Hillsborough: Searching For The Truth

[FoxForceFive]

I completely disagree. Cameron could not have done better in his announcement of the results of the HIP and the way he apologised for the injustice of the last 23 years. He was clearly totally sincere in what he said and there wasn't the slightest trace of performing a political act.

Had he behaved any differently the press would have torn him apart.

He did what he had to do, not what he wanted to do.

On the taw Hillsborough podcast they said he was told the findings in brief & advised by his civil servants nothing but a complete apology would do. It also removes his administration from the errors of that tory administration by doing so.

There's no way any prime minister since hasn't known at least some of the cover up existed, don't believe for a second either party would have chosen to have this come out.

 

[Portly]

He did what he had to do, not what he wanted to do.

You don't know what Cameron wanted to do. A judge once said something to the effect that "only God knows what is in a man's mind." I prefer to judge politicians on their words and their actions. In this instance I don't believe Cameron can be faulted. I don't believe that he is a lizard. I don't believe that Blair or Miliband are lizards. They are human beings trying to do politics, which is very tough and without which democracy is impossible.

 

[Red Astaire]

Had he behaved any differently the press would have torn him apart.

He did what he had to do, not what he wanted to do.

On the taw Hillsborough podcast they said he was told the findings in brief & advised by his civil servants nothing but a complete apology would do. It also removes his administration from the errors of that tory administration by doing so.

There's no way any prime minister since hasn't known at least some of the cover up existed, don't believe for a second either party would have chosen to have this come out.

This is exactly the opinion I have - Succinctly put FFF. 🙂

 

[Woland]

You're right about Miliband. He's no lizard. He's an agitated milk monitor. There's no harm in him.

 

[FoxForceFive]

You don't know what Cameron wanted to do. A judge once said something to the effect that "only God knows what is in a man's mind." I prefer to judge politicians on their words and their actions. In this instance I don't believe Cameron can be faulted. I don't believe that he is a lizard. I don't believe that Blair or Miliband are lizards. They are human beings trying to do politics, which is very tough and without which democracy is impossible.

True, I don't know that he definitely didn't want to do it, however I highly doubt any tory prime minister would want to admit the biggest cover up in the history of Britain was done under a previous tory prime minister that they idolise & has continued to be covered up for 23 years.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

Jon, I said this ............"he couldn't have done any more to help when he was able to, I don't think he had any other option, but he has thrown himself into it."

Red , I said this immediately after my original post ..................."OK I see, sorry, it's all politicians that are getting it, but I still think this has transcended the politics issues and it has become a very human thing, just like it has transcended other areas of life"

I don't think this is a thread that should start going down this route to be honest gentlemen, and it is going down this route because of political opinion and not fact, so for that reason I am drawing a line under it here as far as the current personalities in Parliament are concerned, and I strongly suggest everyone else does or it will end up like every other thread on here.

regards

 

[FreshRed]

You don't know what Cameron wanted to do. A judge once said something to the effect that "only God knows what is in a man's mind." I prefer to judge politicians on their words and their actions. In this instance I don't believe Cameron can be faulted.

Judging a politician by their words seems naive. Politicians are paid to be sincere with their words. And, I do believe that Cameron and Millibrand were sincere in this moment.

But, will their actions follow their words. That will be the test of whether they have any honor. In truth, Cameron has less to gain than Millibrand in this case, so if Cameron truly follows through on what he has said even when the papers grow quiet in the months to come, then he will truly deserve some of the credit he has been awarded this week.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

Cough..............
I don't think this is a thread that should start going down this route to be honest gentlemen, and it is going down this route because of political opinion and not fact, so for that reason I am drawing a line under it here, as far as the current personalities in Parliament are concerned, and I strongly suggest everyone else does or it will end up like every other thread on here.

regards

 

[Red Astaire]

Agreed. 🙂

 

[Richey]

You don't know what Cameron wanted to do. A judge once said something to the effect that "only God knows what is in a man's mind." I prefer to judge politicians on their words and their actions. In this instance I don't believe Cameron can be faulted. I don't believe that he is a lizard. I don't believe that Blair or Miliband are lizards. They are human beings trying to do politics, which is very tough and without which democracy is impossible.

I agree. I don't believe that Cameron or Miliband were anything other than sincere in their actions and words over this. I don't believe that Cameron personally could stand up and talk about the pain of losing a child without actually meaning it, given his own circumstances. People don't have to like him or agree with him (and I am sure most people don't) but he is not a monster.

I spoke to a friend of mine after the statements in the Commons. He was there and told me, when compared to the nonsense that normally goes on there, he considered that to be parliament at its very best. Another friend of mine, without me asking, actually thought to send me a copy of the report in the post just because he knew I would be interested and might know others who would want it. He didn't need to do that. People do like to slag off politicians but (and yes, I know I would say this wouldn't I?) but they are genuinely not bad people.

 

[FoxForceFive]

Agreed vlad, this isn't the thread to debate in. I'll leave it there.

 

[Red Astaire]

There is lots of twitter news that different fans are going to sing YNWA around the grounds at 3.06 today. What a nice thing to do.

 

[Judge Jules]

Absolutely. While I don't necessarily expect it, I hope something of this kind of spirit can become established in the game and change it for the better. What a memorial to the 96 that would be.

 

[themn]

On the topic of not talking about it... This is kinda weird. I'm the kid in the bottom left with the black t-shirt and big feet.

Krump - could you re-host/upload this image.
I'd like to see the boots.

 

[livvy145]

Ground-wide applause at the Britannia Stadium as You'll Never Walk Alone is played over the PA system. We'll no doubt see similar scenes across the country today as fans show solidarity with the Liverpool supporters.

 

[6TimesaRed]

Nice to see 'Always the victim, never your fault..' is still top of the old Trafford charts'

Classless cnuts..

 

[Sunny]

<b>Families of the Hillsborough victims believe phones were tapped<br />
<br />
</b>Families battling to discover the truth about Hillsborough believe their phones were tapped during the early years of their campaign to unmask the establishment cover-up of the tragedy, it emerged yesterday.<br />
<br />
Sheila Coleman, a spokeswoman for the Hillsborough Justice Campaign, told The Independent that she and six families of victims suspect their home phones were eavesdropped in the early 1990s as they took court action to demand the disclosure of documents about the crush.<br />
<br />
More here:<br />
<br />
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ctims-believe-phones-were-tapped-8140115.html

 

[FoxForceFive]

Considering the same establishment tapped tomlinson's phone it wouldn't be a big surprise, sadly.

 

[Piedro]

Jimmy Mcgoverns Hillsborough is on ITV3 now.

Worth a watch if you've not seen it.

 

[doctor_mac]

Jimmy Mcgoverns Hillsborough is on ITV3 now.

Worth a watch if you've not seen it.

The crazy thing is, that even in that docu-drama, or whatever you call it, it is all there. We've known all along what happened, that the whole thing was an organisational fuck up, the 3.15 cut off was ridiculous, and that there was a deliberate attempt by the police chiefs to deflect blame onto the Liverpool supporters. Those are the three salient points in that film that remain the three salient points.

It is unbeievable that we've come all this way to repeat what has always been known by those who've cared to aprise themselves of the facts. It is maddening.

 

[tombrown]

And the people in authority (government, police, FA etc) all knew it as well, and so, to me, it makes their "heartfelt" apologies ring very hollow indeed.

The FA apologise for using a ground without a safety certificate, as if they only just found out that was the case when the papers were published

I am delighted the truth is out & is irrefutable, but my delight is surpassed by the fact I am now angrier than ever.

 

[FoxForceFive]

I'd be interested to learn if they can get a statement from the police officer who originally mentioned Duckenfield cowering under a table rocking back & forth alone in the cctv room. From memory I believe that was included in mcgoverns Hillsborough, but I last watched it years ago.

 

[Spionkop69]

So a 'minority' of Utd fans sing their tasteless rubbish, which they always sang BEFORE the Suarez episode, and instead of unreserved condemnation from the club and the various supporters trusts, they excuse it by saying it wasn't aimed at Hillsborough. If they weren't singing how do they know? Plus they keep making reference to the Munich chant which I haven't heard at Liverpool v Utd game in years or any other game for that matter. Yet they sing their shit about us, at every game they play.

Apology from them? Fuck them. They have behaved like the members of the establishment with their conditional apologies. I want them to do fuck all next week except shut the fuck up. We played them the week after Tony Bland died and they not only interrupted the minutes silence but sang Hillsborough shite all the way through.

Don't be surprised if it happens again this weekend.

 

[Woland]

I just had something of a Hillsborough 'moment'. Closed my eyes in a busy pub and tried to recall that second that I drited away.

The thing that came back the strongest was a theology group session in lower sixth. When I tried to describe the situation but couldn't because i burst into tears. Those sessions, in St Mary's (private school but I had a scholarship, what with me being dead clever and that, what with all the other cunts being cunts) were a circle, everyone in that form, a time to air views to one of the younger teachers - ironically a young biology teacher - who held together a religious curriculum.

I recall several kids explaining what they would have done. How they would not only have escaped but probably saved those around them. How they were strong and how the events wouldn't have hurt them. I listened, a trembling wreck, and went to speak about what I'd seen. I burst into tears, conscious of the accusing glances but unable to stop. I'd been calling the samaritans every day, just to vocalise what I'd seen. My parents weren't effective sponges.

I'd like to think I'd be far better at this kind of thing than them and I hope it won't be tested but my parents were completely shit. We've still never discussed it. I've never discussed this with anyone. I cried and cried until the session ended. There's a huge abstraction about life and death that is utterly unknowable and indescribable. It must have been very awkward for everyone.

 

[the count]

I just had something of a Hillsborough 'moment'. Closed my eyes in a busy pub and tried to recall that second that I drited away.

The thing that came back the strongest was a theology group session in lower sixth. When I tried to describe the situation but couldn't because i burst into tears. Those sessions, in St Mary's (private school but I had a scholarship, what with me being dead clever and that, what with all the other cunts being cunts) were a circle, everyone in that form, a time to air views to one of the younger teachers - ironically a young biology teacher - who held together a religious curriculum.

I recall several kids explaining what they would have done. How they would not only have escaped but probably saved those around them. How they were strong and how the events wouldn't have hurt them. I listened, a trembling wreck, and went to speak about what I'd seen. I burst into tears, conscious of the accusing glances but unable to stop. I'd been calling the samaritans every day, just to vocalise what I'd seen. My parents weren't effective sponges.

I'd like to think I'd be far better at this kind of thing than them and I hope it won't be tested but my parents were completely shit. We've still never discussed it. I've never discussed this with anyone. I cried and cried until the session ended. There's a huge abstraction about life and death that is utterly unknowable and indescribable. It must have been very awkward for everyone.

XXX
I am fucked if I know what to say but I am prepared to listen if there is anything else you feel like telling

 

[Woland]

XXX
I am fucked if I know what to say but I am prepared to listen if there is anything else you feel like telling

Cheers dude. It's not like that. I don't have a load of things to get off my chest. You've seen in the drinkies thread (and at drinkies) that you'll know that my memory isn't brilliant. I don't notice details a lot of the time and I really do not like remembering this event. I'm generally a very happy person who ignores the bad shit and elevates the good.

I've been thinking about this as much as I ever have and trying to remember specifics.

Abstract bullshit.

 

[Woland]

First world problems.

 

[localny]

Hats off Krump, respect x 50 for the way you explain it all.

 

[the count]

Cheers dude. It's not like that. I don't have a load of things to get off my chest. You've seen in the drinkies thread (and at drinkies) that you'll know that my memory isn't brilliant. I don't notice details a lot of the time and I really do not like remembering this event. I'm generally a very happy person who ignores the bad shit and elevates the good.

I've been thinking about this as much as I ever have and trying to remember specifics.

Abstract bullshit.

I am always there for you buddy.


Hopes Krump didn't notice that I fucked off to bed soon after asking him to bare his soul

 

[Sunny]

I just had something of a Hillsborough 'moment'. Closed my eyes in a busy pub and tried to recall that second that I drited away.

The thing that came back the strongest was a theology group session in lower sixth. When I tried to describe the situation but couldn't because i burst into tears. Those sessions, in St Mary's (private school but I had a scholarship, what with me being dead clever and that, what with all the other cunts being cunts) were a circle, everyone in that form, a time to air views to one of the younger teachers - ironically a young biology teacher - who held together a religious curriculum.

I recall several kids explaining what they would have done. How they would not only have escaped but probably saved those around them. How they were strong and how the events wouldn't have hurt them. I listened, a trembling wreck, and went to speak about what I'd seen. I burst into tears, conscious of the accusing glances but unable to stop. I'd been calling the samaritans every day, just to vocalise what I'd seen. My parents weren't effective sponges.

I'd like to think I'd be far better at this kind of thing than them and I hope it won't be tested but my parents were completely shit. We've still never discussed it. I've never discussed this with anyone. I cried and cried until the session ended. There's a huge abstraction about life and death that is utterly unknowable and indescribable. It must have been very awkward for everyone.

I went to a Christian Brothers school as well on a scholarship mate. I fell asleep once in those theology sessions - got battered