Konoplyanka (a tiny bit NSFW, sorry)

[Red Mullet]

This: -

Of course it does. Whenever a team goes through a bad patch of form, it's often due to injuries to important players. Having more quality and depth in the squad allows you to navigate through injuries better. That's why you need a good squad, not just a "first 11."

does not equate to this: -

Well, we will probably go back to 4-3-3 then, provided there are no more injuries in midfield. These problems are solvable, but the lack of depth in the squad really increases the risk of a bad patch happening, which could well cost us the CL spot.

Squad depth means you have a potential to replace an injured player. A lack of it does not mean you're automatically get a bad patch. An injured, or even a banned player, doesn't necessarily mean you'll get a bad patch either.

Look at the beginning of the season, Sturridge was performing wonders without Suarez, so much so that we had our best start for a long time. Then Suarez returned and we stepped up another level. When Sturridge got injured did we regress? Don't think so. We've had a rotating back 4 but players have stepped up (granted not all the time but not significantly). We lost Gerrard but then the other midfielders stepped up. We lost Lucas so will Gerrard step up as DM? The Everton game suggests he's going to make every effort to do that.

We missed out on a signing, so did other teams. Some gained but those transfers aren't a guarantee that the team will mean it's improved. A few posters are saying that without a signing this January means we've blown all our chances of getting CL football next season. This is absurd, there are so many other factors that come in to play.

 

[Red Mullet]

Also, we've got a huge squad depth in CBs. Following your logic, there shouldn't have been a drop in form.... can't say our defence is looking solid?

 

[Whirly]

Also, we've got a huge squad depth in CBs. Following your logic, there shouldn't have been a drop in form.... can't say our defence is looking solid?

Well, imagine if we were starting Kelly and Skrtel in the Derby instead of Kolo.

 

[Red Mullet]

Well, imagine if we were starting Kelly and Skrtel in the Derby instead of Kolo.

And what if they played well?

 

[Whirly]

And what if they played well?

 

[Red Mullet]

Ha ha, right.

What ifs are great, completely unsubstantiated but considered strange when a positive outcome is put forward but totally believable when it's negative.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

Since this is a front four player, let's look at how we've coped in the league this season with the four mainstays (Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho, Sterling):

Suarez missed 5 games: 3W, 1D, 1L (defeated at home to Southampton when we were missing Coutinho as well)
Coutinho missed 5 games: 3W, 1D, 1L (defeated at home to Southampton when we were missing Suarez as well)
Sturridge missed 8 games: 5W, 3L (defeated away to Chelsea and City; defeated away to Hull when Sterling started and played 65 minutes after playing just 8 minutes in the past 6 games with 5 as an unused sub)

From the looks of it, we've managed to cope very well with one injury to our best front four players. As I've said a few times, Sterling's season effectively started only in December after Sturridge got injured and opened a slot for him - he wasn't even given much of a sniff during those 9 games when we were missing Suarez or/and Coutinho, and we pretty much still ended up with a 6W, 2D, 1L record.

While past performance isn't the perfect indicator of future displays, the record does give me confidence that with 15 league games left to go (and a maximum of 7 FA Cup games including replays and if we go all the way). We will be able to cope with one injury/suspension; we might be able to handle two assuming it's not to Sturridge and Suarez at the same time. I'm confident Ibe can do a Sterling and leapfrog Moses if given the chance and backing by Rodgers. Ibe's inclusion on the bench in January after vanishing from it since early October - and though we've got all four of out attacking players back and playing - seems to hint at him getting that break again soon.

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

Whether we needed him or isn't really the issue though. The issue is we've once again missed out on a transfer target, someone the Manager wanted.

People can dress it up whatever way they want but the whole transfer dealings at LFC needs serious examining.

This 100 times over.

Rodgers has been let down yet again by these useless fools in suits, this has to be it for that twat Ayre, get someone in who knows what the fuck they are doing.

The apologists are fucking lame in here, defending the indefensible.

 

[Whirly]

Since this is a front four player, let's look at how we've coped in the league this season with the four mainstays (Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho, Sterling):

Suarez missed 5 games: 3W, 1D, 1L (defeated at home to Southampton when we were missing Coutinho as well)
Coutinho missed 5 games: 3W, 1D, 1L (defeated at home to Southampton when we were missing Suarez as well)
Sturridge missed 8 games: 5W, 3L (defeated away to Chelsea and City; defeated away to Hull when Sterling started and played 65 minutes after playing just 8 minutes in the past 6 games with 5 as an unused sub)

From the looks of it, we've managed to cope very well with one injury to our best front four players. As I've said a few times, Sterling's season effectively started only in December after Sturridge got injured and opened a slot for him - he wasn't even given much of a sniff during those 9 games when we were missing Suarez or/and Coutinho, and we pretty much still ended up with a 6W, 2D, 1L record.

While past performance isn't the perfect indicator of future displays, the record does give me confidence that with 15 league games left to go (and a maximum of 7 FA Cup games including replays and if we go all the way). We will be able to cope with one injury/suspension; we might be able to handle two assuming it's not to Sturridge and Suarez at the same time. I'm confident Ibe can do a Sterling and leapfrog Moses if given the chance and backing by Rodgers. Ibe's inclusion on the bench in January after vanishing from it since early October - and though we've got all four of out attacking players back and playing - seems to hint at him getting that break again soon.

I don't think the argument is if we'll be okay or not with our current options, it's more a point that we would've been better off with Konoplyanka as another option than without. It's impossible to predict if Hendo is going to start contributing more goals from the MF or the like and we'll be okay for the stretch, but in the end it's another target that we've missed out on, and we'd be hard pressed to spend the money much better in future windows. A winger of his quality is going to cost roughly the same in the summer, but we would be much better off with another quality body available.

 

[Molbystwin]

Everyone is dissapointed weve missed out but not only am i sure we arevstrongbenough for top 4 finishing we could conceiveably do even better than fourth... weve just come off a massive result which can only boost morale and we are currently scoring for fun (touch wood, grateful kowtow to football gods) ...

We are not as strong as we were in our last great purple patch in the league when we had masher alonso stevie and torres on fire but by the same token we dont have champs league distractions...

flanno's progression is a completely unexpected boon, sterling is shaping up to be a really really good player as is henderson.....

Suarez is easily the match of Torres of old and Sturridge is growing into a truly dangerous striker of genuine merit....

yeah we missed out... we missed out on our 4th choice attacking addition.... yeah...

I would much rather we focussed on the positives push hard to finish in the CL ( which i think we deserve too considering how we play and are playing) and then get a higher choice target in summer....

overpaying for shit is much worse for us in the long term than underpaying in the short term...i'd rather we felt annoyed about not buying who we want occasionally than spunking loads of money on shite.

By all accounts the release clause was matched and the player agreed but tge eastern european club president refusedto pick up a pen.... embarrassing yeah maybe.... annoying definitely...

Can we still play really fucking well on the pitch and finishat the top table... you betcha...

 

[Hansern]

Its easy to forget that we've got 5 wins and 1 draw on our last 6 games.
A new signing would have been good but not crucial.

We've also got 6 first team players to return from injury. Did we recall Robbo?

Anyways, come on lads. We can finish as high as 2nd or 3rd imho!

 

[Mamma Mia]

Its easy to forget that we've got 5 wins and 1 draw on our last 6 games.
A new signing would have been good but not crucial.

We've also got 6 first team players to return from injury. Did we recall Robbo?

Anyways, come on lads. We can finish as high as 2nd or 3rd imho!

I would have liked this post if it wasn't for that last sentence.

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

Yeah we can still get a top 4 place but it will be Rodgers doing it despite the suits in charge.

What a massive opportunity we had in the window to show everyone that we mean buisness and to back Rodgers by giving him what he wants/needs and helping him as much as possible.

Tbh fuck the owners and fuck Ayre, i have never had a problem with the owners before but now its quite clear that they are not as serious as they have said in the past about getting us up there amongst the big time again.

The owners are basically hoping Rodgers pulls a rabbit out of the hat, hopefully he does because if he doesn't its bye bye Suarez and our biggest opportunity in years flushed down the shitter along with more future frustration.

 

[Hansern]

I would have liked this post if it wasn't for that last sentence.

Haha! Its possible mate, not saying it will happen obvs.
4th is the most realistic outcome though.

 

[mark1975]

Farky made a great post there.

And Rurik - how do you surmise we need an attacker more than a DM? We're the second highest goal scorers in the league, we've got SSS, Coutinho, Gerrard, Moses and Alberto to cover 3-4 attacking positions, but we've struggled for most of the season for consistency in midfield. We also have virtually no left back.

This sort of player and depth will be great when we're back in Europe, as it stands we missed out on a luxury signing who 'might' have took over an already well performing Sterling.

And Whirly - City admitted themselves they wanted the two players but weren't prepared to meet the valuation. No one can doubt our ambition on money spent, people just need to get realistic about us being on the tier below the billionaire owned clubs, tough shit, we've got more than adequate finances to compete, we just have to be careful. We're already punching well above our weight, continuity has served us well.

 

[red_maradona]

what the most worrying thing about this is that we can't seem to actually tie up deals for players we want. there is a pattern here, and it suggests something is seriously screwed up with the way we approach targets.

whilst we shouldn't forget our attack is very good, we should also realise that one injury/suspension of sturridge/suarez and we ARE screwed a la city/chelsea. we can't rely on moses, alberto, hendo or anyone else significant to step up and score. during the run in to May this could prove decisive.

 

[mark1975]

We've been told what the issue was with this deal, in most of the other deals we were gazumped by clubs with money and with European football on offer. Costa didn't want to move in the Summer to anyone, he said that himself, he wanted to develop and give Atletico another season. With Salah, Chelsea had sold Mata. With Willian we were head to head with Spurs, United and Chelsea (United fucked up too). It happens. Maybe we need to be cleverer in our identifying targets, that's a separate issue to what goes on in negotiations and every business should have a structure for costs and budgets, it's not Football Manager and that's not Ayre's fault.

 

[red_maradona]

We've been told what the issue was with this deal, in most of the other deals we were gazumped by clubs with money and with European football on offer. Costa didn't want to move in the Summer to anyone, he said that himself, he wanted to develop and give Atletico another season. With Salah, Chelsea had sold Mata. With Willian we were head to head with Spurs, United and Chelsea (United fucked up too). It happens. Maybe we need to be cleverer in our identifying targets, that's a separate issue to what goes on in negotiations and every business should have a structure for costs and budgets, it's not Football Manager and that's not Ayre's fault.

we definitely need to be cleverer, agree.

 

[Whirly]

Farky made a great post there.

And Rurik - how do you surmise we need an attacker more than a DM? We're the second highest goal scorers in the league, we've got SSS, Coutinho, Gerrard, Moses and Alberto to cover 3-4 attacking positions, but we've struggled for most of the season for consistency in midfield. We also have virtually no left back.
We only have 2 legit wingers in Sterling and Moses, with Moses being very inconsistent and Sterling still very young. Coutinho can be a makeshift winger, but that still leaves us around a body short. We have enough bodies in MF to have someone competent play the role, which is earmarked for Gerrard. We don't need a LB because Flanagan is fit again, and Enrique will be back soon.

This sort of player and depth will be great when we're back in Europe, as it stands we missed out on a luxury signing who 'might' have took over an already well performing Sterling.

We have no depth at winger. And it's not really a luxury signing if you don't spend the money elsewhere.

And Whirly - City admitted themselves they wanted the two players but weren't prepared to meet the valuation. No one can doubt our ambition on money spent, people just need to get realistic about us being on the tier below the billionaire owned clubs, tough shit, we've got more than adequate finances to compete, we just have to be careful. We're already punching well above our weight, continuity has served us well.

If you seriously saw that link and expected that deal to happen, you must be believing that United were going to sign Marchisio/Vidal/Pogba/Fabregas/Thiago/Ronaldo/Coentrao as well. That was always the absurd January pricing on the pair, and nobody was going to pay that fee, not even City. The fact of the matter is, if we want to compete head to head on a target with one of these oil clubs, we aren't going to win, they'll just go higher. This doesn't show that City have limited finances, it shows that they aren't idiots.

 

[mark1975]

Whirly, it's great going on about wingers and all, but our setup has never really been tailored for wingers anyway. The fullbacks have always provided the width and over four attacking positions, we're hardly short on numbers with Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho, Sterling, Gerrard, Moses, Alberto, etc. You can argue about the last two, but we brought them in and, for Alberto at least, need to be looking at easing him into the fold and giving him opportunities when we can.

So you're admitting that if we want to go head to head with one of the bigger clubs we'll lose out? Nice one, that more or less covers who we've missed out on.

 

[Mystic]

I wish we were playing today, wanted something to distract me from this disappointment. I still want to understand how they can get away with not accepting an offer equal to the buyout clause, that must be some sort of mistake by the press.

 

[Leo]

We've taken a massive gamble by not strengthening this window.
We've dropped the ball time and time again in negotiations and if we don't make top 4 this season the consequences for the club are going to be huge.
Our best player will be off for sure and even with the massive amount of money we will get for him I just can't trust our transfer committee to actually spend the money on top players given recent events.
Rodgers may have made a few dodgy signings but he deserved to be backed to add to a squad that is so weak that we had to bring a couple of kids with us to Stamford Bridge for one of our biggest games of the season.

The owners are basically in a no lose situation anyway.
They will basically get the same amount of money from selling Suarez as they would from the Champions League revenue.

We've gambled here by not strengthening the squad this window.
No team has ever won or done anything with a good first 11 and weak back up.
Lets just hope we get lucky with Sturridge staying fit and Suarez staying out of trouble.

 

[Whirly]

Whirly, it's great going on about wingers and all, but our setup has never really been tailored for wingers anyway.

I would say that's primarily because we've had no wingers in the squad. You think it's a coincidence that both of our targets this window were wingers? Or that we've looked so much better with Sterling playing? Rodgers setup at Swansea was very much based on wingers, where he had Nathan Dyer and Scott Sinclair. His setup has always been tailored for wingers.

The fullbacks have always provided the width and over four attacking positions, we're hardly short on numbers with Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho, Sterling, Gerrard, Moses, Alberto, etc.

My first issue is that you keep referring the Gerrard as an attacker while he clearly isn't one anymore. The other is that playing LAR and Coutinho both in the deeper roles together would be a horrible idea, it would need to be LAR and a winger on the opposite side. Neither Sturridge nor Suarez can be shifted off the striker spots in favor of the other, so that makes things a bit more difficult. LAR probably isn't trusted enough yet to play the role that Coutinho does for us, which means it's going to either be two wingers or Coutinho/winger.

The issue for the forseeable future is that the FB's AREN'T providing width, which is why Rodgers is opting for normal wingers. He had Dyer/Sinclair at Swansea, but here his FB's have been able to play a much more substantial role allowing for less reliance on his wingers to give us width. Now they aren't healthy/available/on form, so he's essentially making a contingency plan by getting enough traditional wingers to let him actually outfit a team.

You can argue about the last two, but we brought them in and, for Alberto at least, need to be looking at easing him into the fold and giving him opportunities when we can.

Absolutely, but LAR isn't ready to factor into the first team quite yet, and Moses is still our second choice winger. Take an injury to one of Moses/Sterling and suddenly we either need Ibe to be available as second choice, or Aspas factors in. Not terrible, but certainly not ideal.

So you're admitting that if we want to go head to head with one of the bigger clubs we'll lose out? Nice one, that more or less covers who we've missed out on.

I didn't say "bigger clubs" I said "oil clubs". Dortmund are a club we can compete with on fees, PSG, Chelsea and City are not.

 

[Rosco]

I wish we were playing today, wanted something to distract me from this disappointment. I still want to understand how they can get away with not accepting an offer equal to the buyout clause, that must be some sort of mistake by the press.

If the release fee was 15m and we said we'll give you 8m now and 7m next year, have we met the release fee ?

I don't know the answer to it, but that's my hunch as to what happened

 

[peterhague]

Exactly Farky. I would have been more upset spending 16m on a second choice player we didn't really need. Why do we always do this? It's like Noah's ark in 3's? Alberto, Aspas, Allen, Borini - the next purchases have to be slam dunk 25m plus.

This was a bullet dodged and it means we've more dough this summer.

The more I post the happier I am about this!

The guy is a potentially world class player. 'Bullet dodged', 'second choice', ffs.

Hand on heart, the last player we were in for I wanted to sign as badly was Dani Alves.

 

[tombrown]

I wish we were playing today, wanted something to distract me from this disappointment. I still want to understand how they can get away with not accepting an offer equal to the buyout clause, that must be some sort of mistake by the press.

Did you cut & paste the second sentence from Wengers august entry in his dear diary?

 

[Mystic]

If the release fee was 15m and we said we'll give you 8m now and 7m next year, have we met the release fee ?

I don't know the answer to it, but that's my hunch as to what happened

Yeh, thats probably not too far off.

 

[mark1975]

It depends on the conditions of the clause, some clauses allow you to negotiate or speak to the player, with the club still having a final say on whether the transfer goes through.

 

[Hansern]

Hopefully we'll get him this summer.

 

[Oncy]

Its done now. No point fucking moping about it.
Lets just go and qualify for the champions league now.