Agree with this. The Leicester game shows he can lead the line on his own in a Klopp side (though I think he's at his lethal best in a pair upfront). Whether he can physically keep up with this level of play is the big question.
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Agree with this. The Leicester game shows he can lead the line on his own in a Klopp side (though I think he's at his lethal best in a pair upfront). Whether he can physically keep up with this level of play is the big question.
This is partly it. I think Firmino is a good player. But I don't like him as a striker, and I do miss aspects of how we play if/ when certain types of striker don't seem to "fit" that system. I just love watching deadly, quality finishers scoring goals. I'm sure we had (I know we had) similar debate about Crouch and Baros being "great team players" and allowing others to score. Didn't like them either.
Certainly watching Gerrard ping balls over the top for Torres/ Owen/ whoever to run onto is an aspect of play I miss a bit, but all I really care about is winning, so it's not a massive issue.
The question is, can we win a title with this squad and playing style?
And it isn't just about goals scored, obviously.
I think we can. But if, & only if, we have players who can do the same or a very similar job to come in.
When we lost Lallana recently we looked a different side. That loss of pressing & ability to play one touch passes & quick turns high up the pitch, even from just one player, was huge to our playing style.
When we lost Lallana recently we looked a different side. That loss of pressing & ability to play one touch passes & quick turns high up the pitch, even from just one player, was huge to our playing style.
i hated watching them utterly struggle to score when teams parked the bus. we now seem to be able to score whatever we're faced. it's boss.
Of course, the advantage is it's much easier (& cheaper) to find a player who can work hard & play one touch passing to replace Lallana, firmino or even Coutinho, than it is to find a replacement for say sturridge, when he gets injured.
In theory that's a big advantage to playing this way.
In theory that's a big advantage to playing this way.
Utd parked the bus pretty successfully though.
I don't feel the defence is terrible, far from it. Personally I think it is much improved, with the exception of the keeper, and is steadily getting better. No doubt Matip and Milner have a lot to do with that. We have paid heavily for any defensive mistakes and haven't got away with much so far this season but the clean sheets will come. Anyone who cannot see the progress from last season must have a blind spot
so we don't do it one time and that's meant to mean we haven't got well better at dealing with it? I feel like galileo in here sometimes.
Ha.
We've definitely got better at it, Burnley & Utd are the only sides who have successfully done it.
We have three players the opposition have to constantly worry about scoring & many ways of bypassing them.
In years gone by (13/14 excluded), you could stop Gerrard playong or stop Torres getting on the ball & we'd be toothless.
I was just pointing out that parking the bus will still be effective at times, esp when we are forced to change any of our hard working front players or midfield, so it's still a case of having the personnel to carry out the game plan.
Man U did very well to nullify our game * spits * but they were aided to no end by the twin absence of Lallana and Wijnaldum, the grease to our wheel.
Which is kinda my point.
Whilst everyone espouses the system we play as being better than a striker scoring all your goals, it suffers a similar issue, remove a key player & it doesn't perform as well.
I did add that finding a player to slot in is much easier than finding a free scoring striker though.
I think we were also hampered by the fact that Can had barely played, and looked very rusty.
I guess Firmino isn't the Perfect clinical striker, but until Sturridge figure out how we want to play he is the only option.
Sturridge problem is the movement without the ball. If we have it or the opposition has it we need an intensive and demanding movement from the striker. I am unsure if Sturrdige is capable/physical enough to take on that role. So even if Firmino ain't Lewandowski on the goalscoring side, he is the best we got in this position. I really believe that Sturridge has shown he has the trick and skills to actually take on the position, but he has been a letdown when given the chances so far. He must stop focusing on himself and do the job for the team. He did so against Leicester(?) and was one of the best players but we need to see it every single time. That is what we expect of a team fighting for the title. Firmino might not have a higher toplevel than Studge but his average is head and shoulder above. And Studge is not really comepting With Firmino for a Place, cause the Brasilian would feature anyway. So if we can find a more clinical striker With same workrate and attitude as Firmino it would give us more to play on. And it will be crucial come African Nations Cup.
The reason we don't see that many throughballs is that teams are very aware of our front four. Even Palace at Selhurst park packed their area throughout the first half to not give us any space. And when they had to move People forward to Chase the game we had a few throughballs. The good thing is that we seem capable of creating chances even when teams does this now. Previously, when having that clinical striker upfront, we have normally failed to create those chances. So I prefer the status of today rather than being a top six Chaser relying on a quick clinical striker hitting a few because the opposition gives us some space. We have a hell of a register to play at at the moment, and we have some back up as well.
Studge - Can come on and do a job.
Origi - Can be a good asset if given some games and sharepning up.
Wijnaldum - Unlucky to not cement a Place due to tough competition
A few youngster as well
All these factors combined has helped us move forward. We are among the title contenders, we are enroute for second consecutive final in League cup, and we still have FA cup to come. All isn't Perfect, but we are in a hell of a much better position than most other teams.
We are still work in progress. But Jurgen Klopp has shown that what he did in Bundesliga was not a fluke. He knows what he wants his players to do, and he is willing to compromise on defensive strengths to leverage from offensive strengths. It has allways been said that the first thing to do to secure success is to build defensive structure, but we have shown that we do it differently.
People moan a lot about fragile defence. Yes it is Things to work on. But the total looks good. The team seem capable of handling whatever is thrown at them, and that shows real character, not the kind of "character" we showed when getting one back when being 3 down.
Sturridge problem is the movement without the ball. If we have it or the opposition has it we need an intensive and demanding movement from the striker. I am unsure if Sturrdige is capable/physical enough to take on that role. So even if Firmino ain't Lewandowski on the goalscoring side, he is the best we got in this position. I really believe that Sturridge has shown he has the trick and skills to actually take on the position, but he has been a letdown when given the chances so far. He must stop focusing on himself and do the job for the team. He did so against Leicester(?) and was one of the best players but we need to see it every single time. That is what we expect of a team fighting for the title. Firmino might not have a higher toplevel than Studge but his average is head and shoulder above. And Studge is not really comepting With Firmino for a Place, cause the Brasilian would feature anyway. So if we can find a more clinical striker With same workrate and attitude as Firmino it would give us more to play on. And it will be crucial come African Nations Cup.
The reason we don't see that many throughballs is that teams are very aware of our front four. Even Palace at Selhurst park packed their area throughout the first half to not give us any space. And when they had to move People forward to Chase the game we had a few throughballs. The good thing is that we seem capable of creating chances even when teams does this now. Previously, when having that clinical striker upfront, we have normally failed to create those chances. So I prefer the status of today rather than being a top six Chaser relying on a quick clinical striker hitting a few because the opposition gives us some space. We have a hell of a register to play at at the moment, and we have some back up as well.
Studge - Can come on and do a job.
Origi - Can be a good asset if given some games and sharepning up.
Wijnaldum - Unlucky to not cement a Place due to tough competition
A few youngster as well
All these factors combined has helped us move forward. We are among the title contenders, we are enroute for second consecutive final in League cup, and we still have FA cup to come. All isn't Perfect, but we are in a hell of a much better position than most other teams.
We are still work in progress. But Jurgen Klopp has shown that what he did in Bundesliga was not a fluke. He knows what he wants his players to do, and he is willing to compromise on defensive strengths to leverage from offensive strengths. It has allways been said that the first thing to do to secure success is to build defensive structure, but we have shown that we do it differently.
People moan a lot about fragile defence. Yes it is Things to work on. But the total looks good. The team seem capable of handling whatever is thrown at them, and that shows real character, not the kind of "character" we showed when getting one back when being 3 down.
I didnt say this place is like Fox news. I meant your specific arguments.
Regarding the Guardiola vs Mourinho there have been lot of very good points made in ruriks thread about the differences between the two. If you do not get the differences, I see no point in belaboring the points here.
Agree with you in general about having a reliable goal scorer and good defense.
I dont think Klopp is incapable of building a system around Sturridge. If Sturridge was available as much as Firmino I think Klopp would have built our attack around him. I think Klopp took a decision as he felt it was too risky to build a system around Sturridge.
Regarding past great players - Rush, Torres, and a younger Gerrard would have fun gegen pressing the living daylights out of our opposition. Owen is the only person whom I cannot see fitting the system. Fowler the player could play in the Klopp system but he would need oxygen and glucose drips after 4 minutes of pressing.
No-one likes a rusty Can.
It's probably the raging narcissism.
Errrr didn't Firmino do exactly that yesterday ? Or did I dream it.
For someone who is basing this thread on facts and stats that is either totally inept research or you are being deliberately misleading.
Ladies and gentlemen :
- Actually it's EIGHT teams have in reality conceded LESS than we have (not up to 14 as Brendan would have you believe).
- And as for the conceded twice as many goals as anyone else in the Top 8 or so ... that is complete and utter codswallop. In actual fact there is only one team that even comes close to that x2 figure which is Spurs (who may have only conceded 5 but they have also only scored 14 compared to our 24, meaning we still have a superior GD by +2). City have conceded 4 less in 10 games and Arsenal just 3 goals less ... and both have had inferior schedules to ours so far.
For fuck sake. They had a strong defence and a reliable striker banging in them goals. It is Your dream scenario!!! You should come in Your pants if we followed that, instead you ridicule it???
Right, so by highlighting the amount of goals Leicester conceded at this point (17 goals in 10 games apparently), he is actually reinforcing the argument about having a good defence?
All OVER the fucking place, some of you
- As has been shown we do NOT have a terrible defence. A lot has made of the goals we've conceded but we've only played an unchanged back line ONCE this season and 5 of those goals came in the first 2 matches (without Matip and with Moreno and Mignolet), with 8 in the following 8 (a PL winning team statistically should be at 0.97 so it's not like we are a million miles away and can't recover that with some defensive stability and with easier opposition to come). We are obviously getting there with Milner, Clyne, Matip and Lovren and Karius may just need time as do so many other players new to the PL and the UK.
Hate to keep banging on about the fact that he was rated #2 in the BL last season but if we were to use his first few games here (and it is just very few) as an indication of his quality then obviously he'd have been nowhere near getting voted #2 by his peers last season. - I've previously posted on here (within the last 2 years surely) a statistical breakdown of the goalscorers of PL winning teams over the past 10-15 years (I forget exactly what period I covered). In general you are right, the majority of winning teams had a prolific goalscorer, with say 23-28 goals and maybe a second in the high teens. However there have been exceptions to that, one in particular had about 16-17 goals for their top scorer but another 3 players also at 14-16 goals. So it can be won with Henry, RvN types or with the goals spread around the team.
- I'd agree of course with your statement above but we are not there. BTW United won it one season with the 5th worst defence in the league.
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They still won the League didn't they?
You can say what you want, but as the true factseeker you are they ad a poorer defence than our "gobshite" by the start of last season and still managed to win the title (which is all that Counts?) by the end of last season. It is all facts! I didn't make up any of it, while you want to ridicule their "winning formula".... Hahahaha
Gobshite? Who? Rodgers? The team? If so, it's a bit rich you getting all fucking precious about people remotely criticising our lack of a goalscorer.
I meant that our defence is repeatedly referered to as poor/gobshite/schocking etc.... The start of last season was a reference to Leicester and not us. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
And the lack of goalscorer have so far been replaced by having a few proper matchwinners. Will it last? Is it enough? I believe in what we are doing and trust that we will adress issues if needed when we can. So far I like the season and enjoy that instead of worrying about things that we seem to control.
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