The thought of us getting an arsenal player must be killing you!
Firmino
- Thread starter redhorizon2
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Spurs and Chelsea are above us not because of how many goals they have scored, but how many they have conceeded. We are up there with the best for goals scored. But we're like a sieve defensively. If we score 3 goals away to Bournemouth we shouldn't be losing. If we score 2 at home to shit teams like Sunderland and Swansea we should be taking the full 3 points. Not saying we shouldn't get a goalscorer, but it's not our goalscoring which has fucked us this season.
How do you get there? You think it makes a difference who is actually scoring the goals? Not how many you are scoring overall? And, maybe, how many you are conceding could well be influential also.
Why? Who cares where a player comes from if they improve us.
You haven't really followed Silver Sean's posts, have you?
.... and yet we've scored more than both teams - so it's more of an irrelevance than a coincidence.
... and to debunk another popular myth - our league position has little to do with Mane being at the AFCON in January.
I think it was a fair question to ask given that it was Brendan who initiated and perpetuated that "shitfest".
The lines were drawn on Firmino ages ago. Brendan would continually lambast him even in the guise of faint praise, when he had a good/great game, and claimed we were all wrong and he would be proven right as usual. And now he's nothing to say, either in defence of his position or in admitting he may have been too hasty in determining his stance.
Besides the Firmino debate is at least interesting!
It's a bit different missing chances though when you're the leading striker and you're already scoring 20-30 goals a season. I really like Firmino, but we do lack a clinical edge at times infront of goal. His goals record this season is decent if he finishes with around 15. Rushie scored 61 in his first two full seasons, Firmino has 23 so far.
But Brendan doesn't not rate Firmino, so you've missed the point. His stance has always been that we could do with a more prolific player in his position, anyone with that viewpoint knows Firmino is a good player we have to find a place for, but we do need something else. Do you think we won't buy a striker in the Summer? We will. The truth is in the middle, Firmino is a cracking player and we need to buy another striker who scores regularly. There's no right or wrong, unless you're of the opinion that we have enough with what we've already got.
We'll buy a a couple of forwards for sure, to add depth. But the front 3 starting this season will be the same ones starting next. They've been brilliant for the most part.
The big money will go on positions where we need it more.
Watching those goals and assists and its quite clear why he's a boss player. Just a fantastic forward really, that can play in several positions and does so much hard work for the team that goes unnoticed. He's also linking most of our attacking play together.
He's one of our best players now in my opinion.
Rating him or not is each fans own choice, but I think you'll find yourself in the minority with not rating him. Anyway, that doesnt really matter.
We clearly need another striker though. Sturridge is finished and will leave, Origi is still developing and its very unclear to what Ings will contribute with next season.
Our new striker should definitely have some of the same attributes as Firmino but also be a proven goalscorer.
I dont think this is were we should spend most of our money and hopefully its possible to come across a great deal during the summer.
Knowing us we'll be looking at an up and coming striker but maybe this is an area were we should go for someone with a bit of experience and a few years into his career.
Firmino could definitely develop into a more reliable goalscorer aswell and I'm pretty certain that he'll start when the new season kicks off.
He's one of our best players now in my opinion.
Rating him or not is each fans own choice, but I think you'll find yourself in the minority with not rating him. Anyway, that doesnt really matter.
We clearly need another striker though. Sturridge is finished and will leave, Origi is still developing and its very unclear to what Ings will contribute with next season.
Our new striker should definitely have some of the same attributes as Firmino but also be a proven goalscorer.
I dont think this is were we should spend most of our money and hopefully its possible to come across a great deal during the summer.
Knowing us we'll be looking at an up and coming striker but maybe this is an area were we should go for someone with a bit of experience and a few years into his career.
Firmino could definitely develop into a more reliable goalscorer aswell and I'm pretty certain that he'll start when the new season kicks off.
It's a bit like Barcelona's being linked with Coutinho or the next exciting forward-- nothing wrong with going after a good player, after all-- but its greatest need is a more reliable defence not another attacking player. I agree a more clinical goalscorer would be nice but reducing that 16-18 goals conceded margin to the skanks and Spurs is even more imperative for Liverpool. Our defending this season has not much better than of lower-down-the-table teams.
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Although, Mark, the problem is that adding in a more prolific striker might not increase the amount of goals we score - it is more likely to centralise the goals around one player.
We've been down that road many times before - and it ends in the same result - over-reliance on 1 player for goals, followed by lamenting the fact that the midfield aren't contributing enough - because invariably they're set up to feed the prolific striker.
Yes, Firmino's finishing is variable and he lacks pace - but he makes up for it in work ethic and vision to create opportunities for other forwards.
Now if we could find a player that combines the unrelenting work rate of Firmino with world class finishing - then, we'd have some player - and every top club in the world will be after him.
I agree we'll probably sign another couple of forwards - but I'm not so sure they'll replace Firmino.
Very true Mark, but he does have a knack of scoring crucial goals and as a team we have scored more league goals than anyone else. So I'm happy with his goals and assists as Klopp does seem to be going for a more rounded mix of goals coming from all over the park, rather than relying on one striker to score a bundle. Will be interesting to see what Klopp does in the summer. Sturridge looks a definite leaver, so we will be in the market for another forward. I believe it will be another 10 goal/10 assist forward who can work in a fluid front three or four rather than a spearhead though. But who knows!
I don't really know what you want. He's scored two goals in his last two games and he's boss again?
Where was this thread a few weeks ago? He scored about 3 goals in 19 games earlier this season.
But now he's scored 11 league goals to overtake his total of 10 last season, he's fucking amazing!
I have on many occasions said he was a good player, with good technical skill and an amazing workrate.
I've also said that he is very far from perfect, because he's not very quick and doesn't score enough goals. I said this last season. I said it again this. It's still correct.
So if I'm not sure anyone can argue with it, why do you want me to repeat it?
Bingo
We all know he isn't a proper CF at best a secondary striker but he is no melt either and has flourished under Klopp.
Look, everyone was bored of Brendan's broken record on the need for a 20 goal a season striker (me included) and now people are complaining when he decides not to weigh in yet again? We can't have it both ways.
It's almost... ALMOST like people would rather find a way to slag Brendan off than debate him
To be fair he was just saying Firmino doesn't score enough goals as a striker, nothing about him being shit (I think), which has it's merits.
My point exactly. He didnt post any snide bollocks and yet its time to call him out.
Same happens with Modo over Henderson.
Dont moan about posters myopia and then encourage it.
It's not that your description of Firmino's strengths and weaknesses is wrong - it isn't - it's your contention that we need a more prolific striker that's fundamentally wrong.
We've failed to score in only 4 league games this season and are the top scoring team in the league.
We've lost 5 league games this season (Burnley, Bournemouth, Swansea, Hull, Leicester) and there are 3 other games we've drawn whilst leading going into the final 10 minutes (Sunderland, Bournemouth, Man Utd).
There is an identifiable link in all these games - and its not that Firmino was playing upfront or out wide, or that Mane, coutinho, Henderson, Lallana weren't playing, or that the teams parked the bus or which keeper was playing.
There is a pretty simple reason or explanation as to why we've dropped important points in, mostly, games that we should have gotten more out of.
We can speculate and discuss and argue all day long, but the question is this:
"Would we win more games and accrue more points with a more reliable and prolific goalscorer than Firmino?"
It seems that many have decided that if we replaced Firmino - or moved him to accommodate the above - we would not, and it is in fact not possible to improve on him.
That is not the question at all. Scoring is not our main problem, conceding against average teams is - as StevieM and others have explained. We scored 5 against Bournemouth and only took a point - that is the issue.
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