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Kuyt

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[quote author=GOD_23 link=topic=38579.msg1040907#msg1040907 date=1264163008]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38579.msg1040871#msg1040871 date=1264161880]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38579.msg1040853#msg1040853 date=1264160786]
Have we got a breakdown of Dirks 7 goals?

regards
[/quote]

Pen vs Spurs - doesn't matter would have scored that anywhere on pitch. IRRELEVANT.
1st goal vs Spurs - tee'd up by Aquilani. Scored as a FORWARD.
goal vs Arsenal - steered home a loose ball from a freekick. IRRELEVANT.
goal vs Everton - pounced on a keeper spillage, after being moved upfront. Scored as a FORWARD.
goal vs West Ham - bundled the ball over the line after a Gerrard header from was goalbound. IRRELEVANT.
goal vs Debrecen - another poacher's finish. Pouncing on a keeper's spillage from a Torres shot. Partner Fernando upfront for this game. Scored as a FORWARD.
goal vs Burnley - slotting home a loose ball from a Yossi shot. Started on the right wing interchanging with Yossi this game and was in the forward position when he scored. But i'll give him this one. Goal scored as a WINGER.
goal vs Stoke - great work from Gerrard on the right, who crosses home for Dirk to tap in from a few yards. Goal scored as FORWARD.


[/quote]

Dirk played RW against Stoke..
[/quote]

He started there. Then got moved upfront once we were a few goals up.

His goal: Liverpool 4 Stoke City 0Try our new player
 
[quote author=Mike Hunt link=topic=38579.msg1040909#msg1040909 date=1264163273]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38579.msg1040900#msg1040900 date=1264162859]
[quote author=Mike Hunt link=topic=38579.msg1040891#msg1040891 date=1264162539]
Jesus Ibro, when you put it like that, I wonder why Fergie played Ronaldo on the right as he scored more "striker" goals than "winger" goals.
[/quote]

Look at Ronaldo's goals compilation videos. Tap ins, headers, long range, freekicks, penalties. The boy scored from everywhere. A magnificient player wherever you play him.
[/quote]
I agree with your last sentence.

Half of those goals, you would count them as irrelevant to his wing position though.

So to clarify, if Ronaldo started the game on the wing, but one counter attack, Rooney goes wide to cross to Ronaldo to finish in the box, would you count that as a 'striker' goal or a 'winger' goal?
[/quote]

I'd count it as a winger's goal if he wasn't specifically instructed by Fergie to play there as he interchanged naturally.

If it was clear that Fergie put him up there as a tactical change. Then of course it would be a striker's goal.. or at least, that's how I see it. You may differ.
 
Dirk played well on Wednesday but there have been times this season when he has been awful. When Dirk is bad, he's terrible and offers nothing and unfortunately that happens too often.

It was nice to see him leading the line, but he shouldn't be an untouchable selection on the right. We need someone who is more of an offensive threat.
 
"If those 7 goals came from the RW, i'd be ecstatic ... but how many have been (just like last year) from the ST position"


"I'm curious how many of those 8 goals were from RW and ST (the last 4 if I'm not mistaken were from the striker spot)."


"Less than half of Dirk Kuyt's league goals have come from playing at RW. I think it's 3 goals he's got from games at RW.

I know ... 3 goals ... and yet, that total (+ 4 assists to date) can only be beaten by Ronaldo and Ribery ... We're lucky I tell you".

"Woah, Dirk scored his first goal from right wing in HOW LONG? Yes how long? To be honest, I'm sick to fucking death of supposed football 'geniuses' talking about impressive Kuyt is (most people on this site, except for you, acknowledge Kuyt has been off form the past 2-3 months). He's DONE SWEET FUCK ALL the past 3 months bar a tap in goal against Everton and what should have been a winner against the Gooners. "

"WAIT! You want to take the great Dirk Kuyt out of the right wing slot? But he creates so much! And he works so hard! Woah, you must either no shit about football, be just stupidly anti-Dirk or be a Yossi lover."




On that obvious dummy:

"You see, there is the same issue with very smart posters like yourself. I'm not anti-Kuyt, I just don't think he's good enough in current form to be starting almost every game for a struggling Liverpool team. He's a good player, one I want in our squad but I don't think he should be our starting winger - if anything, he should be Torres's partner in a 4-4-2. How that makes me 'anti kuyt', I don't know - perhaps you can explain that to me?

Oh, and for a player who struggles to control a ball, you're telling me he wasn't trying to put a foot on the ball after calling for the pass, and then celebrating as if he had got a touch on the ball?"
 
Most of his goals last year (I think it was 8-9 of the 16) were while playing UP FRONT. I know you say "you see what you want to see" but check it out, then tell me who's seeing what he wants to see.
Click to expand...
so what you're saying wizzy is that he ONLY got 7 or 8 goals whilst playing at rm and that isn't enough, even though you contend that he doesn't play there for half the season? Right? So he got a bunch of goals at rm when played there and even more when played up front. Not really revelatory stuff Wizzo.
 
Brendan -

a) I cannot believe you just trekked back through 2 years of posts to find those
b) Smart man for not putting on dates - I was at one stage extremely 'anti' the player, I've obviously mellowed. But still, smart man for not putting dates.
c) I still don't see what you proved exactly with those copy & paste jobs, but well done on the copy & paste jobs nonetheless.

Andy,

"so what you're saying wizzy is that he ONLY got 7 or 8 goals whilst playing at rm and that isn't enough"

No, I'm not saying that. But you've made up your mind much like Brendan, so I will act like you and just not bother explaining myself for the umpteenth time.

"Not really revelatory stuff Wizzo"

You're 100% right. Well in!
 
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38579.msg1040908#msg1040908 date=1264163238]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=38579.msg1040890#msg1040890 date=1264162492]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38579.msg1040839#msg1040839 date=1264159576]
One good game (upfront) in about 2 months and you're hailing him the 3rd best RW in the world? Or am I reading that wrong? [/quote]

You're reading it wrong. Oncey thinks, when on form, Kuyt is one of the best RWs in the world. He advocates him being dropped when he's shit (and he's said this countless of times). I think that's fair - I don't agree with the 'best in the world bit' (he's very good but not that good) but otherwise, I concur.
[/quote]

Fair enough, if that's what Oncey thinks. I disagree anyway. On the right wing, form or no form, he's an average, hardworking wide player with the touch of a donkey (see the Reading games).

Up front, he's an 'good', hardworking forward player with the touch of a donkey, but scores goals.. form or no form.

In conclusion, he wouldn't get close to the top 10 in the world when it comes to wide players. As a forward, he gets goals, there's no denying that. Still not good enough to be a regular starter, but I can certainly see his value there and with a partner he's a very good poacher (so long as the finish doesn't require any technique).[/quote]

yeah his first goal against spurs was a tap in alright...
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=38579.msg1040931#msg1040931 date=1264164211]
Brendan -

a) I cannot believe you just trekked back through 2 years of posts to find those
b) Smart man for not putting on dates - I was at one stage extremely 'anti' the player, I've obviously mellowed. But still, smart man for not putting dates.
c) I still don't see what you proved exactly with those copy & paste jobs, but well done on the copy & paste jobs nonetheless.

Andy,

"so what you're saying wizzy is that he ONLY got 7 or 8 goals whilst playing at rm and that isn't enough"

No, I'm not saying that. But you've made up your mind much like Brendan, so I will act like you and just not bother explaining myself for the umpteenth time.

"Not really revelatory stuff Wizzo"

You're 100% right. Well in!
[/quote]Hmmm you seem to be cross with me because Brendans getting under your skin. Not really fair but ok!
I'm perfectly happy to chat about this with you without getting playgroundy Wizz, I'm just never going to agree with you. Dirk is perfect as a rw in a team that doesn't utilise a 'big front man' PERFECT. He is awful in a 442 and was awful when we tried to play width (ie crouch up top) but we play a narrow 3 and he comes in and gets goals as well as protecting the fullback. Anyway I don't want to talk about this anymore, because-
a) I'm annoying you and don't want to.
b) ibro is writting off goals as irrelevant so none of this reaaaaally matters anyway.
 
Brendan hasn't got under my skin ... He's just being Brendan, you enjoy the good n' bad ...

I have no issue with Kuyt playing in the 4-2-3-1 RW slot when on form (we agree) but think we need him far far more as a ST in the 4-4-2 (where I don't think he's as able on the RW).

His goals come in spurts (last year, I think he had 6 within 1.5 months, then went cold for 2-3 months, then got 9. I cannot back these stats up as I'm going on memory, so if I'm wrong, I apologize) - and normally, when on form.

Kuyt's fine. So are you. So is Brendan. So is the weekend.
 
Poor the LeTallec

A total, flaming car-crash

What have I said about you posting in kuyt threads?

Just look at the evidence and wince
 
Kuyt is good on the wing when Torres is playing as well. Otherwise he's mostly average outthere. Albeit hardworking.

Kuyt is good in the forward-role when he's not finding himself too isolated - as he's no Torres he really needs teammates to back him up. Otherwise he's mostly just very average in that role as well. Albeit hardworking.

Kuyt is one of our unsong heroes and very important players (like Benayoun I might add) and even though he's been playing far to much this Season and must be completely knackered by now he still did a great workman-like job against Spurs, scoring vital goals as well.

He's never going to be a starplayer but less will do fine.
 
I should point out that I am extremely skeptical about an earlier assertion that only Messi and Ronaldo are better on the right

I could think of several in the Premiership I would prefer
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38579.msg1040945#msg1040945 date=1264165285]
There have been times this season when Kuyt has been as bad as Lucas.

Eat that fact.
[/quote]

The same could be said of the entire team. They've all been dross for the vast majority of it.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38579.msg1040944#msg1040944 date=1264165164]
I should point out that I am extremely skeptical about an earlier assertion that only Messi and Ronaldo are better on the right

I could think of several in the Premiership I would prefer
[/quote]Give it a few more weeks of him playing like he's wearing fucking wellies and I'd swap him for fucking Nunez
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38579.msg1040942#msg1040942 date=1264164997]
Poor the LeTallec

A total, flaming car-crash

What have I said about you posting in kuyt threads?

Just look at the evidence and wince
[/quote]

Not really, you just posted random posts of mine that didn't prove what you had said I'd said (sheesh, tongue twister that).

I'm not really wincing, or that impressed.

But if you want me to wince just for you, so you can feel you've got one 'on me', I will

Just give me the signal boss.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=38579.msg1040946#msg1040946 date=1264165433]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38579.msg1040945#msg1040945 date=1264165285]
There have been times this season when Kuyt has been as bad as Lucas.

Eat that fact.
[/quote]

The same could be said of the entire team. They've all been dross for the vast majority of it.
[/quote]

I think the two of them and Insua at time have been exceptionally bad.
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38579.msg1040949#msg1040949 date=1264165697]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=38579.msg1040946#msg1040946 date=1264165433]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38579.msg1040945#msg1040945 date=1264165285]
There have been times this season when Kuyt has been really bad-looking.

Eat that fact.
[/quote]

The same could be said of the entire team. They've all been dross for the vast majority of it.
[/quote]

I think the two of them and Insua are really un-attractive.
[/quote]

Really !
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38579.msg1040944#msg1040944 date=1264165164]
I should point out that I am extremely skeptical about an earlier assertion that only Messi and Ronaldo are better on the right

I could think of several in the Premiership I would prefer
[/quote]

In terms of sheer talent and skills I concur.

Commitment and attitude-wise I'm not so sure though.

When we're seeing the likes of Torres, Gerrard and Aquilani beeing fielded at the same time, then we really need these kind of no-nonsense 100 percent committed players who's not affraid of getting stuck in when it hurts the most.

It's like a game of chess really, they can't all be queens and kings. We need runners, jumpers and peasants as well. Kuyt's the epitome of a running, jumping peasant.
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38579.msg1040960#msg1040960 date=1264166561]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38579.msg1040944#msg1040944 date=1264165164]
I should point out that I am extremely skeptical about an earlier assertion that only Messi and Ronaldo are better on the right

I could think of several in the Premiership I would prefer
[/quote]

In terms of sheer talent and skills I concur.

Commitment and attitude-wise I'm not so sure though.

When we're seeing the likes of Torres, Gerrard and Aquilani beeing fielded at the same time, then we really need these kind of no-nonsense 100 percent committed players who's not affraid of getting stuck in when it hurts the most.

It's like a game of chess really, they can't all be queens and kings. We need runners, jumpers and peasants as well. Kuyt's the epitome of a running, jumping peasant.
[/quote]

Hahaha.. I like, but seriously KHL?

Who are all these running, jumping peasants that United have in forward positions, to you know, "get stuck in when it hurts the most"? Berbatov? Valencia? Giggs? Rooney?

Nice idea, but quality always wins out over quantity.. especially over 38 games.
 
Take your licks like a man, Letall

What my effortless and cursory flick through the first few pages of a Kuyt search proves is that;

1) You have an obvious and long-running Kuyt agenda
2) You bang on about where he scores his goals from a lot
3) You make stuff up and are inconsistent, and
4) This isn't the first, and nor will it be the last, Kuyt thread in which you've made a fool out of yourself

Wear it
 
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38579.msg1040974#msg1040974 date=1264167029]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38579.msg1040960#msg1040960 date=1264166561]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38579.msg1040944#msg1040944 date=1264165164]
I should point out that I am extremely skeptical about an earlier assertion that only Messi and Ronaldo are better on the right

I could think of several in the Premiership I would prefer
[/quote]

In terms of sheer talent and skills I concur.

Commitment and attitude-wise I'm not so sure though.

When we're seeing the likes of Torres, Gerrard and Aquilani beeing fielded at the same time, then we really need these kind of no-nonsense 100 percent committed players who's not affraid of getting stuck in when it hurts the most.

It's like a game of chess really, they can't all be queens and kings. We need runners, jumpers and peasants as well. Kuyt's the epitome of a running, jumping peasant.
[/quote]

Hahaha.. I like, but seriously KHL?

Who are all these running, jumping peasants that United have in forward positions, to you know, "get stuck in when it hurts the most"? Berbatov? Valencia? Giggs? Rooney?

Nice idea, but quality always wins out over quantity.. especially over 38 games.
[/quote]
The likes of Park, Fletcher and to some extent even Rooney are certainly not affraid of getting stuck in.

Uniteds main problem as I see it is that they haven't got in a new 'Queen' *sniggers* since Ronaldo left. It works both ways obviously and as Valencia, Berbatov, Giggs et all simply doesn't have his class they'll struggle.

PS My point wasn't about quality v quantity but more about the differences in quality. If that makes any sense.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38579.msg1040978#msg1040978 date=1264167421]
Take your licks like a man, Letall

What my effortless and cursory flick through the first few pages of a Kuyt search proves is that;

1) You have an obvious and long-running Kuyt agenda
- Yes, I have an agenda. Let me spell it out. I want him as Torres partner in a 4-4-2, or when 'on form', in the RW of the 4-2-3-1. I don't think he should be playing when he's in poor form (which normally, as even you admit, has come in spurts of 2-3 months). No agenda there as far as I can tell.
2) You bang on about where he scores his goals from a lot
- Only when people bang on about the goal total insinuating it's all from the right wing. It never is.
3) You make stuff up and are inconsistent, and
- I haven't made stuff up. I made an exaggerated claim (90%), that you've taken it out of context shows to me that you're clutching here. I have no freaking clue how many of the last 50-100 games Kuyt has played at RW for Liverpool, I was just throwing a high # b/c it's most likely (against 'estimating') over 75%.
4) This isn't the first, and nor will it be the last, Kuyt thread in which you've made a fool out of yourself
- False, as usual.

Wear it
[/quote]

As I said earlier, it's rather sad that one of 6cm's best footy posters can barely post anymore without insulting posters or players. It's a waste to be honest of one of our best posters, but hey, at least you chase some of our best ones away to make up for it so we feel it even more.
 
I'd love it if more of our players scored 7-8 irrelevant goals a season...

P.S. Please, don't chase me away. Thanks in advance
 
[quote author=Phoenix link=topic=38579.msg1041001#msg1041001 date=1264169187]
I'd love it if more of our players scored 7-8 irrelevant goals a season...
[/quote]

You've clearly misunderstood the post but it didn't stop you from getting in your one-liner.

Irrelevant of position.. he would have scored them wherever he played.. not the actual goals themselves being irrelevant.

But hey, this is quite typical of SCM posting.. as you were..
 
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