Interesting 2 cents from Irish pundits

[Dreambeliever]

During Artentina's ext Giles and Dunphy picked out Masher as a key reason for their exit.

They showed clips explaining he's great defensively but offers nothing going forward.


They went on to explain that in their day you played with 2 CM who attacked when you had the ball and defended when you didn't.

They believe no teams needs a Masher.

What say you? Do we need a new DM or just change our approach.

 

[doctor_mac]

They're the stupidist fucking pundits in the history of football coverage on the telly though.

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=41305.msg1149291#msg1149291 date=1281078799]
They're the stupidist fucking pundits in the history of football coverage on the telly though.
[/quote]

Garth Crooks?

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=41305.msg1149291#msg1149291 date=1281078799]
They're the stupidist fucking pundits in the history of football coverage on the telly though.
[/quote]

I've always found Giles excellant.

Sorry your right Richard Keys and Ian Wright are so much better.

 

[manwithnoname]

Mascherano was the only player *in* Argentina's midfield, and he was up against 5 Germans

They're halfwitted cunts

 

[Irish_Red]

Giles isn't too bad Dunphy is just a Muppet who changes his opinions every week. If you can get a player who can both defend and attack then great but how many of them are out there.

The main reason Argentina ot beat was due to manager and no defence. Any team with as poor as defence as Argentina DM.

 

[spider-Neil]

every team needs a defensive midfielder

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=Irish_Red link=topic=41305.msg1149301#msg1149301 date=1281079414]
Giles isn't too bad Dunphy is just a Muppet who changes his opinions every week. If you can get a player who can both defend and attack then great but how many of them are out there.

The main reason Argentina ot beat was due to manager and no defence. Any team with as poor as defence as Argentina DM.
[/quote]

That is the bonus for any pundit. They talk and talk and talk, and noone can hold anything against them.

Argie lost cause they wanted Messi to do what he does in Barcelona, in addition to also do what Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro, Zlatan and Henry does in Barcelona. He was supposed to dictate the tempo, create the chances, score the goals and run the game. Easy to fail a little bit then.

 

[Jack D Rips]

Dunphy predicted that Korea would beat Portugal.

I rest my case your honour

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41305.msg1149298#msg1149298 date=1281079200]
Mascherano was the only player *in* Argentina's midfield, and he was up against 5 Germans

They're halfwitted cunts
[/quote]

He was, and Dunphy is a mad twat.

 

[doctor_mac]

Yes I'm harsh on Giles- but taken as a pair, Dunphy could be combined with even the most erudite and insightful pundit you could imagine, and they'd still be a horribly bad pundit team, such is the sheer scale of Dunphy's stupidity.

 

[keniget]

It's not interesting it all. It's fucking imbecilic and the fact they get paid handsomely for spouting such shit on TV instead of having to take some menial job their half developed brains are semi-capable of performing to some degree of adequacy is an injustice.

 

[zlatan18]

Every team needs 1 Defensive Midfielder, but no team needs 2 Defensive midfielders especially against teams like stoke and wigan

 

[Fox]

[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=41305.msg1149334#msg1149334 date=1281084417]
Every team needs 1 Defensive Midfielder, but no team needs 2 Defensive midfielders especially against teams like stoke and wigan
[/quote]

no they don't. This modern defensive midfielder thing is shite. Who was ours in our most successful period? Did they offer nothing going forward ???

A modern day shite term for a limited CM

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=41305.msg1149334#msg1149334 date=1281084417]
Every team needs 1 Defensive Midfielder, but no team needs 2 Defensive midfielders especially against teams like stoke and wigan
[/quote]

Our team needs box-to-box midfielders.

Too often have our team created good moves, put in a cross and not been on the end of the cross because our Xabis, or Lucases or Mascheranos have not been nowhere near the box. As a CM you are supposed ot help your team treathen the box, score goals. This is an area we need to improve in. We cant let our CMs f this job just because they are good at breaking up play.

 

[zlatan18]

[quote author=Fox link=topic=41305.msg1149340#msg1149340 date=1281085408]
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=41305.msg1149334#msg1149334 date=1281084417]
Every team needs 1 Defensive Midfielder, but no team needs 2 Defensive midfielders especially against teams like stoke and wigan
[/quote]

no they don't. This modern defensive midfielder thing is shite. Who was ours in our most successful period? Did they offer nothing going forward ???

A modern day shite term for a limited CM


[/quote]

Most teams have 1.

Liverpool - Mascherano
Chelsea - Essien
Inter Milan - Cambiasso
Real Madrid - Diarra/Gago
Barcelona - Busquets
Man City - Yaya Toure
Juventus - Felipe Melo

Get my drift. 1 is plenty, no need for 2 though

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41305.msg1149316#msg1149316 date=1281080906]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41305.msg1149298#msg1149298 date=1281079200]
Mascherano was the only player *in* Argentina's midfield, and he was up against 5 Germans

They're halfwitted cunts
[/quote]


He was, and Dunphy is a mad twat.
[/quote]

I remember reading an article that said mash was at his best when he has the lion's share of defensive duties leaving the attackers to do what they do best, stating mash uses his strength and mobility to cover the gaps they leave. can't remember the headline of the article otherwise I would goggle it.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41305.msg1149354#msg1149354 date=1281086155]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41305.msg1149316#msg1149316 date=1281080906]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41305.msg1149298#msg1149298 date=1281079200]
Mascherano was the only player *in* Argentina's midfield, and he was up against 5 Germans

They're halfwitted cunts
[/quote]


He was, and Dunphy is a mad twat.
[/quote]

I remember reading an article that said mash was at his best when he has the lion's share of defensive duties leaving the attackers to do what they do best, stating mash uses his strength and mobility to cover the gaps they leave. can't remember the headline of the article otherwise I would goggle it.

[/quote]

It's always been the same. When the attack isn't functioning it puts more pressure on the defence. When the team isn't scoring goals people start to question the worth of the players who don't score goals. It's stupid really.

I won't be devastated if he goes, because I think we've got away with it big time with Gerrard and Torres staying, but he is excellent at his main duty of breaking up play.

 

[Atlas]

Footballs changed a lot since their day, one DM is pretty much the norm now in many teams and can be seen at the world cup as an example. It gives the players in front of them license to destroy the opposition with attacking football safe in the knowledge that they don't need to worry about defending.

 

[refugee]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=41305.msg1149291#msg1149291 date=1281078799]
They're the stupidist fucking pundits in the history of football coverage on the telly though.
[/quote]

Correct.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41305.msg1149358#msg1149358 date=1281086381]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41305.msg1149354#msg1149354 date=1281086155]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41305.msg1149316#msg1149316 date=1281080906]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41305.msg1149298#msg1149298 date=1281079200]
Mascherano was the only player *in* Argentina's midfield, and he was up against 5 Germans

They're halfwitted cunts
[/quote]


He was, and Dunphy is a mad twat.
[/quote]

I remember reading an article that said mash was at his best when he has the lion's share of defensive duties leaving the attackers to do what they do best, stating mash uses his strength and mobility to cover the gaps they leave. can't remember the headline of the article otherwise I would goggle it.

[/quote]

It's always been the same. When the attack isn't functioning it puts more pressure on the defence. When the team isn't scoring goals people start to question the worth of the players who don't score goals. It's stupid really.

I won't be devastated if he goes, because I think we've got away with it big time with Gerrard and Torres staying, but he is excellent at his main duty of breaking up play.
[/quote]

let's be honest if one of 'the big three' had to leave I think most would vote mash as the one.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Fox link=topic=41305.msg1149340#msg1149340 date=1281085408]
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=41305.msg1149334#msg1149334 date=1281084417]
Every team needs 1 Defensive Midfielder, but no team needs 2 Defensive midfielders especially against teams like stoke and wigan
[/quote]

no they don't. This modern defensive midfielder thing is shite. Who was ours in our most successful period? Did they offer nothing going forward ???

A modern day shite term for a limited CM


[/quote]

Do you watch any other football apart from our games? Or even have a passing interest in it?

I know this is you, Fox, but I'm really struggling with the idea that somebody could be that stupid. It's actually quite depressing.

 

[spider-Neil]

the truth of the matter is its tactics more than personnel that dictates how attacking or defensive a team is. when barca played arsenal, yes their attacking was awesome but the way they hunted for the ball when they lost it was incredible. I think if mash were given more licence to get forwards he would get forwards more, he certainly has the mobility to get back if we lost the ball.

 

[Loch Ness Monster]

Essien is not a DM. He is a box to box beast.

 

[ILD]

...and he is fit for the start of the season. Oh oo.

 

[Fox]

[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=41305.msg1149347#msg1149347 date=1281085713]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=41305.msg1149340#msg1149340 date=1281085408]
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=41305.msg1149334#msg1149334 date=1281084417]
Every team needs 1 Defensive Midfielder, but no team needs 2 Defensive midfielders especially against teams like stoke and wigan
[/quote]

no they don't. This modern defensive midfielder thing is shite. Who was ours in our most successful period? Did they offer nothing going forward ???

A modern day shite term for a limited CM


[/quote]

Most teams have 1.

Liverpool - Mascherano
Chelsea - Essien
Inter Milan - Cambiasso
Real Madrid - Diarra/Gago
Barcelona - Busquets
Man City - Yaya Toure
Juventus - Felipe Melo

Get my drift. 1 is plenty, no need for 2 though
[/quote]


all of those offer more going forward than Mash, they are better passers as well. You lot have short memories, do you not remember slating mash constantly for his shocking passing and giving the ball away.

He is a good spoiler, not a £20 million + midfield general

Mash might be a better tackler or interceptor - WOW

 

[gareth_thomas]

Mascherano's passing is fucking nowhere near as bad as some on here claim...

Football teams need defensive midfielders to clean up after those exciting yet lazy creative types.. They have a time and a place where they should be used and DM's have been incredibly important for most of the top clubs over the last decade... Some managers simply know how and when to use them...

Playing against shite teams that have no interest in attacking is one of those times where having a dedicated Defensive midfielder is kinda pointless. At points last season only Mascherano was trying to create something - This doesnt highlight Mascherano as a shite player - This highlights that he is a born winner that hates to lose and the rest of our squad needed a kick in the head..

Makelele was incredibly important for Real Madrid when they dominated - He was then instrumental in Chelsea's growth..

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=gareth_thomas link=topic=41305.msg1149384#msg1149384 date=1281088947]
Mascherano's passing is fucking nowhere near as bad as some on here claim...

Football teams need defensive midfielders to clean up after those exciting yet lazy creative types.. They have a time and a place where they should be used and DM's have been incredibly important for most of the top clubs over the last decade... Some managers simply know how and when to use them...

Playing against shite teams that have no interest in attacking is one of those times where having a dedicated Defensive midfielder is kinda pointless. At points last season only Mascherano was trying to create something - This doesnt highlight Mascherano as a shite player - This highlights that he is a born winner that hates to lose and the rest of our squad needed a kick in the head..

Makelele was incredibly important for Real Madrid when they dominated - He was then instrumental in Chelsea's growth..




[/quote]

His distribution is not his strength. He is much much better at breaking up play. Of course hecan pass the ball, but we need someone who can read the game ahead of him, and dictate the game by picking out long range passes. He Mascherano has huge limits. But for breaking up oppositions game he is probably the best in the world!

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=refugee link=topic=41305.msg1149364#msg1149364 date=1281086815]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=41305.msg1149291#msg1149291 date=1281078799]
They're the stupidist fucking pundits in the history of football coverage on the telly though.
[/quote]

Correct.
[/quote]

Again I dispute this. Again I vote Garth Crooks

 

[manwithnoname]

I know this is you, Fox, but I'm really struggling with the idea that somebody could be that stupid. It's actually quite depressing.

I have bolded the relevant bit