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Hillsborough: Searching For The Truth

I went to a Christian Brothers school as well on a scholarship mate. I fell asleep once in those theology sessions - got battered

Hang on, you needed a scholarship to get into a Christian Brothers school? They let any old hallion into the Christian Brothers schools I went to.
 
Man Utd fans should be banned for Liverpool taunts - Joe Jordan

By Saj Chowdhury
BBC Sport

Supporters involved in tasteless chants at football matches should be banned for life, according to former Manchester United player Joe Jordan.

His comments came after a minority of United fans took part in anti-Liverpool taunts during the 4-0 win against Wigan, days after the report into the Hillsborough disaster was made public.

"I can't quite get my head around why people come to football matches with that first and foremost on their minds," Jordan told BBC Sport.

"You have to eliminate it."

The former striker added that anyone found guilty of tasteless chants on Saturday should be "banned for life".

United released a statement after the Premier League match against Wigan saying they "deplored" the chants from fans at Old Trafford.

Earlier in the week, United manager Sir Alex Ferguson called for both United and Liverpool fans to end the terrace barbs against each other.

The teams meet next Sunday at Anfield.

"What they come out with has nothing to do with a football match," added former Scotland international Jordan.

"It's not getting at the players, it's getting at families. Neither they nor I can imagine the pain those people have gone through."

Jordan said he could not recall during his time as a United player ever hearing Liverpool fans chant about the Munich air disaster of 1958 that killed members of Manchester United's squad and coaching staff.

He added it was time to stamp out such behaviour.

"It's something that shouldn't really be happening," said Jordan, who played for United between 1978 and 1981.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19617438
 
I went to a Christian Brothers school as well on a scholarship mate. I fell asleep once in those theology sessions - got battered

Jeebus I hated that damn school. But I'll shut up now. I think I preferred it when I'd put that part of my life in room 101. This thread is starting to stink of me moaning when I'm really quite a cheery chap!
 
Hang on, you needed a scholarship to get into a Christian Brothers school? They let any old hallion into the Christian Brothers schools I went to.

The business model is all arse about tit over here. They preach about how the Christian Brothers created the school to teach the local poor kids and then charge thousands to get in. But this is another topic.
 
I just had something of a Hillsborough 'moment'. Closed my eyes in a busy pub and tried to recall that second that I drited away.

The thing that came back the strongest was a theology group session in lower sixth. When I tried to describe the situation but couldn't because i burst into tears. Those sessions, in St Mary's (private school but I had a scholarship, what with me being dead clever and that, what with all the other cunts being cunts) were a circle, everyone in that form, a time to air views to one of the younger teachers - ironically a young biology teacher - who held together a religious curriculum.

I recall several kids explaining what they would have done. How they would not only have escaped but probably saved those around them. How they were strong and how the events wouldn't have hurt them. I listened, a trembling wreck, and went to speak about what I'd seen. I burst into tears, conscious of the accusing glances but unable to stop. I'd been calling the samaritans every day, just to vocalise what I'd seen. My parents weren't effective sponges.

I'd like to think I'd be far better at this kind of thing than them and I hope it won't be tested but my parents were completely shit. We've still never discussed it. I've never discussed this with anyone. I cried and cried until the session ended. There's a huge abstraction about life and death that is utterly unknowable and indescribable. It must have been very awkward for everyone.

It is a strong story that you carry Woland. Even if you feel you don't have specific need to get it off your chest, it might well be that open those wounds will be helpful in the long term. Of course depending that you find someone trustworthy enough to really listen and give useful input along the way. I hope you find that/those people cuase they can be inspiring...
 
SCATTERED ROGUE VOICES SHOULD NOT HIDE THE LEVEL OF SOLIDARITY OVER HILLSBOROUGH

by Tony Evans // 17 September 2012 // 5 Comments


ON Sunday, Manchester United go to Anfield for Liverpool’s first home game since the Hillsborough Independent Panel’s devastating findings. The report shocked a Prime Minister and most of the nation. It looks like one of those unhappy quirks of fate that the Kop’s most bitter rivals will be in town on what will be an extremely emotional occasion at Anfield.

After all, a section of United fans sang songs aimed at Liverpool on Saturday. The Merseyside club was the focus of the Stretford End’s disdain, even though United were playing Wigan Athletic.

The words, “Always the victim, it’s never your fault,” are a snide reference to Liverpool supporters’ role in the 1989 disaster, coated with the flimsiest veneer of deniability. Claims that the lyrics refer specifically to the Luis Suárez-Patrice Evra affair are disingenuous. It has caused concern that Liverpool’s tribute to the families who fought relentlessly for justice for 23 years will be upstaged by bile-filled nastiness emanating from the away support.

There were similar fears when Manchester City went to Old Trafford on the day United commemorated the 50th anniversary of the Munich air disaster four years ago. They proved completely unfounded. City supporters observed the silence impeccably. And United fans will show the same decency.

The overwhelming majority of football supporters value their humanity over sectarian point-scoring at the expense of the dead. To believe that the noisy minority is anywhere close to being representative of fandom at large is to fall into the same trap as South Yorkshire Police.

Some people were asking why the United fans singing on Saturday were not identified by CCTV, ejected and banned from the stadium. It is dangerous territory. On what basis, would such actions be justified? On this occasion, the chants were ambiguous enough to provide a legal line of defence.

Yes, some supporters look and act like brutish members of the underclass. But making assumptions is dangerous. Let’s remember that the people responsible for the Hillsborough disaster were not the sort of people you would cross the road to avoid. On the contrary, they were men of status, wealth and power. They covered up their own culpability and their influence allowed them to evade their responsibilities for 23 years until the truth finally caught up with them.

They had little or no respect for football fans. They would expect United supporters to misbehave at Anfield. They would plan for it and imagine no other possible outcome. They would criminalise them in advance.

They should have been at a Hillsborough Justice Campaign fundraiser in London on Saturday night. They would have met United fans, seen that a City fan sent memorabilia to raffle and encountered supporters of a dozen clubs.

Most people who go to matches understand the enormity of Hillsborough, United fans more than most. They were beaten by Nottingham Forest in the FA Cup quarter-final in 1989 and it does not take too much of a leap of imagination for older supporters to envisage a series of results that might have put them in the semi-final, and in the Leppings Lane end.

The hierarchy at United understands this, too. It is keen to make a gesture of solidarity with the families and it is not beyond possibility that a United shirt will carry a tribute to the 96. A few rogue voices at Old Trafford on Saturday should not obscure the level of solidarity between the clubs on this.

Every club is followed by a small number of unpalatable people. There have even been Liverpool fans who saw nothing incongruous about singing songs lauding Harold Shipman — “the man who’s killing the Mancs” — while wearing Hillsborough Justice Campaign badges. Just about every club have this sort of element.

They are mostly young, immature and desperate to show off. Most of them grow up and do no lasting damage.

Yet using the lowest common denominator to formulate policy about how to deal with fans is what happened in the 1980s. It created the environment where police jumped to the wrong conclusions with fatal consequences. We must never let that happen again.

If the price to pay is a few nasty songs, we can live with it with a wince. After all, 96 people paid the ultimate price because a police force was more concerned about hooliganism than their safety.
 
Lucas Leiva@LucasLeiva87
Merseyside United.

Peter Reid @reid6peter
In tears , magnificent Goodison park. Everton FC pure CLASS

Ryan Taylor@TaylorR1984
So much respect for EFC for what they just done. #JFT96

Didi Hamann@DietmarHamann
What a gesture from Everton brought a tear to my eye ...shows what a great city Liverpool is the bond is unique
 
Goodison Park ball boys
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Match programme
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Class..

Well done Everton.. Respect for that..

Although it would of been a monumental fuckup if the the kids where standing the other side of each other..

*coughs*
 
LFC thank EFC for tribute to 96


Liverpool managing director Ian Ayre has tonight issued a thank-you to Everton FC after the club paid tribute to the 96 Reds fans who died at Hillsborough.

Before their match with Newcastle United at Goodison Park on Monday night, the Blues united with the Reds as they paid their respects.

Everton were led out by two mascots - one wearing the blue kit and another wearing the Liverpool strip. The mascot in Blue colours wore No.9 while the mascot in red colours had No.6 and they stood side by side displaying 96.

Everton's ball boys for the match also wore tracksuits with the number 96 on the back.
Before kick-off the club observed a minute's applause and a moving montage of the 96 was played on the big screen accompanied by The Hollies classic anthem 'He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother'.

Liverpool managing director Ian Ayre told Liverpoolfc.com: "I would like to extend a heartfelt thank-you to all the staff and fans at Everton Football Club from everyone at Liverpool for the display of support you have shown the Hillsborough families tonight.

"We've always been great rivals on the pitch but off it, the two clubs have always supported each other. In the immediate aftermath of the disaster, Everton Football Club was there for us and that solidarity was on display again last week when the Hillsborough Independent Panel's findings were revealed.

"At times like this, football rivalries take a back seat - something that makes this city unique and I think supporters of both clubs can be immensely proud of the way they have conducted themselves over the past days, weeks and years since the tragedy."

Blues boss David Moyes also paid a glowing tribute to the Hillsborough families in his programme notes.

Moyes wrote: "I and everyone at Everton stands alongside the Hillsborough families. I am a football supporter and a father and I applaud the families who continued to fight for the ones they loved.
"The outcome was nothing short of disgraceful."

Margaret Aspinall and Trevor Hicks from the Hillsborough Famiies Support Group were both attending the game as special guests of Everton chairman Bill Kenwright.

efc_v_newcastle_2.jpg

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/lfc-thank-efc-for-tribute-to-96
 
Didn't even see the game or indeed the tribute, and I'm welling up from reading these posts. Massive respect to Everton.
 
Magnificent. Let's keep this spirit going and consign the recently increased nastiness of the red-blue rivalry to history where it belongs, along with the lies about Hillsborough.
 
Well done Everton that was beautiful.

I sat in my lounge crying like a baby, what a lovely touch by Kenwright to invite the families to the game.

Superb work by the city overall.

I wonder what we have planned for Sundya before the game
 
(On Mancs)
10:00PM BST 18 Sep 2012
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Comment
The opposing captains, likely to be Steven Gerrard and Nemanja Vidic, will share the honour of releasing 96 red balloons shortly before kick-off, to represent the number of Liverpool supporters who perished on the fateful day in Sheffield 23 years ago.
In what will be the first time home game for the Merseyside club since the publication of the Hillsborough Independent Panel’s exhaustive report into the disaster, the pre-match ceremonies will duly recognise the significance of recent events.
Manchester United have shown their willingness to play their part since it became apparent their trip to Merseyside coincided with Liverpool’s desire to express their respect and gratitude to all those who have fought so diligently and passionately for the truth to be established.
Anfield will become a shrine prior to kick off. Liverpool announced plans for three sides of the stadium to form mosaics to honour the 96 supporters who died.
As the opposing players exit the tunnel to the club’s anthem You’ll Never Walk Alone, The Kop will display the words ‘The Truth’.
The Anfield Road end, directly facing The Kop, will reveal the number ‘96’. And the adjoining Centenary Stand of the stadium will depict the most pertinent observation of ‘Justice’.
Representatives of the three support groups — The Hillsborough Family Support Group, Hillsborough Justice Campaign and Hope for Hillsborough – who have worked so tirelessly to uncover the facts and dispel the myths surrounding the tragedy, will be honoured guests at the fixture.
Liverpool and United have held discussions at senior level in recent days to ensure the correct tone is set in what is often a volatile meeting of the North West clubs.
Liverpool’s managing director, Ian Ayre, liaised directly with Old Trafford chief executive David Gill to oversee proceedings this weekend.
Although there are inevitable sporting tensions between the clubs and their fans, traditionally the hierarchies have enjoyed a professional relationship and this is reflected in the mutual respect shown over the past week.
“It is our first opportunity we have had as a football club to pay tribute at Anfield to what everybody has done: the families, the fans and various other people like Andy Burnham MP,” said Ayre.
“It is a chance for everybody to show their respects on the day.” Both clubs are aware there is little can be done about the incendiary atmosphere that usually typifies meetings between England’s two most successful clubs.
Neither is particularly keen to see the intensity that makes the fixture such a global attraction compromised, but there is an acknowledgement — particularly following the controversies of last season — to ensure certain boundaries of taste and decency are adhered too.
Concerns have inevitably been raised about the timing of United’s visit given recent issues between the clubs, but both see the meeting as an opportunity to show how for the overwhelming majority of those connected to Anfield and Old Trafford there is a mutual understanding and sympathy for what they’ve experienced throughout their history.
All the discussions between the clubs have focused solely on the tributes. Suggestions Liverpool have raised the issue of the pre-match handshakes with any of their players has caused bewilderment at Anfield.
If Luis Suárez and Patrice Evra meet again — by no means certain given the impressive debut of Alexander Buttner for United last weekend — the Uruguay striker will shake the French defender’s hand.
Liverpool have felt no need to remind the player of this as they fully expect that formality to pass without any controversy.
 
I keep coming back to this thread & occasionally posting, as I find it therepeutic - so apologies for boring you.

I previously mentioned that I wrote the article at the bottom of this post and published it our work newsletter (I now live & work in the west of Ireland by the way). It went out yesterday and I have been inundated with emails, IMs, and conversations from folks here appreciating what I wrote & generally beign supportive .. my problem is I am still having difficuly holding it in & don't want to cry in front of these hard Irish colleagues 🙂

One response, though, just really upset me ... I am resisting the temptation to reply further, but I am stunned by the lack of sensitivity and empathy (not to mention ignorance) from this person ... especially when I know she openly complains about an ex manager who was not people-oriented enough for her liking

Am I overreacting to this ? Here it is :
1st Email -> so what happened on that date? your story doesnt say....
My Answer -> Hillsborough happened on that date
Her response -> What was that?

Email now permanently deleted as I dont trust myself not to reply with a torrent of abuse ... 🙁

PS - I only realised yesterday the cruel coincidence that I receieved the news last week while I was away on business in Oregon ... in a town called Hillsboro


Hillsborough - a personal view

23 years ago on 15th April 1989, having climbed over a fence out of the central pen at the Lepping’s Lane end of Hillsborough at around 2.40pm, I was one of the “lucky” ones to make that long, painful & lonely journey back to Liverpool. 96 other fans were not so lucky & never returned home. The Hillsborough Disaster was a tragedy that could have been avoided and even once it started the impact could have been significantly reduced if the right steps had been taken. That on its own makes Hillsborough a sad and pointless waste of life .. but what followed rubbed salt in the wounds.

The police force, the government and the football authorities suppressed evidence about the truth of what happened, worse still the police force fed false stories to the press leading to The Lying Rag newspaper printing an article that claimed Liverpool fans robbed & urinated on the dead and dying. To this day The Lying Rag does not sell in Liverpool as a boycott has lasted these last 20 odd years.

The families of the victims, the Liverpool fans and the community of Merseyside as whole have been campaigning since 1989 for the truth to be revealed and justice served. They have put up with open criticism for this, been accused of “not moving on” and “wallowing in their own misery” by the press and ill-informed public, but still they have fought.

This week previously secret papers have been published and at last the truth that we all knew has been categorically proven. The British Prime Minister has publicly apologised, as have the police force and The Lying Rag newspaper - though in the latter case I believe (I still refuse to read it) they have made pathetic excuses. At last the truth has been confirmed, now we need closure with the delivery of justice for the 96.

How do I feel about this?

I can’t pretend to speak for anyone but myself; the events of this week have reawakened painful memories but have also provided some relief & happiness that at last the broader public can see that the facts that we have known all along are indeed the truth. This relief & happiness, though, is tainted by intense anger. For 23 years there has been an orchestrated cover up from government and authorities and the innocent victims of the Hillsborough Tragedy are the ones who have been vilified and made to pay for that cover up; all the apologies from David Cameron now cannot make up for the fact that his predecessors were actively involved in suppressing the truth and as a result disrespecting the dead, injured and bereaved.

I hope this week can bring some form of closure for the hundreds of thousands of people affected directly and indirectly by the tragedy, but the sense of injustice will not be dissolved so easily. I also hope that those people who did not previously understand or accept the truth of Hillsborough, but instead bought into the popular myths pedalled by the media and authorities, can finally see that the 23 year fight for truth and justice was indeed justified and worthy.

I can only hope …
 
I listened to a debate about that on 5-Live this morning. I decided that they should bring the death penalty back for people who want to bring the death penalty back.
 
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