Suggest you take a look at the 'creative' thread.
Firminio doesn't need to up his goal tally..
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Yes, Delinquent has outlined the obvious very clearly in a good post, although once again, I'm surprised here are still so many people who don't understand it.
Pretty fucked then aren't we!
We are very reliant on coutinho or mane.
Salah will be one too imo.
Hopefully, but at the moment we're in the dark over that
How many match winners can you have in a squad? You can't have eleven, and looking around the other top teams in the league, I think two players who can win a match on their own is about the average, and we have that in Coutinho and Mane, and as LTW suggests, I think Salah will be another of those players.
Mane is one of our best players but he relies on the service from our team. He's not a match winner like coutinho who can make something out of nothing. Coutinho is our only true match winner.
I suggest you watch his goal against Arsenal, for starters, again.
First thing that came to mind, yep.
In response to the thread title and Klopp...Yes he fucking does need to score more goals. As for his contribution off ball...it aint that fucking great.
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Was about to say Everton but then I remembered that Sturridge did most of the work.
Thanks, Modo.
Can't agree with that, Mane scored a couple of goals last season which were pretty much all him, Coutinho wins games by blast one in from 30 yards, Mane wins games by running at teams and turning them inside out. More importantly though Mane's goals have won us points, it doesn't matter how he scores them, it's the fact he scores them that matters.
Cant be true. We won the goals because said so.
Top six is bullshit list. It should be Top five. That Sixth Place (24 Points behind the winners or so) Counts for nothing and shouldn't be mentioned!!!
It's occasional rather than the norm, the Arsenal game was a year ago, you're so good with stats, tell us the other occasions where he's offered a moment of sheer inspiration out of nothing.
I'm not knocking Mane btw, but the "I suggest you watch the arsenal game" comment is a typically over enthusiastic and misguided retort. It was the exception rather than the norm, unlike what Coutinho offers. If we're going to offer up solitary moments as proof, we may aswell label Henderson & Can match winners, for their rare moments of inspired brilliance, but that would be daft.
Yes but 'occasional' is good enough and what does it matter if the first example we think of is the Arsenal goal ? It's not as if Coutinho does it every other match either, he scores 3-4 screamers per season in the PL and maybe the same that he creates with magic himself in the box.
However it's not just about scoring yourself, many top 'creative' players who make magic happen, don't appear on the top scorers' lists, but there's no denying their involvement in goals, no matter who scores them. Mane could probably be on both those lists of course.
You know as well as I do that without going back and checking every goal we scored (or e.g. Mane scored at other clubs) it's tough to say how many were 'creative' (to use a 'catch all' phrase) and that the term is rather subjective in itself. So actually you haven't offered up any evidence to the contrary - merely a contrary opinion.
Anyway for your perusal (below) from Mane's 2016/17 season, I'd say 3-4 goals fall into that 'creative - did it all himself' bracket even though his creativity is different to Coutinho's for example. Behind Coutinho certainly but then most players in the PL are, but undoubtedly a player that, to use the original term used by Glen, can regularly 'create something out of nothing' and the Arsenal goal is far from an exception even if it's the most obvious example.
To use stats (goals and assists), that don't come close to showing the whole picture of course because 'involvement' or 'creativity' per se isn't noted :
Coutinho 21 in 31 matches
Mane 21 in 27
Firmino 22 in 35
Lallana 15 in 31
Wijnaldum 15 in 36
Origi 12 in 34
Sturridge 7 in 20
Mane - Liverpool 2016/17 (no doubt there's more than a handful at Southampton too but I can't be arsed checking)
Of course Mane is a match-winner, it's nonsense to suggest otherwise.
That said, if the funds had allowed we really should have gone for an instinctive goal-scorer. That was clear from the run-in when Sturridge was so dangerous and clinical compared to Origi and to a lesser extent, Firmino. We might be able to get away with it if Sturridge stays fit but that's a big risk and we can't depend upon Origi or Solanke.
If we are talking about priorities then Klopp was 100% right in targeting a dominant centreback, another quick and mobile wide player and a dynamic centre midfielder plus cover for left back. The depressing reality is that we have failed so far with 2 of these positions and if there are no alternatives then it may be worth spending our cash on a goalscorer and just go for broke.
That said, if the funds had allowed we really should have gone for an instinctive goal-scorer. That was clear from the run-in when Sturridge was so dangerous and clinical compared to Origi and to a lesser extent, Firmino. We might be able to get away with it if Sturridge stays fit but that's a big risk and we can't depend upon Origi or Solanke.
If we are talking about priorities then Klopp was 100% right in targeting a dominant centreback, another quick and mobile wide player and a dynamic centre midfielder plus cover for left back. The depressing reality is that we have failed so far with 2 of these positions and if there are no alternatives then it may be worth spending our cash on a goalscorer and just go for broke.
In fairness if we need a bit of magic in a game I'd much rather the ball at Coutinhos feet than Mane or anyone else's.
In terms of creative brilliance it's probably a steep sliding scale
Coutinho
Mane
Salah (unproven but looks good so far and his pace is weapon on its own)
Studge
Lallana
Firmino
Henderson
Can
In terms of creative brilliance it's probably a steep sliding scale
Coutinho
Mane
Salah (unproven but looks good so far and his pace is weapon on its own)
Studge
Lallana
Firmino
Henderson
Can
I disagree that it's a steep sliding scale.
Very much so in fact.
Mane is as creative as Coutinho, just not in a 30 yard pass kind of way
And I also disagree that firmino, Henderson and Lallana are in someway massively lower than Coutinho
I should have clarified I think the steep drop off is after the top 3
Still wrong when you consider Firmino's record.
2 goals and 4 assists in his preseason games
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