Hendo'n his way out

[dantes]

It begs the question though, how much did he truly believe in the cause?
And if it was a solid PR stunt.. if so was it his own doing was it a club thing pushed on him etc

Shall I answer that for you? He was hardly some sort of sinister liar faking it all for the last decade. He simply lacks the education and intelligence to truly understand what the thing he believes in is all about. He was told to believe it by his lawyers or his agents, because it increases his profile, and therefore his sponsorship revenues and image rights. Not that he even understood that aspect. He's just a mindless commodity being used to generate returns for people. He made a lot of money from that belief. Now he'll make a lot of money from his lack of belief. Fair fucks to him.

But his belief is based on a superficial, almost moronic line of reasoning like "this belief is good, it makes me feel good, Henderson believe, Henderson good, Henderson beat chest". The same logic as most woke fools. So now when the big money comes along, it understandably makes him feel good to a far greater extent than his support of trans rights, that's why he will opt for the money, it's the greater of the two feelings. But it's all just feelings, he knows nothing about trans rights because he never studied it, and he knows nothing about money because he never studied that either. Had he studied it, and held a true belief in those things, he would never ever value his salary above the well being of other people.

This is the issue with woke fools, their woke beliefs are purely a product of their own feelings, their lack of intelligence and education makes them incapable of determining what they ought to objectively believe in and why. So as their feelings change with the wind, their beliefs change with them. If they had any intelligence, then they'd believe in things like capitalism and nothing would alter those beliefs.

 

[dantes]

All he lacks is the Thierry Henry smirk.

 

[rurikbird]

Who forgot to lock the door to the dungeon General Chat forum?

 

[Judge Jules]

I agree about the latter part, Hendo's greatness as a leader being somewhat conditional on the quality of the side he was in.

But I still think Hendo displayed more characteristics of leadership than Gerrard did. Stevie would have been an even more brilliant player in a better side and received the plaudits accordingly. But his strengths were leading by example rather than driving others to be better and representing the club on vital social and other issues.

It's a shame Hendo is going out like this but I don't think this negates any of the tremendous characteristics he has displayed throughout his tenure.

Frankly, I hope in a few years when this blows over, that he will get the recognition and appreciation he is due.

Good post.

Stevie G is one of the greatest players this club's ever had and for me he's a shoo-in for one of the CM slots in the All Time XI alongside Souness. Time after time he pulled our fat out of the fire and won games by a combo of ability and force of personality.

What he was not IMO was a good skipper. Where Hendo drove others around him on to better things, too often Stevie did the opposite, driving them back into their shells by raging at them when they failed to match his level of ability. IMHO he didn't so much lead by example as take the opposition on almost single-handed. The fact that he managed to do it successfully as often as he did shows how incredible a player he was individually, but others around him paid a price for that at times.

 

[binomial]

Shall I answer that for you? He was hardly some sort of sinister liar faking it all for the last decade. He simply lacks the education and intelligence to truly understand what the thing he believes in is all about. He was told to believe it by his lawyers or his agents, because it increases his profile, and therefore his sponsorship revenues and image rights. Not that he even understood that aspect. He's just a mindless commodity being used to generate returns for people. He made a lot of money from that belief. Now he'll make a lot of money from his lack of belief. Fair fucks to him.

But his belief is based on a superficial, almost moronic line of reasoning like "this belief is good, it makes me feel good, Henderson believe, Henderson good, Henderson beat chest". The same logic as most woke fools. So now when the big money comes along, it understandably makes him feel good to a far greater extent than his support of trans rights, that's why he will opt for the money, it's the greater of the two feelings. But it's all just feelings, he knows nothing about trans rights because he never studied it, and he knows nothing about money because he never studied that either. Had he studied it, and held a true belief in those things, he would never ever value his salary above the well being of other people.

This is the issue with woke fools, their woke beliefs are purely a product of their own feelings, their lack of intelligence and education makes them incapable of determining what they ought to objectively believe in and why. So as their feelings change with the wind, their beliefs change with them. If they had any intelligence, then they'd believe in things like capitalism and nothing would alter those beliefs.

I'd say about 80% of this corresponds to the reality of the situation he finds himself in, or so I believe anyway.

Footballers know as much about religious beliefs (other than their own which they probably abandoned after the age of 11) as American businessmen know about English/European football.

Some parts raise an eyebrow however, his agent sure as hell won't be the one advising him on which belief to showcase to the public.....agents are almost if not less intelligent than footballers, they sure as hell are less talented....their only source of income is to latch onto high profile players and ride their coke tails.

Others contradict themselves, on one hand "he'll opt for the money as it's the greater of 2 feelings" yet he doesn't "have the intelligence or background info to understand the oppression trans people face in certain parts of the world"....so in essence there is no feeling there towards them, a greater of 2 feelings would as I understand it would be your heart telling you to stay with your family in your home country because that's what they want or your head telling you to switch to the other side of the world and follow the money.

Anyway I think it's gonna be great when next season we arrange to fly out to Saudi for our pre-season to take on Stevie's new look side, half the side featuring former reds.

 

[rubans]

It begs the question though, how much did he truly believe in the cause?
And if it was a solid PR stunt.. if so was it his own doing was it a club thing pushed on him etc

Just because he took the money today doesn’t mean he never believed in something yesterday.

He may just also appreciate 700k more than human rights, it’s all about priorities.

 

[peekay]

I agree about the latter part, Hendo's greatness as a leader being somewhat conditional on the quality of the side he was in.

But I still think Hendo displayed more characteristics of leadership than Gerrard did. Stevie would have been an even more brilliant player in a better side and received the plaudits accordingly. But his strengths were leading by example rather than driving others to be better and representing the club on vital social and other issues.

It's a shame Hendo is going out like this but I don't think this negates any of the tremendous characteristics he has displayed throughout his tenure.

Frankly, I hope in a few years when this blows over, that he will get the recognition and appreciation he is due.

I am not trying to downplay Henderson's contribution. I am objecting to the statement that he was our greatest captain since Souness. I have not once complained about his move or his willingness to accept coin. Yes, there is a lot of hypocrisy given the stance he has taken in his career, but I get it. In fact, I will go one step further and say that if you travel to South India and interview 100 people on Henderson's move, I am betting not one says "OMG, I cant believe he did that". As I grow older, I have observed that folks who grew up in societies who have observed abject poverty or have been in situations where couple of incorrect life judgement calls can lead to abject poverty often have a sense of pragmatism about these decisions.

I do appreciate Henderson for his various stances. But at the same time, I refuse to put him on the pedestal because deep down inside, we knew he did it because it was convenient and helped his image. Of course, that is still better than most of his contemporaries, but that is because the bar is so low.

All I am saying is that what Gerrard did for us was way more difficult than what Henderson did for us. Gerrard was a super level talent who was always conflicted with his love for our club versus the fact that his talent and application deserved better team mates than the ones our club put alongside him for a decent part of his career. He was courted in a way Henderson wasnt. Leadership has many facets. On the pitch, I couldnt see a better one for us. I believe we would have won one of the two CL finals we lost if he had Gerrard as the captain. I also believe he would have used his stature and physicality to give a response to Ramos's assault on Salah and Everton's assault on half of our team. Gerrard was more complex but I think with a strong manager like Klopp and the teammates around him and with the support of a modern social media PR team, we would have seen a different Gerrard.

 

[keniget]

Anyways, has he gone yet or what?

Him choosing to stay now due to backlash would be the worst outcome.

 

[Whaddapie]

I am not trying to downplay Henderson's contribution. I am objecting to the statement that he was our greatest captain since Souness. I have not once complained about his move or his willingness to accept coin. Yes, there is a lot of hypocrisy given the stance he has taken in his career, but I get it. In fact, I will go one step further and say that if you travel to South India and interview 100 people on Henderson's move, I am betting not one says "OMG, I cant believe he did that". As I grow older, I have observed that folks who grew up in societies who have observed abject poverty or have been in situations where couple of incorrect life judgement calls can lead to abject poverty often have a sense of pragmatism about these decisions.

I do appreciate Henderson for his various stances. But at the same time, I refuse to put him on the pedestal because deep down inside, we knew he did it because it was convenient and helped his image. Of course, that is still better than most of his contemporaries, but that is because the bar is so low.

All I am saying is that what Gerrard did for us was way more difficult than what Henderson did for us. Gerrard was a super level talent who was always conflicted with his love for our club versus the fact that his talent and application deserved better team mates than the ones our club put alongside him for a decent part of his career. He was courted in a way Henderson wasnt. Leadership has many facets. On the pitch, I couldnt see a better one for us. I believe we would have won one of the two CL finals we lost if he had Gerrard as the captain. I also believe he would have used his stature and physicality to give a response to Ramos's assault on Salah and Everton's assault on half of our team. Gerrard was more complex but I think with a strong manager like Klopp and the teammates around him and with the support of a modern social media PR team, we would have seen a different Gerrard.

Stevie G is one of our two or three greatest ever players. He's a god amoungst men and I will love him until I die. But, that doesn't make him a great captain, for the reasons JJ outlines above. I will never think him as good a leader as Hendo (which is hardly a huge insult, by the way, as I think Hendo is a natural, inspirational leader).

Stevie's version of leading was generally screaming at players who made mistakes and then fixing the problem for them by doing everything himself. As JJ says, the fact that he so often could show how magnificent a player he truly was. Hendo, on the other had, leads by driving and inspiring his team do do more, to be better.

Every single individual player on Klopp's team listened to Hendo and responded to him. We were almost always a better team with Hendo on the pitch than without. When Stevie was not playing, though we were without our best player, others often raised their game to compensate for that loss, in a way they wouldn't when he played. Hendo inspired constant, ferocious, snarling, unrelenting excellence. Stevie personified that as a player, but didn't inspire it from his teammates. That's the difference, for me.

 

[Whaddapie]

Shall I answer that for you? He was hardly some sort of sinister liar faking it all for the last decade. He simply lacks the education and intelligence to truly understand what the thing he believes in is all about. He was told to believe it by his lawyers or his agents, because it increases his profile, and therefore his sponsorship revenues and image rights. Not that he even understood that aspect. He's just a mindless commodity being used to generate returns for people. He made a lot of money from that belief. Now he'll make a lot of money from his lack of belief. Fair fucks to him.

But his belief is based on a superficial, almost moronic line of reasoning like "this belief is good, it makes me feel good, Henderson believe, Henderson good, Henderson beat chest". The same logic as most woke fools. So now when the big money comes along, it understandably makes him feel good to a far greater extent than his support of trans rights, that's why he will opt for the money, it's the greater of the two feelings. But it's all just feelings, he knows nothing about trans rights because he never studied it, and he knows nothing about money because he never studied that either. Had he studied it, and held a true belief in those things, he would never ever value his salary above the well being of other people.

This is the issue with woke fools, their woke beliefs are purely a product of their own feelings, their lack of intelligence and education makes them incapable of determining what they ought to objectively believe in and why. So as their feelings change with the wind, their beliefs change with them. If they had any intelligence, then they'd believe in things like capitalism and nothing would alter those beliefs.

Ah, here we are again...

Woke.

The 'insult' constantly hurled by bigots, racists, misogynists and pig-ignorant sub-humans who call others things like "daft retards" because they commit the heinous crime of caring about others.

Somebody please let me know when these two shitgibbons stop hurling their own shit around the forum and crawl back into their dark holes.

 

[peekay]

Stevie G is one of our two or three greatest ever players. He's a god amoungst men and I will love him until I die. But, that doesn't make him a great captain, for the reasons JJ outlines above. I will never think him as good a leader as Hendo (which is hardly a huge insult, by the way, as I think Hendo is a natural, inspirational leader).

Stevie's version of leading was generally screaming at players who made mistakes and then fixing the problem for them by doing everything himself. As JJ says, the fact that he so often could show how magnificent a player he truly was. Hendo, on the other had, leads by driving and inspiring his team do do more, to be better.

Every single individual player on Klopp's team listened to Hendo and responded to him. We were almost always a better team with Hendo on the pitch than without. When Stevie was not playing, though we were without our best player, others often raised their game to compensate for that loss, in a way they wouldn't when he played. Hendo inspired constant, ferocious, snarling, unrelenting excellence. Stevie personified that as a player, but didn't inspire it from his teammates. That's the difference, for me.

Don't remember Stevie G screaming at Alonso, Suarez, Hyppia, Carragher. Put him in a 2019-2021 LFC under Klopp, and would have seen a different Stevie G.

 

[Whaddapie]

Don't remember Stevie G screaming at Alonso, Suarez, Hyppia, Carragher. Put him in a 2019-2021 LFC under Klopp, and would have seen a different Stevie G.

Go and look at Alonso's goal V Luton from the halfway line... What's Stevie doing as Xabi shoots? Just one example. Also, you've named stars on the team that didn't need his leadership as much as other, less-established teammates might have.

And I'm not debating your last point. Never have. But that's a different topic.

 

[tombrown]

Go and look at Alonso's goal V Luton from the halfway line... [hl]What's Stevie doing as Xabi shoots? [/hl] Just one example. Also, you've named stars on the team that didn't need his leadership as much as other, less-established teammates might have.

And I'm not debating your last point. Never have. But that's a different topic.

But that wasn't a captains shout for poor play, it was a "why the fuck didn't you pass it to me, I've got a free run on goal here". If he had been 10 yards further back and the pass was on to Kewell or someone, he probably wouldn't have shouted.

 

[Markeh]

I hope hendo is prepared to reign in his competitiveness, it’s one thing to accept you’re effectively retiring from top level football but it’s another thing switching off your desire to compete.

He’s the one big name player at ettifaq and they’ve already disclosed their transfer budget so it’s not like he’s about to be joined by Neymar and Buffon. Sounds like he’s going to the Saudi spurs.

 

[Frogfish]

I want to publicly associate myself with this. America has its problems, but every country does and my experiences of the US and its people (among them @ctlovesred with whom I've been fortunate enough to have some contact outside the forum) have been overwhelmingly positive.

.

I was in a passionate discussion recently with some seriously knowledgeable people regarding LGBT and the USA (Inc. a couple from the USA).
Leaving the LGBT discussion aside. Basically we all agreed that the USA is not a community as we find in most countries, it is disparate groups of people all using whatever power they have (political, financial, religious) to further their causes to the detriment or denigration of others.
You may say or believe this can be found everywhere but rarely are the boundaries so set in stone and views so immutable that when they bump up against each other violence is the outcome.
That said most of the Americans I've met have been utterly delightful ... or ridiculously nationalist and arrogant cunts. I put that down to them being expatriates or travellers with a wider gamut of views from exposure to numerous and differing cultures.

 

[Dreambeliever]

TBF I'm borderline at that stage now, the games been circling the drain morality wise for a while

I think it’s a case of still supporting but forgetting the ‘this means more’ or that we are special in any way shape or form as a club if it does happen. Feels inevitable sadly.

 

[Dreambeliever]

I'd rather live in Saudi than USA.

Saudi is pretty putrid to live in, but there are a large number of middle Eastern and Muslim countries I’d live in over the USA.

 

[Dreambeliever]

One of the reason I call hypocrisy on this moralising on this [single] issue of gay rights is that we’ve only just shed off prejudice against sexual divergence in this country. Only this week has the MoD finally apologised to veterans who were discriminated against, some having promotions blocked or demoted several ranks all because of their sexuality. And, it’s all very well to then apologise now but the untold damage has already been done. It was part of the culture here as recently as 2000. I didn’t hear all the strident voices campaigning on their behalf that are now trying to get at football players.

That’s my last word on this as it seems to go round and round in circles.

What’s the phrase? Reformed smokers are the most judgemental?

 

[ctlovesred]

I was in a passionate discussion recently with some seriously knowledgeable people regarding LGBT and the USA (Inc. a couple from the USA).
Leaving the LGBT discussion aside. Basically we all agreed that the USA is not a community as we find in most countries, it is disparate groups of people all using whatever power they have (political, financial, religious) to further their causes to the detriment or denigration of others.
You may say or believe this can be found everywhere but rarely are the boundaries so set in stone and views so immutable that when they bump up against each other violence is the outcome.
That said most of the Americans I've met have been utterly delightful ... or ridiculously nationalist and arrogant cunts. I put that down to them being expatriates or travellers with a wider gamut of views from exposure to numerous and differing cultures.

Definitely right about there not being a single unified culture or community in the US. Too big, too many people, too many different climates and traditions. Too much immigration (not as a bad thing - legal immigration anyway - simply that it further diversifies the culture).

Disagree about the second point. Most Americans with strong views are just like any other nationality with strong views. The violence people read about is less a result of opinionated people and more of drugs, power, abuse, and lacking love. Again, those things are hardly specific to the Americans.

Larger scale stuff like Antifa is fully astroturfed. Funded and organized by monied elite to disrupt and profit. Just like the largest conservative activist groups. Power is all that matters to the elite in Washington and picking sides is just theater meant to rally the idiots.

As for LGBT - it is among the most powerful interest groups in America. Don't let anyone fool you otherwise. A teacher can be fired for "misgendering" someone. That's real power. Individually there are those who suffer from bad treatment, no doubt. Just as there are people of all groups who suffer from bad treatment at an individual scale. Make no mistake, the LGBT lobby holds sway over politicians, big corporate America, Hollywood, and media. Much greater than the NRA, for example, who gets all the attention.

I love my country and the precepts upon which it was created. We've wandered and failed a lot along the way but I'd never want to permanently live elsewhere.

 

[Dreambeliever]

The 'lol hendo is a total fucking hypocrite and looks a right tool' thing is a seperate convo to this morality top trumps bs.

Anyone can do what they want. When someone has been championing a cause but turns heel as soon as someone waives a few quid at them, damaging the cause they claimed they were backing and burning a load of bridges in the meantime, they should and will be mocked.

Deciding which country is the biggest load of shit has manifold other factors.

Fair point

 

[Dreambeliever]

Good post.

Stevie G is one of the greatest players this club's ever had and for me he's a shoo-in for one of the CM slots in the All Time XI alongside Souness. Time after time he pulled our fat out of the fire and won games by a combo of ability and force of personality.

What he was not IMO was a good skipper. Where Hendo drove others around him on to better things, too often Stevie did the opposite, driving them back into their shells by raging at them when they failed to match his level of ability. IMHO he didn't so much lead by example as take the opposition on almost single-handed. The fact that he managed to do successfully as often as he did shows how incredible a player he was individually, but others around him paid a price for that at times.

You can’t have the first paragraph and then say he wasn’t a good skipper. Ideally your captain does both but each of these set of qualities on their own can make a great captain. Gerrard inspired his teammates and the fans like nobody else had before or after. He lacked what Henderson brings but there are a huge number of players who respond to a captain who leads by example and is the best player in the team by a country mile more often than not and walks the walk when the chips are down.

 

[dantes]

I'd say about 80% of this corresponds to the reality of the situation he finds himself in, or so I believe anyway.

Footballers know as much about religious beliefs (other than their own which they probably abandoned after the age of 11) as American businessmen know about English/European football.

Some parts raise an eyebrow however, his agent sure as hell won't be the one advising him on which belief to showcase to the public.....agents are almost if not less intelligent than footballers, they sure as hell are less talented....their only source of income is to latch onto high profile players and ride their coke tails.

Others contradict themselves, on one hand "he'll opt for the money as it's the greater of 2 feelings" yet he doesn't "have the intelligence or background info to understand the oppression trans people face in certain parts of the world"....so in essence there is no feeling there towards them, a greater of 2 feelings would as I understand it would be your heart telling you to stay with your family in your home country because that's what they want or your head telling you to switch to the other side of the world and follow the money.

Anyway I think it's gonna be great when next season we arrange to fly out to Saudi for our pre-season to take on Stevie's new look side, half the side featuring former reds.

There is no need to drill down into the particular feelings, and give them names. It is easier to lump them together into good feelings and bad feelings, things that make you feel good, things that make you feel bad. It's nothing to do with what you feel for the other party, it's the feeling you experience yourself in your own brain. Wearing a rainbow armband and taking a knee made him feel good. Earning half a million a week tax free makes him feel more good. That's it.

 

[dantes]

Ah, here we are again...

Woke.

The 'insult' constantly hurled by bigots, racists, misogynists and pig-ignorant sub-humans who call others things like "daft retards" because they commit the heinous crime of caring about others.

Somebody please let me know when these two shitgibbons stop hurling their own shit around the forum and crawl back into their dark holes.

There is no circumstance in which I would tell binomial or anyone else here to go die. You did that a few posts ago. I don't give a shit what possessed your brain to come to that sort of reaction, you're just a piece of shit for even thinking about uttering something like that. I'm not a piece of shit. Now that's cleared up, I don't give a flying fuck what you say or think, for that same reason, namely that you're a piece of utterly despicable shit. Now fuck off.

 

[Whaddapie]

There is no circumstance in which I would tell binomial or anyone else here to go die. You did that a few posts ago. I don't give a shit what possessed your brain to come to that sort of reaction, you're just a piece of shit for even thinking about uttering something like that. I'm not a piece of shit. Now that's cleared up, I don't give a flying fuck what you say or think, for that same reason, namely that you're a piece of utterly despicable shit. Now fuck off.

Hey... Your didn't say 'woke'. Or 'retard'. Well done. Do you need to lie down now? Or did somebody else write it for you?

 

[Mamma Mia]

Holy shit, I've only been busy for a week and come back to all this!

So many incredible things all at once.

 

[mom]

I’ve had too much beer and my coordination has gone. I can’t seem to hit page 28 of this thread without hitting either 27 or 29. Can some kind soul sum up what happened on page 28 sil vous plait

 

[tombrown]

I like to believe in humanity and care for others. That's is my faith.

I don't care if Cuntes calls me woke for that, I am repeatedly disappointed when people I admire show a lack of humanity.

At least Ian McCulloch is a good guy, albeit an egotistical bastard.

 

[dantes]

Aww you care, that's sweet. It's the thought that counts. A pity for the several thousand children who are now homeless due to crippling inflation and interest rates that your retarded idea of being a caring human being has accidentally caused.

You only care enough to get the feels pumping. You don't care enough to open up a book and learn what will actually help the people you virtue signal your care for. No, that requires actual work and intelligence. Fuck that shit. Just take a knee like Hendo and jobs a good un!

You are absolutely a woke fool. Your faith and your notion of care is up there with the catholic church.

 

[tombrown]

I am unimpacted by your cunt juice rhetoric

 

[Dreambeliever]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CumZv0OLCRJ/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==