[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=44498.msg1298661#msg1298661 date=1299836951]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44498.msg1298575#msg1298575 date=1299807195]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=44498.msg1298533#msg1298533 date=1299792394]
But not to be a first team regular. Not if we want to win titles.
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Not if he, inexplicably, stagnates right now JJ.
However, if he makes the improvements which are obviously possible such as shooting and removal of silly fouls I'll have no problem with him being a genuine competitor for the first team.
To be completely honest he's been one of our better players this season in the opinion of most LFC supporters as evidenced by the man of the match table Morse provides. We're currently 6th and most of us, I believe, would agree that had Kenny taken over a month or even two months earlier then we'd be far closer to City, Spurs and the Chavs.
We all sit back and say he's not good enough but he's commanding a spot in one of the form teams of the table and considered one of the better performers over the season. That should count for something. He's a long way from the 2nd coming, he won't ever reach Gerrards level nor be a talisman at any club IMO but using that as a stick to beat him with while ignoring the other facts would be blind and naive.
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This is symptomatic of our decline though. That such a 'steady eddie' could be deemed one of our better players is a reflection of the dross we've been subjected to. And I'm not surprised he is doing well in Morse's league table, because he has shown a marked improvement - he is clearly working hard, has an excellent attitude, and these qualities endear him to fans. What's more, our expectations of him are low, so when he exceeds them, we reward him for it. Consequently, he ends up being judged by his own standards, rather than by those of Liverpool Football Club. It's like we've forgotten what those are. And therein lies the problem.
Our star players (both present and defected) have been poor this season by their standards, but I would still wager they have had a greater impact than Lucas. It's just that they've been so far below our expectations of them that any rating we give them in Morse's thread is a reflection of how we think they performed relative to their ability. It is not so much a measure of who is our best, or most influential player, but who has impressed us on any given day. And in a season so desperately lacking in quality, it's no surprise that we've chosen to reward perseverance and endeavour.
The minute we've got some genuine quality back (cf Suarez), Lucas will feature less and less in the top 3 (and hopefully in our starting line-up). And then perhaps we'll begin to realise what we should have been aspiring to.
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I just don't go along with this, Del.
I know plenty have been espousing the concept that Lucas gets a sympathy vote or is judged to a standard far lower than the rest of the players. I don't buy that in the slightest. If anything I think some of our better players in fact get judged in the opposite manner - they put in a poor performance but are remembered for what they have accomplished and supported accordingly.
Look at the players who've spent most time in the team this season - who's been consistently better? I don't think Gerrard has been performing as well as the table suggests but I'll let him go because I do think he's been one of if not our best player thus far. After that I think Ming has been a standout with a series of matches where he was outstanding.
Torres was not scoring goals nor looking particularly interested on many occasions, Kuyt has been as industrious as ever but the lack of goals from Fernando exposed just how few goals our hardest working Dutchman actually scores. Maxi had a few solid performances but is nowhere near involved enough, hard enough working or precise enough for what we've wanted. Cole has been injured and off the pace while Poulsen I can barely bring myself to mention.
Agger had a few games where he was very good, several where he was distinctly average and - sadly - a number where he was injured. Carra and Skrtel have both fluctuated between poor, average and acceptable while Johnson was almost a liability before switching to LB. The reason for his switch to the other side of the field is one of our bright spots in Kelly who has had some very good games. Finally, Pepe at the very back has been unsettled and not of his highest form.
With all that I'd still have Stevie on top, Ming would be in behind him and Kelly just a little off the Portugese. After that I think Lucas has been, genuinely, our next best player. No sympathy involved at all - he's been picked in the team on merit and been in our top 5 through sheer performance.
No doubt people could still argue that this is because others are badly off form and Lucas - as the steady eddie - has simply seen the performance line dip below his standard. Having said that he's been through three managers of wildly differing approaches and personalities but maintained a regular spot under all three of them. I was far from Rafa's biggest fan but respected what he had done, wanted Roy to do well but couldn't see it happening and been very pleased with all that Kenny has achieved thus far. Through it all Lucas has convinced them all he should be in the team and, ultimately, that says more about his performance level than even our MoM summaries - which I do believe hold high merit.
