Klopp

[Judge Jules]

In his first couple of seasons it was fair to middling. Klopp's third season (significantly perhaps) was the one in which he and Dortmund really hit their stride, they won the title and that season (and during the next three, when they won another title and were runners-up twice) their Goals Against record was excellent, though things then went stale in what turned out to be his final season with them.

 

[Glen C]

But yet we're a far better team, beating the big teams, and qualifying for the CL. Let's give him patience.

How was his defensive record during the good times at Dortmund? Anyone?

We scraped 4th because we had no european distraction. We're a better ATTACKING team for sure, but a better team overall is debatable.

 

[Judge Jules]

It really isn't. There were some good times along the way with Rodgers but his regime had well and truly unravelled by the time he left.

 

[manwithnoname]

'Challenging for the title until January'

Hahahahahaha.

 

[Frogfish]

How long does a damn good manager need to coach his team how to defend from set pieces? He doesn't need billions for that.

Well that depends on the quality of the defenders doesn't it. The team needed a near total overhaul, despite Klopp's confidence building comments re. current players we can see that's what he's doing, and whilst I don't give Klopp, or the scouting team, a full pass I'm prepared to give them time. Which is unlike many on here who, if the defensive issues had been addressed they would be criticising the attack or the midfield (as they are anyway) or the kitchen staff.

This forum is tiring at times. No quarter is given. Personally I'm loving our attacking football and if we can eventually (by next Summer) get the players in for the defence that we require then, with Naby Keita arriving (wishful thinking says maybe January ?), we're going to have a cracking team. In the meantime I too will berate the defence, but not so much the manager.

 

[Frogfish]

He's a sound guy and the footy is ace to watch, but the defence is ridiculous. It wouldn't be all that worrying if he admitted it, but not buying anyone and insisting it's ok is pathologically odd.

Still, it's fun going the match with him in charge.

I can only assume it's man management. You have to support what you have until you bring in better.

 

[davud graham]

Klopp is getting quite a bit of criticism mainly for the defensive side of our team but I haven't seen or heard hardly any fans online or at the match calling for his head. There is a difference between wanting him to do better and wanting him sacked.
Plenty of things have gone right since he joined us in terms of the quality attacking play , results against other big teams and promoting youth players but lets no forget that there have been plenty of poor perfomances as well as a real stubborness not to add quality squad players that doesn't help us.
Since he's been in charge we've lost 2 cup finals and in both our performances have been average at best, we got beat home and away by Southampton in the league cup semi finals and the FA Cup has been treated with all the importance of pre season friendlies. We've now turned into a club that expects the fans to be grateful that we finished 4th in the league to gain champions league football. At christmas last year not many people would have thought we'd sink down to 4th from where we were but in the end we only just scraped into 4th and a lot of that was because we didn't strengthen in January.
I''m not all comfortable with settling for second best and treating it like a victory so pardon me if i'm not impressed yet. Rodgers thrashed plenty of teams in the nearly year but I wasn't arsed when he was sacked as he didn't win anything and the defence was unreliable. I do think that Klopp has got more about him than Rodgers as a manager but he's still got to prove it on the pitch.

 

[Frogfish]

This is the crux of it for me, he came with an enormous reputation, possibly as even the worlds most coveted coach, certainly one of them at any rate. His performance here and his reputation are simply not corresponding

Well that depends on the timeframe you are willing to give them. Without billions from dodgy sources I doubt there is another manager in the world that could take us from struggling to make Top 6 to title challengers in less time than I believe it will take Klopp. Others could do it in similar timeframes I'm sure but would they even consider LFC and limited budgets.

 

[Frogfish]

But yet we're a far better team, beating the big teams, and qualifying for the CL. Let's give him patience.

How was his defensive record during the good times at Dortmund? Anyone?

Only 22 and 25 goals conceded in his two title wins with Dortmund.

 

[moron]

In his first couple of seasons it was fair to middling. Klopp's third season (significantly perhaps) was the one in which he and Dortmund really hit their stride, they won the title and that season (and during the next three, when they won another title and were runners-up twice) their Goals Against record was excellent, though things then went stale in what turned out to be his final season with them.

Judge thanks for that information - think I asked for it on the first page so we can get some perspective about how he did with the defense for Dortmund. What it clearly shows is that he does know what the fuck to do with it and organise it. I also watched the interview post match and the questions regarding the defense - which I thought he answered quite well without a proper review. Like yesterday on CL highlights - they pointed out it is a matter of concentration - and we know they (that same group of players) can defend because when we had to last season in those final games we fucking well did shut up shop. For those that say - it was not convincing - well to you guys I say - when has it ever been convincing for any team ? - you play against any team if you do defend and they are attacking there will always be close decisions. On the evidence of last seasons last few games - what does one think ?

So I think we need to be patient - and under Klopp the one thing that is also consistent is getting the right reaction from the players in the next game. It's infuriating - because we attack so well - and its great to watch; and unfortunately it leaves us open and the players are not switching their thinking to defensive mode quick enough. Also I am still upset with that 5-0 loss to City - I mean we were so so much better than them when Mane was one the pitch, and even after he got sent off - you wanted them to make it hard for city but none of them appeared interested in the game. It was as if it was a given that they should just give up - that is not the right attitude and on this I am sure that it is on a perverse scale something Klopp has bought to the club which is to go out and fucking win every game - it seems to be win or nothing with this Liverpool team - and sometimes they need to be reminded that you need to take a step back and think !!!

What I hope for - and I have been hoping for this all last season - is that a team turns up at Anfield and every goal-scoring chance we create goes in. There is a part of me that thinks at some stage under Klopp we are going to win 10-0 against someone - don't know how - but I think it will happen.

 

[beejay]

Klopp is fucking ace. Genius to get us into the Champions League and the clue to our problem is the lack of ambition from the club in securing his targets in the summer.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[localny]

'Challenging for the title until January'

Hahahahahaha.

you rightly laugh amigo, but let's face it, we rarely ever look like title contenders in the modern era for any part of the season, bar 2009, 2003-14, and last year for a few months. I'll take it as progress for a manager who was in his first full season, and this season we're seen as contenders, even with defensive flaws.

 

[localny]

He's danmed if he buys less than top quality players (falling into the old Liverpool pattern). He's damned if he doesn't buy them.

He's damned for getting us to two finals in a fecking half season for us, and not winning them. Jesus wept, he got us there. What an improvement.

He's got people wanting to sign for Liverpool. I don't know how to break it to you, but let's face it, Liverpool isn't usually the destination of choice for most top talent. You're taking this completely for granted.

He gets us into the top four, but gets criticized because well, it just came to close at the end. Meanwhile UNITED and Arsenal - our biggest rivals over the past 30 years didn't even make the top 4. But you want to find fault with that.

I mean jesus wept are you all a bunch of entitled milllenials or something? Go easy on the expectations. You're right to criticize the defense, but have a little faith for now. He's worked miracles thus far, but FC Roma wasn't built in a day, or 3.

 

[moron]

He's danmed if he buys less than top quality players (falling into the old Liverpool pattern). He's damned if he doesn't buy them.

He's damned for getting us to two finals in a fecking half season for us, and not winning them. Jesus wept, he got us there. What an improvement.

He's got people wanting to sign for Liverpool. I don't know how to break it to you, but let's face it, Liverpool isn't usually the destination of choice for most top talent. You're taking this completely for granted.

He gets us into the top four, but gets criticized because well, it just came to close at the end. Meanwhile UNITED and Arsenal - our biggest rivals over the past 30 years didn't even make the top 4. But you want to find fault with that.

I mean jesus wept are you all a bunch of entitled milllenials or something? Go easy on the expectations. You're right to criticize the defense, but have a little faith for now. He's worked miracles thus far, but FC Roma wasn't built in a day, or 3.

I don't think anyone is saying too much that Klopp should go but like all the pundits out there - EVERYONE is asking why the FUCK is that defense of ours a fucking shambles ? - everyone loves Klopp for precisely the things you have mentioned - no one understands why the defense issues were not addressed - if we had spent 40M on a defender rather than the OX - then I think most of us believe we could not have done worse than some of our existing dull heads at the back. We are just asking the question - does our manager see this issue like EVERYONE else ? - its not always clear in the interviews. Even saw one youtube discussion where they are saying Klopp's team lack the cultural sophistication of a team developed by the other top managers, then another where even Didi is not seeing an improvement - and saying how much harder it is to compete in the PL than in Germany and pretty much how he should have addressed the defense as the main priority.

@localny - if you have an issue with that then I can only think you are either Klavan/Lovren/Matip in disguise.

 

[ibromurph]

I'm with you on some things, but there's zero rational reason to say the above. Also, my point is that even if the defense was optimized, we'd still leak far more goals than other systems of play. I'm fine with that point, but we really need some exceptionally talented individual defenders and better midfield balance.

I think the balance you're talking about comes from having a ball playing, sitting defensive midfielder (i.e. a Hamann type). Preferably one who is tall and can help at set pieces too.

The CBs are left exposed far too many times and we all know they're not great players in their own right.

But it's like you say, the system and high energy style we play means we will always concede goals. But it also means we will always create chances, and had Firmino scored that penalty yesterday, I could imagine we would have run out 4/5-1 victors.

A top GK, CB and DM (positions traditionally that don't cost the earth) and I think we will be challenging for all competitions.

But again, like you say, it relies on the patience of the fans (not just to insist we spend for the sake of spending). Klopp might actually target 4th place again, knowing once he assembles the pieces (Van Dijk, Keita, keep Coutinho, get in a DM next summer), we will go from competing for 4th place to competing for 1st. Instead of wasting money and buying a 2nd/3rd choice and still competing for the same 4th position this year (as that player wouldn't be a dramatic improvement).

 

[keniget]

He's danmed if he buys less than top quality players (falling into the old Liverpool pattern). He's damned if he doesn't buy them.

I'm more than slightly baffled by this.

I've not seen anyone clamouring for "less than top quality" players.

Have you?

 

[Molbystwin]

He's danmed if he buys less than top quality players (falling into the old Liverpool pattern). He's damned if he doesn't buy them.

He's damned for getting us to two finals in a fecking half season for us, and not winning them. Jesus wept, he got us there. What an improvement.

He's got people wanting to sign for Liverpool. I don't know how to break it to you, but let's face it, Liverpool isn't usually the destination of choice for most top talent. You're taking this completely for granted.

He gets us into the top four, but gets criticized because well, it just came to close at the end. Meanwhile UNITED and Arsenal - our biggest rivals over the past 30 years didn't even make the top 4. But you want to find fault with that.

I mean jesus wept are you all a bunch of entitled milllenials or something? Go easy on the expectations. You're right to criticize the defense, but have a little faith for now. He's worked miracles thus far, but FC Roma wasn't built in a day, or 3.

BRILLIANT POST...

 

[Gary25]

You'd like to think that shipping 7 goals in the last few days would have them working on that side of things on the training ground, but I get the feeling they're on penalty practice, as Klopp will have identified that weakness from last night.

I'm not anti Klopp at all, I think he's ace, but he's clearly fucking deranged

It's perplexing though (our defensive probs) because it's not like we're getting ripped to shreds and team's are cutting through us at will in games with us conceding that way - most of the time it's basic, clumsy errors. Begs the question is all this talk of tactics and systems and all that lark a load of shite...and maybe a few boss centre backs and a defensive minded centre mid is "just" what we need.

 

[juniormember]

I'm more than slightly baffled by this.

I've not seen anyone clamouring for "less than top quality" players.

Have you?

Lots of people on here are saying he should have strengthened the squad even though they may not have been top targets for Klopp.
So players Klopp would consider less than top quality for his team.
Some of us actually like Klopp's long term planning, as much as it would have been great to sort some players out for the short term.
I'm baffled by people (not you) actually saying that Klopp's not very good in this thread. It's unbelievable.

 

[Molbystwin]

I think the balance you're talking about comes from having a ball playing, sitting defensive midfielder (i.e. a Hamann type). Preferably one who is tall and can help at set pieces too.

The CBs are left exposed far too many times and we all know they're not great players in their own right.

But it's like you say, the system and high energy style we play means we will always concede goals. But it also means we will always create chances, and had Firmino scored that penalty yesterday, I could imagine we would have run out 4/5-1 victors.

A top GK, CB and DM (positions traditionally that don't cost the earth) and I think we will be challenging for all competitions.

But again, like you say, it relies on the patience of the fans (not just to insist we spend for the sake of spending). Klopp might actually target 4th place again, knowing once he assembles the pieces (Van Dijk, Keita, keep Coutinho, get in a DM next summer), we will go from competing for 4th place to competing for 1st. Instead of wasting money and buying a 2nd/3rd choice and still competing for the same 4th position this year (as that player wouldn't be a dramatic improvement).

Another brilliant post.

Laughing at challenging at Christmas... really??... what the fuck... I don't know about you but I wasn't laughing I was loving it... but then Losing 2 or 3 key players through injury for fucking months on end and then 2 more for the January when we had 11 games might have had an effect also.

We were just "settling for being fourth" apparently....

Fuck a duck.

Yes the defence could be better and yes we should have bought another CB but we have strengthened well generally and we are a considerably better team to watch than at any time since we lost our last superstar player. Players have shown that they do want to play for us and the reason for that is because we have a boss manager. I like the fact he is bringing on the young players also...

Shittest, whingiest, ( I think I just made that word up (TM)) dizziest thread in the history of threads.... right now we are a whopping three points off the top of the table and if it were not for a shitty linesman we would only be 1 point off, that's insurmountable surely... we should give up now...

calm the fuck down and cheer up.... it's only a game...

 

[peekay]

'Challenging for the title until January'

Hahahahahaha.

That does ridiculous but to be fair we have only managed that 3 times in the last 25 years.

 

[localny]

That does ridiculous but to be fair we have only managed that 3 times in the last 25 years.

pre-fecking-cisely

 

[Holle]

It doesn't matter who manages us. As like long as the owners don't decide to invest we don't stand a chance.

Does anybody really believe that Klopp wouldn't have bought a quality defender if he'd been given the money?

Get a grip FFS.

 

[Hyena]

It doesn't matter who manages us. As like long as the owners don't decide to invest we don't stand a chance.

Does anybody really believe that Klopp wouldn't have bought a quality defender if he'd been given the money?

Get a grip FFS.

He spent 35 million on AOfuckingC. We have the money.

 

[keniget]

Lots of people on here are saying he should have strengthened the squad even though they may not have been top targets for Klopp.
So players Klopp would consider less than top quality for his team.
Some of us actually like Klopp's long term planning, as much as it would have been great to sort some players out for the short term.
I'm baffled by people (not you) actually saying that Klopp's not very good in this thread. It's unbelievable.

I don't think anyone is really against the idea of long term planning, quite the opposite.

The point of contention is that VDV was the only player good enough for us to sign.

It might be that Klopp had a list of 5 players he'd have been quite happy to sign and there are reasons as to why things went down as they did, we don't know.

From the outside looking in though it does seem as though VDV who was coming back off a bad injury was the only long term option, which seems strange... particularly when you consider the importance of doing well this season.

We spent 40M on Ox which seems a luxury purchase right now so it's not necessarily a question of money.

It's important to play the long game but it's also important to ensure you don't drop the ball in the short term whilst that plays out and for us that means making CL, doing well enough to rebuild our reputation and trying to keep our better players.

 

[mom]

Yep. Someone posted a telling fact the other day about Klopp only having spent just over £4 mill on defenders since he's been here. Hard not to sit up and take notice of that. Especially considering his early comments about the defence being essential etc

 

[KopRed]

Our midfield has been a problem for the past 2 games. It's not surprising we bought a midfielder and chased after one for the entire off season. Perhaps our midfield has been the problem all along. They are just not providing enough cover or energy in front of the defence.

The midfield was the problem in the 5-0 loss, 10 men or not, they sliced us up like butter, none of our midfielders could keep the ball for more than 3 passes. Against Sevilla the 2nd goal was on the gaping hole we left to their attacker in midfield.

At least Keita should on paper be a huge improvement on Can, Hendo and Gini, who are looking like absolute mucks for the past 2 games.

 

[juniormember]

I don't think anyone is really against the idea of long term planning, quite the opposite.

The point of contention is that VDV was the only player good enough for us to sign.

It might be that Klopp had a list of 5 players he'd have been quite happy to sign and there are reasons as to why things went down as they did, we don't know.

From the outside looking in though it does seem as though VDV who was coming back off a bad injury was the only long term option, which seems strange... particularly when you consider the importance of doing well this season.

We spent 40M on Ox which seems a luxury purchase right now so it's not necessarily a question of money.

It's important to play the long game but it's also important to ensure you don't drop the ball in the short term whilst that plays out and for us that means making CL, doing well enough to rebuild our reputation and trying to keep our better players.

Your last sentence, to me, is precisely what Klopp's been doing.

 

[Frogfish]

It doesn't matter who manages us. As like long as the owners don't decide to invest we don't stand a chance.

Does anybody really believe that Klopp wouldn't have bought a quality defender if he'd been given the money?

Get a grip FFS.

Does anyone seriously believe that we wouldn't have bought VVD ? I'm amazed it's even contemplated as a possibility, more conspiracy theories.

 

[manwithnoname]

It doesn't matter who manages us. As like long as the owners don't decide to invest we don't stand a chance.

Does anybody really believe that Klopp wouldn't have bought a quality defender if he'd been given the money?

Get a grip FFS.

He was given money. He spent £75m on Chamberlain and Salah. He spent £12m on Robertson. He spent £55m on Keita.
He would have spent £60m on VVD, or whatever, because we obviously did try to buy him, and Klopp obviously did want a CB.

The issue isn't just money - although it's still a massive factor - but he had plenty enough to improve that shit defence, and instead decided it was Van Dijk or NOBODY.

That is what people are annoyed about (and not buying a fucking decent keeper ever)