Downing

[Fabio]

Bollocks. Maxi does fuck all for the team more often than not and had a great spell at the end if the season. That's it. Downing works much better for the team. And how can you say downing won't score a hat trick when he's only ever been utilized out wide. Maxi played in a role more centralized and was told to make late runs into the box

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Sell Maxi.

 

[gene hughes]

Downing is gonna be a fucking beast next season, he's gonna rip defences apart and get loads of assists and about 10 goals.

I can't believe you guys can't close your eyes and imagine this the way I can.

 

[spider-Neil]

you can let those two hattricks cloud your opinion but more often than not in a liverpool shirt maxi has gone missing. downing would be a left footed, left midfielder in a side that badly that badly need balance. maxi pretty tore things up when the s un was shining and the pressure was mostly off.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=44931.msg1355469#msg1355469 date=1309090408]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=44931.msg1355465#msg1355465 date=1309090002]
[quote author=Lewy link=topic=44931.msg1355460#msg1355460 date=1309089759]
maxis better than downing when he's on form, but how oftens that been? 2 games at the end of the season? downings much more consistent
[/quote]When utilised correctly as he was he was unplayable. Stewart Downing will never EVER score 8 goals in 4 games. He will never score a hattrick.
Maxi is a much better player.
[/quote]

I never forget a man's crimes. Maxi scoring those hattricks was meaningless as the season was already over. A terrible depressing utter mess of a season. Maxi is partly responsible for that and I want him to pay for it. So far Downing has committed no crimes although that is likely to change. People should pay and suffer, you can't let Maxi just waltz around melwood picking up a paycheck as if last season never happened.
[/quote]Maxi played well when he came under Benitez, then barely had a look in under Roy.
Then when allowed to play he thrived.
Its the Maxi ive seen for years for Argentina and Atleti.
Im not saying we CANT do better btw, he isnt fast, he doesnt score (enough) etc....im just saying Downing isnt bettering him.

 

[King Binny]

[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=44931.msg1355474#msg1355474 date=1309090712]
Downing is gonna be a fucking beast next season, he's gonna rip defences apart and get loads of assists and about 10 goals.

I can't believe you guys can't close your eyes and imagine this the way I can.
[/quote]

Ha. He's not far away. Afterall, he'd 7 goals and 7 assists last season. 😛

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=44931.msg1355482#msg1355482 date=1309091468]
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=44931.msg1355469#msg1355469 date=1309090408]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=44931.msg1355465#msg1355465 date=1309090002]
[quote author=Lewy link=topic=44931.msg1355460#msg1355460 date=1309089759]
maxis better than downing when he's on form, but how oftens that been? 2 games at the end of the season? downings much more consistent
[/quote]When utilised correctly as he was he was unplayable. Stewart Downing will never EVER score 8 goals in 4 games. He will never score a hattrick.
Maxi is a much better player.
[/quote]

I never forget a man's crimes. Maxi scoring those hattricks was meaningless as the season was already over. A terrible depressing utter mess of a season. Maxi is partly responsible for that and I want him to pay for it. So far Downing has committed no crimes although that is likely to change. People should pay and suffer, you can't let Maxi just waltz around melwood picking up a paycheck as if last season never happened.
[/quote]Maxi played well when he came under Benitez, then barely had a look in under Roy.
Then when allowed to play he thrived.
Its the Maxi ive seen for years for Argentina and Atleti.
Im not saying we CANT do better btw, he isnt fast, he doesnt score (enough) etc....im just saying Downing isnt bettering him.
[/quote]

maxi will drift inside and isn't likely to cross as often as we need him to. our side badly needs width and maxi isn't likely to provide that width. you can say maxi is far better than downing but for the most part in england he hasn't proved that to be the case.

 

[Frogfish]

It's all a rather irrelevant debate .... Maxi wants to go home to Newell's and I think we'll let him go for a cut-price once we've got our targets.

 

[OLD_Lewy]

been watchin some of downing and adams youtube videos again, and while they are pretty underwhelming its clear that they're gonna create a lot of chances for carrol that will take the majority of the focus of defenders, with suarez buzzing round the box and gerrard and co hangin outside are attack will be deadly, if we get mata in there too we'd deffo have one of the strongest attacks in the league

the problem is that by the looks of things we'd have nobody to do the dirty defending in midfield apart from lucas, and although i think he's been great its far too much for him to do it all on his own, especially when we have a bit of a dodgy backline at the moment

 

[zlatan18]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=44931.msg1355459#msg1355459 date=1309089661]
You cant sugarcoat 20m for Stewart Downing and 16m for Jordan Henderson.
You just cant do it. Its 30 odd million on two players who dont really do anything about improving us. Maxi is better than Downing and ALL our CM's are better than Henderson.

I love signings as much as the next man, but these two and Adam are in no way good value.

[/quote]

What a joke!!
Maxi is nowhere near Downing, just because maxi had 2 good games all of a sudden he is Messi on this forum. Henderson is better than shelvey and better than spearing, but he isnt just a CM he can play out wide too

 

[Molbystwin]

Maxi is much much better than Downing and -20M pounds....

I'd suggest it's fucking ridiculous to say otherwise.

Thirty pages of lunacy in one thread.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=44931.msg1355501#msg1355501 date=1309093871]
Maxi is much much better than Downing and -20M pounds....

I'd suggest it's fucking ridiculous to say otherwise.

Thirty pages of lunacy in one thread.
[/quote]

maxi has done next to fuck all in a liverpool shirt. I thought he was excellent for AM but so what, kewell was excellent for leeds.

 

[OLD_Lewy]

they should ask people in job interviews if maxis better than downing, good way to sort out the idiots from the sane

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44931.msg1355437#msg1355437 date=1309084802]
would be interesting to know if;
henderson
adam
downing

are kenny's first choice. if they ARE his first choice and integral to his plans then you just have to trust the manager. you either trust him and back him or remove him. if they are not his first choice maybe we can't get his first choice.
[/quote]

Let's get the excuses in early eh ?

I don't care whether a player is his first, second or tenth choice. He better be sure they will deliver. Otherwise don't sign them.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Lewy link=topic=44931.msg1355503#msg1355503 date=1309094076]
they should ask people in job interviews if maxis better than downing, good way to sort out the idiots from the sane
[/quote]

I think that maxi is a top player with terrific technique but for 'LIVERPOOL' he has done next to nothing. I would be amazed if downing came to liverpool and did worse. so it's not a matter of 'better' it's a matter of impact and contribution and maxi has had little of either for liverpool to the point I'm not asked if he does fuck off back to argentina.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=44931.msg1355459#msg1355459 date=1309089661]
You cant sugarcoat 20m for Stewart Downing and 16m for Jordan Henderson.
You just cant do it. Its 30 odd million on two players who dont really do anything about improving us. Maxi is better than Downing and ALL our CM's are better than Henderson.

I love signings as much as the next man, but these two and Adam are in no way good value.

[/quote]

At least Henderson is likely to improve. I don't really know where I stand on his signing but we're getting him at the right age if nothing else.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1355507#msg1355507 date=1309094595]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44931.msg1355437#msg1355437 date=1309084802]
would be interesting to know if;
henderson
adam
downing

are kenny's first choice. if they ARE his first choice and integral to his plans then you just have to trust the manager. you either trust him and back him or remove him. if they are not his first choice maybe we can't get his first choice.
[/quote]

Let's get the excuses in early eh ?

I don't care whether a player is his first, second or tenth choice. He better be sure they will deliver. Otherwise don't sign them.
[/quote]

you never said who your alternatives are, ros.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44931.msg1355511#msg1355511 date=1309094794]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1355507#msg1355507 date=1309094595]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44931.msg1355437#msg1355437 date=1309084802]
would be interesting to know if;
henderson
adam
downing

are kenny's first choice. if they ARE his first choice and integral to his plans then you just have to trust the manager. you either trust him and back him or remove him. if they are not his first choice maybe we can't get his first choice.
[/quote]

Let's get the excuses in early eh ?

I don't care whether a player is his first, second or tenth choice. He better be sure they will deliver. Otherwise don't sign them.
[/quote]

you never said who your alternatives are, ros.
[/quote]

Why do I need to ?

I'm not receiving scouting reports and vidoes of players from all around the world. If only I had FM2011. ...

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44931.msg1355434#msg1355434 date=1309084498]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1355428#msg1355428 date=1309084114]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44931.msg1355425#msg1355425 date=1309083889]
real
barca
manu
chelsea
man city
arsenal
juve
inter
AC

a list of the top teams in europe currently
most of those teams have;
huge sums behind them (in some cases a blank cheque) for the tranfer fee/wages
a located in the captial
are in the CL
play in a hot climate

and we are going to sweep in and secure the likes of hazard, sanchez, aguero etc right from under their nose (even though we did secure suarez).
imho we need to claw our way into a CL position and then we will be in a position to get a better calibre of player.
[/quote]

Most of them don't have many of those conditions attached to them.

And Juve finished 7th in Italy last year, hardly one of the best teams in Europe.

We can do better than Downing, spunking 20m on him in order to get back in the CL is a waste of time and money.

I accept we can't sign every player out there, that has always been the case. Liverpool is not going to be top of the list for many European players. That doesn't mean we have to sign Downing for 20m. (I'd be happy with signing him for 12m or less btw)

[/quote]

we could of course spend that 20m (if it is 20m) on mata who has indicated he wants to come to liverpool but that is also a gamble.
[/quote]

Ross and keniget are right.

As for Mata being a gamble, what player isnt a gamble?

Premiership proven at one Premiership club guarantees nothing once he's transferred to another Premiership club, just ask Robbie Keane.

 

[Frogfish]

Well this thread just say so much for this 'In Kenny We Trust' eh !

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1355516#msg1355516 date=1309095172]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44931.msg1355511#msg1355511 date=1309094794]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1355507#msg1355507 date=1309094595]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44931.msg1355437#msg1355437 date=1309084802]
would be interesting to know if;
henderson
adam
downing

are kenny's first choice. if they ARE his first choice and integral to his plans then you just have to trust the manager. you either trust him and back him or remove him. if they are not his first choice maybe we can't get his first choice.
[/quote]

Let's get the excuses in early eh ?

I don't care whether a player is his first, second or tenth choice. He better be sure they will deliver. Otherwise don't sign them.
[/quote]

you never said who your alternatives are, ros.
[/quote]

Why do I need to ?

I'm not receiving scouting reports and vidoes of players from all around the world. If only I had FM2011. ...
[/quote]

Before that fucking El Cuntarito was picked up by the Scum for 7 million, had anyone on this forum even heard of him?

No, because we're not scouts.

The truth of the matter is that the players we're being linked with will probably improve us, but the decisions being taken here will impact this club a lot longer than one season.

We're still desperately trying to shift REAMS of shit bought years ago for huge amounts of money and on huge wages.

No one is afraid this could be happening again?

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=44931.msg1355519#msg1355519 date=1309095576]
Well this thread just say so much for this 'In Kenny We Trust' eh !
[/quote]

Wanting us to buy better players and to not spend money on average doesnt mean faith is lost with Kenny Dalglsh.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Avvy link=topic=44931.msg1355523#msg1355523 date=1309095695]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=44931.msg1355519#msg1355519 date=1309095576]
Well this thread just say so much for this 'In Kenny We Trust' eh !
[/quote]

Wanting us to buy better players and to not spend money on average doesnt mean faith is lost with Kenny Dalglsh.
[/quote]

Problem with that view avvy is that people complaining are giving an impression that they could do better with regards to signings. I understand that the ones so far don't inspire but FFS the international window isn't open yet.

And re: scouting network, how do we know we weren't looking at hernandez? And even if we weren't so what? No one could predict he'd do this well. It's about taking risks which I don't think Kenny wants to do yet as we're so frail across the park. He's buying young players with sell on value so if needs be we can shift. Not over the hill frees.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Avvy link=topic=44931.msg1355517#msg1355517 date=1309095349]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44931.msg1355434#msg1355434 date=1309084498]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1355428#msg1355428 date=1309084114]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44931.msg1355425#msg1355425 date=1309083889]
real
barca
manu
chelsea
man city
arsenal
juve
inter
AC

a list of the top teams in europe currently
most of those teams have;
huge sums behind them (in some cases a blank cheque) for the tranfer fee/wages
a located in the captial
are in the CL
play in a hot climate

and we are going to sweep in and secure the likes of hazard, sanchez, aguero etc right from under their nose (even though we did secure suarez).
imho we need to claw our way into a CL position and then we will be in a position to get a better calibre of player.
[/quote]

Most of them don't have many of those conditions attached to them.

And Juve finished 7th in Italy last year, hardly one of the best teams in Europe.

We can do better than Downing, spunking 20m on him in order to get back in the CL is a waste of time and money.

I accept we can't sign every player out there, that has always been the case. Liverpool is not going to be top of the list for many European players. That doesn't mean we have to sign Downing for 20m. (I'd be happy with signing him for 12m or less btw)

[/quote]

we could of course spend that 20m (if it is 20m) on mata who has indicated he wants to come to liverpool but that is also a gamble.
[/quote]

Ross and keniget are right.

As for Mata being a gamble, what player isnt a gamble?

Premiership proven at one Premiership club guarantees nothing once he's transferred to another Premiership club, just ask Robbie Keane.
[/quote]

keni and ros are right about what? downing is mediocre and we should sign better? that's hardly a news flash but there are lots of factors to consider;
we aren't in europe

for two seasons in a row we've failed to challenge.

our star player moved on because he felt we weren't challeging (whether that is true or not that IS why torres moved on)

other teams can play higher wages

we aren't located in the capital and it rains here...a lot.

we are still a big draw but we aren't the biggest draw so it is a little nieve to expect the best players. and we are going to have to crawl our way up the table so we are linked with the hazards' of this world rather than the downings. I can understand mata's name being brought up every five seconds but not the likes of martinez as we'd have to beat off europes top teams in the CL, AND pay him higher wages AND convince he to come to the cold NW. we managed it with suarez but that is looking to be increasingly the exception rather then the rule.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Avvy link=topic=44931.msg1355523#msg1355523 date=1309095695]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=44931.msg1355519#msg1355519 date=1309095576]
Well this thread just say so much for this 'In Kenny We Trust' eh !
[/quote]

Wanting us to buy better players and to not spend money on average doesnt mean faith is lost with Kenny Dalglsh.
[/quote]

Actually it says a lot. Henderson, Adam and Downing are all now getting crapped on in their respective threads (or others). So that begs the question that if Kenny & Comolli think they add something to our team/squad, that they are what we need, and they believe they are worth the respective fees we have paid (are about to pay) how come so many people on 6CM think they are ; shite /average/not-worth-the-money ? Give you one guess what it says.

 

[Rosco]

So you're advocating the signing of a player you're describing as mediocre for 20m ?

You mental bellend.

Downing is decent and a marginal improvement, but not worth anywhere near 20m.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1355528#msg1355528 date=1309096300]
So you're advocating the signing of a player you're describing as mediocre for 20m ?

You mental bellend.

Downing is decent and a marginal improvement, but not worth anywhere near 20m.
[/quote]

easy with the name calling.

I'm not advocating anything, I'm saying signing players isn't easy and at level you have to trust the manager or what's the point of having him in charge.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44931.msg1355532#msg1355532 date=1309096482]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44931.msg1355528#msg1355528 date=1309096300]
So you're advocating the signing of a player you're describing as mediocre for 20m ?

You mental bellend.

Downing is decent and a marginal improvement, but not worth anywhere near 20m.
[/quote]

easy with the name calling.

I'm not advocating anything, I'm saying signing players isn't easy and at level you have to trust the manager or what's the point of having him in charge.
[/quote]

Spidey you're defending the signing of Downing for 20m, while saying he's mediocre and everyone knows it. And also saying we need to trust the manager, why ?

You're all over the place.

If history has shown us anything in football it's that managers will waste money. 86% of money spent on transfers doesn't have a positive effect on a team - according to recent studies. I'd argue the manager is the last person we should trust on transfers given that.

 

[mark1975]

I think the point Neil is making is pretty obvious, as for molby, change the fucking record, it's irriating to say the least, and Maxi is not better, he's been a fucking disaster. A purple patch for a few games and suddenly hes a World beater, that's a bit rich coming from the same posters slating Downing on the back of a top 'season' for Villa.

 

[Rosco]

the only point I can see him making is that we shouldn't complain even when Kenny is making decisions we think are stupid.

I think that's obscene.