Ignore the whole Roy is our manager bit

[jexykrodic]

[quote author=Portly link=topic=43150.msg1232835#msg1232835 date=1292237036]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=43150.msg1232819#msg1232819 date=1292235712]I see no reason why a much better manager couldn't have earned us enough points for a top four position.
[/quote]

There's a lot of delusional stuff flying around at the moment. How many players from our squad would get into the teams of United, Chelsea, Arsenal or City? Torres, Gerrard and Reina. That's about it. Certainly not Joe Cole on current form. No other team in the Premier League has a player as poor as Dirk playing wide right.

Hodgson has been dealt a very bad hand. He was foolish to accept the job in the first place.
[/quote]

You've tried very hard to deflect criticism from Roy Hodgson but sometimes you have to be honest with yourself and admit that he's just not cutting it. We all know we have the players to be much higher in the League and as such the buck has to stop somewhere and that is with the Manager. Had we been in this position, ever, under Rafa the whole site would be calling for his head. Roy Hodgson needs to be replaced, we have no form or formation or any targets set by this Manager - we are adrift.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Portly link=topic=43150.msg1232835#msg1232835 date=1292237036]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=43150.msg1232819#msg1232819 date=1292235712]I see no reason why a much better manager couldn't have earned us enough points for a top four position.
[/quote]

There's a lot of delusional stuff flying around at the moment. How many players from our squad would get into the teams of United, Chelsea, Arsenal or City? Torres, Gerrard and Reina. That's about it. Certainly not Joe Cole on current form. No other team in the Premier League has a player as poor as Dirk playing wide right.

Hodgson has been dealt a very bad hand. He was foolish to accept the job in the first place.
[/quote]

You're missing the point. No one is suggesting that we have a squad to match Utd or Chelsea. But the fact is, all of the top sides have been dropping points this season. The top four are separated by a single point. You only have to look at the home loss to Blackpool, the home draw with Sunderland, away losses to average Everton, Stoke, and Newcastle sides, to see that despite the disparity in terms of strength in depth, we could easily be occupying a top four position if we'd won the games that we should have.

 

[TheBunnyman]

I don't think Kuyt can play RW in a 442. Either he plays up front or in a 4231 or we drop him. He's just a dead weight in his current position.

I don't know what's going on with Torres. I keep thinking: 'if he scores a few goals, he'll get his confidence back and be ace again', or 'now his wife's given birth, he'll be flying again', and then he turns in a performance like Saturday's. Maybe he needs to be dropped? Wash and Babel played well together against Villa. Neither have Torres's quality, but both currently offer more spark and endeavour than he does.

Basically, I think we've got too many underperforming players who are sure of their place in the team no matter how they perform. They need a rocket up the arse.

 

[Woland]

Is there a serious argument that Bolton, Sunderland and Newcastle have better squads than us? Because halfway through the season they're higher up the league.

We're well better than this, the manager is to blame.

 

[Akakabooto]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=43150.msg1232846#msg1232846 date=1292238001]

You're missing the point. No one is suggesting that we have a squad to match Utd or Chelsea. But the fact is, all of the top sides have been dropping points this season. The top four are separated by a single point. You only have to look at the home loss to Blackpool, the home draw with Sunderland, away losses to average Everton, Stoke, and Newcastle sides, to see that despite the disparity in terms of strength in depth, we could easily be occupying a top four position if we'd won the games that we should have.
[/quote]

Yeah we would definitely be better off with a good manager, perhaps even top 4 atm because of all the freak results. However even if we were 4th I wouldn't still count us being in a title race. Pesam also claimed the problem isn't in the squad and I think it's way off the mark.

Also some posters seem to be misunderstanding what this thread is all about. The original poster wasn't claiming Roy isn't to blame but was trying to get a discussion going on about what else there is wrong at the moment.

 

[spider-Neil]

a simply way of looking at it is;

do we have the 9th worst squad in the league?
do Bolton, Sunderland and Newcastle have better squads than we do?

if the answer is 'no' to both questions then it's the managers fault.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

the players are not to blame at all?

 

[Rosco]

There's a perfect storm of shitness at the club.

 

[Dave G]

I started streaming the game on Saturday. Not long before the opening goal, Reina threw a ball out along the floor to Konchesky on the touchline. He promplty let it go right under his foot and out for a throw in to them. I switched off at that point. Anyone who doesn't think the manager bears the brunt of our current predicament is deluding themselves. He picks the players, he picks the tactics, he gives the motivational speech before they cross the touchline...if they then perform as ineptly as they do, and he doesn't change things, it is down to him.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Of course the manager's largely to blame, but is it his fault Konchesky didn't control a simple ball, which however shit he may be, he is capable of doing?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=43150.msg1232866#msg1232866 date=1292241418]
the players are not to blame at all?
[/quote]

not for things like missed sitters but it's ultimately the job of the manager to motivate the team and organise the team. the buck stops with the manager.

 

[Avmenon]

Yes, which is why the last one isn't here anymore.

Which is also why the current one won't be here for much longer.

It's far easier to sack one manager than an entire squad; though to be honest we all wish some of our 'players' joined our soon to be ex-manager.

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=43150.msg1232866#msg1232866 date=1292241418]
the players are not to blame at all?
[/quote]

Roy got a huge amount of credit for Fulhams miracle trip in Europe last season. He has been on how much he is respected in Europe. I cant remember reading that it was the likes of Nevland and Murphy who took Europe by storm, but Hodgsons tactics.

 

[Akakabooto]

I love this thread:

-We all know Roy isn't good enough etc. but surely he isn't the only problem at the club? Surely some of the players must take part of the blame? Who and why?
-Roy!

 

[SaintGeorge67]

[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43150.msg1232892#msg1232892 date=1292244354]
I love this thread:

-We all know Roy isn't good enough etc. but surely he isn't the only problem at the club? Surely some of the players must take part of the blame? Who and why?
-Roy!
[/quote]

Quite.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43150.msg1232892#msg1232892 date=1292244354]
I love this thread:

-We all know Roy isn't good enough etc. but surely he isn't the only problem at the club? Surely some of the players must take part of the blame? Who and why?
-Roy!
[/quote]

like ave says, it's easier to get rid of the manager and recruit a manager that is better able to make use of the resources at his disposal than sack the squad.
no way do we have the 9th worst squad in the league, no way.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

But that's not the point of this thread. It's about the players being twats, not about Roy being a twat.

Clearly both are correct but Roy is for another thread. Don't worry, you won't have to look far for one.

 

[Rosco]

If getting a new manager in will make Carragher's decline stop, Agger's injury record better, Konchesky less shit, Fernando Torres play like he did three years, Lucas consistent etc etc etc etc then I'd be all for it.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=43150.msg1232910#msg1232910 date=1292246203]
If getting a new manager in will make Carragher's decline stop, Agger's injury record better, Konchesky less shit, Fernando Torres play like he did three years, Lucas consistent etc etc etc etc then I'd be all for it.


[/quote]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=43150.msg1232910#msg1232910 date=1292246203]
If getting a new manager in will make Carragher's decline stop[/quote]
a better manager may be able to organise the midfield better so carra isn't as exposed

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=43150.msg1232910#msg1232910 date=1292246203]
Agger's injury record better[/quote]
a better manager may be able to better assess agger's injuries and when to bring him back as not to aggravate the injury further

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=43150.msg1232910#msg1232910 date=1292246203]
Konchesky less shit[/quote]
a better manager would probably have dropped him in favor of aurelio by now

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=43150.msg1232910#msg1232910 date=1292246203]
Fernando Torres play like he did three years[/quote]
a better manager would maybe bring the midfield/attack closer to nando he isn't as isolated and give him better support so he isn't chasing scraps (which in time would demoralise anyone).

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=43150.msg1232910#msg1232910 date=1292246203]
Lucas consistent[/quote]
a better manager would maybe suggest lucas be stronger on the ball and demand more time in the gym.

the bottom line is a top case manager would have us higher than 9th, that not a debate, surely? the question is would a better manager make us top 4, maybe, maybe not but he would DEFINATELY makes us challenge for it.

 

[Insignificance]

Ignore the whole Roy is our manager bit

Life is quite nice isnt it 🙂

 

[SaintGeorge67]

So a better manager is going to move the midfield closer to Fernando, whilst leaving Carra less exposed, and be a physio too. Nice.

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=43150.msg1232930#msg1232930 date=1292247530]
So a better manager is going to move the midfield closer to Fernando, whilst leaving Carra less exposed, and be a physio too. Nice.
[/quote]

Yes. Very nice. Of course you wonder how? Well, when Roy bought his midfield maestro he choosed a man he had waited 10 years to work with again. Finally he was in a club to attract those huge names, and finally he got the man he had chased for 10 good years.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=43150.msg1232930#msg1232930 date=1292247530]
So a better manager is going to move the midfield closer to Fernando, whilst leaving Carra less exposed, and be a physio too. Nice.
[/quote]

yes.
he would push the entire team up the field maybe ten yards, this would make us more compact and harder to play through and would also move the midfield closer to the forwards, if he have to drop back as the result of opposition pressure we would break as a team rather than hopefully long balls to the lone player up front.

on the fitness side, that's probably a stretch but you'd hope the new manager would bring his medical staff with him and it wouldn't take much for them to be better than the current medical staff.

 

[Rosco]

Some of the criticism is so fucking dumb.

 

[Akakabooto]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43150.msg1232923#msg1232923 date=1292247157]

the bottom line is a top case manager would have us higher than 9th, that not a debate, surely? the question is would a better manager make us top 4, maybe, maybe not but he would DEFINATELY makes us challenge for it.
[/quote]

You are making a grand effort trying not to get this thread.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=43150.msg1232908#msg1232908 date=1292246106]
But that's not the point of this thread. It's about the players being twats, not about Roy being a twat.

Clearly both are correct but Roy is for another thread. Don't worry, you won't have to look far for one.
[/quote]

No sensible discussion is possible about the fact that the players are being twats without considering Roy's responsibility for putting that right. Akakabooto please also NB.

 

[Akakabooto]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=43150.msg1232937#msg1232937 date=1292248171]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=43150.msg1232908#msg1232908 date=1292246106]
But that's not the point of this thread. It's about the players being twats, not about Roy being a twat.

Clearly both are correct but Roy is for another thread. Don't worry, you won't have to look far for one.
[/quote]

No sensible discussion is possible about the fact that the players are being twats without considering Roy's responsibility for putting that right. Akakabooto please also NB.
[/quote]

I don't mind it being also discussed but it has turned to yet another Roy bashing thread with the original point long forgotten.

 

[grjt]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43150.msg1232934#msg1232934 date=1292248011]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=43150.msg1232930#msg1232930 date=1292247530]
So a better manager is going to move the midfield closer to Fernando, whilst leaving Carra less exposed, and be a physio too. Nice.
[/quote]

yes.
he would push the entire team up the field maybe ten yards, this would make us more compact and harder to play through and would also move the midfield closer to the forwards, if he have to drop back as the result of opposition pressure we would break as a team rather than hopefully long balls to the lone player up front.

on the fitness side, that's probably a stretch but you'd hope the new manager would bring his medical staff with him and it wouldn't take much for them to be better than the current medical staff.
[/quote]

Arent our medical team widely accepted to be one of the most accomplished in Europe - not that I want to get in the way of your regime bashing or owt.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

The last lot did much better with Agger... Oh.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=grjt link=topic=43150.msg1232939#msg1232939 date=1292248470]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43150.msg1232934#msg1232934 date=1292248011]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=43150.msg1232930#msg1232930 date=1292247530]
So a better manager is going to move the midfield closer to Fernando, whilst leaving Carra less exposed, and be a physio too. Nice.
[/quote]

yes.
he would push the entire team up the field maybe ten yards, this would make us more compact and harder to play through and would also move the midfield closer to the forwards, if he have to drop back as the result of opposition pressure we would break as a team rather than hopefully long balls to the lone player up front.

on the fitness side, that's probably a stretch but you'd hope the new manager would bring his medical staff with him and it wouldn't take much for them to be better than the current medical staff.
[/quote]

Arent our medical team widely accepted to be one of the most accomplished in Europe - not that I want to get in the way of your regime bashing or owt.
[/quote]

I don't really have a problem with our medical but it is a concern that players seem to have relapses so soon after been deemed ready to return to active duty.