Dumbledores Army

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=45065.msg1320915#msg1320915 date=1303641007]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=45065.msg1320906#msg1320906 date=1303640753]
I think people are forgetting our away record which is a best erratic and at worst a disgrace, suddenly this is going to change to the point where we are a few points off the leaders going into April. I think with a massive overhaul of the squad and 2-3 first team players we'll drastically improve our away but not to the point we'll win the league.
[/quote]

United are more than likely going to win the league with the worst away record in Premiership history.

And obviously Roy was a huge factor in our poor away form this season.
[/quote]


Wishful thinking to put the blame for our away day blues on Roy, the season before Roy we lost a lot of away games and since we've lost some away games. I don't think our defense is consistent enough to ensure if we aren't going to win away at least we don't lose which is more or less currently the case with Manu. Further to that we need to be clinical away from home with the fleeting chances we are presented with, spurs away being a very good example.

I hope the DA are right but personally I'll be over the moon with CL football which will signal a massive improvement.

 

[Rosco]

This is a bit of a 180 from Spidey, who had been blaming all our away results on Roys tactics up until now.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Obviously I'm still in it, but can I ask that we don't put too much stock in our leader?

I'd like for the army to continue believing after General Oncy starts flipflopping.

shitwinkeysmiliethingy

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45065.msg1320927#msg1320927 date=1303642280]
This is a bit of a 180 from Spidey, who had been blaming all our away results on Roys tactics up until now.
[/quote]

Sorry, meant can't put the blame solely on Roy. He was a massive factor and his tactics were a disgrace but it's not his fault we were profligate with chances and Shambolic in defense, srktel's positional sense was rubbish long before Roy came on the scene.

Let's say winning away from home has 10 factors to be correct, I'd say Roy got 6 of those factors wrong and the other 4 was poor players and luck. I think kenny can address a lot of what Roy got wrong but (for example) maxi will still be wasteful under pressure, skrtel's positional sense will still be suspect. Will the kenny effect be enough to turn previous losses into draws and draws into wins. We're still pretty erratic away from home.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=45065.msg1320939#msg1320939 date=1303643241]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45065.msg1320927#msg1320927 date=1303642280]
This is a bit of a 180 from Spidey, who had been blaming all our away results on Roys tactics up until now.
[/quote]

Sorry, meant can't put the blame solely on Roy. He was a massive factor and his tactics were a disgrace but it's not his fault we were profligate with chances and Shambolic in defense, srktel's positional sense was rubbish long before Roy came on the scene.

Let's say winning away from home has 10 factors to be correct, I'd say Roy got 6 of those factors wrong and the other 4 was poor players and luck. I think kenny can address a lot of what Roy got wrong but (for example) maxi will still be wasteful under pressure, skrtel's positional sense will still be suspect. Will the kenny effect be enough to turn previous losses into draws and draws into wins. We're still pretty erratic away from home.
[/quote]

Which 10 factors have to be correct?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45065.msg1320941#msg1320941 date=1303643422]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=45065.msg1320939#msg1320939 date=1303643241]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45065.msg1320927#msg1320927 date=1303642280]
This is a bit of a 180 from Spidey, who had been blaming all our away results on Roys tactics up until now.
[/quote]

Sorry, meant can't put the blame solely on Roy. He was a massive factor and his tactics were a disgrace but it's not his fault we were profligate with chances and Shambolic in defense, srktel's positional sense was rubbish long before Roy came on the scene.

Let's say winning away from home has 10 factors to be correct, I'd say Roy got 6 of those factors wrong and the other 4 was poor players and luck. I think kenny can address a lot of what Roy got wrong but (for example) maxi will still be wasteful under pressure, skrtel's positional sense will still be suspect. Will the kenny effect be enough to turn previous losses into draws and draws into wins. We're still pretty erratic away from home.
[/quote]

Which 10 factors have to be correct?
[/quote]

Okay, putting me on the spot

1. You have to be organised in defense.
2. You have to be compact in midfield.
3. You have to be clinical.
4. You have to able to defend under pressure for long periods.
5. You have to be able to hold up the ball.
6. You have to be able to change tactics quickly.
7. You have to be proactive rather than reactive.
8. You have have good options on the bench to be able to change the game if things are going tits up.
9. You have to be quick on the counter attack.
10. You have to be able to control the pace of the game and slow things down especially to quiet the crowd.

To much of the above Roy got wrong but some things (like being clinical) is beyond his control.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=45065.msg1320946#msg1320946 date=1303644572]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45065.msg1320941#msg1320941 date=1303643422]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=45065.msg1320939#msg1320939 date=1303643241]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45065.msg1320927#msg1320927 date=1303642280]
This is a bit of a 180 from Spidey, who had been blaming all our away results on Roys tactics up until now.
[/quote]

Sorry, meant can't put the blame solely on Roy. He was a massive factor and his tactics were a disgrace but it's not his fault we were profligate with chances and Shambolic in defense, srktel's positional sense was rubbish long before Roy came on the scene.

Let's say winning away from home has 10 factors to be correct, I'd say Roy got 6 of those factors wrong and the other 4 was poor players and luck. I think kenny can address a lot of what Roy got wrong but (for example) maxi will still be wasteful under pressure, skrtel's positional sense will still be suspect. Will the kenny effect be enough to turn previous losses into draws and draws into wins. We're still pretty erratic away from home.
[/quote]

Which 10 factors have to be correct?
[/quote]

Okay, putting me on the spot

1. You have to be organised in defense.
2. You have to be compact in midfield.
3. You have to be clinical.
4. You have to able to defend under pressure for long periods.
5. You have to be able to hold up the ball.
6. You have to be able to change tactics quickly.
7. You have to be proactive rather than reactive.
8. You have have good options on the bench to be able to change the game if things are going tits up.
9. You have to be quick on the counter attack.
10. You have to be able to control the pace of the game and slow things down especially to quiet the crowd.

To much of the above Roy got wrong but some things (like being clinical) is beyond his control.
[/quote]

Well done I'm sure you made most of those up! 🙂
Only one factor counts for me, that's scoring more goals than the opposition.

 

[TheBunnyman]

Spidey, I don't think anyone's really implying that OUR CURRENT SQUAD could win the league. All of this optimism is based on the premise that we will buy some much better players during the summer.

 

[Holle]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=45065.msg1320946#msg1320946 date=1303644572]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45065.msg1320941#msg1320941 date=1303643422]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=45065.msg1320939#msg1320939 date=1303643241]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45065.msg1320927#msg1320927 date=1303642280]
This is a bit of a 180 from Spidey, who had been blaming all our away results on Roys tactics up until now.
[/quote]

Sorry, meant can't put the blame solely on Roy. He was a massive factor and his tactics were a disgrace but it's not his fault we were profligate with chances and Shambolic in defense, srktel's positional sense was rubbish long before Roy came on the scene.

Let's say winning away from home has 10 factors to be correct, I'd say Roy got 6 of those factors wrong and the other 4 was poor players and luck. I think kenny can address a lot of what Roy got wrong but (for example) maxi will still be wasteful under pressure, skrtel's positional sense will still be suspect. Will the kenny effect be enough to turn previous losses into draws and draws into wins. We're still pretty erratic away from home.
[/quote]

Which 10 factors have to be correct?
[/quote]

Okay, putting me on the spot

1. You have to be organised in defense.
2. You have to be compact in midfield.
3. You have to be clinical.
4. You have to able to defend under pressure for long periods.
5. You have to be able to hold up the ball.
6. You have to be able to change tactics quickly.
7. You have to be proactive rather than reactive.
8. You have have good options on the bench to be able to change the game if things are going tits up.
9. You have to be quick on the counter attack.
10. You have to be able to control the pace of the game and slow things down especially to quiet the crowd.

To much of the above Roy got wrong but some things (like being clinical) is beyond his control.
[/quote]

All of that applies to home games too.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

That sounds like that flipchart Roy Hodgson had.

You forgot scoring more goals.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45065.msg1320947#msg1320947 date=1303644743]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=45065.msg1320946#msg1320946 date=1303644572]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45065.msg1320941#msg1320941 date=1303643422]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=45065.msg1320939#msg1320939 date=1303643241]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45065.msg1320927#msg1320927 date=1303642280]
This is a bit of a 180 from Spidey, who had been blaming all our away results on Roys tactics up until now.
[/quote]

Sorry, meant can't put the blame solely on Roy. He was a massive factor and his tactics were a disgrace but it's not his fault we were profligate with chances and Shambolic in defense, srktel's positional sense was rubbish long before Roy came on the scene.

Let's say winning away from home has 10 factors to be correct, I'd say Roy got 6 of those factors wrong and the other 4 was poor players and luck. I think kenny can address a lot of what Roy got wrong but (for example) maxi will still be wasteful under pressure, skrtel's positional sense will still be suspect. Will the kenny effect be enough to turn previous losses into draws and draws into wins. We're still pretty erratic away from home.
[/quote]

Which 10 factors have to be correct?
[/quote]

Okay, putting me on the spot

1. You have to be organised in defense.
2. You have to be compact in midfield.
3. You have to be clinical.
4. You have to able to defend under pressure for long periods.
5. You have to be able to hold up the ball.
6. You have to be able to change tactics quickly.
7. You have to be proactive rather than reactive.
8. You have have good options on the bench to be able to change the game if things are going tits up.
9. You have to be quick on the counter attack.
10. You have to be able to control the pace of the game and slow things down especially to quiet the crowd.

To much of the above Roy got wrong but some things (like being clinical) is beyond his control.
[/quote]

Well done I'm sure you made most of those up! 🙂
Only one factor counts for me, that's scoring more goals than the opposition.
[/quote]


Okay, we'll ignore my away 10 and go with your away 1;


1. Scoring more than the opposition

How's that working for us so far?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Holle link=topic=45065.msg1320949#msg1320949 date=1303644828]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=45065.msg1320946#msg1320946 date=1303644572]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45065.msg1320941#msg1320941 date=1303643422]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=45065.msg1320939#msg1320939 date=1303643241]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45065.msg1320927#msg1320927 date=1303642280]
This is a bit of a 180 from Spidey, who had been blaming all our away results on Roys tactics up until now.
[/quote]

Sorry, meant can't put the blame solely on Roy. He was a massive factor and his tactics were a disgrace but it's not his fault we were profligate with chances and Shambolic in defense, srktel's positional sense was rubbish long before Roy came on the scene.

Let's say winning away from home has 10 factors to be correct, I'd say Roy got 6 of those factors wrong and the other 4 was poor players and luck. I think kenny can address a lot of what Roy got wrong but (for example) maxi will still be wasteful under pressure, skrtel's positional sense will still be suspect. Will the kenny effect be enough to turn previous losses into draws and draws into wins. We're still pretty erratic away from home.
[/quote]

Which 10 factors have to be correct?
[/quote]

Okay, putting me on the spot

1. You have to be organised in defense.
2. You have to be compact in midfield.
3. You have to be clinical.
4. You have to able to defend under pressure for long periods.
5. You have to be able to hold up the ball.
6. You have to be able to change tactics quickly.
7. You have to be proactive rather than reactive.
8. You have have good options on the bench to be able to change the game if things are going tits up.
9. You have to be quick on the counter attack.
10. You have to be able to control the pace of the game and slow things down especially to quiet the crowd.

To much of the above Roy got wrong but some things (like being clinical) is beyond his control.
[/quote]

All of that applies to home games too.
[/quote]

Not really as the majority of teams will sit deep and you'll be asked to break them down, so things like playing for long periods under pressure, remaining compact, slowing the game down, isn't really an issue. My away 10 being utilised at home is more for playing a top team like Manu, arsenal or Chelsea.

 

[Rosco]

^^^^
Conventional wisdom.

The reality is different

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Maybe you should be our manager Neil, with these radical ideas I'm sure Hodgson and co never thought of.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=45065.msg1320951#msg1320951 date=1303645054]
That sounds like that flipchart Roy Hodgson had.

You forgot scoring more goals.
[/quote]


If that's the case why didn't he (Roy) do it as the majority of the time we were all over the fucking place, look at man city away textbook 1-0-1 on how NOT to play away from home.

As for scoring more than the opposition, you need a platform to be able to do that otherwise it's just wishful thinking and if you DO somehow manage to get that goal you won't be able to hold that lead for long. How many times did we take the lead away only for sloppy defending to let the other team back in, I'm betting it was a lot.

 

[peekay]

Even if we were fighting to avoid relegation now, the beginning of next season I always believe that we are going to win the league.

So Oncy, count me in.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=45065.msg1320961#msg1320961 date=1303645965]
Maybe you should be our manager Neil, with these radical ideas I'm sure Hodgson and co never thought of.
[/quote]

None of my ideas are radical or far fetched it's football basics. Football is a very simple game and only requires basic tactics and competent players to carry out those instructions. I conceed you can be hampered by limited players but there are few excuses for poor tactics.

 

[spider-Neil]

Anyway back on track, I don't think we'll win the league as I don't think we'll win enough games away from home. You'll see very quickly in the start of the new season if that assumption (our away form) is correct.

 

[the_khl]

Count me in. Again.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=45065.msg1320928#msg1320928 date=1303642337]
Obviously I'm still in it, but can I ask that we don't put too much stock in our leader?

I'd like for the army to continue believing after General Oncy starts flipflopping.

shitwinkeysmiliethingy
[/quote]Bet im the last man standing.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=45065.msg1321019#msg1321019 date=1303658630]
[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=45065.msg1320928#msg1320928 date=1303642337]
Obviously I'm still in it, but can I ask that we don't put too much stock in our leader?

I'd like for the army to continue believing after General Oncy starts flipflopping.

shitwinkeysmiliethingy
[/quote]Bet im the last man standing.
[/quote]

ha ha I'll take that bet 😉

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45065.msg1320828#msg1320828 date=1303629390]
Speaking of Mount Doom, cheer the fuck
up Pat. We're playing with renewed vigour and freedom under Kenny that was unseen under Rafa and Hodgson. considering our injury list as well it's been no mean feat. Never mind fucking Mourinho and his recent home record cos Kenny hasn't lost a home game since 1989 ;-). I believe in big things happening in the summer. I believe in Kenny. I believe in our owners. I believe we'll be as good as anyone next year. I believe we've developed the best academy in the country, with great thanks to Rafa. The kids in the academy can also now believe they will get a chance under Kenny. Its a New dawn for Liverpool which is full of hope and belief. If you have no hope in your mind you may as well give up football. So stick the negativity right up your room of requirement

[/quote]

I love all of that except the bit about being as good as anyone else. We will be making alot of changing in the summer and it will take time to gel and bed in new players.

If we get fourth that would be an incredible achievement for Kenny.

Arsenal Utd City and Spurs are still well ahead of us as things stand.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=45065.msg1321141#msg1321141 date=1303670528]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45065.msg1320828#msg1320828 date=1303629390]
Speaking of Mount Doom, cheer the fuck
up Pat. We're playing with renewed vigour and freedom under Kenny that was unseen under Rafa and Hodgson. considering our injury list as well it's been no mean feat. Never mind fucking Mourinho and his recent home record cos Kenny hasn't lost a home game since 1989 ;-). I believe in big things happening in the summer. I believe in Kenny. I believe in our owners. I believe we'll be as good as anyone next year. I believe we've developed the best academy in the country, with great thanks to Rafa. The kids in the academy can also now believe they will get a chance under Kenny. Its a New dawn for Liverpool which is full of hope and belief. If you have no hope in your mind you may as well give up football. So stick the negativity right up your room of requirement

[/quote]

I love all of that except the bit about being as good as anyone else. We will be making alot of changing in the summer and it will take time to gel and bed in new players.

If we get fourth that would be an incredible achievement for Kenny.

Arsenal Utd City and Spurs are still well ahead of us as things stand.
[/quote]

I think 'well' ahead is exaggerating things a little. we're 3 points behind spurs despite having had argubly the worst manager in our history for 6 months.

 

[Sunny]

Pat is a glass half empty kind of guy. Form wise, we're not far away from Man U or Chelsea. That's with a shite squad that's depleted with injuries to some of our best players. We're not miles away and a few good signings will see us right in the mix.

 

[refugee]

I'm in

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=45065.msg1320967#msg1320967 date=1303646635]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=45065.msg1320961#msg1320961 date=1303645965]
Maybe you should be our manager Neil, with these radical ideas I'm sure Hodgson and co never thought of.
[/quote]

None of my ideas are radical or far fetched it's football basics. Football is a very simple game and only requires basic tactics and competent players to carry out those instructions. I conceed you can be hampered by limited players but there are few excuses for poor tactics.
[/quote]

You make the mistake of presuming everything that happens on the pitch is by design

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45065.msg1321182#msg1321182 date=1303677521]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=45065.msg1320967#msg1320967 date=1303646635]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=45065.msg1320961#msg1320961 date=1303645965]
Maybe you should be our manager Neil, with these radical ideas I'm sure Hodgson and co never thought of.
[/quote]

None of my ideas are radical or far fetched it's football basics. Football is a very simple game and only requires basic tactics and competent players to carry out those instructions. I conceed you can be hampered by limited players but there are few excuses for poor tactics.
[/quote]

You make the mistake of presuming everything that happens on the pitch is by design
[/quote]

I do no such thing, I do however expect a tactically astute manager to have several aces up his sleeve to deal with difficult situations rather than throwing strikers at the problem with 10 minutes to go.

 

[acejmk]

Well I'm well pleased at the improvements we are showing long live the king I say, and I'm also well happy to be a member of the army 8)

 

[cobrastatus]

My god, if Brendan were still around he'd have a field day in this thread with spidey. He just pulled ten random factors out of a hat for winning away from home, constructed a straw man out of them, and now we're arguing with him on these ambiguous, meaningless terms. Ross has the right idea.

We still love you Neil, but you're talking shit.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=cobrastatus link=topic=45065.msg1321216#msg1321216 date=1303685537]
My god, if Brendan were still around he'd have a field day in this thread with spidey. He just pulled ten random factors out of a hat for winning away from home, constructed a straw man out of them, and now we're arguing with him on these ambiguous, meaningless terms. Ross has the right idea.

We still love you Neil, but you're talking shit.
[/quote]

those points are not random and absolutely vital for away games. if you don't agree with them, fine, but I didn't pull them from my arse.
as for my talking shit, you bring up brendan but he isn't here, but you are, so exactly which point did I make that is full of shit? read my points again and tell me exactly which point is flawed.
you can say my points aren't rocket science (although we consistently fail to do the basics away from home) but you can't say they are full of shit and if you think they are full of shit please tell me which point is rubbish.

that was a wonderfully patronising post with absolutely nothing whatsoever to back up your arguement, forget bren, pick the holes in my arguement yourself.

my ealier post again;

1. You have to be organised in defense.
2. You have to be compact in midfield.
3. You have to be clinical.
4. You have to able to defend under pressure for long periods.
5. You have to be able to hold up the ball.
6. You have to be able to change tactics quickly.
7. You have to be proactive rather than reactive.
8. You have have good options on the bench to be able to change the game if things are going tits up.
9. You have to be quick on the counter attack.
10. You have to be able to control the pace of the game and slow things down especially to quiet the crowd.

exactly which one of those points is bullshit, the floor is open, let's hear you pick it apart.