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IF Rafa get the Inter job...

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[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40514.msg1115432#msg1115432 date=1275982493]
I don't agree with Whaddapie regarding him signing for Inter. He's entitled to get another job, he's out of work.
I do however think he should have quit after failing to make good his assurances of fourth. If you make a guarentee like that and DONT leave after failing to achieve it, and then take a 6m payoff it makes you a bit fucking shameless/shameful in my eyes.Mclaren did it with England. He knew he had failed in his basic aim (qualifying for 2008) yet refused to stand down and cost the FA 4m.
But then I hate both chancers so I'm not really suprised by their actions.
[/quote]

I think before people get noble you should ask yourself if having not reached your target at work would you simply resign or would you think you deserved a second chance as you'd got so close before?

And if your Bosses said look we have a contract but we'd like you to leave as we no longer think you're the man for the job and we are prepared to pay severance pay, who can honestly say they'd simply refuse it?

I don't think it's realistic. Imagine getting home to the wife and saying 'they offered me six million but I turned it down, my honour is worth much more', 'you don't mind do you, the money would only have benefited you and the kids but it wouldn't have felt right'.

It wouldn't be an easy sell would it?
 
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=40514.msg1115441#msg1115441 date=1275983996]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40514.msg1115432#msg1115432 date=1275982493]
I don't agree with Whaddapie regarding him signing for Inter. He's entitled to get another job, he's out of work.
I do however think he should have quit after failing to make good his assurances of fourth. If you make a guarentee like that and DONT leave after failing to achieve it, and then take a 6m payoff it makes you a bit fucking shameless/shameful in my eyes.Mclaren did it with England. He knew he had failed in his basic aim (qualifying for 2008) yet refused to stand down and cost the FA 4m.
But then I hate both chancers so I'm not really suprised by their actions.
[/quote]

I think before people get noble you should ask yourself if having not reached your target at work would you simply resign or would you think you deserved a second chance as you'd got so close before?

And if your Bosses said look we have a contract but we'd like you to leave as we no longer think you're the man for the job and we are prepared to pay severance pay, who can honestly say they'd simply refuse it?

I don't think it's realistic. Imagine getting home to the wife and saying 'they offered me six million but I turned it down, my honour is worth much more', 'you don't mind do you, the money would only have benefited you and the kids but it wouldn't have felt right'.

It wouldn't be an easy sell would it?


[/quote]Good point. But if I was already a millionaire and KNEW I would get another million pound contract immediately the rest goes out the window.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40514.msg1115444#msg1115444 date=1275984154]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=40514.msg1115441#msg1115441 date=1275983996]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40514.msg1115432#msg1115432 date=1275982493]
I don't agree with Whaddapie regarding him signing for Inter. He's entitled to get another job, he's out of work.
I do however think he should have quit after failing to make good his assurances of fourth. If you make a guarentee like that and DONT leave after failing to achieve it, and then take a 6m payoff it makes you a bit fucking shameless/shameful in my eyes.Mclaren did it with England. He knew he had failed in his basic aim (qualifying for 2008) yet refused to stand down and cost the FA 4m.
But then I hate both chancers so I'm not really suprised by their actions.
[/quote]

I think before people get noble you should ask yourself if having not reached your target at work would you simply resign or would you think you deserved a second chance as you'd got so close before?

And if your Bosses said look we have a contract but we'd like you to leave as we no longer think you're the man for the job and we are prepared to pay severance pay, who can honestly say they'd simply refuse it?

I don't think it's realistic. Imagine getting home to the wife and saying 'they offered me six million but I turned it down, my honour is worth much more', 'you don't mind do you, the money would only have benefited you and the kids but it wouldn't have felt right'.

It wouldn't be an easy sell would it?


[/quote]Good point. But if I was already a millionaire and KNEW I would get another million pound contract immediately the rest goes out the window.
[/quote]

I beg to differ, it's a lot easier to decide someone elses fate than turn down a personal offer which your family has a stake in. Anyway Rafa and his advisers (another interested party) made a business decision and I can't say I blame him.
 
I do take issue with Benitez pocketing £6M, but I'm unsure where my annoyance can be targeted.

I think Benitez should have resigned at the end of the season
I think he should have resigned when the club said he was no longer wanted.

Those were the decent things to do, IMO.

The owners should never have given him such a long and powerful contract. I said so at the time; too many were caught up in blind hope and relief of stability that the reality of the contract didn't hit home until Benitez started under performing.
 
They could have just moved him upstairs, like they did with Roy.

If he knew he'd be going straight into the inter job(tapping up) then surely he's entitled to fuck all and engineered his own sacking.
 
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=40514.msg1115355#msg1115355 date=1275956074]
... I will be asking everybody who claims that he had (and retains) an unquenchable love and respect for all things LFC and the city itself, how exactly he demonstrated that devotion by taking 6 million quid that we don't have to waste off us a matter of mere days before signing a multi-year, multi-million Euro deal elsewhere.

IF he does that, it will show me EXACTLY how much Rafa loves and respects Liverpool Football Club.
[/quote]


Wow, so if someone asked you to take 6 mill and leave a job you loved quietly you would not go????

Puhlease!!!!!!!


Rafa is gone, he did his best, let him be already...

He earned the money and deserved it, so let it go already...

He could have said screw you I want all the money, and stayed, but he left , so you should be really happy...
 
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=40514.msg1115355#msg1115355 date=1275956074]
... I will be asking everybody who claims that he had (and retains) an unquenchable love and respect for all things LFC and the city itself, how exactly he demonstrated that devotion by taking 6 million quid that we don't have to waste off us a matter of mere days before signing a multi-year, multi-million Euro deal elsewhere.

IF he does that, it will show me EXACTLY how much Rafa loves and respects Liverpool Football Club.
[/quote]

Sorry bud, dont agree! He was owed a lot more! And reversing the situation if you were pushed out the door of your company (which was cash strapped) you'd take all you could get too! Regardless of having another job lined up! And dont say you wouldnt because we all would given half a chance! Doesnt mean you wouldn't love the place you left anymore! So dont preach to the rest of us of how much love and respect Rafa has or hasnt for the club given that you'd probably do the same thing in his position!
 
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=40514.msg1115509#msg1115509 date=1275995091]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=40514.msg1115355#msg1115355 date=1275956074]
... I will be asking everybody who claims that he had (and retains) an unquenchable love and respect for all things LFC and the city itself, how exactly he demonstrated that devotion by taking 6 million quid that we don't have to waste off us a matter of mere days before signing a multi-year, multi-million Euro deal elsewhere.

IF he does that, it will show me EXACTLY how much Rafa loves and respects Liverpool Football Club.
[/quote]

Sorry bud, dont agree! He was owed a lot more! And reversing the situation if you were pushed out the door of your company (which was cash strapped) you'd take all you could get too! Regardless of having another job lined up! And dont say you wouldnt because we all would given half a chance! Doesnt mean you wouldn't love the place you left anymore! So dont preach to the rest of us of how much love and respect Rafa has or hasnt for the club given that you'd probably do the same thing in his position!
[/quote]

Whilst I do agree with that, the theoretical situation where I would kinda agree with Whaddapie would be if the deal with Inter was already struck.

In those circumstances, say we were happy with Benitez, our contract with him would be for our protection, and the compensation would be due to us from Inter. If he and his agents had already been approached by Inter, already made a verbal agreement but kept it quiet so that they would avoid having to pay compensation and he would be in line for a pay off, that stinks a bit really.

As I say though, that situation is just speculation, and probably didn't actually happen. If he wanted more than anything to stay at Liverpool and the Inter job was only considered because he lost the Liverpool job then of course he is within his rights to ask for a pay off.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=40514.msg1115408#msg1115408 date=1275979326]
I don't think it's inconceivable that whaddapie would have to pay someone to marry him
[/quote]

Excuse me?
 
[quote author=The_Positive_One link=topic=40514.msg1115478#msg1115478 date=1275990587]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=40514.msg1115355#msg1115355 date=1275956074]
... I will be asking everybody who claims that he had (and retains) an unquenchable love and respect for all things LFC and the city itself, how exactly he demonstrated that devotion by taking 6 million quid that we don't have to waste off us a matter of mere days before signing a multi-year, multi-million Euro deal elsewhere.

IF he does that, it will show me EXACTLY how much Rafa loves and respects Liverpool Football Club.
[/quote]


Wow, so if someone asked you to take 6 mill and leave a job you loved quietly you would not go????

Puhlease!!!!!!!


Rafa is gone, he did his best, let him be already...

He earned the money and deserved it, so let it go already...

He could have said screw you I want all the money, and stayed, but he left , so you should be really happy...
[/quote]

If I truly LOVED the job, was already filthy rich, was about to get filthy-er rich at my new gig and the job I LOVED didn't have $6 never mind $6million to waste, then yes I f#$!ing would.
 
Benitez wanted to stay and his contract entitled him to a lot more than what the board foolishly paid him to terminate it

Now you're moaning that the manager who aint good enough for us is deemed good enough for the current European champions
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40514.msg1115432#msg1115432 date=1275982493]
I don't agree with Whaddapie regarding him signing for Inter. He's entitled to get another job, he's out of work.
I do however think he should have quit after failing to make good his assurances of fourth. If you make a guarentee like that and DONT leave after failing to achieve it, and then take a 6m payoff it makes you a bit fucking shameless/shameful in my eyes.
Mclaren did it with England. He knew he had failed in his basic aim (qualifying for 2008) yet refused to stand down and cost the FA 4m.
But then I hate both chancers so I'm not really suprised by their actions.
[/quote]

Never said he wasn't entitled to go to Inter, Andy. Don't know how you came up with that... Actually, I never even said that he wasn't entitled to take the money. I disputed his alleged devotion to us in doing so.
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=40514.msg1115532#msg1115532 date=1275997664]
Benitez wanted to stay and his contract entitled him to a lot more than what the board foolishly paid him to terminate it

Now you're moaning that the manager who aint good enough for us is deemed good enough for the current European champions

[/quote]

Try again. That's oh-so-clearly NOT what I'm moaning about.
 
devotion to to the club is not the same as devotion the lying, panicking, backstabbing board running the club. The same board who less than 12 months ago gave him that very contract.

he should have taken them to the cleaners
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=40514.msg1115435#msg1115435 date=1275983479]Nothing wrong from Rafa here. [/quote]

The fact that this is Le Chac saying this about Rafa says it all really.

That said, I can definitely empathise with Oncy's point of view that really he should have resigned having failed to deliver on his promises in such a momentous fashion
 
Its slightly strange though that in effect he's been "pushed" from the job for poor performance and yet is still entitled to a pay off. I know its contractual and that technically he left by "mutual consent" but it still irks me that footballers and other very highly paid professionals get paid for failure.

I'd love to fail and get asked to leave, then get paid for being a failure. I'd become a professional failure in all my jobs!
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=40514.msg1115541#msg1115541 date=1275998249]
Its slightly strange though that in effect he's been "pushed" from the job for poor performance and yet is still entitled to a pay off. I know its contractual and that technically he left by "mutual consent" but it still irks me that footballers and other very highly paid professionals get paid for failure.

I'd love to fail and get asked to leave, then get paid for being a failure. I'd become a professional failure in all my jobs!


[/quote]

I've always found this utterly mystifying as well.

I kind of reconciled the confusion with big corporate CEOs by deciding they probably knew too many dirty little secrets, and the payoff was hush money, but how this applies in this sort of case, I dunno
 
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=40514.msg1115355#msg1115355 date=1275956074]
... I will be asking everybody who claims that he had (and retains) an unquenchable love and respect for all things LFC and the city itself, how exactly he demonstrated that devotion by taking 6 million quid that we don't have to waste off us a matter of mere days before signing a multi-year, multi-million Euro deal elsewhere.

IF he does that, it will show me EXACTLY how much Rafa loves and respects Liverpool Football Club.
[/quote]


i see your point but question, does anyone still have unquenchanable love for there club when in there eyes (assumption) they are being asked to leave/pushed out against there will.
Would you not try and take your employer for every penny you can get regardless of what level of loyalty you feel for them?
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=40514.msg1115536#msg1115536 date=1275997871]
devotion to to the club is not the same as devotion the lying, panicking, backstabbing board running the club. The same board who less than 12 months ago gave him that very contract.

he should have taken them to the cleaners


[/quote]

The stupidity was in giving him such a contract.

Loads of people on here thought that was a mistake.
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=40514.msg1115536#msg1115536 date=1275997871]
devotion to to the club is not the same as devotion the lying, panicking, backstabbing board running the club. The same board who less than 12 months ago gave him that very contract.

he should have taken them to the cleaners


[/quote]

I find this attitude hard to reason with.

Is it actually Liverpool FC you support ?
 
It's a job and his entitlement for which he settled for less, he's not asking for 3 times what he is owned (compare to owners). I don't understand this high-minded morale code that Rafa is supposed to uphold, esp those who are exceptionally gleeful to see the back of him. When things go well, coaches and players alike are beloved. When losses start coming, people get older, there'll be nitwits so keen on the bandwagon to say 'fuck them, sack them, forget them'.
 
[quote author=cochyn link=topic=40514.msg1115549#msg1115549 date=1275998944]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=40514.msg1115355#msg1115355 date=1275956074]
... I will be asking everybody who claims that he had (and retains) an unquenchable love and respect for all things LFC and the city itself, how exactly he demonstrated that devotion by taking 6 million quid that we don't have to waste off us a matter of mere days before signing a multi-year, multi-million Euro deal elsewhere.

IF he does that, it will show me EXACTLY how much Rafa loves and respects Liverpool Football Club.
[/quote]


i see your point but question, does anyone still have unquenchanable love for there club when in there eyes (assumption) they are being asked to leave/pushed out against there will.
Would you not try and take your employer for every penny you can get regardless of what level of loyalty you feel for them?
[/quote]

If I loved them as much as I do LFC AND was financial secure already (and was about to take a job that paid me a king's ransom), then quite honestly, no I wouldn't, because it would damage the company that I claim to love...

Now, if I DIDN'T love and respect the company I was leaving... If it was ONLY a job...
 
[quote author=etchy link=topic=40514.msg1115576#msg1115576 date=1276002652]
[size=12pt]It's a job[/size] and his entitlement for which he settled for less, he's not asking for 3 times what he is owned (compare to owners). I don't understand this high-minded morale code that Rafa is supposed to uphold, esp those who are exceptionally gleeful to see the back of him. When things go well, coaches and players alike are beloved. When losses start coming, people get older, there'll be nitwits so keen on the bandwagon to say 'fuck them, sack them, forget them'.
[/quote]

That's the point, mate.

Don't tell me you love me as you dive into my wallet on your way out the door...
 
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=40514.msg1115587#msg1115587 date=1276004186]
[quote author=cochyn link=topic=40514.msg1115549#msg1115549 date=1275998944]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=40514.msg1115355#msg1115355 date=1275956074]
... I will be asking everybody who claims that he had (and retains) an unquenchable love and respect for all things LFC and the city itself, how exactly he demonstrated that devotion by taking 6 million quid that we don't have to waste off us a matter of mere days before signing a multi-year, multi-million Euro deal elsewhere.

IF he does that, it will show me EXACTLY how much Rafa loves and respects Liverpool Football Club.
[/quote]


i see your point but question, does anyone still have unquenchanable love for there club when in there eyes (assumption) they are being asked to leave/pushed out against there will.
Would you not try and take your employer for every penny you can get regardless of what level of loyalty you feel for them?
[/quote]

If I loved them as much as I do LFC AND was financial secure already (and was about to take a job that paid me a king's ransom), then quite honestly, no I wouldn't, because it would damage the company that I claim to love...

Now, if I DIDN'T love and respect the company I was leaving... If it was ONLY a job...
[/quote]

If you turned down £6 million then I would have serious reservations about your sanity.

"No thanks Mr Hicks, you can keep your hand in your pocket because I don't need the money, spend it on the debt repayments instead."
 
[quote author=refugee link=topic=40514.msg1115590#msg1115590 date=1276004397]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=40514.msg1115587#msg1115587 date=1276004186]
[quote author=cochyn link=topic=40514.msg1115549#msg1115549 date=1275998944]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=40514.msg1115355#msg1115355 date=1275956074]
... I will be asking everybody who claims that he had (and retains) an unquenchable love and respect for all things LFC and the city itself, how exactly he demonstrated that devotion by taking 6 million quid that we don't have to waste off us a matter of mere days before signing a multi-year, multi-million Euro deal elsewhere.

IF he does that, it will show me EXACTLY how much Rafa loves and respects Liverpool Football Club.
[/quote]


i see your point but question, does anyone still have unquenchanable love for there club when in there eyes (assumption) they are being asked to leave/pushed out against there will.
Would you not try and take your employer for every penny you can get regardless of what level of loyalty you feel for them?
[/quote]

If I loved them as much as I do LFC AND was financial secure already (and was about to take a job that paid me a king's ransom), then quite honestly, no I wouldn't, because it would damage the company that I claim to love...

Now, if I DIDN'T love and respect the company I was leaving... If it was ONLY a job...
[/quote]

If you turned down £6 million then I would have serous reservations about your sanity.

"No thanks Mr Hicks, you can keep your hand in your pocket because I don't need the money, spend it on the debt repayments instead."
[/quote]

Why?

You said it yourself in your reply to me... "I don't NEED the money".

I love Liverpool. (In this hypothetical) I'm already filthy rich and about to sign ANOTHER enormous, multi-million pound contract. My grandchildren need never work, I've got so much money. I would not take the 6 million. ESPECIALLY since I'm a large part of the reason that we're sooooo f#$!ed in the first place.

Most of you don't share my feelings on this... Fair enough. But it's how I feel. I simply cannot balance the "I LOVE LFC" with the "but I'm gonna take 6m that I don't need and they don't have to bugger off 'cos I haven't done my job well enough to keep it" aspects of this argument.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=40514.msg1115598#msg1115598 date=1276004879]
Well, as long as you don't care.
[/quote]

Sod off, Barry Manilow... 🙂
 
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=40514.msg1115595#msg1115595 date=1276004721]

You said it yourself in your reply to me... "I don't NEED the money".

I love Liverpool. (In this hypothetical) I'm already filthy rich and about to sign ANOTHER enormous, multi-million pound contract. My grandchildren need never work, I've got so much money. I would not take the 6 million. ESPECIALLY since I'm a large part of the reason that we're sooooo f#$!ed in the first place.

Most of you don't share my feelings on this... Fair enough. But it's how I feel. I simply cannot balance the "I LOVE LFC" with the "but I'm gonna take 6m that I don't need and they don't have to bugger off 'cos I haven't done my job well enough to keep it" aspects of this argument.
[/quote]

I no longer have reservations about your sanity.
 
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=40514.msg1115603#msg1115603 date=1276005116]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=40514.msg1115598#msg1115598 date=1276004879]
Well, as long as you don't care.
[/quote]

Sod off, Barry Manilow... 🙂
[/quote]

Nope it's not Barry Manilow.
 
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