dee !
[/quote]

fyi I disliked this
 
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=38579.msg1041483#msg1041483 date=1264204051]
fyi I disliked this
[/quote]

Your papa ain't home...WHY ?
 
[quote author=Asim link=topic=38579.msg1041476#msg1041476 date=1264203264]
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=38579.msg1041464#msg1041464 date=1264202176]
Just going to say I think he'd be a cracker of a player in the Bundesliga.
[/quote]

Voronin was a cracking player there
[/quote]

This was actually my frame of reference. And I didn't mean disrespect to Kuyt in saying it either.
 
Three reasons why I love Dirk.

1. He gives his all every match no matter what and he had no ties to LFC before coming to Anfield.

2. He is a great person off the pitch, and does a lot of charity work.

3. He is one of the ugliest mugs in the premier league and yet still managed to managed a very fine wifey!! 😛 8)
 
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=38579.msg1041477#msg1041477 date=1264203480]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38579.msg1041382#msg1041382 date=1264194127]
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=38579.msg1041374#msg1041374 date=1264193598]But he's a big reason of why we are out of the CL[/quote]

He's also the reason we were in the European Cup this year.
[/quote]

That was last year which was mostly thanks to Babel but my how people forget. I also can't argue that he hasn't produced for us but for the most part I'd rather be playing Benayoun on the right with Babel as backup. Kuyt is easily our 2nd best striker right now.
[/quote]

If you believe that, Babel should be shown the door long before Kuyt.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38579.msg1041282#msg1041282 date=1264189862]
That's a pretty fair summation above.

There's no denying he shouldn't be an 'untouchable' - no player should - but his value and worth to the team last season, regardless of where he played, is easily measured in goals and assists.

He has plenty of both

I try and be fair and objective with most players (apart from one or two beyond defence) and I think Kuyt (like Alonso before, when many of the people in this thread were ruining him) deserves more respect than he is often afforded.
[/quote]

You see, I don't get that. I agree with almost everything you've said there and yet you're convinced I have a vendetta against Kuyt b/c I'm all keeping him off the starting line up when he's in his 2-3 month ruts (you yourself have said he's been poor the past few months). The last part unfortunately is not true - you've slammed a few players non-stop for no reason and then let go once they've improved.
 
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38579.msg1040871#msg1040871 date=1264161880]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38579.msg1040853#msg1040853 date=1264160786]
Have we got a breakdown of Dirks 7 goals?

regards
[/quote]

Pen vs Spurs - doesn't matter would have scored that anywhere on pitch. IRRELEVANT OF STARTING POSITION.
1st goal vs Spurs - tee'd up by Aquilani. Scored as a FORWARD.
goal vs Arsenal - steered home a loose ball from a freekick. IRRELEVANT OF STARTING POSITION.
goal vs Everton - pounced on a keeper spillage, after being moved upfront. Scored as a FORWARD.
goal vs West Ham - bundled the ball over the line after a Gerrard header from was goalbound. IRRELEVANT OF STARTING POSITION.
goal vs Debrecen - another poacher's finish. Pouncing on a keeper's spillage from a Torres shot. Partner Fernando upfront for this game. Scored as a FORWARD.
goal vs Burnley - slotting home a loose ball from a Yossi shot. Started on the right wing interchanging with Yossi this game and was in the forward position when he scored. But i'll give him this one. Goal scored as a WINGER.
goal vs Stoke - great work from Gerrard on the right, who crosses home for Dirk to tap in from a few yards. Goal scored as FORWARD.


[/quote]
You should update this!

He played mainly on the right, but tbf it looked more like a forward's goal.. So, I'm guessing.. Irrelevant of starting position?
 
That Kuyt analysis is one of the shittest, funniest things I've seen on this site

'IRRELEVANT'

What a fucking cock
 
[quote author=Mike Hunt link=topic=38579.msg1046322#msg1046322 date=1264872368]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38579.msg1040871#msg1040871 date=1264161880]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38579.msg1040853#msg1040853 date=1264160786]
Have we got a breakdown of Dirks 7 goals?

regards
[/quote]

Pen vs Spurs - doesn't matter would have scored that anywhere on pitch. IRRELEVANT OF STARTING POSITION.
1st goal vs Spurs - tee'd up by Aquilani. Scored as a FORWARD.
goal vs Arsenal - steered home a loose ball from a freekick. IRRELEVANT OF STARTING POSITION.
goal vs Everton - pounced on a keeper spillage, after being moved upfront. Scored as a FORWARD.
goal vs West Ham - bundled the ball over the line after a Gerrard header from was goalbound. IRRELEVANT OF STARTING POSITION.
goal vs Debrecen - another poacher's finish. Pouncing on a keeper's spillage from a Torres shot. Partner Fernando upfront for this game. Scored as a FORWARD.
goal vs Burnley - slotting home a loose ball from a Yossi shot. Started on the right wing interchanging with Yossi this game and was in the forward position when he scored. But i'll give him this one. Goal scored as a WINGER.
goal vs Stoke - great work from Gerrard on the right, who crosses home for Dirk to tap in from a few yards. Goal scored as FORWARD.


[/quote]
You should update this!

He played mainly on the right, but tbf it looked more like a forward's goal.. So, I'm guessing.. Irrelevant of starting position?
[/quote]

"Irrelevant of starting position" I can help you with that based on looking at the data. He scores goals "Irrelevant of starting position".
 
[quote author=Mike Hunt link=topic=38579.msg1046322#msg1046322 date=1264872368]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38579.msg1040871#msg1040871 date=1264161880]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38579.msg1040853#msg1040853 date=1264160786]
Have we got a breakdown of Dirks 7 goals?

regards
[/quote]

Pen vs Spurs - doesn't matter would have scored that anywhere on pitch. IRRELEVANT OF STARTING POSITION.
1st goal vs Spurs - tee'd up by Aquilani. Scored as a FORWARD.
goal vs Arsenal - steered home a loose ball from a freekick. IRRELEVANT OF STARTING POSITION.
goal vs Everton - pounced on a keeper spillage, after being moved upfront. Scored as a FORWARD.
goal vs West Ham - bundled the ball over the line after a Gerrard header from was goalbound. IRRELEVANT OF STARTING POSITION.
goal vs Debrecen - another poacher's finish. Pouncing on a keeper's spillage from a Torres shot. Partner Fernando upfront for this game. Scored as a FORWARD.
goal vs Burnley - slotting home a loose ball from a Yossi shot. Started on the right wing interchanging with Yossi this game and was in the forward position when he scored. But i'll give him this one. Goal scored as a WINGER.
goal vs Stoke - great work from Gerrard on the right, who crosses home for Dirk to tap in from a few yards. Goal scored as FORWARD.


[/quote]
You should update this!

He played mainly on the right, but tbf it looked more like a forward's goal.. So, I'm guessing.. Irrelevant of starting position?
[/quote]*snigger*
 
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