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Italy vs England

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Think i was the last person in the pub to realise it wasn't a goal, fucking damn, lol.

Too pissed, most were sating Welbeck was the best player, fuck knows, mixed emotions at the start, wanted Sterling but we surely had to play Lallana just for the for he can keep hold of the ball under pressure, fuck knows, huge game next, wtf Costa Rica? think it shows what a lot of people were writing about and saying, Top class strikers but fuck all behind them.
 
Having a similar debate myself. Decided to stick it out.

It's only once every four years, so let's do this shit properly.
 
Its fucking annoying though, when are England ever going to do anything ever? If Uruguay win then please fuck Hodgson off and get someone in who knows the score, Martinez and Rodgers no chance and although hes different to those 2 i wouldn't complain at Benitez, i dunno what other options would there be to get the best out of these young attacking players?
 
Think i was the last person in the pub to realise it wasn't a goal, fucking damn, lol.

Too pissed, most were sating Welbeck was the best player, fuck knows, mixed emotions at the start, wanted Sterling but we surely had to play Lallana just for the for he can keep hold of the ball under pressure, fuck knows, huge game next, wtf Costa Rica? think it shows what a lot of people were writing about and saying, Top class strikers but fuck all behind them.

A shitload of pundits have been discounting the climate spouting stuff about global game etc, as have many on here.

My view is very different. I feel if players have had their formative years playing footy in this climate or similar then they will inherently be better when the climate is similar.

I only put one bet on this world cup, £5 on Chile at 26/1 each way (4 places) due to that.

Now when teams play other teams from the same area it won't matter, neither when teams from cooler climates play each other, but when a South American team plays a team from elsewhere I think we'll see the slight advantage at some point, regardless of where the players play/live now.

Needless to say, it could show it's face when England play Uruguay.
 
A shitload of pundits have been discounting the climate spouting stuff about global game etc, as have many on here.

My view is very different. I feel if players have had their formative years playing footy in this climate or similar then they will inherently be better when the climate is similar.

I only put one bet on this world cup, £5 on Chile at 26/1 each way (4 places) due to that.

Now when teams play other teams from the same area it won't matter, neither when teams from cooler climates play each other, but when a South American team plays a team from elsewhere I think we'll see the slight advantage at some point, regardless of where the players play/live now.

Needless to say, it could show it's face when England play Uruguay.

Don't doubt you are talking sense tbh.

With Enlgand Italy its the same though isn't it? and England are obviously the ones on the wrong end of it, surprise surprise, a coach can make all the difference in a 50/50 game, even if odds are not quite in your favour and Hodgson is not top notch no matter how we look at it, a canny or just plain good coach can be the difference, dunno, head not straight right now and it sounds like England done well so maybe harsh, it was all a blur.
 
I don't think there's a whole lot to complain about this result from the England side to be completely honest. Italy are a quality side, and very solid defensively. I thought Hodgson, for once, made some very solid decisions in naming a side and making substitutes. Johnson wasn't anywhere near as bad as he was for us last season, but he was still quite mediocre.

Sterling and Sturridge looked as good as anybody has in this World Cup so far. Midfield got bypassed a few times, but that's to be expected considering how good Italy are in the midfield. Rooney contributed about what you expect from a wide position, and missed his chance, but shit happens. I thought Welbeck was really positive, probably contributed more than Barkley did after he came on. Wilshere didn't do much, and neither did Lallana for that matter.

Hopefully Sturridge is okay, and his injury isn't serious. As a relative neutral, this is the best I've ever seen an England side play. The amount of negativity here is excessive, replicate that sort of attacking threat against Uruguay/Costa Rica and points should be gained.

I think Hodgson should stick with the same lineup though, adding either Barkley or Lallana seems excessive.
 
He lost the ball so many times - but he does add something that few English players have.

Problem with starting him is that you have a lazy player who adds nothing defensively ...

Interesting to see how what woy does going forward.

Problem is that at international level against the top teams you simply can't gift them back the ball like that. Contrast him to Sterling who, considering how he runs at defences, lost the ball very little in comparison.
 
Actually thinking about it we should probably be making a bigger deal of Baines being pretty shite tonight defensively, I think he needed more help but I don't think Ashley Cole in his prime would have had as tough a time.

This. Baines had a very rough night, very disappointing, I don't remember a single one of his hard-hit deep penetrating passes into the box. The danger wasn't on Johnson's side, it was coming from Baines' all night.
 
I don't think there's a whole lot to complain about this result from the England side to be completely honest. Italy are a quality side, and very solid defensively. I thought Hodgson, for once, made some very solid decisions in naming a side and making substitutes. Johnson wasn't anywhere near as bad as he was for us last season, but he was still quite mediocre.

Sterling and Sturridge looked as good as anybody has in this World Cup so far. Midfield got bypassed a few times, but that's to be expected considering how good Italy are in the midfield. Rooney contributed about what you expect from a wide position, and missed his chance, but shit happens. I thought Welbeck was really positive, probably contributed more than Barkley did after he came on. Wilshere didn't do much, and neither did Lallana for that matter.

Hopefully Sturridge is okay, and his injury isn't serious. As a relative neutral, this is the best I've ever seen an England side play. The amount of negativity here is excessive, replicate that sort of attacking threat against Uruguay/Costa Rica and points should be gained.

I think Hodgson should stick with the same lineup though, adding either Barkley or Lallana seems excessive.

Bar the two bits struck out this is spot on.

It was a top class match between two very equally matched sides and we played very well. Dominated possession (and chances) in the second half after sharing the first and the difference came down to the balance of the sides, Rooney shoe-horned in left us with Sterling and Johnson as our wide men and Baines offering little (though we didn't try to use him much either) whereas Italy naturally spread the ball wide whenever in possession.
 
Hart - 7 - Solid and generally confidence inspiring for the defence, though I wish he'd come for the cross on that Balotelli goal. It was in the air long enough if he was positioned properly.

Baines - 6 - disappointing in both defence and attack, it only needed the attacking player to cut inside to leave him for dead. Maybe Shaw against Uruguay ?

Jagielka - 7 - very solid all night.

Cahill - 7 - Should mention it was poor from Cahill to leave Balotelli, there was nothing in front of him and he should have stuck to him, otherwise the CBs played very well.

Johnson - 7 - just don't get the haters on here. I should realise that they will stick the boot in, even when unwarranted, just because they hate his face. Solid game in defence, midfield and attack (it was Italy - do you seriously think a FB is going to romp through their defence - that was Sterling's/Sturridge's/Rooney's job). Kept possession well and was one of the main fulcrums between defence and attack. Comparisons to Italy's RB are disingenuous because Italy's set-up was completely different.

Gerrard - 7 - against a solid defence his passing often helped us spread the game. Picked off loose passes and kept possession well, don't remember him giving it up once.

Henderson - 6 - usual energy which was always going to tell against him in the heat.humidity. Solid without adding anything special.

Welbeck - 7 - a very good first half where he gelled well with Sterling/Sturridge, but faded in the second.

Rooney - 5 - One pass aside (a beaut.) he really contributed nothing of note. Shouldn't be starting but is undroppable.

Sturridge - 7.5 - His pace and control was a constant thorn in their side and he took his goal superbly. A striker full of confidence.

Sterling - 8.5 - He simply terrified them. Once they realised how good he is they doubled/tripled up on him whenever he was in possession and often this still didn't stop him. Still needs to work on his shooting/crossing. He and Sturridge looked a world-class partnership in the making.

Lallana - Not enough time to properly assess - looked like he could do a lot more than Rooney given more minutes.

Barkley - 5 - constantly gave away possession, one good run and shot. Not a positive impression but maybe not the right match/team for him.

Wilshere - 6 - Hardly noticed him. Would have been better to keep Henderson on though he was fading in the heat/humidity. Totally over-rated player.

Budgie - 8.5 : Fat toad sitting crunched up on the sidelines. Still, that shouldn't detract from the fact he put out the team we all wanted to see (and realistically he was never going to drop Rooney). Kudos. Made his subs early and benched the right players. Only mistakes he made were maybe pulling Serling over to the right and Barkley instead of Lallana, a matador not a picador was required. Unfortunate maybe in that neither Barkley nor Wilshere made any impact.

Conditions :
The heat & humidity meant we were unable to 'defend-from-front'. It should be better in other locations ........

".......especially on a day in which playing football was difficult,” Marchisio told Sky Italia in reference to the humid conditions in the Amazonian city. “In certain moments, due to the hot temperature, it felt like we were having hallucinations."
Pirlo said: “We have suffered, but the hot climate was incredible.

Uruguay : same team. Maybe I'd consider Shaw for Baines though maybe Uruguay will suit Baines better though I think not with Cavani /Suarez. Rooney should be dropped but won't be so pointless debating it.

Two sets of stats :
ESPN : England 18 shots (8) and Italy 12 (5). Possession 48-52%

OPTA:
EnglandvItalystats_3158097.jpg
 
Johnson - 7 - just don't get the haters on here. I should realise that they will stick the boot in, even when unwarranted, just because they hate his face. Solid game in defence, midfield and attack (it was Italy - do you seriously think a FB is going to romp through their defence - that was Sterling's/Sturridge's/Rooney's job). Kept possession well and was one of the main fulcrum's between defence and attack. Comparisons to Italy's RB are disingenuous because Italy's set-up was completely different.

I've seen quite a few regular footy sites say he was average to poor too ... Keeping possession is misleading - as it is for us on the club level - because he's not confident enough anymore (it seems) to do more than that most of the time (how often do you see him beat a man in the attacking 1/3? It rarely happens).

I agree with FFF - he's the best England currently have (at least 'overall') but I don't think that means he was good. A decent outing where he didn't put a foot wrong defensively (I think) and added little, to nothing, to the attack.
 
The heat and humidity will be worse in Qatar. I bet the young players of the world cant wait to go there.
 
Thoughts on the game:
Johnson was pretty good. Was concentrated defensively and decent going forward. England had more trouble down their left side.
I'd bench Rooney in the next game. Bar the one pass he did nothing. Should have scored and looks out of place.
The Hendo - Wilshere sub was awful. Dont know if Hendo was tired but Wilshere didnt contribute anything.

Chasing a goal in the last 20 mins under those conditions was always going to be hard. Every player looked a bit fucked and Italy just defended deep.

Might have been better with Lambert inn instead of Lallana. Then the misshit crosses would have had something to aim for at least.
 
Why are people so nice to Lallana, it's not like we've signed him?
Is it that hard to say that he was fucking wank?

He should have picked Lambert when he took off Sturridge.

Oh and Welbeck is the worst player in the world, right @Spaghetti Legs ?
Didn't cause the Italians any trouble did he?
 
Hendo isn't appreciated by most outside the club. He only got 5/10 from some hacks. I thought he was really good and worked his socks off. Lallana won us a free kick in a very good position that was wasted, and created more space than before in the centre by drawing two defenders to the left. It's not his fault that no one ran into that space. Baines was quite a worry. Maybe he'd been given strict instructions from Hodge, maybe Rooney's incompetence made him nervous, but he didn't just look ineffective to me, he also looked a bit scared.
 
Woy picked a good attacking team but I cant stand the system he uses. He used the same when he managed us. 2 banks of 4 defending. Fullbacks very narrow which always gives the opposition space on the sides. Every time Italy had possession we dropped deep and let them come at us. I would love to have seen us pressing them higher up the pitch and trying to dominate them. Sterling was englands best player by a mile. Baines and johnson were wank and I cant believe the balotelli goal. Standard cross that cahill should have dealt with. But there are plenty of positives but rooney wasnt one of them.
 
Macca: TBH Baines has always looked that way to me. He's a talented footballer but I've always had the impression that he's surprised by the level he's reached and somewhat nervous at the prospect of operating there. Nor have I ever seen one shred of evidence to back up the idea, which seems to have taken hold lately, that he's now ahead of Cole. An honest Hodgson would now be having doubts about whether he selected the right LBs, though his statements in the closing weeks of his tenure at LFC suggest to me that he can kid himself massively when his self-esteem's at stake.
 
This. Baines had a very rough night, very disappointing, I don't remember a single one of his hard-hit deep penetrating passes into the box. The danger wasn't on Johnson's side, it was coming from Baines' all night.


There's a reason for that too.

Wellbeck supported Johnson defensively all night long. Rooney gave Baines fucking nothing, leaving Darmian to run forward at will.
 
There's a reason for that too.

Wellbeck supported Johnson defensively all night long. Rooney gave Baines fucking nothing, leaving Darmian to run forward at will.

Yep and Italy's right side was also much more dangerous overall with Candreva probably being the man of the match.
 
There's a reason for that too.

Wellbeck supported Johnson defensively all night long. Rooney gave Baines fucking nothing, leaving Darmian to run forward at will.

This is true. However it doesn't account for Baines showing Darmian / Candreva etc. the outside and then being totally at sea when they cut inside, stranding him, at will.
 
I'm not sure what Hodgson's plan was to be honest. Whenever Italy had the ball, England players backed off and took up up what seemingly looked like pre-determined positions no matter what the Italians were doing with the ball. And the Italian players had all the time in the world to do whatever they wanted with the ball, running rings around England with nobody pressing them at all, sucking the life out of our forward players. If that's how he is going to play, he may as well select Carroll, Wellbeck, Milner and Cleverley, not Sterling, Sturridge, Henderson etc. And if you're not going to play Rooney in his favourite position, why play him at all?

Our full-backs were practically caught in no-man's land, neither defending nor going forward with much conviction. Always thought Hart is not positionally good and he could have done much better with Balotelli's header.

England is a good team but with the wrong manager.
 
This is true. However it doesn't account for Baines showing Darmian / Candreva etc. the outside and then being totally at sea when they cut inside, stranding him, at will.

Neither of them had a good game but Baines was made to look even worse than he was.
 
I'm not sure what Hodgson's plan was to be honest. Whenever Italy had the ball, England players backed off and took up up what seemingly looked like pre-determined positions no matter what the Italians were doing with the ball. .

Well if you use banks of four like Hodge does then reverting to pre-determined positions is hardly inexplicable, because well-organised banks of four can be very difficult to negotiate a way through. It's not a wise way to play against Italy, of all teams, though, because they're one of the best at overcoming it. What was worse was the poor use our midfield made of the space when they did get the ball. Gerrard must hate the comparisons with Pirlo because Pirlo showed how to really play in that position.
 
I thought it was a gripping game that seemed to be over in a flash. Two well matched teams and the result decided by the Italians being more ruthless when the chances came. I thought the key moment was Rooney missing the near post with a free shot on his favourite foot from a central position, especially as the goalkeeper was stranded.

Despite some positives, now the pressure is really on for England, the team must win the remaining two games. Can they do it?
 
I'm not sure what Hodgson's plan was to be honest. Whenever Italy had the ball, England players backed off and took up up what seemingly looked like pre-determined positions no matter what the Italians were doing with the ball. And the Italian players had all the time in the world to do whatever they wanted with the ball, running rings around England with nobody pressing them at all, sucking the life out of our forward players.

TBF I don't think you can discount that they must have made some allowances for the conditions to ensure they didn't run themselves to a standstill.
 
I hate Hodgsons standing off tactics. It used to drive me crazy when he was our manager.
I can understand it because of yesterdays humidity and temprature. But if its the same against Uruguay he needs a slap.
 
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