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Kuyt

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[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=38579.msg1040998#msg1040998 date=1264169070]
Anyone who allows themselves to be 'chased away' on an internet forum is a bit of a bellend anyway.
[/quote]
As there's often an incredibly bad atmosphere on these boards when things aren't going to well on the pitch, posters could be tempted to leave simply because they get bored to death of the great ammount of personal abuse on here.

They are maybe not 'chased away' just fed up.
 
Yeah, ibro. We need more of your fucking 'expert analysis'

'Tap-in . Irrelevant'

'Set-piece. Irrelevant'

Fucking hell
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38579.msg1040997#msg1040997 date=1264169015]
Like who, exactly?

I haven't chased anyone anywhere.

Or is this made-up/ exaggerated too?
[/quote]

Oh good point, I made it up! My bad dude.
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38579.msg1041007#msg1041007 date=1264169606]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=38579.msg1040998#msg1040998 date=1264169070]
Anyone who allows themselves to be 'chased away' on an internet forum is a bit of a bellend anyway.
[/quote]
As there's often an incredibly bad atmosphere on these boards when things aren't going to well on the pitch, posters could be tempted to leave simply because they get bored to death of the great ammount of personal abuse on here.

They are maybe not 'chased away' just fed up.
[/quote]

And they're fairly 'big names' unfortunately too ... Oh well, not the end of the world.
 
As long as he scores them what difference does it make?

And about the one-liners I avoid to write long posts since my english isn't as good as I'd want it to be
 
At risk of quiffing, it's not the goals he score but the ones he doesn't that frustrate me.

A typical Deadly volleyed effort almost never flies into the top corner.

More often than not, if it doesn't go into the ground first he has an incedible knack of finding the keeper. Just a yard either side would do, but no, his radar is well and truly tuned into the keeper.

Sure he got a nice goal the other day but they tend to be few and far between.

He does get quite a few chances and I'm sure another player would have more than 8 by now.
 
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38579.msg1041005#msg1041005 date=1264169486]
Irrelevant of position.. he would have scored them wherever he played.. not the actual goals themselves being irrelevant.

But hey, this is quite typical of SCM posting.. as you were..
[/quote]

Too late mate. You've now been 'tarred' (sp?) - Watch in 3 months time, Brendan will bring you up on it ... He's got a great memory the lad.
 
Players who play regardless of form are extremely frustrating and it makes people go OTT on the negative comments. Brendan, we've seen you're reaction to Lucas being irreplaceable in the last few months and this isn't so different. Obviously Dirk is more talented and has produced for us, at times, in the past. But this doesn't changed the fact that he does have a tendency to be extremely poor at times and this isn't reflected within his game time.

His time here has been so full of highs and lows, it makes Dirk a difficult player to summarise. I maintain that, after last seasons performances, we've been let down by Dirk Kuyt so far this year. He is a senior player after all, and I don't believe his overall level of performance has been good enough - although this could be said for plenty of others. I won't be too critical, his goal return is okay and he played extremely well against Spurs so lets' hope it's a sign of things to come.

Dirk's a good player and appreciate what he brings to us, but I think he should play as a striker far more often, and he doesn't deserve the 'untouchable' status at a club of our size. That should only belong to players of Torres, Gerrard and Carragher's calibre.
 
[quote author=Phoenix link=topic=38579.msg1041011#msg1041011 date=1264169854]
As long as he scores them what difference does it make?

And about the one-liners I avoid to write long posts since my english isn't as good as I'd want it to be
[/quote]

Fair enough.

Kuyt would have scored the pen against Spurs if he'd started at right back. But he wouldn't have scored that first goal he got if he was on the right wing, which is the point really. He's a proven goalscorer when played as a forward (his record both in Holland and upfront for us prove). But when he's played on the wing, he simply doesn't score the goals (or at least not with the 1 in 3 ratio) which the original post seemed to be suggesting.
 
[quote author=vantage link=topic=38579.msg1041012#msg1041012 date=1264169970]
At risk of quiffing, it's not the goals he score but the ones he doesn't that frustrate me.

A typical Deadly volleyed effort almost never flies into the top corner.

More often than not, if it doesn't go into the ground first he has an incedible knack of finding the keeper. Just a yard either side would do, but no, his radar is well and truly tuned into the keeper.

Sure he got a nice goal the other day but they tend to be few and far between.

He does get quite a few chances and I'm sure another player would have more than 8 by now.
[/quote]

I hadn't looked at it that way really, but imo he's good at positioning and that is why he gets more chances than the others. So isn't that one of the qualities of a good player?
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38579.msg1041008#msg1041008 date=1264169608]
Yeah, ibro. We need more of your fucking 'expert analysis'

'Tap-in . Irrelevant'

'Set-piece. Irrelevant'

Fucking hell
[/quote]

You know his post was not about that at all, people might not agree with it but it's a point worth making.
 
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38579.msg1041017#msg1041017 date=1264170377]
[quote author=Phoenix link=topic=38579.msg1041011#msg1041011 date=1264169854]
As long as he scores them what difference does it make?

And about the one-liners I avoid to write long posts since my english isn't as good as I'd want it to be
[/quote]

Fair enough.

Kuyt would have scored the pen against Spurs if he'd started at right back. But he wouldn't have scored that first goal he got if he was on the right wing, which is the point really. He's a proven goalscorer when played as a forward (his record both in Holland and upfront for us prove). But when he's played on the wing, he simply doesn't score the goals (or at least not with the 1 in 3 ratio) which the original post seemed to be suggesting.
[/quote]

He could've scored two on the wing though 😛 ... I just don't bite that "He doesn't score from the RW"

Edit: I don't think he scores more often from the right wing, just think he scores wherever you put him...
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=38579.msg1041013#msg1041013 date=1264169985]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38579.msg1041005#msg1041005 date=1264169486]
Irrelevant of position.. he would have scored them wherever he played.. not the actual goals themselves being irrelevant.

But hey, this is quite typical of SCM posting.. as you were..
[/quote]

Too late mate. You've now been 'tarred' (sp?) - Watch in 3 months time, Brendan will bring you up on it ... He's got a great memory the lad.
[/quote]

Hehe.. I post on US forums and Brendan is pretty harmless in comparison. You just have to take what he says with a pinch of salt and not feel the need to justify your opinion to him. There's too much of that around here. Post your opinion. If someone wants to honestly debate your opinion, engage. If they're looking for slanging contest, walk away.. life is too short.
 
6 good months in 3 1/2 years. Not good enough.
He's been dreadful this season.
We all like his attitude but working hard should be normal when you wear that shirt.
He's simply not good enough to be a regular starter.
 
[quote author=Phoenix link=topic=38579.msg1041024#msg1041024 date=1264170628]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38579.msg1041017#msg1041017 date=1264170377]
[quote author=Phoenix link=topic=38579.msg1041011#msg1041011 date=1264169854]
As long as he scores them what difference does it make?

And about the one-liners I avoid to write long posts since my english isn't as good as I'd want it to be
[/quote]

Fair enough.

Kuyt would have scored the pen against Spurs if he'd started at right back. But he wouldn't have scored that first goal he got if he was on the right wing, which is the point really. He's a proven goalscorer when played as a forward (his record both in Holland and upfront for us prove). But when he's played on the wing, he simply doesn't score the goals (or at least not with the 1 in 3 ratio) which the original post seemed to be suggesting.
[/quote]

He could've scored two on the wing though 😛 ... I just don't bite that "He doesn't score from the RW"

Edit: I don't think he scores more often from the right wing, just think he scores wherever you put him...
[/quote]

Yeah, I think there's some merit in that, especially with many of his goals being rebounds/tap-ins.

But then in saying that, he's more likely to get on the end of rebounds/tap-ins when played upfront. Also I don't feel he's taking anything away from our team play when he's used upfront. Whereas on the right wing, his contribution can be rather negative when he isn't scoring.
 
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38579.msg1041032#msg1041032 date=1264171116]
[quote author=Phoenix link=topic=38579.msg1041024#msg1041024 date=1264170628]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38579.msg1041017#msg1041017 date=1264170377]
[quote author=Phoenix link=topic=38579.msg1041011#msg1041011 date=1264169854]
As long as he scores them what difference does it make?

And about the one-liners I avoid to write long posts since my english isn't as good as I'd want it to be
[/quote]

Fair enough.

Kuyt would have scored the pen against Spurs if he'd started at right back. But he wouldn't have scored that first goal he got if he was on the right wing, which is the point really. He's a proven goalscorer when played as a forward (his record both in Holland and upfront for us prove). But when he's played on the wing, he simply doesn't score the goals (or at least not with the 1 in 3 ratio) which the original post seemed to be suggesting.
[/quote]

He could've scored two on the wing though 😛 ... I just don't bite that "He doesn't score from the RW"

Edit: I don't think he scores more often from the right wing, just think he scores wherever you put him...
[/quote]

Yeah, I think there's some merit in that, especially with many of his goals being rebounds/tap-ins.

But then in saying that, he's more likely to get on the end of rebounds/tap-ins when played upfront. Also I don't feel he's taking anything away from our team play when he's used upfront. Whereas on the right wing, his contribution can be rather negative when he isn't scoring.
[/quote]

When off form - I agree, but when in form I think he contributes quite well. Actually I think what Oncy posted above covers my point, so there's no need to repeat what's been already said...
 
Yes, Kuyt scores more when he's up front, takes penalties and is in the 6 yard box. And obviously he should. His goal return is good enough for a right wing/alternative to Torres striker. The only problem I have with him is that he has these dips in form, I fully expect him to kick on from this now and have a great run of form, and when he has one of them he's undroppable.
 
I don't see why the argument around his position has to be so contentious.

He *does* tend to score more regularly when played up front and it *is* a little disingenuous to hold up his goal scoring record as supporting evidence for a starting role on the right.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38579.msg1040878#msg1040878 date=1264162100]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38579.msg1040871#msg1040871 date=1264161880]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38579.msg1040853#msg1040853 date=1264160786]
Have we got a breakdown of Dirks 7 goals?

regards
[/quote]

Pen vs Spurs - doesn't matter would have scored that anywhere on pitch. IRRELEVANT.
1st goal vs Spurs - tee'd up by Aquilani. Scored as a FORWARD.
goal vs Arsenal - steered home a loose ball from a freekick. IRRELEVANT.
goal vs Everton - pounced on a keeper spillage, after being moved upfront. Scored as a FORWARD.
goal vs West Ham - bundled the ball over the line after a Gerrard header from was goalbound. IRRELEVANT.
goal vs Debrecen - another poacher's finish. Pouncing on a keeper's spillage from a Torres shot. Partner Fernando upfront for this game. Scored as a FORWARD.
goal vs Burnley - slotting home a loose ball from a Yossi shot. Started on the right wing interchanging with Yossi this game and was in the forward position when he scored. But i'll give him this one. Goal scored as a WINGER.
goal vs Stoke - great work from Gerrard on the right, who crosses home for Dirk to tap in from a few yards. Goal scored as FORWARD.


[/quote]

You're fucking irrelevant

[/quote]

Yeah Im not quite sure what point was being made there, does he mean that because he didn't hit the ball on the diagonal from the right handside of the pitch, that it doesn't count?
 
I'm a big Dirk Kuyt fan, always have been. Yes he was playing poorly for large parts of this season but then again so was the whole team.
Many say he shouldn't be an automatic starter on the right for us? But, if not Dirk, then who? We can't afford anyone who is better and no one in the squad would have been an improvement on him. Now that Maxi is here we might see Kuyt up top a bit more or rotated during period of poor form.
 
I think his point is that if you score off a freekick it doesn't matter what position you're playing in.

It's fair enough really, but it makes everything extremely complicated and probably isn't worth it.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=38579.msg1041062#msg1041062 date=1264173477]
I'm a big Dirk Kuyt fan, always have been. Yes he was playing poorly for large parts of this season but then again so was the whole team.
Many say he shouldn't be an automatic starter on the right for us? But, if not Dirk, then who? We can't afford anyone who is better and no one in the squad would have been an improvement on him. Now that Maxi is here we might see Kuyt up top a bit more or rotated during period of poor form.


[/quote]

Yossi is our best right sided player, IMO.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38579.msg1041063#msg1041063 date=1264173543]
I think his point is that if you score off a freekick it doesn't matter what position you're playing in.

It's fair enough really, but it makes everything extremely complicated and probably isn't worth it.
[/quote]

It's not very hard to grasp. Mark is just being difficult.

The 'irrelevant' goals against Arensal (freekick), West Ham (corner) and Spurs (penalty) were all from set pieces hence 'irrelevant of starting position'. Perhaps I should have been that abundanly clear for the pedants.

But it's like Keni, it's hardly contentious that he scores more (and most of goals) as a forward so i'm surprised to see it being a point argued.

Anyhow, I'm done.
 
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=38579.msg1041073#msg1041073 date=1264174206]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38579.msg1041063#msg1041063 date=1264173543]
I think his point is that if you score off a freekick it doesn't matter what position you're playing in.

It's fair enough really, but it makes everything extremely complicated and probably isn't worth it.
[/quote]

It's not very hard to grasp. Mark is just being difficult.

The 'irrelevant' goals against Arensal (freekick), West Ham (corner) and Spurs (penalty) were all from set pieces hence 'irrelevant of starting position'. Perhaps I should have been that abundanly clear for the pedants.

But it's like Keni, it's hardly contentious that he scores more (and most of goals) as a forward so i'm surprised to see it being a point argued.

Anyhow, I'm done.
[/quote]

The point is, he'll still score goals from there because he has the instinct to occasionally be in the right place at the right time. Not every wide player has to be a Pires, Ljungberg made clever runs from deep/wide, so did Garcia. Despite Kuyt's goals the other day, we've also found that he doesn't always thrive on carrying the goal burden upfront, and only really blossomed after he was shifted wide with less onus on him to be the goal getter, he got on with his game and started scoring goals, and often crucial ones too. I'm not saying we can't do better in terms of pace etc, but statistically we can by no means grumble at all at his goals and assists return.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38579.msg1041065#msg1041065 date=1264173587]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=38579.msg1041062#msg1041062 date=1264173477]
I'm a big Dirk Kuyt fan, always have been. Yes he was playing poorly for large parts of this season but then again so was the whole team.
Many say he shouldn't be an automatic starter on the right for us? But, if not Dirk, then who? We can't afford anyone who is better and no one in the squad would have been an improvement on him. Now that Maxi is here we might see Kuyt up top a bit more or rotated during period of poor form.


[/quote]

Yossi is our best right sided player, IMO.
[/quote]

I am a big fan of Yossi and wouldn't have any problem with him playing there for us if Kuyt if up top or being rested. As long as Yossi isn't out on the left i'm happy.
 
He's funny ,old Dirk, and everyones view of him.
He is like a big lovable Golden Labrador, that jumps all over you and licks your face and leaps into the sea for sticks that have been thrown, he just wants to please, which is great.

Dirks football life is sandwiched by occasionally punching above his weight, and everyone forgets what a shit three months he has had, and the bread bit, when he plays at his level for long periods.

Dirk , like a lot of our current team , would ideally be a squad player, regardless of that he should not play wide right when we have someone better to do that.

regards
 
Very good analogy there, Vlad.

I can't get upset with him, even when he's being rubbish.

And I love his Capatain Scarletness.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38579.msg1041107#msg1041107 date=1264178836]
He's funny ,old Dirk, and everyones view of him.
He is like a big lovable Golden Labrador, that jumps all over you and licks your face and leaps into the sea for sticks that have been thrown, he just wants to please, which is great.

Dirks football life is sandwiched by occasionally punching above his weight, and everyone forgets what a shit three months he has had, and the bread bit, when he plays at his level for long periods.

Dirk , like a lot of our current team , would ideally be a squad player, regardless of that he should not play wide right when we have someone better to do that.

regards


[/quote]
Haha very good and absolutely spot on.
 
Kuyt is a hugely important member of our starting XI. He isn't a squadie, not by a long shot. His contribution to the team has been very valuable over the last 18/24 months. His first touch can bug the shit out of me on occasion and his 'untouchable' status is a little hard to understand when he is in a funk. But those gripes aside, I rate him as a player and I hope he stays at the club for a few more years and collects some winners medals.
 
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