Exactly, He's avoiding past errors, of just gtting someone in. Anyhow, Wasn't Klavan judged to be great a few months back?
Klopp
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Exactly, He's avoiding past errors, of just gtting someone in. Anyhow, Wasn't Klavan judged to be great a few months back?
I wouldn't go that far, but he did have a few good performances, yes.
And a few really shit ones, obv.
I don't recall advocating signing another Klavan.
The point is, we are short on cover and there are other CBs that would improve the squad in that regard and be an improvement on Lovren in the short to medium term.
Signing VVD in January will be pretty useless if we are out of the running by that point.
And who is to say that Southampton's stance will have softened by then? The summer certainly played out as they said it would. Just because we hold an interest doesn't mean that we will sell.
So if we go back for him in January and he still doesn't move, we cool hanging about until the summer to try again, yeah?
No, but who do you think we could and should have got? Too many on here are suggesting we should have got someone in, without specifying who - probably, in some cases, because they know someone else will say the player is crap, and they would probably say the player is crap, too, soon after they've signed.
I think he's been right in the past to hold it rather than wasting dosh on squad players, but the past errors he's 'avoiding' weren't his errors - this is just the way he is.
But please do consider that we spent last year playing a past-his-prime DM in the CB position because we were short on cover. We've sold him now along with an unwanted CB and used none of that generated cash to bring in cover in a season where we could end up playing more games. Van Dijk was the number one target and that deal fell apart early in the window, we ended up with nothing but sales in that position by the time the window closed.
It's harder to suggest a CB we could have bought that would be worse than Klavan.
I agree. Ideally we need at least 3 good CB who can go straight into the first team. We only have Matip now, i would argue that both Lovren and Klavan are not good enough. That leaves us 1 short even if we get VVD in.
At the moment our CBs are weak. Even Matip is looking shaky on a few occasions. We need 1 more good CB with or without VVD. Klopp should have bought someone.
Get rid of Klavan and Lovren, we have seen enough to know they would not be consistently good enough for 38 games.
Name some names. Not impossible to get names.
I think some names have been mentioned. Rudiger, Sanchez etc. Lascelles looks an interesting option to me personally. If anything, they won't be any worse than Klavan, who is number 3 in our line of CB.
Sorry Macca, but I gave three names in a post a few above the one you responded to. I know it's easy to suggest a name and deals don't work out as easy as picking a name from a hat, but then plenty on were (and still are) holding out for us to buy a CB who patently wasn't for sale to us this summer at any price.
A few names that moved for half the cost (or less) of the quoted price of VVD:
Sanchez
Rudiger
Semedo
Maguire
Some rumoured to be available over the summer for around £20m:
De Vrij (question marks over his fitness)
Howedes
All, in my opinion, would offer more than Klavan with the top set representing potential for future growth (heck, who's to say they won't be better than VVD by 26!) I think they would all have had Lovren looking over his shoulder too.
Are we REALLY putting a list of central defenders together who "might" be better than Klavan (and Lovren)?
As if somehow, the tiny few who actually believe that VVD was the only viable option at CB require persuading otherwise?
What's the fucking point?
As if somehow, the tiny few who actually believe that VVD was the only viable option at CB require persuading otherwise?
What's the fucking point?
It's always going to descend into this discussion, because this is the main bug bear of the transfer window - we missed out on a key target.
It is clear that there are differing opinions on it but there is too much eagerness to try and force people into two pigeon holes. The opinions on this topic are far more varied than just 'sign any CB' and 'only VVD will do'.
It is clear that there are differing opinions on it but there is too much eagerness to try and force people into two pigeon holes. The opinions on this topic are far more varied than just 'sign any CB' and 'only VVD will do'.
You can't expect fans to have the same knowledge of world football to be able to suggest other defenders who were available and financially viable whilst also being better than what we currently have. That's the scouting departments job and then it's up to Klopp and the rest of the management team and owners to decide which ones are worth pursuing. For VVD to have been the only one on the list is ridiculous and quite unlikely, it's far more likely that others were suggested and then rejected for varying reasons.
I can fully understand if there none of the other players fitted what was required as well as VVD but that doesn't mean there wasn't plenty better than Lovren and Klavan as they have failed us many times. Surely if we couldn't get the direct replacement for Lovren this summer (as it seems that VVD was that player) then why did that stop us getting Klavans replacement in. If we can get better squad players that the squad players we already have then that would improve us overall.
It certainly didn't stop us getting Chamberlain in when it's hard to imagine a role for him when everyone is fit as surely Lallana, Coutinho and eventually Keita will be ahead of him. Personally i just don't think we put enough emphasis on defending and that's reflected in the purchases and sales we've done as well as the lack of cohesion within the defence.
I can fully understand if there none of the other players fitted what was required as well as VVD but that doesn't mean there wasn't plenty better than Lovren and Klavan as they have failed us many times. Surely if we couldn't get the direct replacement for Lovren this summer (as it seems that VVD was that player) then why did that stop us getting Klavans replacement in. If we can get better squad players that the squad players we already have then that would improve us overall.
It certainly didn't stop us getting Chamberlain in when it's hard to imagine a role for him when everyone is fit as surely Lallana, Coutinho and eventually Keita will be ahead of him. Personally i just don't think we put enough emphasis on defending and that's reflected in the purchases and sales we've done as well as the lack of cohesion within the defence.
Yup. At the rate we are resting/rotating players, Klavan looks like he will get at least 15-20 games till Jan. That's a frightening thought.
Yes, but this is all a bit Kantian. We seem to know that there were players available that we didn't know were available, that would have improved the defence in ways that were not quite sure about. It's an easy game to play but it's deeply disingenuous. In fact the discussion is sadly reminiscent of that Little Britain character in the wheelchair who 'wanted that one' only to then announce once he'd got it home:'Don't like it'
Forget Klavan if Lucas was still here i would argue for a case for him replacing Lovren.
Mr Russell Brown has been so shit.
I'd probably agree with you. But he's not here and we have what we have and we have to get on with it.
If there is even a hint of a suggestion that only one CB in world football would improve the quality of this squad, then we have to wonder why we are not totally the mutt's nuts already.
Even without access to all the video analytics, scouting reports, reams of video footage etc. it is clear, that there must be other players out there who would improve the defence, otherwise we'd have been part of a very long queue for VVD who must be a once in a generation talent.
No, even Klopp has said that wouldn't be enough:
"If these problems would have been sorted with one player, you can imagine we'd put all our money in and say 'let's do this'."
He's acknowledged that simply adding one player isn't the answer, so he's clearly investigating if adding no players might work.
It's a bold strategy, fingers crossed!
At the end of the day, Klopp brought the pressure on himself by not signing a CB in the summer. With every game that we leak goals, the same questions will be asked of him and with that, more pressure.
Our current CBs would not be blind to the news and would be affected as well. That probably part explains the panicky clearances and amateur mistakes when under no physical pressure because they already feel mentally pressured.
Klopp's claims that our defensive woes cannot be fixed just by buying new players is also wearing abit thin. If anything, buying a CB will buy him some time, and some breathing space as the press and even thr fans will feel the new CB will need some time to bedding in.
At the moment the defence is 100% his problem and he is deservedly getting all the bad press that's coming to him.
Our current CBs would not be blind to the news and would be affected as well. That probably part explains the panicky clearances and amateur mistakes when under no physical pressure because they already feel mentally pressured.
Klopp's claims that our defensive woes cannot be fixed just by buying new players is also wearing abit thin. If anything, buying a CB will buy him some time, and some breathing space as the press and even thr fans will feel the new CB will need some time to bedding in.
At the moment the defence is 100% his problem and he is deservedly getting all the bad press that's coming to him.
It's probably fortunate that it's only really at CB that Klopp seems to have such dauntingly high standards that only one player was deemed worthy, otherwise the likes of Oxlade-Chamberlain and Robertson would have had no chance.
Unless they're the best two players in their positions too. In which case, we're very lucky to have them.
To be fair, the constant rotation can't be helping either. It's Matip + [take your pick] = entire back five right now. Even the 'Mignolet is number one in the leauge' line only lasted as long as the Arsenal game. The defence, whether good enough or not (not) are never going to settle with all the chopping and changing.
I've not seen today's press conference, but I'm fairly sure I saw a tweeted update earlier with a quote from Klopp along the lines of 'fresh minds and fresh bodies' for Burnley - so more of the same rotation is in order then! Four games in, 10 defensive changes.
This is interesting...perhaps the best arguments we have had in SixCM's history. I think what we can hope for now is that this pressure and constant observance of our defence by supporters and pundits alike will have a good effect on the players and make them think more about their defensive duties. I mean it kind of worked for Chelsea last season ... obviously with big changes by the manager in having 3 at the back. We cannot expect same from Klopp but the pressure cooker is on full so let us hope this gets sorted with those we currently have. Its a matter of concentration....isn't it ?
He did indeed. But as JJ noted, there was no easy choice here. He could have brought in a 'filler' until January, or wait until January for his first choice. After too many second, third, fourth and never, ever, choices have been brought in during recent seasons, I'm prepared to be patient. Some aren't. It's down to opinions, it's just sad one or two are aiming today for personalised and sustained abuse.
I didn't propose any players i suggested that was the the job of the scouts and Klopp which is factually the case. If you think they didn't have alternatives to VVD but chose not to pursue them then maybe you're being somewhat naive.
If a player has been given multiple chances to stake a place in the team but continually lets you down and shows no signs of improvement or consistency and the fans lose faith in them then that's quite dissimilar from Andy from little Britain who decides on a whim to reject various things. If Lovren , Klavan or even Matip cannot adapt to Klopps system of defending then either the players aren't good enough , the coaching isn't good enough or it's a combination of the two. I hope it's the players as otherwise it's a problem that won't be solved under Klopp whomever he plays.
I'm sure they had alternatives. I'm also sure that VVD was by a very long way THE player Klopp wanted to come, he still wants to come, Klopp still believes he can get him and he's determined to get him. I'll judge him on what happens with that. But I'm not having this endless argumentative pivoting between 'we know as much as managers do' and 'we know nothing, we're just humble fans' routine that some are doing. It's easy and lazy and it has no constructive purpose.
Up to the Club/scouts who's job it is to scout around Europe and beyond and find a gem or two. That's literally their job.
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