And this is the exact point; the rest of the team do contribute. For the 796th time, scoring goals isn't our problem (so why does it need fixing?). Conceding them is.
Firminio doesn't need to up his goal tally..
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And this is the exact point; the rest of the team do contribute. For the 796th time, scoring goals isn't our problem (so why does it need fixing?). Conceding them is.
I explained the problem in the first sentence, which you didn't quote. People stupidly think the two styles are mutually exclusive, and as we said last season, we needed more goals and another attacker, which I guess is why we've bought Salah. So it was a problem, that's hopefully been fixed by the addition of two forwards and the return of Sturridge. If scoring goals wasn't a problem, or we didn't think we could get better, then I don't think we would have rushed out and bought two players that will add to the goals tally.
Who is both these days? It's easy to say "Buhuu.... I want Ian Rush" but it is hard to deliver on that.... we were the best team in the world in the 70 and 80's (if you combine those decades). That success was built on multiple causes. Ian Rush was lucky to be part of that era, it's not like that era was down to us having Ian Rush. When he left we brought in Aldo, Barnes and Beardsley and became even better. But the long term success was down to club culture and not Ian Rush.
We have wasted that legacy by now, but we desperately want to rebuild. Can Klopp help us? Thats the question.... Firmino is just an asset on the way to future success. The key to success is elsewhere as with Ian Rush.
Well you go to those people and give them a piece of your mind, Mark.
And, yes, we can always do better. In every position. But we don't have unlimited funds so we have to prioritise. And, to me, if we are scoring enough goals and conceding too many, it's a no-brainer where we need to spend money.
So there's only one player in the world who can "contribute" what Firmino does and also score goals.
Fucking hell.
Does anyone else agree with CreepyOli? If we can't get Suarez there's not one other striker you would choose IN THE ENTIRE WORLD above Firmino?
Check out this epic thundercuntery from the ever-hapless Insignificant.
Ian Rush (who scored 346 goals for the club) was "lucky" to be part of Liverpool's success.
What a post. What. A. Post.
Settle, Zenboy.
So Beavis, how did we manage without him?
We haven't won the title since he left the club.
Hopefully that answers the question simply enough even for a stupendously thick cunt like you.
And he scored 18 league goals to help us win the last title we won.
27 years ago
27 years ago
This here is the problem with the the Firmino debate on SCM - it's just too polarised. He's either completely shit, or the only player on the planet who can lead a Klopp attack.
The truth is that Klopp seemingly likes to build an attack with two WFs flanking a central pivot. Firmino fits the profile of that central pivot reasonably well. He's immensely hard-working, technically superb and is extremely intelligent off the ball.
He's a fine player by all those counts, but there are plenty of weaknesses to his game, and he's certainly not one of the only few players in the world who could play that role in a Klopp attack. He's definitely not very pacy, he's not a great finisher, and my greatest issue is his lack of upper body strength. So while he's technically very good, he's just not a good enough back-to-goal player in that central pivot role. That's a key element for a player in that position. If he were stronger, he'd be scoring more goals on the turn, and winning free-kicks in and around the box that the likes of Suarez, Kane, Costa etc. do on a regular basis. He also frequently gets dispossessed because of his lack of strength. There are at least 7-8 players across Europe that I'd take before him in that central role in our team.
Still, he's a more than decent player, and I have no complaints with leading our attack as long as it always has two pacy, goalscoring WFs flanking him.
That doesn't mean that I won't be hoping that someone like Solanke pushes him and becomes a better option than him. Because we certainly can improve on him.
Insignificant has gone quiet. Funny that.
A good post and I agree with most of it.
And for the sake of misunderstandings, I don't believe for a minute Firmino is the only player who can lead a Klopp attack, and there is not a single player in our squad who couldn't be improved upon
So you can win title with strikers scoring less than 20? Good to know.
We won the title and CL before he came and we had out best team ever after he left.
That Liverpool era was not down to Ian Rush, it was down to a culture built from within. We have had better players (not many admittedly) later that failed to win us the title. Hence it is easy to argue he was lucky to be part of that Liverpool era. I doubt he would deny that fact himself.
To use another example I think the last decade Barcelona success is much down to Messi. Barca have been lucky to have him this period.
But why the hell do I try to explain these things to a Mong who can't see past the cereal his mother put in front of him....
I don't get why you bother, either.
It's like talking to a satnav with Tourettes.
Ian Rush and his lucky 346 goals.
At his current rate of scoring, Firmino will be near that total in about...... 27 years.
Oddly enough, the same number of years since we last won the title with Ian Rush scoring nearly 20.
But then, when we were winning titles regularly, we understood the need to have a prolific, reliable top quality striker. Mind you, we also had some fantastic defensive midfielders, and superb defenders.
Who said he was Lucky to score 346 goals? Fuck man, if I was as stupid as you I would have sued my parents.
I expect 15 goals from Firmino, I was disappointed with his return last season as a result, and he needs to improve. The problem here isn't so much that point, it's the fact that that's the only point some people can see, he's a good player for us, and he brings a hell of a lot to the team that makes the entire attack play much better, these aspects often get lost under a barrage of "He can't finish" which is disappointing.
We could upgrade on Firmino, but would require a very special player to be a decent upgrade. As Hansern has already suggested, we're looking at a Sanchez, a Costa, maybe a Kane, definitely a Suarez. We could slot a Defoe, Zlatan, or heck even a Aguero, and yes they'd score more goals, but the rest of our attack simply wouldn't work as a result, so it would make no sense. People need to stop acting as if it's that simple, we don't just need a "20 goal a season striker", we need a really fucking complete attacker who also scores a shit ton of goals, and they are in quite high demand.
So lets stop making this debate so binary, it's not that simple, Firmino disappointed on the goal front, and needs to reach 15 goals this season, but lets not pretend he's dreadful, or a liability, his game is about much more than that and his game was a key reason why our attack destroyed teams last Autumn.
We could upgrade on Firmino, but would require a very special player to be a decent upgrade. As Hansern has already suggested, we're looking at a Sanchez, a Costa, maybe a Kane, definitely a Suarez. We could slot a Defoe, Zlatan, or heck even a Aguero, and yes they'd score more goals, but the rest of our attack simply wouldn't work as a result, so it would make no sense. People need to stop acting as if it's that simple, we don't just need a "20 goal a season striker", we need a really fucking complete attacker who also scores a shit ton of goals, and they are in quite high demand.
So lets stop making this debate so binary, it's not that simple, Firmino disappointed on the goal front, and needs to reach 15 goals this season, but lets not pretend he's dreadful, or a liability, his game is about much more than that and his game was a key reason why our attack destroyed teams last Autumn.
Nowhere in that interview does Klopp say Firmino couldn't improve. All he's saying is that he doesn't want Firmino to lose the good bits of his game - which, as others have pointed out, played its part in an attack which destroyed even good teams last season. It's also too easy to forget that English isn't Klopp's first language, so critics of the way he gets his point across might want to ask themselves how good their German is. Mine's quite good as it happens, but no way would I cope with interviews in it as well as Klopp does in English.
WHAT a shedload of fuss about nothing.
WHAT a shedload of fuss about nothing.
What? This place was sucking his cock most of the time.
I was one of the few who said quite early on that he wasn't a good finisher and wouldn't score many goals, and that fact was swamped by loads of divs quacking on about being top scorers and top of the league and blah blah, and it increased to a cacophony during one of his (extraordinarily rare) purple patches when he scored 4 goals in a month or something.
It seems some people just hate it when I'm right, which isn't healthy for them, given how I almost always am.
I don't think he's shit, really. He's just slow and a poor finisher and I don't think he should be our first choice striker.
This isn't vague or in need of a proper German translation:
"“With Roberto Firmino, people say he does not score enough. What?!” he told Goal‘s Melissa Reddy.
“He is the best player without scoring with how well he reads the game for the benefit of others. Outstanding!"
That's quite clearly Klopp saying criticism of Firmino's goalscoring are wrong.
Backtrack!
When you're wrong, you're wrong, so fair play to you for admitting it.
Who are you trying to convince here? Everyone on this forum watched as you tried to rewrite the history regarding your views on Firmino, everyone watched as you tried to squirm from he's a fucking shite flabby melt to simply "he doesn't score enough", so just drop the charade, it's getting a little embarrassing.
As for the reason people were "sucking his cock" back in the Autumn, that might have simply been because he and the team were playing incredible football, and he was on course to score 15 goals, that's what he brings to the team at his best and thats why so many people like him so. Now what he doesn't bring enough of to the team is consistency in terms of goal scoring, in my mind he had last season to prove that point and he disappointed me. There's a good discussion to be had here about the pros and cons he brings to the team, and who could improve upon him as a result of this, but it can't be had because you too busy banging on about how you were right all along about his goal scoring, despite the fact that stance was a revision from your he's fucking garbage position you were adopting right up until he utterly humiliated you through the first half of last season.
I suppose if something is mediocre, overrated and fawned over by easily-led morons, but your own expectations and desires are set higher, you might describe something mediocre, overrated and fawned over by easily-led morons, as "shit", rather than mediocre, overrated and fawned over by easily-led morons.
Ouch.
I didn't squirm or rewrite anything. Language is fluid - as is mood - and words are meaningless taken out of context.
As for "he was on course to score 15 goals" (or even 20!), I obviously didn't agree with that, because it was clear to me then that he "wasn't consistent in terms of goalscoring", although it's nice to see most people catching up eventually.
Catching up, ha, if he has a good goalscoring season next year you'll probably start claiming you only ever disliked his tattoos.
Seems to be a lot of weird people talking about my parents in this thread.
They both still love me immensely!
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