Henderson.

[manwithnoname]

It wasn't that I didn't think he could play holding midfield, but I posited - not unreasonably - that a large part of what makes Henderson effective is his non-stop workrate, stamina and ability to get around the pitch quickly, and that a more restrained role would remove that aspect, and not really leave much behind.

But he's still getting around, and he's performing well in a slightly more disciplined position, making plenty of tackles and using the ball intelligently.

 

[TSD]

It helps that Henderson is a good study of the game and wants to improve in a position he's learning to be in. The only limitation now is his inability to turn out of trouble in tight spaces - and I think it's very hard to acquire this at this age -- but otherwise he's really good in the role.

 

[doctor_mac]

It wasn't that I didn't think he could play holding midfield, but I posited - not unreasonably - that a large part of what makes Henderson effective is his non-stop workrate, stamina and ability to get around the pitch quickly, and that a more restrained role would remove that aspect, and not really leave much behind.

But he's still getting around, and he's performing well in a slightly more disciplined position, making plenty of tackles and using the ball intelligently.

Yes, his stamina and fitness are crucial. If the PL distance stats are anything to go by, Hendo is feeling very confident in his body again, and even though that hasn't meant him arriving at the edge of the box very often (oh how we have missed his gamboling on the 18 yard line as the net bulges), he is patrolling that deeper midfield exceptionally well. His range of passing has always been excellent and he already has a good handful of defence -splitting passes from deep that gives us a real variety in our means of attack. He is having a great season.

 

[FoxForceFive]

It helps that Henderson is a good study of the game and wants to improve in a position he's learning to be in. The only limitation now is his inability to turn out of trouble in tight spaces - and I think it's very hard to acquire this at this age -- but otherwise he's really good in the role.

He can't do it. He just doesn't seem to have that in his locker.

Klopp seems to have helped him address it most of the time, but it would be nice if he could make up a yard or two with the ball & in doing so allow others players to get into space ahead of him.

As it is the players around most of the time help him make he relevant passes forwards, instead of having to go backwards, but that may not always be the case (against Utd without Wijnaldum he passed backwards a lot more).

 

[manwithnoname]

He can't do it. He just doesn't seem to have that in his locker.

Klopp seems to have helped him address it most of the time, but it would be nice if he could make up a yard or two with the ball & in doing so allow others players to get into space ahead of him.

Yeah, he's not exactly able to turn on a sixpence is he? Looks more like a rocking horse trying to negotiate a minefield.

 

[FoxForceFive]

He's at least aware of it though. Some players try to turn with it anyway & look perplexed when it continually gets taken off them. Hendo negates it by passing sideways or backwards then tries to get into a better position to make himself an option to play a forward pass.

Like I said, it works most of the time cos players around him are intelligent enough to make it work, but against teams that man mark & press very well it's definitely an issue.

Whilst using alonso & molby as examples may be unfair, I'm gonna do it anyway.

The could both stand more or less in the centre circle facing either way, then use their turning ability &/or strength on the ball to create yards more space & that extra time allowed players to get into space & make runs, so those fantastic forward passes we remember them for were possible.

 

[Oliver Twist]

Time for some humble pie. Henderson has been one of our most consistent players this season so far.
Really didn't think he'd adapt to that defensive role. Took him a few games to get it right, his positioning is a lot better, he's winning the ball, tackling and distributing. Of course he isn't perfect but he absolutely looks the part.

Yep, I'll take a slice of your pie as well. Even at the start of this season I had my doubts but, on the whole, he's been excellent. Kudos.

 

[Mystic]

Back on topic, Horrenderson was fine for ages and I'm sure it will be again. A footy club of our stature shouldn't be buying kids who clearly aren't good enough, throwing them in the deep end and waiting four years while they learn how to be boss. But whatever, he's playing very well now.

He clearly was talented, and he was a great purchase at the time, problem was he was shifted out of position and expectations were set way too high, he was always going to take a year or two to get going. Still, even back then, many of us could see what would he was all about and it was always a matter of time with the kid, he had the right attitude, and he had the talent, you have to take a chance on kids, we didn't take a chance on Dele Alli and we regret it now, but thankfully took that chance on Jordan and we're reaping the rewards now, he's a super player, and I'd argue would probably get into any midfield in the league.

 

[TSD]

He's at least aware of it though. Some players try to turn with it anyway & look perplexed when it continually gets taken off them. Hendo negates it by passing sideways or backwards then tries to get into a better position to make himself an option to play a forward pass.

Like I said, it works most of the time cos players around him are intelligent enough to make it work, but against teams that man mark & press very well it's definitely an issue.

Whilst using alonso & molby as examples may be unfair, I'm gonna do it anyway.

The could both stand more or less in the centre circle facing either way, then use their turning ability &/or strength on the ball to create yards more space & that extra time allowed players to get into space & make runs, so those fantastic forward passes we remember them for were possible.

Henderson's intelligent enough to apply the awareness of his limitation and make it work. Also Klopp's masterstroke of using Lallana and Wijnaldum in midfield, in close proximity, to be those players who can navigate tight spaces. A Dahoud as our no. 6 could take it to the next level. Would certainly change the dynamism at least. Just like how Can plays it differently from Henderson.

 

[FoxForceFive]

Henderson's intelligent enough to apply the awareness of his limitation and make it work. Also Klopp's masterstroke of using Lallana and Wijnaldum in midfield, in close proximity, to be those players who can navigate tight spaces. A Dahoud as our no. 6 could take it to the next level. Would certainly change the dynamism at least. Just like how Can plays it differently from Henderson.

Yeah, I hope the rumours about Dahoud are true. It'd be good if Stewart got a shot at the first team at some point too, but it's unlikely.

 

[Atlas]

One of the lowest moments on this forum was when someone said compared Alonsos turning circle with the titanics and that we should buy Gareth Barry.

 

[manwithnoname]

He clearly was talented, and he was a great purchase at the time, problem was he was shifted out of position and expectations were set way too high, he was always going to take a year or two to get going. Still, even back then, many of us could see what would he was all about and it was always a matter of time with the kid, he had the right attitude, and he had the talent, you have to take a chance on kids, we didn't take a chance on Dele Alli and we regret it now, but thankfully took that chance on Jordan and we're reaping the rewards now, he's a super player, and I'd argue would probably get into any midfield in the league.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Henderson is a decent player, and perhaps lots of the frustration was due to unflattering Gerrard comparisons and the captaincy.

But let's not pretend he's amazing or anything. He's a valuable and consistent 7/10 type of player.

And all great teams have one.

 

[Modo]

Like others here have alluded to, our midfield trio complete each other. Henderson can't turn Wijnaldum and Lallana got that covered.
Lallana is slow. Wijnaldum and Hendo got that covered.
None of them can head the ball, we all pray to God that the second ball winds up with one of our players.

 

[manwithnoname]

One of the lowest moments on this forum was when someone said compared Alonsos turning circle with the titanics and that we should buy Gareth Barry.

Alonso wasn't the most mobile midfielder, but it's fucking retarded to use Gareth Barry as some kind of preferable alternative, given he's not exactly Captain Zip, either.

Although he's a good player. Just not as good as Xabi.

 

[Atlas]

Henderson has more passes to his name than anyone else in the league so far, the tippy tappy bellend

 

[cloggypop]

Ready Salted

 

[manwithnoname]

Ready Salted

Ha. Yes.

It's a really good description if you wish to view it positively. There's certainly none of the nuclear explosion pyrotechnics that Gerrard often provided, and Henderson is very much a plainer, more humdrum type of crisp compared to Gerrard's spicy Nik Naks

But ready-salted is solid, dependable and eternally popular flavour. Perhaps a bit common or plain even, but every picnic hamper needs crisps.

It's a more colourful way of expressing a sometimes easily overlooked 7/10 type of player. He has proven the value of a reliable, solid ready-salted footballing option.

Great that I can combine early perspicacity and sound judgement with an interesting and memorable turn of phrase, remembered by my fans several years later

 

[Oliver Twist]

Great that I can combine early perspicacity and sound judgement with an interesting and memorable turn of phrase, remembered by my fans several years later

Careful. This is bordering on self-deprecation.

 

[Leo]

I think there was a massive internet pole not so long ago where Walkers ready salted were voted the worst crisp in Britain.
I agree too.
If I'm indulging in something unhealthy I want it to be something that's not bland and fairly middle of the road.
Give me pickled onion or roast beef monster munch any day before them.

 

[Skullflower]

he's not a striker, though. we wont win the league.

 

[Mystic]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Henderson is a decent player, and perhaps lots of the frustration was due to unflattering Gerrard comparisons and the captaincy.

But let's not pretend he's amazing or anything. He's a valuable and consistent 7/10 type of player.

And all great teams have one.

That definitely weighed him down in the beginning, he was on to a hiding from the start, but to claim he's a seven out of ten player is undervaluing him massively. He's had some superb performances this season, against Spurs and Chelsea for example he was fantastic, he's a huge component in our success this far. He'll always be underrated because he's not a glamorous player, but that doesn't in anyway change how good he is, I stand by my comment, he'd walk the starting eleven of any team in the league, that might be because there's a lack of real quality central midfielders in the league, but the point stands.

 

[manwithnoname]

There certainly *seems* to be less obviously great midfielders around, but that might just be imagination

I like plenty of them; Kante, the lad at Everton, Dembele, Wanyama, Pogba, Drinkwater, but while there seems to be specialists in there still, there seems to be more teams playing with non-traditional players in central positions:

Lallana, Cazorla, De Bruyne (although that's a weird hybrid position, sort of inside left/ right) etc

 

[Mystic]

It's something rurik has touched on many times, how football is evolving towards more technical players taking the positions tradionally associated with the hard working grafters. We're certainly an example of that, as are City, and Arsenal have always tried it. For us, Lallana and Wijnaldum are both left wingers, but they're operating incredibly well as a midfield three with Henderson and we're causing lots of more tradional midfields problems as a result.

As a side, I think it's part of the reason Mourinho is struggling so, football is getting more technical, and teams are better suited to deal with his well disciplined defensive football as a result. But then, maybe I'm just searching too hard for a reason to label him as a tactically backwards fossil.

 

[cloggypop]

Wijnaldum is not a left winger. He is a midfielder who can also play out wide.

 

[manwithnoname]

Mourinho has been open about his preference for 'specialists' since day one.

He struggles with anything else.

Pogba may yet be another, but if you spend 90m on a player who everyone wanted, I suspect he will be more patient, even if it doesn't seem that obvious where he should play right now

 

[FoxForceFive]

I think there was a massive internet pole not so long ago where Walkers ready salted were voted the worst crisp in Britain.
I agree too.
If I'm indulging in something unhealthy I want it to be something that's not bland and fairly middle of the road.
Give me pickled onion or roast beef monster munch any day before them.

I think the older you get the more you appreciate plain crisps.

I'm not sure it happens to everyone, but certainly in my experience you begin to prefer stronger tasting foods in general, but more safe & reliable flavours of snacks.

I used to love pickled onion monster munch & spicy nik naks, but they use don't hit the same spot they used to.

 

[Mamma Mia]

I think the older you get the more you appreciate plain crisps.

I'm not sure it happens to everyone, but certainly in my experience you begin to prefer stronger tasting foods in general, but more safe & reliable flavours of snacks.

I used to love pickled onion monster munch & spicy nik naks, but they use don't hit the same spot they used to.

They sure don't msg them like they used to.

 

[cloggypop]

I think the older you get the more you appreciate plain crisps.

I'm not sure it happens to everyone, but certainly in my experience you begin to prefer stronger tasting foods in general, but more safe & reliable flavours of snacks.

I used to love pickled onion monster munch & spicy nik naks, but they use don't hit the same spot they used to.

You'll be reading the Daily Mail, buying slippers and voting UKIP soon.

 

[manwithnoname]

I think the older you get the more you appreciate plain crisps.

I'm not sure it happens to everyone, but certainly in my experience you begin to prefer stronger tasting foods in general, but more safe & reliable flavours of snacks.

I used to love pickled onion monster munch & spicy nik naks, but they use don't hit the same spot they used to.

Hmmm. There was a pack of Monster Munch consumed in the journey back from Liverpool yesterday and it smelled very familiar. Like a dead crow.

Not the pickled ones, that other flavour in the yellow bag. Beef or something

 

[FoxForceFive]

You'll be reading the Daily Mail, buying slippers and voting UKIP soon.

I bought slippers on Wednesday. My toes were cold in the house so seemed the best course of action.

Dammit.

I'd be in my grave before I really the daily fail or voted UKIP though.