I'm leaving to win things
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[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38502.msg1036967#msg1036967 date=1263818752]
£30m-£40m would soften the blow for our soon to be 30 year old captain.
[/quote]
You reckon? It'd either be a drop in the ocean of our debt repayments, or Benitez would waste it on a crocked midfielder and two pedestrian wingers.
The only way it would do us any good is if it were used to pay off the manager's 4-year contract and bring in someone who can lift the club again.
£30m-£40m would soften the blow for our soon to be 30 year old captain.
[/quote]
You reckon? It'd either be a drop in the ocean of our debt repayments, or Benitez would waste it on a crocked midfielder and two pedestrian wingers.
The only way it would do us any good is if it were used to pay off the manager's 4-year contract and bring in someone who can lift the club again.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=38502.msg1036959#msg1036959 date=1263818416]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38502.msg1036781#msg1036781 date=1263801297]
Gerrard would be a massive loss, not only in footballing terms but psychologically and symbolically. It would tell everyone that LFC was no longer a great club, that it couldn't keep its best players.
In strictly business terms, £40m for a 30-year-old would be almost unrefusable, although I suspect that figure's just been plucked from the air. City might pay it; no one else would. I doubt whether Gerrard would go to City, though having said that, it would seriously piss off the Red Mancs if he were to help City win the league.
Overall, though, if we're given a choice between losing a manager who looks like he's drowning and an iconic captain who looks like he wants to drown himself, I'd take the former every single time. Bring someone in who can get Gerrard playing like Gerrard again.
[/quote]
Top post, Bunny.
Additionally, screw all the so called supporters who are so quick to turn on a captain who has done 10 times what any manager of the last 15 years had done for us and immeasurably more than any poster on this forum has ever done for the club.
These flaming dickheads who are not just willing but almost desperate to sweep away a career of blood, sweat and tears that easily qualifies as the best ever delivered by a home grown local; not only do they want to sweep it away but they're actually infantile and pitiful enough to try and divert some blame for the clubs failings onto his shoulders. It would be impossible to be upset with Gerrard if he decided wankers like that weren't worth a single additional drop of his sweat.
[/quote]
I don't think people are turning on the captain (well, at least not most here). However, if you are implying that critisism like Sunny's in a previous post is not acceptable, then I have to disagree with you.
Steven Gerrard has done a lot for this club. Probably more than most. Nobody can deny this, and it will be a disaster for this club if he left. However, he is the captain of the club and one of the top two players here, and has such has responsibility to the fans.
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38502.msg1036781#msg1036781 date=1263801297]
Gerrard would be a massive loss, not only in footballing terms but psychologically and symbolically. It would tell everyone that LFC was no longer a great club, that it couldn't keep its best players.
In strictly business terms, £40m for a 30-year-old would be almost unrefusable, although I suspect that figure's just been plucked from the air. City might pay it; no one else would. I doubt whether Gerrard would go to City, though having said that, it would seriously piss off the Red Mancs if he were to help City win the league.
Overall, though, if we're given a choice between losing a manager who looks like he's drowning and an iconic captain who looks like he wants to drown himself, I'd take the former every single time. Bring someone in who can get Gerrard playing like Gerrard again.
[/quote]
Top post, Bunny.
Additionally, screw all the so called supporters who are so quick to turn on a captain who has done 10 times what any manager of the last 15 years had done for us and immeasurably more than any poster on this forum has ever done for the club.
These flaming dickheads who are not just willing but almost desperate to sweep away a career of blood, sweat and tears that easily qualifies as the best ever delivered by a home grown local; not only do they want to sweep it away but they're actually infantile and pitiful enough to try and divert some blame for the clubs failings onto his shoulders. It would be impossible to be upset with Gerrard if he decided wankers like that weren't worth a single additional drop of his sweat.
[/quote]
I don't think people are turning on the captain (well, at least not most here). However, if you are implying that critisism like Sunny's in a previous post is not acceptable, then I have to disagree with you.
Steven Gerrard has done a lot for this club. Probably more than most. Nobody can deny this, and it will be a disaster for this club if he left. However, he is the captain of the club and one of the top two players here, and has such has responsibility to the fans.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38502.msg1036938#msg1036938 date=1263817390]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38502.msg1036932#msg1036932 date=1263816597]
I would honestly be heartbroken if Gerrard left.
[/quote]
So would I but he's a player who relies on his heart so much and, if his heart's not in it anymore, we may as well get what we can. As for the captaincy debate it's not just about how he plays personally but it's how he leads both on and the pitch - physcially, verbally, motivationally. I'm sure he's feeling dejected. We all are.
In fact, I'm sick of hearing how badly players are feeling or how upset this person makes them or someone else makes them. How the fuck do they think WE feel ? The fans. We're fucking GUTTED at the moment about what's going on. I'm having to physically drag myself the match Anita. It comes to something when a cup of tea and watching fucking Eastenders seems a better option than going to the game, freezing my bollocks off and to watch us perform like a bunch of hapless and heartless idiots. WE'RE the lifeblood of this club, not the players. We're the one constant of this club until the day we stop breathing. We're the ones who spend money we can't really afford supporting a team through thick and thin - a team that's giving very little back before going home to their lives of currently unjustified luxury, fortune and without any worries. We're the ones who it pains most. I'm not saying it's doesn't hurt them - I'm sure for many it really does. But for lots of fans Liverpool represents hope and the team, manager and fuckwits of owners are denying the fans that at the moment. It fucking hurts. I've supported this team all my life and been a season ticket holder for nearly 20 years and for the first time in my life I find myself questioning why I'm doing it. I really am. I've always clung on to hope that we'll turn around but this time feels like we're at a real watershed. The top of the hill. We'll either get over it or plummet sharply downwards.
[/quote]
Lovely post. Which I totally agree with, but I don't agree that the blame should be placed squarely on Gerrard. Khl's questioning why it's only this season that it's been brought to a head that we have so many players who are simply not good enough to play for LFC. I'd argue it's because Gerrard (along with a couple of others) have been outstanding for so long that they've compensated for the weakness of others.
Gerrard is getting older, he can't shake off injuries as easily as he once could. I'm sure he's not only frustrated with the situation we're in, but also his own body for not being able to do what we know he's capable of.
Why are we blaming the one player who has always dragged us out of shit because he's unable to be superman all the time?
I can't believe how quick people are to turn their back on one of the greatest players who's ever played for our club.
We're all hurt and frustrated Sunny, but the people I want to see gone are the people who have never had the heart or ability to play for this club, not those who have typified those very qualities their whole careers.
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38502.msg1036932#msg1036932 date=1263816597]
I would honestly be heartbroken if Gerrard left.
[/quote]
So would I but he's a player who relies on his heart so much and, if his heart's not in it anymore, we may as well get what we can. As for the captaincy debate it's not just about how he plays personally but it's how he leads both on and the pitch - physcially, verbally, motivationally. I'm sure he's feeling dejected. We all are.
In fact, I'm sick of hearing how badly players are feeling or how upset this person makes them or someone else makes them. How the fuck do they think WE feel ? The fans. We're fucking GUTTED at the moment about what's going on. I'm having to physically drag myself the match Anita. It comes to something when a cup of tea and watching fucking Eastenders seems a better option than going to the game, freezing my bollocks off and to watch us perform like a bunch of hapless and heartless idiots. WE'RE the lifeblood of this club, not the players. We're the one constant of this club until the day we stop breathing. We're the ones who spend money we can't really afford supporting a team through thick and thin - a team that's giving very little back before going home to their lives of currently unjustified luxury, fortune and without any worries. We're the ones who it pains most. I'm not saying it's doesn't hurt them - I'm sure for many it really does. But for lots of fans Liverpool represents hope and the team, manager and fuckwits of owners are denying the fans that at the moment. It fucking hurts. I've supported this team all my life and been a season ticket holder for nearly 20 years and for the first time in my life I find myself questioning why I'm doing it. I really am. I've always clung on to hope that we'll turn around but this time feels like we're at a real watershed. The top of the hill. We'll either get over it or plummet sharply downwards.
[/quote]
Lovely post. Which I totally agree with, but I don't agree that the blame should be placed squarely on Gerrard. Khl's questioning why it's only this season that it's been brought to a head that we have so many players who are simply not good enough to play for LFC. I'd argue it's because Gerrard (along with a couple of others) have been outstanding for so long that they've compensated for the weakness of others.
Gerrard is getting older, he can't shake off injuries as easily as he once could. I'm sure he's not only frustrated with the situation we're in, but also his own body for not being able to do what we know he's capable of.
Why are we blaming the one player who has always dragged us out of shit because he's unable to be superman all the time?
I can't believe how quick people are to turn their back on one of the greatest players who's ever played for our club.
We're all hurt and frustrated Sunny, but the people I want to see gone are the people who have never had the heart or ability to play for this club, not those who have typified those very qualities their whole careers.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=38502.msg1036959#msg1036959 date=1263818416]
These flaming dickheads who are not just willing but almost desperate to sweep away a career of blood, sweat and tears that easily qualifies as the best ever delivered by a home grown local; not only do they want to sweep it away but they're actually infantile and pitiful enough to try and divert some blame for the clubs failings onto his shoulders. It would be impossible to be upset with Gerrard if he decided wankers like that weren't worth a single additional drop of his sweat.
[/quote]
Who exactly is that aimed at ? Tone it down please Wizardry.
I don't think Gerrard is up to the captains job because it needs someone with more motivational skills and less prone to letting their personal feelings affect their performances. It's not a criticism it's just his character but it remains a problem for the team as a whole. I'd give to Carra or Reina come the new season. Is he a Liverpool legend and someone who's carried this club for the last 10 years ? Absolutely he is. No-ones doubting that.
These flaming dickheads who are not just willing but almost desperate to sweep away a career of blood, sweat and tears that easily qualifies as the best ever delivered by a home grown local; not only do they want to sweep it away but they're actually infantile and pitiful enough to try and divert some blame for the clubs failings onto his shoulders. It would be impossible to be upset with Gerrard if he decided wankers like that weren't worth a single additional drop of his sweat.
[/quote]
Who exactly is that aimed at ? Tone it down please Wizardry.
I don't think Gerrard is up to the captains job because it needs someone with more motivational skills and less prone to letting their personal feelings affect their performances. It's not a criticism it's just his character but it remains a problem for the team as a whole. I'd give to Carra or Reina come the new season. Is he a Liverpool legend and someone who's carried this club for the last 10 years ? Absolutely he is. No-ones doubting that.
Let me clarify one thing here. Not once do I think our failings are down to Steven Gerrard. Not in the slightest. So get that idea out your heads right now. I hold the blame at the door of Tom Hicks, George Gillette and Rafael Benitez. Steven Gerrard is a legendary Liverpool player. I'm not doubting that. All I am saying is that he's not doing a captains job right now - and that is to stand up and be counted on (when he's not injured) and off the pitch. I've not seen that happen this season. Like it's easy being a supporter of a winning team the same is true of being the captain of it. We need our leaders to lead right now and they are not.
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38502.msg1036970#msg1036970 date=1263818868]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38502.msg1036967#msg1036967 date=1263818752]
£30m-£40m would soften the blow for our soon to be 30 year old captain.
[/quote]
You reckon? It'd either be a drop in the ocean of our debt repayments, or Benitez would waste it on a crocked midfielder and two pedestrian wingers.
The only way it would do us any good is if it were used to pay off the manager's 4-year contract and bring in someone who can lift the club again.
[/quote]
Yes i do.
I think you're also fully aware that other options would be available to us besides the 3 you stated.
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38502.msg1036967#msg1036967 date=1263818752]
£30m-£40m would soften the blow for our soon to be 30 year old captain.
[/quote]
You reckon? It'd either be a drop in the ocean of our debt repayments, or Benitez would waste it on a crocked midfielder and two pedestrian wingers.
The only way it would do us any good is if it were used to pay off the manager's 4-year contract and bring in someone who can lift the club again.
[/quote]
Yes i do.
I think you're also fully aware that other options would be available to us besides the 3 you stated.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38502.msg1036985#msg1036985 date=1263819608]
I would be nice to hear Gerrard come out and state his intentions. I understand if he wants to go, though I suspect much of this is speculation surrounding last weeks spat. Either way, it's not helping a club that's already in crisis.
[/quote]
What spat?
I would be nice to hear Gerrard come out and state his intentions. I understand if he wants to go, though I suspect much of this is speculation surrounding last weeks spat. Either way, it's not helping a club that's already in crisis.
[/quote]
What spat?
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38502.msg1036986#msg1036986 date=1263819695]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38502.msg1036970#msg1036970 date=1263818868]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38502.msg1036967#msg1036967 date=1263818752]
£30m-£40m would soften the blow for our soon to be 30 year old captain.
[/quote]
You reckon? It'd either be a drop in the ocean of our debt repayments, or Benitez would waste it on a crocked midfielder and two pedestrian wingers.
The only way it would do us any good is if it were used to pay off the manager's 4-year contract and bring in someone who can lift the club again.
[/quote]
Yes i do.
I think you're also fully aware that other options would be available to us besides the 3 you stated.
[/quote]
I don't know. Put it in these terms...
Would you be happy if Gerrard's transfer fee had been spent on Aquilani and Johnson?
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38502.msg1036970#msg1036970 date=1263818868]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38502.msg1036967#msg1036967 date=1263818752]
£30m-£40m would soften the blow for our soon to be 30 year old captain.
[/quote]
You reckon? It'd either be a drop in the ocean of our debt repayments, or Benitez would waste it on a crocked midfielder and two pedestrian wingers.
The only way it would do us any good is if it were used to pay off the manager's 4-year contract and bring in someone who can lift the club again.
[/quote]
Yes i do.
I think you're also fully aware that other options would be available to us besides the 3 you stated.
[/quote]
I don't know. Put it in these terms...
Would you be happy if Gerrard's transfer fee had been spent on Aquilani and Johnson?
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38502.msg1036989#msg1036989 date=1263819757]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38502.msg1036985#msg1036985 date=1263819608]
I would be nice to hear Gerrard come out and state his intentions. I understand if he wants to go, though I suspect much of this is speculation surrounding last weeks spat. Either way, it's not helping a club that's already in crisis.
[/quote]
What spat?
[/quote]
Apparently there was a kickoff at half time during the Reading game, Gerrard had an argument with Pellegrino and Rafa 'allegedly' suspended Gerrard on the spot. The club have denied the suspension but there are rumours Gerrard said he'd never play for Rafa again.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38502.msg1036985#msg1036985 date=1263819608]
I would be nice to hear Gerrard come out and state his intentions. I understand if he wants to go, though I suspect much of this is speculation surrounding last weeks spat. Either way, it's not helping a club that's already in crisis.
[/quote]
What spat?
[/quote]
Apparently there was a kickoff at half time during the Reading game, Gerrard had an argument with Pellegrino and Rafa 'allegedly' suspended Gerrard on the spot. The club have denied the suspension but there are rumours Gerrard said he'd never play for Rafa again.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38502.msg1036992#msg1036992 date=1263819902]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38502.msg1036989#msg1036989 date=1263819757]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38502.msg1036985#msg1036985 date=1263819608]
I would be nice to hear Gerrard come out and state his intentions. I understand if he wants to go, though I suspect much of this is speculation surrounding last weeks spat. Either way, it's not helping a club that's already in crisis.
[/quote]
What spat?
[/quote]
Apparently there was a kickoff at half time during the Reading game, Gerrard had an argument with Pellegrino and Rafa 'allegedly' suspended Gerrard on the spot. The club have denied the suspension but there are rumours Gerrard said he'd never play for Rafa again.
[/quote]
*shocked*
I had no idea. So according to this version of events, Gerrard's not really injured?
(I realise it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt)
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38502.msg1036989#msg1036989 date=1263819757]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38502.msg1036985#msg1036985 date=1263819608]
I would be nice to hear Gerrard come out and state his intentions. I understand if he wants to go, though I suspect much of this is speculation surrounding last weeks spat. Either way, it's not helping a club that's already in crisis.
[/quote]
What spat?
[/quote]
Apparently there was a kickoff at half time during the Reading game, Gerrard had an argument with Pellegrino and Rafa 'allegedly' suspended Gerrard on the spot. The club have denied the suspension but there are rumours Gerrard said he'd never play for Rafa again.
[/quote]
*shocked*
I had no idea. So according to this version of events, Gerrard's not really injured?
(I realise it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt)
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38502.msg1036938#msg1036938 date=1263817390]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38502.msg1036932#msg1036932 date=1263816597]
I would honestly be heartbroken if Gerrard left.
[/quote]
So would I but he's a player who relies on his heart so much and, if his heart's not in it anymore, we may as well get what we can. As for the captaincy debate it's not just about how he plays personally but it's how he leads both on and the pitch - physcially, verbally, motivationally. I'm sure he's feeling dejected. We all are.
In fact, I'm sick of hearing how badly players are feeling or how upset this person makes them or someone else makes them. How the fuck do they think WE feel ? The fans. We're fucking GUTTED at the moment about what's going on. I'm having to physically drag myself the match Anita. It comes to something when a cup of tea and watching fucking Eastenders seems a better option than going to the game, freezing my bollocks off and to watch us perform like a bunch of hapless and heartless idiots. WE'RE the lifeblood of this club, not the players. We're the one constant of this club until the day we stop breathing. We're the ones who spend money we can't really afford supporting a team through thick and thin - a team that's giving very little back before going home to their lives of currently unjustified luxury, fortune and without any worries. We're the ones who it pains most. I'm not saying it's doesn't hurt them - I'm sure for many it really does. But for lots of fans Liverpool represents hope and the team, manager and fuckwits of owners are denying the fans that at the moment. It fucking hurts. I've supported this team all my life and been a season ticket holder for nearly 20 years and for the first time in my life I find myself questioning why I'm doing it. I really am. I've always clung on to hope that we'll turn around but this time feels like we're at a real watershed. The top of the hill. We'll either get over it or plummet sharply downwards.
[/quote]
I've got no doubt you love the club, Sunny and you'll love it to your dying day; but I would still class that as one of the most selfish posts I've ever read.
Yes, as a fan I'm utterly gutted by this season and what has become of it. I'm sickened by some of the performances I've watched on the field this season - not in terms of quality but in terms of heart, passion and desire. I'm shattered by a manager who has, by and large, steadfastly refused to learn and change for six years. But, all things being equal, I'm going to watch, support and cheer the team on for the next 50 years +; players like Gerrard have a window of 10 years, maybe 14 years at a stretch to achieve everything they can in their careers. We sit back in our seats, eat another piece of cake, take another drink or look for a burger and demand they give their souls - nothing less will suffice.
There are a number of players who have well and truly earned the right to demand that the club live up to expectations and fulfill some of the inferred promises that saw him commit his career and life to that club. Right at the very top of this list sits Steven Gerrard.
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38502.msg1036932#msg1036932 date=1263816597]
I would honestly be heartbroken if Gerrard left.
[/quote]
So would I but he's a player who relies on his heart so much and, if his heart's not in it anymore, we may as well get what we can. As for the captaincy debate it's not just about how he plays personally but it's how he leads both on and the pitch - physcially, verbally, motivationally. I'm sure he's feeling dejected. We all are.
In fact, I'm sick of hearing how badly players are feeling or how upset this person makes them or someone else makes them. How the fuck do they think WE feel ? The fans. We're fucking GUTTED at the moment about what's going on. I'm having to physically drag myself the match Anita. It comes to something when a cup of tea and watching fucking Eastenders seems a better option than going to the game, freezing my bollocks off and to watch us perform like a bunch of hapless and heartless idiots. WE'RE the lifeblood of this club, not the players. We're the one constant of this club until the day we stop breathing. We're the ones who spend money we can't really afford supporting a team through thick and thin - a team that's giving very little back before going home to their lives of currently unjustified luxury, fortune and without any worries. We're the ones who it pains most. I'm not saying it's doesn't hurt them - I'm sure for many it really does. But for lots of fans Liverpool represents hope and the team, manager and fuckwits of owners are denying the fans that at the moment. It fucking hurts. I've supported this team all my life and been a season ticket holder for nearly 20 years and for the first time in my life I find myself questioning why I'm doing it. I really am. I've always clung on to hope that we'll turn around but this time feels like we're at a real watershed. The top of the hill. We'll either get over it or plummet sharply downwards.
[/quote]
I've got no doubt you love the club, Sunny and you'll love it to your dying day; but I would still class that as one of the most selfish posts I've ever read.
Yes, as a fan I'm utterly gutted by this season and what has become of it. I'm sickened by some of the performances I've watched on the field this season - not in terms of quality but in terms of heart, passion and desire. I'm shattered by a manager who has, by and large, steadfastly refused to learn and change for six years. But, all things being equal, I'm going to watch, support and cheer the team on for the next 50 years +; players like Gerrard have a window of 10 years, maybe 14 years at a stretch to achieve everything they can in their careers. We sit back in our seats, eat another piece of cake, take another drink or look for a burger and demand they give their souls - nothing less will suffice.
There are a number of players who have well and truly earned the right to demand that the club live up to expectations and fulfill some of the inferred promises that saw him commit his career and life to that club. Right at the very top of this list sits Steven Gerrard.
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38502.msg1036993#msg1036993 date=1263819927]
There's a long list of people who should get the hell away from our club. Steven Gerrard should be no where near that list. Simple as.
[/quote]
Yah, I somehow don't think he'll be leaving. Let's rephrase, I hope he won't be leaving.
There's a long list of people who should get the hell away from our club. Steven Gerrard should be no where near that list. Simple as.
[/quote]
Yah, I somehow don't think he'll be leaving. Let's rephrase, I hope he won't be leaving.
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38502.msg1036997#msg1036997 date=1263820072]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38502.msg1036992#msg1036992 date=1263819902]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38502.msg1036989#msg1036989 date=1263819757]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38502.msg1036985#msg1036985 date=1263819608]
I would be nice to hear Gerrard come out and state his intentions. I understand if he wants to go, though I suspect much of this is speculation surrounding last weeks spat. Either way, it's not helping a club that's already in crisis.
[/quote]
What spat?
[/quote]
Apparently there was a kickoff at half time during the Reading game, Gerrard had an argument with Pellegrino and Rafa 'allegedly' suspended Gerrard on the spot. The club have denied the suspension but there are rumours Gerrard said he'd never play for Rafa again.
[/quote]
*shocked*
I had no idea. So according to this version of events, Gerrard's not really injured?
(I realise it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt)
[/quote]
I don't mean to get carried away with this, but I did think it was strange the way Babel was brought on. Surely if Gerrard was injured they would have known that at the start of the half time break and got Babel to warm up. Instead he was hurried on just before the second half kicked off without any warm up. It did make it appear unplanned.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38502.msg1036992#msg1036992 date=1263819902]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38502.msg1036989#msg1036989 date=1263819757]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38502.msg1036985#msg1036985 date=1263819608]
I would be nice to hear Gerrard come out and state his intentions. I understand if he wants to go, though I suspect much of this is speculation surrounding last weeks spat. Either way, it's not helping a club that's already in crisis.
[/quote]
What spat?
[/quote]
Apparently there was a kickoff at half time during the Reading game, Gerrard had an argument with Pellegrino and Rafa 'allegedly' suspended Gerrard on the spot. The club have denied the suspension but there are rumours Gerrard said he'd never play for Rafa again.
[/quote]
*shocked*
I had no idea. So according to this version of events, Gerrard's not really injured?
(I realise it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt)
[/quote]
I don't mean to get carried away with this, but I did think it was strange the way Babel was brought on. Surely if Gerrard was injured they would have known that at the start of the half time break and got Babel to warm up. Instead he was hurried on just before the second half kicked off without any warm up. It did make it appear unplanned.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38502.msg1036990#msg1036990 date=1263819807]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38502.msg1036986#msg1036986 date=1263819695]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38502.msg1036970#msg1036970 date=1263818868]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38502.msg1036967#msg1036967 date=1263818752]
£30m-£40m would soften the blow for our soon to be 30 year old captain.
[/quote]
You reckon? It'd either be a drop in the ocean of our debt repayments, or Benitez would waste it on a crocked midfielder and two pedestrian wingers.
The only way it would do us any good is if it were used to pay off the manager's 4-year contract and bring in someone who can lift the club again.
[/quote]
Yes i do.
I think you're also fully aware that other options would be available to us besides the 3 you stated.
[/quote]
I don't know. Put it in these terms...
Would you be happy if Gerrard's transfer fee had been spent on Aquilani and Johnson?
[/quote]
At this moment in time of course not Mark. If you'd of said Xabi and Torres though, then i'd take it in a heartbeat.
The fact is that Gerrard is nearly 30 and seems to be picking up more and more injuries. Finances are obviously an issue, so if a bid of £30-£40m came in we should seriously consider it.
As a fan i'd only be open to it if all the money was going to be reinvested into our squad.
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38502.msg1036986#msg1036986 date=1263819695]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38502.msg1036970#msg1036970 date=1263818868]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38502.msg1036967#msg1036967 date=1263818752]
£30m-£40m would soften the blow for our soon to be 30 year old captain.
[/quote]
You reckon? It'd either be a drop in the ocean of our debt repayments, or Benitez would waste it on a crocked midfielder and two pedestrian wingers.
The only way it would do us any good is if it were used to pay off the manager's 4-year contract and bring in someone who can lift the club again.
[/quote]
Yes i do.
I think you're also fully aware that other options would be available to us besides the 3 you stated.
[/quote]
I don't know. Put it in these terms...
Would you be happy if Gerrard's transfer fee had been spent on Aquilani and Johnson?
[/quote]
At this moment in time of course not Mark. If you'd of said Xabi and Torres though, then i'd take it in a heartbeat.
The fact is that Gerrard is nearly 30 and seems to be picking up more and more injuries. Finances are obviously an issue, so if a bid of £30-£40m came in we should seriously consider it.
As a fan i'd only be open to it if all the money was going to be reinvested into our squad.
[quote author=ILD link=topic=38502.msg1037015#msg1037015 date=1263820816]
Gerrard has to be injured. Rafa is in a mini crisis and would love to have Gerrard playing to help get 3 points. Would he risk suspending him for playing? Doubt it.
[/quote]
I'd like to believe that, but it's not the first time Rafa's made decisions to simply make a point.
Gerrard has to be injured. Rafa is in a mini crisis and would love to have Gerrard playing to help get 3 points. Would he risk suspending him for playing? Doubt it.
[/quote]
I'd like to believe that, but it's not the first time Rafa's made decisions to simply make a point.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=38502.msg1036998#msg1036998 date=1263820085]
I've got no doubt you love the club, Sunny and you'll love it to your dying day; but I would still class that as one of the most selfish posts I've ever read.
Yes, as a fan I'm utterly gutted by this season and what has become of it. I'm sickened by some of the performances I've watched on the field this season - not in terms of quality but in terms of heart, passion and desire. I'm shattered by a manager who has, by and large, steadfastly refused to learn and change for six years. But, all things being equal, I'm going to watch, support and cheer the team on for the next 50 years +; players like Gerrard have a window of 10 years, maybe 14 years at a stretch to achieve everything they can in their careers. We sit back in our seats, eat another piece of cake, take another drink or look for a burger and demand they give their souls - nothing less will suffice.
There are a number of players who have well and truly earned the right to demand that the club live up to expectations and fulfill some of the inferred promises that saw him commit his career and life to that club. Right at the very top of this list sits Steven Gerrard.
[/quote]
There's nothing selfish in demanding the players, manager and club give their absolute all for us Wizadry - why should we expect any less? You're right I will support this club until my dying day. I know that. And you're right that Steven Gerrard has earnt the right to demand the club does it's best. Absolutely he's at the top of the list. Many of us in our respective careers have had to put up with with false promises but you can either pull your socks up and get on with it or wallow in self-pity. And that's a reference to the team as a whole. I don't believe most of the rumours about Gerrard anyway - I think they're probably bollocks.
I do question, and have done on several occasions this season, why the fucking hell I'm sitting in the cold and actually paying to watch a team of players underperform again and again and again - putting in performaces that are dull,insipid and boring dross. I know the answer and I know I'll continue to do it but it doesn't stop me asking why. You've got no right to call me selfish - I've invested myself totally into LFC and I expect the playing staff and board to do it as well. If you accept any less then you're accepting mediocrity. We're better than that or at least should be. When I see something wrong I'm going to call it. And Steven Gerrard, amongst many others, has not been himself this year in his capacity as a player and the club captain. This thread is about Gerrard hence why I'm discussing him here. I'm not singling him out.
I've got no doubt you love the club, Sunny and you'll love it to your dying day; but I would still class that as one of the most selfish posts I've ever read.
Yes, as a fan I'm utterly gutted by this season and what has become of it. I'm sickened by some of the performances I've watched on the field this season - not in terms of quality but in terms of heart, passion and desire. I'm shattered by a manager who has, by and large, steadfastly refused to learn and change for six years. But, all things being equal, I'm going to watch, support and cheer the team on for the next 50 years +; players like Gerrard have a window of 10 years, maybe 14 years at a stretch to achieve everything they can in their careers. We sit back in our seats, eat another piece of cake, take another drink or look for a burger and demand they give their souls - nothing less will suffice.
There are a number of players who have well and truly earned the right to demand that the club live up to expectations and fulfill some of the inferred promises that saw him commit his career and life to that club. Right at the very top of this list sits Steven Gerrard.
[/quote]
There's nothing selfish in demanding the players, manager and club give their absolute all for us Wizadry - why should we expect any less? You're right I will support this club until my dying day. I know that. And you're right that Steven Gerrard has earnt the right to demand the club does it's best. Absolutely he's at the top of the list. Many of us in our respective careers have had to put up with with false promises but you can either pull your socks up and get on with it or wallow in self-pity. And that's a reference to the team as a whole. I don't believe most of the rumours about Gerrard anyway - I think they're probably bollocks.
I do question, and have done on several occasions this season, why the fucking hell I'm sitting in the cold and actually paying to watch a team of players underperform again and again and again - putting in performaces that are dull,insipid and boring dross. I know the answer and I know I'll continue to do it but it doesn't stop me asking why. You've got no right to call me selfish - I've invested myself totally into LFC and I expect the playing staff and board to do it as well. If you accept any less then you're accepting mediocrity. We're better than that or at least should be. When I see something wrong I'm going to call it. And Steven Gerrard, amongst many others, has not been himself this year in his capacity as a player and the club captain. This thread is about Gerrard hence why I'm discussing him here. I'm not singling him out.
Does anyone else believe that the very first post is made up tosh by unhappy people as a result of poor performances and that must include dressing room spats and star players wanting to leave?
Or is it just me?
Or is it just me?
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38502.msg1037009#msg1037009 date=1263820683]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38502.msg1036997#msg1036997 date=1263820072]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38502.msg1036992#msg1036992 date=1263819902]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38502.msg1036989#msg1036989 date=1263819757]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38502.msg1036985#msg1036985 date=1263819608]
I would be nice to hear Gerrard come out and state his intentions. I understand if he wants to go, though I suspect much of this is speculation surrounding last weeks spat. Either way, it's not helping a club that's already in crisis.
[/quote]
What spat?
[/quote]
Apparently there was a kickoff at half time during the Reading game, Gerrard had an argument with Pellegrino and Rafa 'allegedly' suspended Gerrard on the spot. The club have denied the suspension but there are rumours Gerrard said he'd never play for Rafa again.
[/quote]
*shocked*
I had no idea. So according to this version of events, Gerrard's not really injured?
(I realise it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt)
[/quote]
I don't mean to get carried away with this, but I did think it was strange the way Babel was brought on. Surely if Gerrard was injured they would have known that at the start of the half time break and got Babel to warm up. Instead he was hurried on just before the second half kicked off without any warm up. It did make it appear unplanned.
[/quote]
A good point.
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38502.msg1036997#msg1036997 date=1263820072]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38502.msg1036992#msg1036992 date=1263819902]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38502.msg1036989#msg1036989 date=1263819757]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38502.msg1036985#msg1036985 date=1263819608]
I would be nice to hear Gerrard come out and state his intentions. I understand if he wants to go, though I suspect much of this is speculation surrounding last weeks spat. Either way, it's not helping a club that's already in crisis.
[/quote]
What spat?
[/quote]
Apparently there was a kickoff at half time during the Reading game, Gerrard had an argument with Pellegrino and Rafa 'allegedly' suspended Gerrard on the spot. The club have denied the suspension but there are rumours Gerrard said he'd never play for Rafa again.
[/quote]
*shocked*
I had no idea. So according to this version of events, Gerrard's not really injured?
(I realise it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt)
[/quote]
I don't mean to get carried away with this, but I did think it was strange the way Babel was brought on. Surely if Gerrard was injured they would have known that at the start of the half time break and got Babel to warm up. Instead he was hurried on just before the second half kicked off without any warm up. It did make it appear unplanned.
[/quote]
A good point.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38502.msg1037022#msg1037022 date=1263821021]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=38502.msg1036998#msg1036998 date=1263820085]
I've got no doubt you love the club, Sunny and you'll love it to your dying day; but I would still class that as one of the most selfish posts I've ever read.
Yes, as a fan I'm utterly gutted by this season and what has become of it. I'm sickened by some of the performances I've watched on the field this season - not in terms of quality but in terms of heart, passion and desire. I'm shattered by a manager who has, by and large, steadfastly refused to learn and change for six years. But, all things being equal, I'm going to watch, support and cheer the team on for the next 50 years +; players like Gerrard have a window of 10 years, maybe 14 years at a stretch to achieve everything they can in their careers. We sit back in our seats, eat another piece of cake, take another drink or look for a burger and demand they give their souls - nothing less will suffice.
There are a number of players who have well and truly earned the right to demand that the club live up to expectations and fulfill some of the inferred promises that saw him commit his career and life to that club. Right at the very top of this list sits Steven Gerrard.
[/quote]
There's nothing selfish in demanding the players, manager and club give their absolute all for us Wizadry - why should we expect any less? You're right I will support this club until my dying day. I know that. And you're right that Steven Gerrard has earnt the right to demand the club does it's best. Absolutely he's at the top of the list. Many of us in our respective careers have had to put up with with false promises but you can either pull your socks up and get on with it or wallow in self-pity. And that's a reference to the team as a whole. I don't believe most of the rumours about Gerrard anyway - I think they're probably bollocks.
I do question, and have done on several occasions this season, why the fucking hell I'm sitting in the cold and actually paying to watch a team of players underperform again and again and again - putting in performaces that are dull,insipid and boring dross. I know the answer and I know I'll continue to do it but it doesn't stop me asking why. You've got no right to call me selfish - I've invested myself totally into LFC and I expect the playing staff and board to do it as well. If you accept any less then you're accepting mediocrity. We're better than that or at least should be. When I see something wrong I'm going to call it. And Steven Gerrard, amongst many others, has not been himself this year in his capacity as a player and the club captain. This thread is about Gerrard hence why I'm discussing him here. I'm not singling him out.
[/quote]
Your earlier post, Sunny, focused on 'forget the players and how they feel - how about the fans who are gutted'; I've paraphrased that but I don't think unfairly. As you also point out this is a thread focused on Gerrard so you'll forgive me if I think you're sick of hearing that Gerrard is unhappy about the situation.
I'm sick of hearing Kop legends like Gerrard reduced to a piece of furniture or some other inanimate object to be used before being discarded when his usefullness is exausted. I see enough of that attitude from our manager.
Of course the fans are important - they are, as Shanks always said, one part part of the holy three. However, there are varying levels of equality in football and Gerrard is at the top of the equality charts. He's given more than everyone else and, while the fans are important, Gerrard is the icon, the blood of Liverpool on the field. He is our absolute connection to true greatness and he deserves success in every way - as such he's suffered more than anyone else in this tragedy. The first person I want to find that success is Gerrard - no matter how badly the fans are feeling.
Part of this may be I'm just in the mood for a brawl right now but it doesn't change my sentiment in the slightest.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=38502.msg1036998#msg1036998 date=1263820085]
I've got no doubt you love the club, Sunny and you'll love it to your dying day; but I would still class that as one of the most selfish posts I've ever read.
Yes, as a fan I'm utterly gutted by this season and what has become of it. I'm sickened by some of the performances I've watched on the field this season - not in terms of quality but in terms of heart, passion and desire. I'm shattered by a manager who has, by and large, steadfastly refused to learn and change for six years. But, all things being equal, I'm going to watch, support and cheer the team on for the next 50 years +; players like Gerrard have a window of 10 years, maybe 14 years at a stretch to achieve everything they can in their careers. We sit back in our seats, eat another piece of cake, take another drink or look for a burger and demand they give their souls - nothing less will suffice.
There are a number of players who have well and truly earned the right to demand that the club live up to expectations and fulfill some of the inferred promises that saw him commit his career and life to that club. Right at the very top of this list sits Steven Gerrard.
[/quote]
There's nothing selfish in demanding the players, manager and club give their absolute all for us Wizadry - why should we expect any less? You're right I will support this club until my dying day. I know that. And you're right that Steven Gerrard has earnt the right to demand the club does it's best. Absolutely he's at the top of the list. Many of us in our respective careers have had to put up with with false promises but you can either pull your socks up and get on with it or wallow in self-pity. And that's a reference to the team as a whole. I don't believe most of the rumours about Gerrard anyway - I think they're probably bollocks.
I do question, and have done on several occasions this season, why the fucking hell I'm sitting in the cold and actually paying to watch a team of players underperform again and again and again - putting in performaces that are dull,insipid and boring dross. I know the answer and I know I'll continue to do it but it doesn't stop me asking why. You've got no right to call me selfish - I've invested myself totally into LFC and I expect the playing staff and board to do it as well. If you accept any less then you're accepting mediocrity. We're better than that or at least should be. When I see something wrong I'm going to call it. And Steven Gerrard, amongst many others, has not been himself this year in his capacity as a player and the club captain. This thread is about Gerrard hence why I'm discussing him here. I'm not singling him out.
[/quote]
Your earlier post, Sunny, focused on 'forget the players and how they feel - how about the fans who are gutted'; I've paraphrased that but I don't think unfairly. As you also point out this is a thread focused on Gerrard so you'll forgive me if I think you're sick of hearing that Gerrard is unhappy about the situation.
I'm sick of hearing Kop legends like Gerrard reduced to a piece of furniture or some other inanimate object to be used before being discarded when his usefullness is exausted. I see enough of that attitude from our manager.
Of course the fans are important - they are, as Shanks always said, one part part of the holy three. However, there are varying levels of equality in football and Gerrard is at the top of the equality charts. He's given more than everyone else and, while the fans are important, Gerrard is the icon, the blood of Liverpool on the field. He is our absolute connection to true greatness and he deserves success in every way - as such he's suffered more than anyone else in this tragedy. The first person I want to find that success is Gerrard - no matter how badly the fans are feeling.
Part of this may be I'm just in the mood for a brawl right now but it doesn't change my sentiment in the slightest.
A good post - yours always are - but I can't agree with it and I'm absolutely with Sunny on this. With respect, you come perilously close in that post to suggesting Gerrard's bigger than the club. Well, he isn't, not even in our current situation. For all that Gerrard has unquestionably given to LFC, he's had a dickens of a lot back in terms of money and glory. As long as he wears the shirt, and I hope to goodness he always will, I expect 100% from him as from every other player, and (for however understandable reasons) we haven't seen that from him this season.
Sorry but that's all a bit overly sentimental. Gerrard deserves success - yes. He's given more than everyone else - on the pitch, yes but I'd say so has Carragher. And Reina. Let's not confuse what you give with what ability you have to fuel that with. I don't want Gerrard to go I've said that. I've said if he wants to go and he's unhappy then we might as well get what we can for him. I've not referred to him as any kind of inanimate object. I've said he's a Liverpool legend and I've sung his praises. I love the lad and I do not want to see him go. I repeat - I'd rather Rafa and the owners go
I'm not going to get caught up in the idea that Steven Gerrard IS Liverpool Football Club though. and he's beyond any kind of criticism. Is he fuck. He's a massively important part of it. The lads a brilliant player we know that. He's not shown that this year for whatever reasons though - I'm failing to see how you cannot see that. AGAIN HE IS NOT ALONE IN THIS THOUGH OTHER PLAYERS HAVE BEEN SHIT TOO. He is one of the greatest contribution to any success we've had in the last 10 years I agree. But if you think one player means more to this club than the fans you're wrong. The club exists because of the fans - simple as that. No fans - the football club ceases to exist although we all know that'll never happen. You make it sound like we're here to serve Steven Gerrard. He's a football player,albeit a fantastic one, not a god.
I'm not going to get caught up in the idea that Steven Gerrard IS Liverpool Football Club though. and he's beyond any kind of criticism. Is he fuck. He's a massively important part of it. The lads a brilliant player we know that. He's not shown that this year for whatever reasons though - I'm failing to see how you cannot see that. AGAIN HE IS NOT ALONE IN THIS THOUGH OTHER PLAYERS HAVE BEEN SHIT TOO. He is one of the greatest contribution to any success we've had in the last 10 years I agree. But if you think one player means more to this club than the fans you're wrong. The club exists because of the fans - simple as that. No fans - the football club ceases to exist although we all know that'll never happen. You make it sound like we're here to serve Steven Gerrard. He's a football player,albeit a fantastic one, not a god.
Yep.
That and the Bunny post sum it up.
How can Gerrard be happy when he's lumbered with a manager who thinks he can challenge for a title with Lucas Leiva in midfield. Or Insua at left-back. Or Eggnog as a back-up striker.
He would be well within his rights to feel like so many of us do as fans: desolated and despairing.
- Status
