Kenny-O-Meter Approval Rating..
- Thread starter The Nomad
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Status
Thanks Y1.
[size=14pt]Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish feels the heat as signings fall flat with Bolton defeat the latest blow[/size]
By Chris Bascombe, Reebok Stadium11:00PM GMT 22 Jan 2012Comments
Little did we know the full extent of the club’s remorse: in the event, the Reebok Stadium was the backdrop to the most sorry performance of Kenny Dalglish’s second reign in charge as Liverpool were beaten 3-1 by Bolton Wanderers.
John W Henry and Tom Werner plan to fly into Merseyside on Monday, expecting to see their club progress to their first major final in five years. A glance at the Premier League table suggests Carling Cup progress will do little more than apply a sticking plaster to yet another sickly campaign.
When Dalglish returned as Liverpool manager, he endangered the infallibility he enjoyed as a club ambassador. For many of his brethren, querying his judgment is still akin to questioning the celibacy of the Pope. Such historical, unconditional devotion will be tested if performances and signings continue to fail to match expectations. There’s no Hicks, no Gillett, no Parry, no Purslow, no Benitez and no Hodgson to blame any more, so for the time being alternative non-provocative, populist targets are being located.
The most expensive Liverpool players fit the bill, although if the club continues to play like this the politically vulnerable director of football, Damien Comolli, will be well advised to stock up on a ready supply of tin hats.
Dalglish has accumulated over three decades of credit at Anfield, so it will take longer than 12 months for his reign to be subject to the same scrutiny within Merseyside’s boundaries as it necessitates beyond it.
His break with tradition with a full-frontal rebuke of his players in the aftermath of the 3-1 defeat surprised many, but there was a flaw in his argument.
He bought at least six of those players, and in some cases the dip into the abyss of abominable badness was not an especially severe drop. For many of them, it was not a lengthy journey from being plain mediocre to wretchedly appalling.
Luis Suárez, absent for three more games, stands alone as the unqualified success of Liverpool’s recent investment. Anyone who thinks he’ll hang around for more than another 18 months if Liverpool are not back in the Champions League has learned nothing from the final chapters of Fernando Torres’s Anfield story.
Liverpool’s scorer and sole contributor here, Craig Bellamy, also underlined why of all last summer’s purchases he was the one that made most sense.
Herein lies another irony. Liverpool have been sucked into a world where players are judged on flip charts, statistical data and youthfulness. Bellamy does not fit the profile of the Moneyballderdash cult Liverpool have championed.
He is 32, he cost no transfer fee and he will be worth nothing once his contract is up. But try telling anyone on The Kop those in their early 20s purchased for in excess of £20 million represent forward thinking while the pursuit of ageing, experienced, proven talent is a retrograde step.
Liverpool’s transfer outlay has been seduced and sabotaged by the most dangerous word in football: ‘potential’. Andy Carroll, Jordan Henderson, Charlie Adam and Stewart Downing were signed at huge cost not because of anything extraordinary they had ever done, but for what they might eventually do. And they are not doing it.
Carroll is the most striking case of all, and the most imaginative work of fiction to have been written in Liverpool recently must surely be the scouting report valuing him at £35 million.
Various theories have now been proposed as to why he has been so abysmal, but the most simple is surely the most convincing: he is not a particularly good footballer. There is nothing there: no first touch, no burst of pace, no physical presence. Milk turns quicker than Carroll.
The contrast with David Ngog was devastating. Ngog, a former emergency Liverpool striker of limited means, was sold to Bolton for £4 million last summer. As a lone striker, he was everything Carroll was not, his delicate flick in the build up to the excellent Mark Davies’s fourth-minute goal setting the tone for a comfortable evening for Owen Coyle’s side.
Nigel Reo-Coker and Gretar Steinsson made Bellamy’s first-half strike irrelevant and lifted Bolton out of the bottom three.
Coyle believes the money invested from the sale of Gary Cahill will enable Bolton to emerge from the transfer window stronger. Exactly a year ago, Liverpool argued the same when they re-invested the Torres fee.
They’ve collected six more points this season than this time a year ago. Get your sabermetric calculator around that, Mr Henry.
If everyone at Anfield believes this is a consequence of a single poor display at the Reebok Stadium, you can add lack of self-awareness to Liverpool’s mounting Premier League problems.
----------------------------
Ouch.
[size=14pt]Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish feels the heat as signings fall flat with Bolton defeat the latest blow[/size]
By Chris Bascombe, Reebok Stadium11:00PM GMT 22 Jan 2012Comments
Little did we know the full extent of the club’s remorse: in the event, the Reebok Stadium was the backdrop to the most sorry performance of Kenny Dalglish’s second reign in charge as Liverpool were beaten 3-1 by Bolton Wanderers.
John W Henry and Tom Werner plan to fly into Merseyside on Monday, expecting to see their club progress to their first major final in five years. A glance at the Premier League table suggests Carling Cup progress will do little more than apply a sticking plaster to yet another sickly campaign.
When Dalglish returned as Liverpool manager, he endangered the infallibility he enjoyed as a club ambassador. For many of his brethren, querying his judgment is still akin to questioning the celibacy of the Pope. Such historical, unconditional devotion will be tested if performances and signings continue to fail to match expectations. There’s no Hicks, no Gillett, no Parry, no Purslow, no Benitez and no Hodgson to blame any more, so for the time being alternative non-provocative, populist targets are being located.
The most expensive Liverpool players fit the bill, although if the club continues to play like this the politically vulnerable director of football, Damien Comolli, will be well advised to stock up on a ready supply of tin hats.
Dalglish has accumulated over three decades of credit at Anfield, so it will take longer than 12 months for his reign to be subject to the same scrutiny within Merseyside’s boundaries as it necessitates beyond it.
His break with tradition with a full-frontal rebuke of his players in the aftermath of the 3-1 defeat surprised many, but there was a flaw in his argument.
He bought at least six of those players, and in some cases the dip into the abyss of abominable badness was not an especially severe drop. For many of them, it was not a lengthy journey from being plain mediocre to wretchedly appalling.
Luis Suárez, absent for three more games, stands alone as the unqualified success of Liverpool’s recent investment. Anyone who thinks he’ll hang around for more than another 18 months if Liverpool are not back in the Champions League has learned nothing from the final chapters of Fernando Torres’s Anfield story.
Liverpool’s scorer and sole contributor here, Craig Bellamy, also underlined why of all last summer’s purchases he was the one that made most sense.
Herein lies another irony. Liverpool have been sucked into a world where players are judged on flip charts, statistical data and youthfulness. Bellamy does not fit the profile of the Moneyballderdash cult Liverpool have championed.
He is 32, he cost no transfer fee and he will be worth nothing once his contract is up. But try telling anyone on The Kop those in their early 20s purchased for in excess of £20 million represent forward thinking while the pursuit of ageing, experienced, proven talent is a retrograde step.
Liverpool’s transfer outlay has been seduced and sabotaged by the most dangerous word in football: ‘potential’. Andy Carroll, Jordan Henderson, Charlie Adam and Stewart Downing were signed at huge cost not because of anything extraordinary they had ever done, but for what they might eventually do. And they are not doing it.
Carroll is the most striking case of all, and the most imaginative work of fiction to have been written in Liverpool recently must surely be the scouting report valuing him at £35 million.
Various theories have now been proposed as to why he has been so abysmal, but the most simple is surely the most convincing: he is not a particularly good footballer. There is nothing there: no first touch, no burst of pace, no physical presence. Milk turns quicker than Carroll.
The contrast with David Ngog was devastating. Ngog, a former emergency Liverpool striker of limited means, was sold to Bolton for £4 million last summer. As a lone striker, he was everything Carroll was not, his delicate flick in the build up to the excellent Mark Davies’s fourth-minute goal setting the tone for a comfortable evening for Owen Coyle’s side.
Nigel Reo-Coker and Gretar Steinsson made Bellamy’s first-half strike irrelevant and lifted Bolton out of the bottom three.
Coyle believes the money invested from the sale of Gary Cahill will enable Bolton to emerge from the transfer window stronger. Exactly a year ago, Liverpool argued the same when they re-invested the Torres fee.
They’ve collected six more points this season than this time a year ago. Get your sabermetric calculator around that, Mr Henry.
If everyone at Anfield believes this is a consequence of a single poor display at the Reebok Stadium, you can add lack of self-awareness to Liverpool’s mounting Premier League problems.
----------------------------
Ouch.
Whether or not some of it is right, you'd think he'd mention Enrique.
S
Squiggles
Guest
Downing clearly wasn't signed on potential.
Sadly there is not much else to argue against.
Sadly there is not much else to argue against.
R
RedZeppelin
Guest
That's exactly what drove me mad with all our summer signings and Carroll ....there were massive question marks over all of them and all had something to prove . When you pay the fees we did you should expect certainties and not essentially gamble as much as we did . So far only Enrique has dispelled the concerns over him . Oh and henderson if you believe most people here .
And i just don't get that , we're a bunch of fuckwit fans but if we had such concerns and so far are proven correct to have had them , then what the fuck did the club see or think was going to happen ? And what are they doing to improve things ? . I don't see any signs that we are working on anything ... trying new tactics , playing players together consistently , changing the individual player etc etc ...in fact we're doing the opposite , carroll doesn't play , the tactics were changed back to those of last season , Henderson is being played out of position , downing too according to Kenny . So again what's the fucking plan ?
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=48383.msg1468957#msg1468957 date=1327283090]
That's exactly what drove me mad with all our summer signings and Carroll ....there were massive question marks over all of them and all had something to prove . When you pay the fees we did you should expect certainties and not essentially gamble as much as we did . So far only Enrique has dispelled the concerns over him . Oh and henderson if you believe most people here .
And i just don't get that , we're a bunch of fuckwit fans but if we had such concerns and so far are proven correct to have had them , then what the fuck did the club see or think was going to happen ? And what are they doing to improve things ? . I don't see any signs that we are working on anything ... trying new tactics , playing players together consistently , changing the individual player etc etc ...in fact we're doing the opposite , carroll doesn't play , the tactics were changed back to those of last season , Henderson is being played out of position , downing too according to Kenny . So again what's the fucking plan ?
[/quote]
So far Kenny has been listening to Baldrick.
That's exactly what drove me mad with all our summer signings and Carroll ....there were massive question marks over all of them and all had something to prove . When you pay the fees we did you should expect certainties and not essentially gamble as much as we did . So far only Enrique has dispelled the concerns over him . Oh and henderson if you believe most people here .
And i just don't get that , we're a bunch of fuckwit fans but if we had such concerns and so far are proven correct to have had them , then what the fuck did the club see or think was going to happen ? And what are they doing to improve things ? . I don't see any signs that we are working on anything ... trying new tactics , playing players together consistently , changing the individual player etc etc ...in fact we're doing the opposite , carroll doesn't play , the tactics were changed back to those of last season , Henderson is being played out of position , downing too according to Kenny . So again what's the fucking plan ?
[/quote]
So far Kenny has been listening to Baldrick.
I don't think our purchasing decisions have a lot to do with moneyball. I thought moneyball was about using superior information to find undervalued players. I don't think there are any English players that anyone has heard anything about that are undervalued. Unless they are old and brought in for the short term.
But, without the crap about flip charts youthfulness and moneyball, I'd say there's nothing to argue with there.
But, without the crap about flip charts youthfulness and moneyball, I'd say there's nothing to argue with there.
R
RedZeppelin
Guest
well i really hope the club / Kenny can sort out alot of the issues they have , cut out wasting money on shite players etc and take us where we want to be . because let's face it , how good would it be to win under Kenny ...last night showed it , it would mean so much more than just under any old manager .
I want to see more dodgy pics like these ....
and more than anything , this with red and white ribbons
I want to see more dodgy pics like these ....
and more than anything , this with red and white ribbons
Dalglish has improved our League position from when he took over, improved the depth of the squad and got us to a Cup Final and all within a year. Not bad, worthy of further support, I'd say.
I'm always surprised (I don't know why?) when individuals doubt his motivational skills when he has shown them in abundance throughout his playing and managerial career. Some thought should tell the doubters that occasional below par shows such as Bolton do happen to the best. Imagine had we lost 1-6 at home to Citeh or a loss against lowly Blackburn Rovers at home!
Also. where is individual self-motivation and pride in this? Shouldn't players bear more responsibility? Look at Craig Bellamy, does he need Dalglish to motivate him?
Such is the expectation under Dalglish that modest progress is somehow seen as underachievement. Let the man do his job, I'm sure the clubs new owners will have the sense to do just that.
I'm always surprised (I don't know why?) when individuals doubt his motivational skills when he has shown them in abundance throughout his playing and managerial career. Some thought should tell the doubters that occasional below par shows such as Bolton do happen to the best. Imagine had we lost 1-6 at home to Citeh or a loss against lowly Blackburn Rovers at home!
Also. where is individual self-motivation and pride in this? Shouldn't players bear more responsibility? Look at Craig Bellamy, does he need Dalglish to motivate him?
Such is the expectation under Dalglish that modest progress is somehow seen as underachievement. Let the man do his job, I'm sure the clubs new owners will have the sense to do just that.
Excellent post.
I think that's a partial but clear overstatement. Carroll, with regret, I'll give you but for me it's far too soon to say the same about any of the others.
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=48383.msg1471183#msg1471183 date=1327590906]
His only fault has arguaby some bad tactics and buying badly.
Unfortunately he's bought very, very badly.
[/quote]Yet three of the players he has brought in top Morse's player of the year table
His only fault has arguaby some bad tactics and buying badly.
Unfortunately he's bought very, very badly.
[/quote]Yet three of the players he has brought in top Morse's player of the year table
[quote author=the count link=topic=48383.msg1471295#msg1471295 date=1327598421]
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=48383.msg1471183#msg1471183 date=1327590906]
His only fault has arguaby some bad tactics and buying badly.
Unfortunately he's bought very, very badly.
[/quote]Yet three of the players he has brought in top Morse's player of the year table
[/quote]
Yeah, but his expensive signings have been pretty awful. He should stick to picking up players on the cheap.
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=48383.msg1471183#msg1471183 date=1327590906]
His only fault has arguaby some bad tactics and buying badly.
Unfortunately he's bought very, very badly.
[/quote]Yet three of the players he has brought in top Morse's player of the year table
[/quote]
Yeah, but his expensive signings have been pretty awful. He should stick to picking up players on the cheap.
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=48383.msg1471297#msg1471297 date=1327598492]
[quote author=the count link=topic=48383.msg1471295#msg1471295 date=1327598421]
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=48383.msg1471183#msg1471183 date=1327590906]
His only fault has arguaby some bad tactics and buying badly.
Unfortunately he's bought very, very badly.
[/quote]Yet three of the players he has brought in top Morse's player of the year table
[/quote]
Yeah, but his expensive signings have been pretty awful. He should stick to picking up players on the cheap.
[/quote]He may well have spent money unwisely but to state that he was bought very very badly is way too sweeping a statement for my liking
[quote author=the count link=topic=48383.msg1471295#msg1471295 date=1327598421]
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=48383.msg1471183#msg1471183 date=1327590906]
His only fault has arguaby some bad tactics and buying badly.
Unfortunately he's bought very, very badly.
[/quote]Yet three of the players he has brought in top Morse's player of the year table
[/quote]
Yeah, but his expensive signings have been pretty awful. He should stick to picking up players on the cheap.
[/quote]He may well have spent money unwisely but to state that he was bought very very badly is way too sweeping a statement for my liking
he will bring us the title modo. not this year, but he will.
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=48383.msg1471369#msg1471369 date=1327605191]
he will bring us the title modo. not this year, but he will.
[/quote]
This^
he will bring us the title modo. not this year, but he will.
[/quote]
This^
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=48383.msg1471369#msg1471369 date=1327605191]
he will bring us the title modo. not this year, but he will.
[/quote]I think he will if he sticks around, but I am not convinced he will stick around.
he will bring us the title modo. not this year, but he will.
[/quote]I think he will if he sticks around, but I am not convinced he will stick around.
I get the Kenny love-in, but he's not infallible and you kinda get the feeling from some people that they take offence to people criticizing him, like it's not allowed.
When your marquee signing is the laughing stock of the league and two other players for a combined 35M or so are struggling to make an impact, you can't hide behind a couple of good signings. The overall picture is not a flattering one. That's not being unduly negative, it's just calling it like it is.
When your marquee signing is the laughing stock of the league and two other players for a combined 35M or so are struggling to make an impact, you can't hide behind a couple of good signings. The overall picture is not a flattering one. That's not being unduly negative, it's just calling it like it is.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=48383.msg1471410#msg1471410 date=1327611785]
I get the Kenny love-in, but he's not infallible and you kinda get the feeling from some people that they take offence to people criticizing him, like it's not allowed.
[/quote]
it isn't 😉
I get the Kenny love-in, but he's not infallible and you kinda get the feeling from some people that they take offence to people criticizing him, like it's not allowed.
[/quote]
it isn't 😉
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48383.msg1471413#msg1471413 date=1327612039]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=48383.msg1471410#msg1471410 date=1327611785]
I get the Kenny love-in, but he's not infallible and you kinda get the feeling from some people that they take offence to people criticizing him, like it's not allowed.
[/quote]
it isn't 😉
[/quote]
I agree Ken, but like Neil said this isn't a love in. I still think Kenny F*d up with some of the transfers. Doesn't mean that it can't be fixed.
There's still about 20 more games to play this season and we could possibly lift two trophies.
But I do sincerely hope that we get a couple of top class signings this summer or maybe even in the coming days.
We're not far away from having a good team. Like I've said before, we have a decent squad but we're lacking two or three top class players. . Problem is, IMO we've got too many squad players (average players) in the starting line up.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=48383.msg1471410#msg1471410 date=1327611785]
I get the Kenny love-in, but he's not infallible and you kinda get the feeling from some people that they take offence to people criticizing him, like it's not allowed.
[/quote]
it isn't 😉
[/quote]
I agree Ken, but like Neil said this isn't a love in. I still think Kenny F*d up with some of the transfers. Doesn't mean that it can't be fixed.
There's still about 20 more games to play this season and we could possibly lift two trophies.
But I do sincerely hope that we get a couple of top class signings this summer or maybe even in the coming days.
We're not far away from having a good team. Like I've said before, we have a decent squad but we're lacking two or three top class players. . Problem is, IMO we've got too many squad players (average players) in the starting line up.
[quote author=the count link=topic=48383.msg1471301#msg1471301 date=1327598843]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=48383.msg1471297#msg1471297 date=1327598492]
[quote author=the count link=topic=48383.msg1471295#msg1471295 date=1327598421]
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=48383.msg1471183#msg1471183 date=1327590906]
His only fault has arguaby some bad tactics and buying badly.
Unfortunately he's bought very, very badly.
[/quote]Yet three of the players he has brought in top Morse's player of the year table
[/quote]
Yeah, but his expensive signings have been pretty awful. He should stick to picking up players on the cheap.
[/quote]He may well have spent money unwisely but to state that he was bought very very badly is way too sweeping a statement for my liking
[/quote]
Carroll, Hendo and Downing cost 70 million,Count.
Perhaps it is sweeping, but its hard to get around that, especially since ALL those names had big question marks.
I dont care one way or another; there is no other manager on the planet i want.
Its hard to defend those transfers, s'all.
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=48383.msg1471297#msg1471297 date=1327598492]
[quote author=the count link=topic=48383.msg1471295#msg1471295 date=1327598421]
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=48383.msg1471183#msg1471183 date=1327590906]
His only fault has arguaby some bad tactics and buying badly.
Unfortunately he's bought very, very badly.
[/quote]Yet three of the players he has brought in top Morse's player of the year table
[/quote]
Yeah, but his expensive signings have been pretty awful. He should stick to picking up players on the cheap.
[/quote]He may well have spent money unwisely but to state that he was bought very very badly is way too sweeping a statement for my liking
[/quote]
Carroll, Hendo and Downing cost 70 million,Count.
Perhaps it is sweeping, but its hard to get around that, especially since ALL those names had big question marks.
I dont care one way or another; there is no other manager on the planet i want.
Its hard to defend those transfers, s'all.
- Status
Similar threads
