It definitely won't be seamless, but if you intend on playing him there, you kinda have to give him time to adapt to the position.
Fabinho leaving?
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Trent doesn't play like like your traditional fullback, he's unorthodox in the sense that 95% of things he does well comes from a creative stand point....that all comes from his finesse range of passing, vision and eagerness to find a purposeful pass in the final third.
There is no other RB in the world you can compare to Trent.
There is no other RB in the world you can compare to Trent.
@mark1975
I think this is a really important and good important discussion to have because it gets to the heart of what Klopp wants from his midfield and how we best utilise Trent.
The Tifo Football vid posted the other day by someone on our midfield development was really good - although I think it missed a few key things.
If we go back to our pre-Thiago 443 then the RB getting forward, providing width & creativity & the RCM is pressing high and covering behind the RB - so you’re asking Trent to be the RB again or to be Gini, Milner or Hendo - which he’s not.
If we play a box midfield of 4 and keep 3 upfront, then we can’t play with a RB.
If we want to play with a RB and put Trent into a midfield role - we’ve just wasted £60m on Slobberchops to warm the bench.
Who we’ve signed and who we’ve been linked too suggests we’re either going back to pre-Thiago 433 pressing with more mobile players or the 343 we ended the season with… or both.
In neither of those does it require a new RB.
Mac Allister is more suited for that role imho
Defo not a case of "can't" especially as you say he's played there on more than the odd occasion. AlexiMac switching to RCM is fine for him, again I'm sure we've all seen him play a lot more than Szobo and we all know he can play anywhere in that midfield too (maybe other than a #6) although I'm half expecting Klopp to experiment with AlexiMac the same way he did with Gini.
Why did we spend £60m on Slobberchops if he’s going to be a bench option or cover Salah for the 4-5 games max he’ll miss at RW?
That isn’t even close to making sense.
The question is always, who’s pressing, who’s providing width and how are we creating space and time for Trent to do what he’s really good at?
I keep saying it - if we’re playing an inverted winger in Salah - someone needs to provide width - and it’s the RCM or the RB - that’s the only 2 options.
If it’s the RCM then there’s a hole in midfield and there’s little press unless the RB moves inside - and how many RB’s are good at moving infield and playing a DM role.
If it’s the RB - then there’s a hole in behind the RB and the RCM role is to press, hold & cover.
So Trent’s best role is as a RB providing width and I’m not sure Slobberchops is the best option to hold the RCM role.
Or
Trent sits as a deep lying playmaker beside a more defensively capable midfielder and the RCM provides the width like a right sided version of Curtis - which means we don’t have a RB.
Then why’d we sign Mac when we have Thiago & Curtis already in the role - and both Badgertits & Harvey played there too?
Yeah yeah yeah…
Although it was @mark1975 who started it.. so you are merely the bridge I am straddling to get there.!!!
Stevie aka Mr Devil's Advocate, sat wondering to himself, "why the fuck do we sign anyone for anything" well why do you think Stevie?
Mac and Szobo will be here years after Thiago.....but you already knew this.
Badger and Harvey are only good enough (& may only ever be good enough) to be understudy players.....but again, you already knew this.
Mac and Szobo will be here years after Thiago.....but you already knew this.
Badger and Harvey are only good enough (& may only ever be good enough) to be understudy players.....but again, you already knew this.
Woaaah woahh wait a minute there Stevie, started it in this thread maybe but the "should Trent stay at RB or move to midfield based on what we do in the market" has been a talking point for a long time, years even........it's only "started" picking up since we saw the difference in his performances in that hybrid role to how we was at RB earlier last season.
Some could even say it really stemmed from Carra, who's long advocated for Trent playing in midfield for some time and fans created the noise & debating amongst themselves off the back of that.
Didn't Hendo play in that RCM role when we were at our best?
Hendo wound up on the right in a crossing position all the time.
I think Trent can do the same job he did. Actually, imo Trent would be perfect for that role.
But that would require us to sign another right back.
Also with regard to Szobo, he'll be new to the league we don't know at what level he'll perform. There will be some form of rotation in midfield as well. Szobo can play in an attacking role behind the striker in some games or LCM.
Ultimately, I think giving Trent games in midfield gives us more options.
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Why even rotate? Come on...
I get all that, especially the point about szobo, but... we also haven't factored in that Klopp likes to reinvent players, there's no guarantee that Szobo will definitely start there or that he's not just an option, as much as the rest of the team are. Look at upfront. We are going to struggle to keep Jota, Diaz, Salah, Gapko, Nunez etc all playing every week, but we play enough games whereby it will work. You can say the same in midfield too, you know Klopp likes to rotate it, he did it previously, he'd near enough always rotate one in and out. I get the point that Szobo looks a regular starter and probably plays where Trent plays, so there are alot of unanswered questions, I just feel that Trent wants to play midfield, he showed enough last season to warrant playing there permanently, and teams have completely sussed how to bypass us and expose that side, whether it's in the hybrid role or at right back, there's a vulnerability there, especially if Konate doesn't play for any length of time. You need a squad. I think Modo nailed it to be honest, it gives us a few different options both from where he starts in a game, to being able to change it up as and when we need to. The option we don't really have is the one where we can shore up the right side by bringing in a "proper" defender, especially now with Milner gone and the fairly versatile Hendo probably going.
Klopp hates losing far more than he loves his mainstays.
Yes - so it’s a fluid system - Hendo, Harvey and likely Slobberchops and Trent at RCM could drift out wide or attack through the half space - that’s definitely true - but that role is also key to the press.
It also means that if they are drifting out wide there’s a massive space that needs covering - so who’s going to cover that?
If Trent’s a RB then he can come inside when the RCM goes wide or the RCM can hold there if Trent goes out wide - that’s your fluid tactical flexibility.
The problems start when you try to replace Trent at RB - because there are very few RBs with the ability to come inside and play in midfield the way Trent does - he’s unique and we look like we’re treating him as such.
Slobberchops defensive capabilities seem to be in line with Harvey’s - ie not very good - but we also know that Slobberchops is good at pressing and Harvey has been improving at this.
Trent would be great in midfield if we had another Trent at RB.
If you look to how the left side has changed you get some pointers as well - both Robbo and Tsimikas are more traditional LBs that get up high and provide width - they’ve needed either a sitting midfielder in Gini or a deep lying playmaker in Thiago in the LCM role.
Trent’s hybrid role meant the LB had to curtail their forward runs and slot in alongside Van Dijk - with Curtis providing the width from midfield and Fabs plugging the gap in midfield.
I think Mac A and Curtis can both provide width & attacking option in the forward half space and Fabs is more capable of holding behind them or even dropping back to cover if Robbo, for example, does decide to go forward.
That makes sense of our pursuit of Lavia to replace Fabs to operate beside Trent in a double 6 pivot and a LCB that can operate in a 3 man defence or drop into a LB position in a more traditional 4.
That we let Ramsay go out on loan and haven’t been linked to a RB in any way other than tenuously to Pavard who is as much a RCB as a RB (and now being linked to City as a Walker replacement) and would likely be a Konate replacement option, suggests we aren’t looking at a 433 with Trent as the RCM rotating with Slobberchops as a consistent formation - maybe an option we can pull out every now and then - but it’d mean as things stand, Bradley or Gomez at RB and Slobberchops & Harvey on the bench.
Midfield overhaul feels a bit chaotic , hopefully we can keep hold of fab and thiago purely from a continuity perspective. Mac & Sobz are very different to those they have replaced.
Hopefully pre season gives a good indication of how this will all pan out but you'd imagine it's take a while to get into any sort of rhythm
Hopefully pre season gives a good indication of how this will all pan out but you'd imagine it's take a while to get into any sort of rhythm
I like your tactical breakdown and I have no issue with anything you're saying, but I guess my idea would be to get a more traditional fullback like Robbo on the right. Not to replace Trent with a similar player.
The trade off is that we'd lose some of what Trent offers right now in attack, but on the other hand it might make us a bit more solid in defence.
Personally - I’d like us to let Matip go and sign Pavard who could potentially do both a RCB with Trent in his hybrid role or potentially a RB with Trent in MF (or injured) roles.
TBH this is all i want, as Pavard can also play LCB
Well start a fucking thread than my man and lets make that shit happen!!!!
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