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"I'm just not a fan"

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[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35584.msg936172#msg936172 date=1251798615]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35584.msg936168#msg936168 date=1251798362]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35584.msg936166#msg936166 date=1251798204]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35584.msg936160#msg936160 date=1251797993]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35584.msg936153#msg936153 date=1251797496]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35584.msg936151#msg936151 date=1251797467]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35584.msg936147#msg936147 date=1251797177]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35584.msg936115#msg936115 date=1251794496]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35584.msg936111#msg936111 date=1251794041]
fuck it, just one more and I'm done;

gerrard should trust his teams mates more, if we are struggling he should hold his position and wait for the ball to come to him, yes yes, he is captain fantastic blah blah but he is no longer a midfielder and should stop acting like one, it leaves torres horrible isolated making it a piece of fucking piece to mark him out of the game

seriously after the game where gerrard gave away a penalty, if carra had looked him in the eye and said 'what the FUCK were you doing in our penalty area?' what would have been his defense?
[/quote]Utter myopic shite. Why am i not suprised.
[/quote]

I'm sorry but which part of what I wrote is rubbish?
[/quote]All of it.
[/quote]

whatever.
[/quote]Neil. You contend that youre 'just not a fan' of Gerrard basically because he works hard for the team. Because he goes deep to help us when were struggling. Because he tries to be captain fantastic to dig us out of holes. You pick a game against Villa where he had a shocker to highlight that. You ignore the fa cup and champions league finals and the 100 other games where him doing EXACTLY that has saved our asses. You ignore the fact that he and Torres almost always dovetail amazingly together and highlight the occassions when they dont, ignoring the 100 goals/assists they have as a partnership in 2 years.
Its just utter total complete mindless shite neil.
And although you will know this now and realise (wish) you shouldnt have posted it, youre just the kind of cat to keep arguing the toss. So by all means carry on.
[/quote]

who said I'm not a fan? I just posted my thoughts on gerrard, alright this thread is for 'I'm not a fan' comments but don't take my comments as slagging of gerrard nothing could be further from the truth.
also if I picked out the good parts of gerrard's game I'd be here all game, I just commented on where I think he can improve (unless of course you think gerrard is perfect).
[/quote]I think hes beyond nitpicking and myopia. Yes.
[/quote]

so there is no area of gerrard's game that can improve. so why was rafa commenting on gerrard's game not even one week ago? look I don't want this turning into an arguement about gerrard's ability like I think he is rubbish or something, I think he is the best forward in the world but I still think he can improve, if you don't, fine, we'll leave it at that.
[/quote]Look. The question in the thread was 'who do you just not like' you named STEVEN FUCKING GERRARD and to try and highlight your reason as 'he drops deep sometimes and isolates torres' and you pick a couple of examples. Youve ignored the rest of the last 10 years when hes dug us consistently out of the fire.
But youve spent the last 5 post backpeddling which is good. It shows you know youre chatting shit.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35584.msg936177#msg936177 date=1251798891]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35584.msg936175#msg936175 date=1251798747]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35584.msg936171#msg936171 date=1251798540]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35584.msg936167#msg936167 date=1251798312]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35584.msg936163#msg936163 date=1251798108]
This is a tricky question anyway, the only player I can kind of agree on is Ryan's point about Masher.

I know people say he's 'one of the best in his position', blah blah, but for £18m I just seem to think we should be getting something more than what we're getting.

Hamann used to get a hard time, but I think he was a far better footballer, even if he was less mobile, he was certainly more intelligent as a player.
[/quote]

mark what exactly did didi do that masher doesn't? hamann was a better passer of the break (argubly) better up breaking up attacks but beyond that they are doing the exactly same job.
[/quote]

I just think he was better. Ok, we had his peak years from him and Masher is only young, but his passing, his ability to score the occasional blinder and just his general intelligence at reading the game puts him superior to our Argie.
[/quote]

didi read the game better, passed better, drew fouls when we were under the cosh better and scored some goals but imho masher covers the ground better and allows us to press the opposition better. I always went on about more mobility when didi was here, well that player is masher.
[/quote]

So fundamentally Masher is the better player because of better physical attributes?

I'm not saying I don't rate Masher, I just think that his role, while being very specialist also can be considered very limited.
[/quote]

it's not about the individual in itself its about how the individual works within the team and how the team works with the individual. I point I tried to make a million times when people thought I was slagging didi off (I personally thought he was terrific at his job) but to move to the next level I think you need individuals that help the team perform in a certain way and masher helps us defend higher up the pitch and press the opposition in a more aggressive manner.

it's like yossi and reira, yossi will absolutely no doubt in my mind score more goals that riera but reira will help the team play in a more competant manner. put it this way I wouldn't sway didi of 2001 for masher of today although I suspect many would.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35584.msg936179#msg936179 date=1251798948]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35584.msg936172#msg936172 date=1251798615]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35584.msg936168#msg936168 date=1251798362]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35584.msg936166#msg936166 date=1251798204]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35584.msg936160#msg936160 date=1251797993]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35584.msg936153#msg936153 date=1251797496]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35584.msg936151#msg936151 date=1251797467]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35584.msg936147#msg936147 date=1251797177]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35584.msg936115#msg936115 date=1251794496]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35584.msg936111#msg936111 date=1251794041]
fuck it, just one more and I'm done;

gerrard should trust his teams mates more, if we are struggling he should hold his position and wait for the ball to come to him, yes yes, he is captain fantastic blah blah but he is no longer a midfielder and should stop acting like one, it leaves torres horrible isolated making it a piece of fucking piece to mark him out of the game

seriously after the game where gerrard gave away a penalty, if carra had looked him in the eye and said 'what the FUCK were you doing in our penalty area?' what would have been his defense?
[/quote]Utter myopic shite. Why am i not suprised.
[/quote]

I'm sorry but which part of what I wrote is rubbish?
[/quote]All of it.
[/quote]

whatever.
[/quote]Neil. You contend that youre 'just not a fan' of Gerrard basically because he works hard for the team. Because he goes deep to help us when were struggling. Because he tries to be captain fantastic to dig us out of holes. You pick a game against Villa where he had a shocker to highlight that. You ignore the fa cup and champions league finals and the 100 other games where him doing EXACTLY that has saved our asses. You ignore the fact that he and Torres almost always dovetail amazingly together and highlight the occassions when they dont, ignoring the 100 goals/assists they have as a partnership in 2 years.
Its just utter total complete mindless shite neil.
And although you will know this now and realise (wish) you shouldnt have posted it, youre just the kind of cat to keep arguing the toss. So by all means carry on.
[/quote]

who said I'm not a fan? I just posted my thoughts on gerrard, alright this thread is for 'I'm not a fan' comments but don't take my comments as slagging of gerrard nothing could be further from the truth.
also if I picked out the good parts of gerrard's game I'd be here all game, I just commented on where I think he can improve (unless of course you think gerrard is perfect).
[/quote]I think hes beyond nitpicking and myopia. Yes.
[/quote]

so there is no area of gerrard's game that can improve. so why was rafa commenting on gerrard's game not even one week ago? look I don't want this turning into an arguement about gerrard's ability like I think he is rubbish or something, I think he is the best forward in the world but I still think he can improve, if you don't, fine, we'll leave it at that.
[/quote]Look. The question in the thread was 'who do you just not like' you named STEVEN FUCKING GERRARD and to try and highlight your reason as 'he drops deep sometimes and isolates torres' and you pick a couple of examples. Youve ignored the rest of the last 10 years when hes dug us consistently out of the fire.
But youve spent the last 5 post backpeddling which is good. It shows you know youre chatting shit.
[/quote]

my apologises for the misunderstanding then I certainly don't dislike gerrard. I stand by my comments though so I don't apologise for that also as I said in my previous comments if I listed gerrard's qualities I'd be here all day.
 
I am not a fan of Torres because sometimes he goes out wide. DOESN'T HE REALIZE THAT WITH EVERY SECOND HE SPENDS OUT THERE, WE LACK A STRIKER IN THE BOX?!?!?!?!?! (*)


* Please ignore the fact that football is a fluid game in which players change positions, cover each others runs and that this sort of interchange is fundamental to the game (which I clearly don't understand). Thanx.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=35584.msg936184#msg936184 date=1251799441]
I am not a fan of Torres because sometimes he goes out wide. DOESN'T HE REALIZE THAT WITH EVERY SECOND HE SPENDS OUT THERE, WE LACK A STRIKER IN THE BOX?!?!?!?!?! (*)


* Please ignore the fact that football is a fluid game in which players change positions, cover each others runs and that this sort of interchange is fundamental to the game (which I clearly don't understand). Thanx.
[/quote]

comments about gerrard are obviously a sore point so I'll leave it there I will close by saying far better people than myself (pros) have said gerrard leaves torres isolated and should remain more of a presence in the opposition half.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35584.msg936185#msg936185 date=1251799860]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=35584.msg936184#msg936184 date=1251799441]
I am not a fan of Torres because sometimes he goes out wide. DOESN'T HE REALIZE THAT WITH EVERY SECOND HE SPENDS OUT THERE, WE LACK A STRIKER IN THE BOX?!?!?!?!?! (*)


* Please ignore the fact that football is a fluid game in which players change positions, cover each others runs and that this sort of interchange is fundamental to the game (which I clearly don't understand). Thanx.
[/quote]

comments about gerrard are obviously a sore point so I'll leave it there I will close by saying far better people than myself (pros) have said gerrard leaves torres isolated and should remain more of a presence in the opposition half.
[/quote]

If that's the case then people should really point their criticism at the players behind Gerrard in midfield. If him dropping deep to receive the ball is such an issue, then perhaps the likes of Lucas and Masher should be supporting a bit higher up the pitch and both should have a bit more in their locker when it comes to forwards passing.
 
It's nothing to do with the fact that it's about Gerrard and everything to do with how you've decided to argue your point.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35584.msg936186#msg936186 date=1251800027]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35584.msg936185#msg936185 date=1251799860]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=35584.msg936184#msg936184 date=1251799441]
I am not a fan of Torres because sometimes he goes out wide. DOESN'T HE REALIZE THAT WITH EVERY SECOND HE SPENDS OUT THERE, WE LACK A STRIKER IN THE BOX?!?!?!?!?! (*)


* Please ignore the fact that football is a fluid game in which players change positions, cover each others runs and that this sort of interchange is fundamental to the game (which I clearly don't understand). Thanx.
[/quote]

comments about gerrard are obviously a sore point so I'll leave it there I will close by saying far better people than myself (pros) have said gerrard leaves torres isolated and should remain more of a presence in the opposition half.
[/quote]

If that's the case then people should really point their criticism at the players behind Gerrard in midfield. If him dropping deep to receive the ball is such an issue, then perhaps the likes of Lucas and Masher should be supporting a bit higher up the pitch and both should have a bit more in their locker when it comes to forwards passing.
[/quote]

this is of course correct, obviously if the midfielders give gerrard the ball faster and more consistantly the need to drop deep will be lessened but that goes without saying.
 
Mascherano also

I think he was overpriced, and his specialised/limited nature means he needs a superb footballer alongside him - which means Lucas bears the brunt of criticism when our midfield isn't functioning but Mascherano gets away with offering absolutely nothing over the half way line. I tolerated him him up until the Man United sending off, but I hated the protection and defence he got on here for it, and from Rafa. It was a disgrace and it cost us the game.

Since then I've disliked him, and nothing since then has made me change my mind, but served only to enforce my belief that he's just a bit of a gobby cunt.

I can also see Docs point about Carragher acting like a kid about the RB situation, but he's done so much for us, as has Gerrard, it makes minor gripes like that seem petty and insignificant.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35584.msg936222#msg936222 date=1251801375]
Mascherano also

I think he was overpriced, and his specialised/limited nature means he needs a superb footballer alongside him - which means Lucas bears the brunt of criticism when our midfield isn't functioning but Mascherano gets away with offering absolutely nothing over the half way line. I tolerated him him up until the Man United sending off, but I hated the protection and defence he got on here for it, and from Rafa. It was a disgrace and it cost us the game.

Since then I've disliked him, and nothing since then has made me change my mind, but served only to enforce my belief that he's just a bit of a gobby cunt.

I can also see Docs point about Carragher acting like a kid about the RB situation, but he's done so much for us, as has Gerrard, it makes minor gripes like that seem petty and insignificant.
[/quote]

Minor gripes aren't minor gripes if Carra gets to keep the CB position because he's gurned about it and Skrtel is put in instead. That is a gripe that costs us 3 points.

As I say, I still rate him as a necessity in our backline, but no player has the right to pick how he's going to be used. He's being paid by LFC to do whatever needs done. I've lost a bit of respect for him after last season.
 
[quote author=Stu link=topic=35584.msg936174#msg936174 date=1251798741]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35584.msg936155#msg936155 date=1251797795]
Can't believe all you idiots slagging off Carra and Gerrard. Well, I can believe it, because 6CM is infamously contrarian, but still... it's stupid and wrong.
[/quote]

You think Carraghers antics at Boro and WBA last year are beyond reproach?
[/quote]

Not at all. I criticised the Arbeloa thing at the time, and also his headbutt on Skrtel's chin. Everyone makes mistakes, and no one is beyond criticism. But to say 'I'm just not of a fan' of our most loyal and passionate and longserving player seems perverse in the extreme to me.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=35584.msg936230#msg936230 date=1251802032]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35584.msg936222#msg936222 date=1251801375]
Mascherano also

I think he was overpriced, and his specialised/limited nature means he needs a superb footballer alongside him - which means Lucas bears the brunt of criticism when our midfield isn't functioning but Mascherano gets away with offering absolutely nothing over the half way line. I tolerated him him up until the Man United sending off, but I hated the protection and defence he got on here for it, and from Rafa. It was a disgrace and it cost us the game.

Since then I've disliked him, and nothing since then has made me change my mind, but served only to enforce my belief that he's just a bit of a gobby cunt.

I can also see Docs point about Carragher acting like a kid about the RB situation, but he's done so much for us, as has Gerrard, it makes minor gripes like that seem petty and insignificant.
[/quote]

Minor gripes aren't minor gripes if Carra gets to keep the CB position because he's gurned about it and Skrtel is put in instead. That is a gripe that costs us 3 points.

As I say, I still rate him as a necessity in our backline, but no player has the right to pick how he's going to be used. He's being paid by LFC to do whatever needs done. I've lost a bit of respect for him after last season.
[/quote]

The Arbeloa incident wasn't great either, given Carra had been bailed out by him days earlier when he'd fallen over the ball.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=35584.msg936230#msg936230 date=1251802032]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35584.msg936222#msg936222 date=1251801375]
Mascherano also

I think he was overpriced, and his specialised/limited nature means he needs a superb footballer alongside him - which means Lucas bears the brunt of criticism when our midfield isn't functioning but Mascherano gets away with offering absolutely nothing over the half way line. I tolerated him him up until the Man United sending off, but I hated the protection and defence he got on here for it, and from Rafa. It was a disgrace and it cost us the game.

Since then I've disliked him, and nothing since then has made me change my mind, but served only to enforce my belief that he's just a bit of a gobby cunt.

I can also see Docs point about Carragher acting like a kid about the RB situation, but he's done so much for us, as has Gerrard, it makes minor gripes like that seem petty and insignificant.
[/quote]

Minor gripes aren't minor gripes if Carra gets to keep the CB position because he's gurned about it and Skrtel is put in instead. That is a gripe that costs us 3 points.

As I say, I still rate him as a necessity in our backline, but no player has the right to pick how he's going to be used. He's being paid by LFC to do whatever needs done. I've lost a bit of respect for him after last season.
[/quote]

I think Carra's point (correct me if I'm wrong) was that he's no longer fast and fit enough to play well at full-back. He didn't want to play there because he was worried he'd be a liability and cost the team points. Rafa could have chosen Darby, who was after all our reserve RB, but he went instead with Skrtel, who was rubbish in that position and did of course cost the team points. Is that Carra's fault? Would it have been Carra's fault if he'd agreed to play there and Downing had skinned him?
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35584.msg936231#msg936231 date=1251802056]
[quote author=Stu link=topic=35584.msg936174#msg936174 date=1251798741]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35584.msg936155#msg936155 date=1251797795]
Can't believe all you idiots slagging off Carra and Gerrard. Well, I can believe it, because 6CM is infamously contrarian, but still... it's stupid and wrong.
[/quote]

You think Carraghers antics at Boro and WBA last year are beyond reproach?
[/quote]

Not at all. I criticised the Arbeloa thing at the time, and also his headbutt on Skrtel's chin. Everyone makes mistakes, and no one is beyond criticism. But to say 'I'm just not of a fan' of our most loyal and passionate and longserving player seems perverse in the extreme to me.

[/quote]

Saying "I'm just not a fan" is extreme, and actually, it isn't accurate for me.

I'm just using this thread as a vehicle to say, you know what Carra, I think you let us down (by the standards he himself has set). But I'm disappointed in him, and don't have the same levels of respect that I once had.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35584.msg936239#msg936239 date=1251802382]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=35584.msg936230#msg936230 date=1251802032]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35584.msg936222#msg936222 date=1251801375]
Mascherano also

I think he was overpriced, and his specialised/limited nature means he needs a superb footballer alongside him - which means Lucas bears the brunt of criticism when our midfield isn't functioning but Mascherano gets away with offering absolutely nothing over the half way line. I tolerated him him up until the Man United sending off, but I hated the protection and defence he got on here for it, and from Rafa. It was a disgrace and it cost us the game.

Since then I've disliked him, and nothing since then has made me change my mind, but served only to enforce my belief that he's just a bit of a gobby cunt.

I can also see Docs point about Carragher acting like a kid about the RB situation, but he's done so much for us, as has Gerrard, it makes minor gripes like that seem petty and insignificant.
[/quote]

Minor gripes aren't minor gripes if Carra gets to keep the CB position because he's gurned about it and Skrtel is put in instead. That is a gripe that costs us 3 points.

As I say, I still rate him as a necessity in our backline, but no player has the right to pick how he's going to be used. He's being paid by LFC to do whatever needs done. I've lost a bit of respect for him after last season.
[/quote]

I think Carra's point (correct me if I'm wrong) was that he's no longer fast and fit enough to play well at full-back. He didn't want to play there because he was worried he'd be a liability and cost the team points. Rafa could have chosen Darby, who was after all our reserve RB, but he went instead with Skrtel, who was rubbish in that position and did of course cost the team points. Is that Carra's fault? Would it have been Carra's fault if he'd agreed to play there and Downing had skinned him?

[/quote]

Carra is much better in that position even now than Darby will ever be. As I say, he should do as he's fucking well told.
 
I never really rated Arbeloa very highly. He could do a job, but nothing more than that.

Riera is only okay in my opinion too

There are others I don't think much of - Lucas (though I think he can improve), N'gog, Voronin and Babel - but not being a big fan of these is hardly groundbreaking stuff
 
Kuyt. Never been a fan. Far too limited footballer.
At least he works hard unlike the useless Lucas.
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=35584.msg936261#msg936261 date=1251803923]
Kuyt. Never been a fan. Far too limited footballer.
At least he works hard unlike the useless Lucas.
[/quote]How can ANYONE 'not like' Kuyt.
Even in the days when he was shite, i still really 'liked' him.
He's fucking ace.
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=35584.msg936261#msg936261 date=1251803923]
Kuyt. Never been a fan. Far too limited footballer.
At least he works hard unlike the useless Lucas.
[/quote]

In what ways does Lucas not work hard? You swear he wasn't trying. Fair enough, many think he isn't good enough for us but it's not like he isn't trying.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=35584.msg936268#msg936268 date=1251804485]
I never liked arbeloa or crouch
[/quote]

I always liked Crouch and wanted him to do well. He took such a battering on the site, it was like people who held such extreme views against him even hoped he would fail.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35584.msg936263#msg936263 date=1251804228]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=35584.msg936261#msg936261 date=1251803923]
Kuyt. Never been a fan. Far too limited footballer.
At least he works hard unlike the useless Lucas.
[/quote]How can ANYONE 'not like' Kuyt.
Even in the days when he was shite, i still really 'liked' him.
He's fucking ace.
[/quote]
Well its more about a football perspective. He was shite for far too long and the fact I liked Crouch didnt help.
The blame was lying somewhere else though...
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=35584.msg936268#msg936268 date=1251804485]
I never liked arbeloa or crouch
[/quote]

It's easy to criticise Arby when Johnson has come in and started as well as he has, but he was a solid full back who was rarely caught out.

Crouchy always put it in and had his important moments (biggest probably being the goal in the Cup against Man Utd). All in all he probably wasn't good enought to play for Liverpool, but we've had FAR worse players on the books at times.
 
Whats all these kneejerk reactions about Carra having a mare...
We attack and defend as a unit, if the 2 holding midfielders (esp. one of them) are not doing their job properly that leaves our centre backs very exposed.
Lucas is THE problem of this team.
 
I love them all.


LIV ERP OOL Liverpool FC

YNWA

Anyway, I'm out of here. It's the old anniversary and I'm meant to be taking the missus out for the day. 20 effing years!!!
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=35584.msg936296#msg936296 date=1251805645]
Whats all these kneejerk reactions about Carra having a mare...
We attack and defend as a unit, if the 2 holding midfielders (esp. one of them) are not doing their job properly that leaves our centre backs very exposed.
Lucas is THE problem of this team.
[/quote]

our inability to defend set peices is lucas' fault?
is lucas to blame for world hunger?
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35584.msg936167#msg936167 date=1251798312]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35584.msg936163#msg936163 date=1251798108]
This is a tricky question anyway, the only player I can kind of agree on is Ryan's point about Masher.

I know people say he's 'one of the best in his position', blah blah, but for £18m I just seem to think we should be getting something more than what we're getting.

Hamann used to get a hard time, but I think he was a far better footballer, even if he was less mobile, he was certainly more intelligent as a player.
[/quote]

mark what exactly did didi do that masher doesn't? hamann was a better passer of the break (argubly) better up breaking up attacks but beyond that they are doing the exactly same job.
[/quote]

I was a big Didi fan and some aspects of his game were better than Mascher's, but no way was he better at breaking attacks up. Our tremendous record against the other teams in the top four last season was built largely on the platform Mascher gave us by monstering their respective midfields. If (as was suggested earlier this summer) Mascher winds up leaving next summer, we will miss him at least as much as we're missing Alonso.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35584.msg936303#msg936303 date=1251806031]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=35584.msg936296#msg936296 date=1251805645]
Whats all these kneejerk reactions about Carra having a mare...
We attack and defend as a unit, if the 2 holding midfielders (esp. one of them) are not doing their job properly that leaves our centre backs very exposed.
Lucas is THE problem of this team.
[/quote]

our inability to defend set peices is lucas' fault?
is lucas to blame for world hunger?
[/quote]
Its obvious the 4-2-3-1 doesnt work with Lucas. He plays deeper than Alonso. Result: the team is completely unbalanced, Gerrard has to drift back and leaves Torres alone up front.
Well same story as Kuyt, thats not their fault if they're playing
 
I've been told by stewards that gerrard is a cunt with a holier than thou attitude. Regardless of his ability I don't like someone who allegedly pokes someone in the face with a crutch too. Allegedly ..
 
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