Expectation for coming season

[doctor_mac]

Looking at the squad.

Have we made that much of a stride forward?

GK - yes
CB - no
FB - no
CM/Am - Can, Coutinho and Ox out, Keita Fabiano and Shakiri in. Hopefully and improvement in the first 11 but over all the depth hasn't seen much if any.
CF - no

Coutinho has been out since January. And if you're going to say Ox is out, then you have to say Clyne in, Lallana in. So according to your logic we have strengthened at FB (Clyne and Fabinho) and we definitely have strengthened in midfield Keita, Fabinho, Lallana and Shaq. CF- we don't play with one and haven't done so for an entire season. Shaq does strengthen our forward line. So this is a mess really, and inaccurate.

 

[Don_al_Trump]

We are never going to have the squad of depth of City or United unless we get richer owners or get lucky with a group of kids through the ranks.

We have on paper a better squad than Man United. Honest Man United fans know they were lucky to get second as we had our focus on winning the CL.

 

[Oncy]

Looking at the squad.

Have we made that much of a stride forward?

GK - yes
CB - no
FB - no
CM/Am - Can, Coutinho and Ox out, Keita Fabiano and Shakiri in. Hopefully and improvement in the first 11 but over all the depth hasn't seen much if any.
CF - no

If youre counting Coutinho out then we signed a 75m CB since then so yeah we improved there.
Also Robertson broke into the first team and was boss so we strengthened FB since then.

What exactly is the point in your current brand of pragmatic negativity?
Its pathetic.

 

[Oncy]

Coutinho has been out since January. And if you're going to say Ox is out, then you have to say Clyne in, Lallana in. So according to your logic we have strengthened at FB (Clyne and Fabinho) and we definitely have strengthened in midfield Keita, Fabinho, Lallana and Shaq. CF- we don't play with one and haven't done so for an entire season. Shaq does strengthen our forward line. So this is a mess really, and inaccurate.

Or yeah in fact, what he said

 

[darkstarexodus]

Coutinho has been out since January. And if you're going to say Ox is out, then you have to say Clyne in, Lallana in. So according to your logic we have strengthened at FB (Clyne and Fabinho) and we definitely have strengthened in midfield Keita, Fabinho, Lallana and Shaq. CF- we don't play with one and haven't done so for an entire season. Shaq does strengthen our forward line. So this is a mess really, and inaccurate.

Would argue we also got a brand new Dejan Lovren to replace the cheap knockoff version who played a couple seasons for us.

 

[singred]

'Current Liverpool manager Jürgen Klopp labelled Buvač as "the brain" in his coaching team, while describing himself as "the heart" and the second assistant coach, Peter Krawietz, as "the eye".'
'The ECHO understands that Buvac won't be returning to the club and his 17-year working relationship with Klopp is effectively over.
Klopp isn't looking to make any further additions to his backroom staff with Lijnders filling the Buvac void.'

I am optimistic we are able to improve on the 4th place with Klopp's brand new brain.

 

[ibromurph]

Yes.

Truth be told. I can see why Jurgen is happy with the current squad. It's currently not actually missing anything obvious.

Sturridge (who is on astronomical wages) is cover for Bobby F, so unless he moves on, I can't see us getting another CF. We've also got Origi (who 2 seasons ago was a fantastic super sub for us), Ings, Solanke (who needs games to develop) to play in that role. We need to move at least 2 of these guys (Studge esp due to his wages) off the books before considering another CF.

As for AM, and a Coutinho replacement, I don't think Klopp wants a dedicated AM. I think he always preferred solidity in the CM area, with 2 number 8s flanking a dedicated DM. Coutinho was a 10. And it's probably why Mane and him rotated so much at the beginning of the season (after he came back into the side).

Fekir, if signed, would probably play more in the front 3 than midfield. For Lyon, he played at the tip of a diamond 4, with 2 ahead of him, which isn't too dissimilar to when Firmino drops off and Salah and Mane makes runs from outside in.

I stand to be corrected, but I can't remember us ever having a great game in the league, against a good side, when Coutinho played in the midfield 3 and the front 3 also played. Against Arsenal, at the Emirates, the we tried the "fab four" and we conceded as many as we scored. We played well and deserved to win it in the first half on chances created, but as the game went on and Coutinho tired, it was clear that he was too lightweight in the centre of the park. He was always best used for us in the front 3. Also, the notion that his creativity unpicked packed defences for us is a little overstated too. For me, he was never really a playmaker that controlled the pace of the game. This is something that David Silva and Iniesta do expertly and they're the sort to unlock or wear down a parked bus defence. Coutinho wasn't on the same level in that respect. I remember all those games we struggled to score against Southampton 2 seasons ago, especially the league cup game against them at Anfield. His main bits of creavity often came from doing a great 1 v 1 skill to open up space so he could shoot (usually from long range). I never felt like he dictated the tempo of any game. Moreover, even with Mane, Salah and Bobby ahead of him last season, we were still unable to beat the parked bus that WBA brought to Anfield (0-0); when the "Fab 4" all played.

Even against S.Moscow when we battered them at Anfield, the Fab 4 was essentially playing as a 4-4-2, (not 4-3-3), with Mane and Coutinho on the wings, and Salah/Bobby upfront together. I saw a video from Balague too, that at Barca, they're realising Phil isn't a midfielder either and he's more of a forward player right now. They were hoping he would be Inieta's long term replacement, but he's positionally not good enough right now, and they're having to be patient with him.

So this notion we need a dedicated AM is probably not true in Jurgen's mind, with Keita/Wini/Lallana/Ox all on the books capable of doing the box to box number 8 role he prefers his midfielders to do anyway. One could argue, we'd be better served getting another one of these types in (perhaps why we were pushing for Goretzka).

 

[dmishra]

Yes.

Truth be told. I can see why Jurgen is happy with the current squad. It's currently not actually missing anything obvious.

Sturridge (who is on astronomical wages) is cover for Bobby F, so unless he moves on, I can't see us getting another CF. We've also got Origi (who 2 seasons ago was a fantastic super sub for us), Ings, Solanke (who needs games to develop) to play in that role. We need to move at least 2 of these guys (Studge esp due to his wages) off the books before considering another CF.

As for AM, and a Coutinho replacement, I don't think Klopp wants a dedicated AM. I think he always preferred solidity in the CM area, with 2 number 8s flanking a dedicated DM. Coutinho was a 10. And it's probably why Mane and him rotated so much at the beginning of the season (after he came back into the side).

Fekir, if signed, would probably play more in the front 3 than midfield. For Lyon, he played at the tip of a diamond 4, with 2 ahead of him, which isn't too dissimilar to when Firmino drops off and Salah and Mane makes runs from outside in.

I stand to be corrected, but I can't remember us ever having a great game in the league, against a good side, when Coutinho played in the midfield 3 and the front 3 also played. Against Arsenal, at the Emirates, the we tried the "fab four" and we conceded as many as we scored. We played well and deserved to win it in the first half on chances created, but as the game went on and Coutinho tired, it was clear that he was too lightweight in the centre of the park. He was always best used for us in the front 3. Also, the notion that his creativity unpicked packed defences for us is a little overstated too. For me, he was never really a playmaker that controlled the pace of the game. This is something that David Silva and Iniesta do expertly and they're the sort to unlock or wear down a parked bus defence. Coutinho wasn't on the same level in that respect. I remember all those games we struggled to score against Southampton 2 seasons ago, especially the league cup game against them at Anfield. His main bits of creavity often came from doing a great 1 v 1 skill to open up space so he could shoot (usually from long range). I never felt like he dictated the tempo of any game. Moreover, even with Mane, Salah and Bobby ahead of him last season, we were still unable to beat the parked bus that WBA brought to Anfield (0-0); when the "Fab 4" all played.

Even against S.Moscow when we battered them at Anfield, the Fab 4 was essentially playing as a 4-4-2, (not 4-3-3), with Mane and Coutinho on the wings, and Salah/Bobby upfront together. I saw a video from Balague too, that at Barca, they're realising Phil isn't a midfielder either and he's more of a forward player right now. They were hoping he would be Inieta's long term replacement, but he's positionally not good enough right now, and they're having to be patient with him.

So this notion we need a dedicated AM is probably not true in Jurgen's mind, with Keita/Wini/Lallana/Ox all on the books capable of doing the box to box number 8 role he prefers his midfielders to do anyway. One could argue, we'd be better served getting another one of these types in (perhaps why we were pushing for Goretzka).

Agree with a lot of this. I think Klopp is happy with his midfield, and doesn't really need an AM as such. I think he will hope that Keita becomes a playmaking force from midfield in addition to providing bite and energy.

Yet, when we talk of Coutinho, what we miss is his goal-getting ability, and general individual ability. You're right that Coutinho post Rodgers became more of a forward player - his 38 goals in his 3 seasons under Klopp are proof of that.

The hope with Fekir was that he could be that sort of player. Capable of covering for the front three, and midfield on occasion. We definitely lack that sort of player. Klopp's recent comments seem to suggest that he thinks Shaqiri will be that player - I'm not very convinced though.

 

[ibromurph]

Agree with a lot of this. I think Klopp is happy with his midfield, and doesn't really need an AM as such. I think he will hope that Keita becomes a playmaking force from midfield in addition to providing bite and energy.

Yet, when we talk of Coutinho, what we miss is his goal-getting ability, and general individual ability. You're right that Coutinho post Rodgers became more of a forward player - his 38 goals in his 3 seasons under Klopp are proof of that.

The hope with Fekir was that he could be that sort of player. Capable of covering for the front three, and midfield on occasion. We definitely lack that sort of player. Klopp's recent comments seem to suggest that he thinks Shaqiri will be that player - I'm not very convinced though.

Yeah, me neither.

I think Shaqiri could provide us quality from out wide. Specifically RW. That's where most of his goals in his career has come from. I think had we had him coming on in the CL final instead of Lallana (at LW), we'd have been able to have kept the same shape/formation, and perhaps Bobby (et al) would have been more effective.

As for Fekir, I'm really hoping we are still in for him, because I have little faith in Sturridge's fitness nor his ability to suit the counter-pressing system we employ. It also acts as somewhat cover for Lallana too (and his fitness worries). As we could switch to a 4-2-3-1, if we don't have 2 fit centre midfielders at some point during the season (especially as we already know AOC is out for the majority of it, if not all).

 

[peterhague]

When Coutinho left I assumed we'd go for a more traditional MF 3, with Keita replacing Coutinho and us generally trading a bit of flair for some extra control.

However, given that we tried our hardest to sign Fekir, clearly a direct Coutinho replacement, I don't know why anyone would try to maintain that view now.

The mystery is why we haven't gone for an alternative to Fekir, unless Klopp has belatedy come to the view that Coutinho doesn't need directly replacing. But even then, that obviously wasn't the original plan.

 

[ibromurph]

When Coutinho left I assumed we'd go for a more traditional MF 3, with Keita replacing Coutinho and us generally trading a bit of flair for some extra control.

However, given that we tried our hardest to sign Fekir, clearly a direct Coutinho replacement, I don't know why anyone would try to maintain that view now.

The mystery is why we haven't gone for an alternative to Fekir, unless Klopp has belatedy come to the view that Coutinho doesn't need directly replacing. But even then, that obviously wasn't the original plan.

Or perhaps he thought we wouldn't have to replace our GK and the funds that were going to go on Fekir (post failed medical) have now been redirected towards Alisson (after Karius' pre-season nervous displays).

In which case, I'd agree with him.

I also think we can get a quality replacement/rotation for the front 3 easier than it would be to get a top GK, simply because there are more flair players than there are quality GKs. Which is weird because GKs have heen undervalued for years and continue to be (until we overpaid, admittedly).

Furthermore, we could still be in for attacking midfielder. But that might be purely dependent on sales, and Klopp has decided it was better to get the GK in earlier (and not dependant) on sales than the AM.

 

[keniget]

I don't think we necessarily need a dedicated AM in the mould of Coutinho but we do need options as at the moment we have next to none.

I have always been a huge fan of Coutinho but I had no real expectations of us signing a like for like replacement (largely because that kind of player is very rare). I thought we'd go for a young up and comer like Bailey who would fit into our front 3 more naturally.

As things stand, we're short on quality. We just have to hope Shakiri uses this opportunity - his last at a big club - to show he's a player.

 

[ibromurph]

I don't think we necessarily need a dedicated AM in the mould of Coutinho but we do need options as at the moment we have next to none.

I have always been a huge fan of Coutinho but I had no real expectations of us signing a like for like replacement (largely because that kind of player is very rare). I thought we'd go for a young up and comer like Bailey who would fit into our front 3 more naturally.

As things stand, we're short on quality. We just have to hope Shakiri uses this opportunity - his last at a big club - to show he's a player.

I agree. I do think we need more options (esp with AOC now out), and Fekir would give us that across 4 positions.

But I can't see it happening until we sell the likes of Markovic, Sturridge, Ings. Their wages and value alone would probably cover the cost of Fekir, whilst giving us cover across the same positions they play.