Dalglish Out !

[themn]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/kennys-from-heaven-er-not-exactly-2353205.html

Kenny's from heaven? Er, not exactly
Stoke City 1 Liverpool 0

By Russell Kempson at the Britannia Stadium
Monday, 12 September 2011

Kenny Dalglish, Liverpool legend. He rescued us from Roy Hodgson and will return us to the promised land of a top-four finish in the League and a natural resumption of Champions League hostilities in 2011-12. Our rightful place, where we belong.

That is how it looked to the bewildered fans at Anfield in January this year after the car-crash reign of Hodgson had mercifully ended. And that is how it felt on the Kop when Dalglish's temporary role became permanent in May. "King Kenny" was back. What could go wrong?

But the facts – as yet – do not back up the blinkered idolatry. The defeat against Stoke City here on Saturday was Liverpool's eighth loss in 28 matches since Dalglish sifted through the Hodgson debris and embarked on his emergency salvage operation.

Perhaps 14 wins and six draws are the better stats to view but do not forget, either, the tame exit from the Europa League last season against Sporting Braga, of Portugal, and the 2-0 home defeat against Spurs that threw away qualification for the same competition this season. Champions League it ain't but, it's Europe, Liverpool's previously perennial playground.

And did not Dalglish spend £55.5m this summer to revamp his squad? Which, so far, has produced a 1-1 home draw with Sunderland, a 2-0 win over an imploding Arsenal, a 3-1 stroll at Exeter City in the Carling Cup, the same scoreline at home to Bolton ... and a put-me-down in the Potteries.

Reputable names may ripple through the Liverpool ranks but it is very much a work in progress. Restoring former glories can take years and perhaps Dalglish needs to infuse just a smidgeon of the Stoke spirit into the genetic make-up. "That's the DNA of the club," said Stoke's manager, Tony Pulis. Without that stirring DNA, an ingrained defiance of all supposedly superior beings, Stoke would not have survived. But once Jamie Carragher had clumsily felled Jonathan Walters, and Walters had thundered in the penalty, Dalglish's best-laid plans hung by a thread. "It was a bit harsh," said Carragher. "We have had one [penalty] go against us and a couple not go for us."

Dalglish simply demeaned himself by claiming a kind of conspiracy against Liverpool from match officials in each of their opening four League matches. Get real, Kenny. Once upon a time, was it not the "big four" clubs that had all the big decisions go in their favour? Of course it was.

But, of course, once upon a time, Liverpool were a "big four" club. On Thursday, in Champions League week, Stoke go to Dynamo Kiev in the Europa League. The Liverpool players, er, have the evening off. As the Second Coming of Dalglish, the legend, takes shape, he still has much to prove.

Scorer: Stoke City Walters pen 21.

Substitutes: Stoke Wilkinson 6 (Huth, 65), Jones 6 (Etherington, 67), Palacios (Delap, 71),. Liverpool Bellamy 5 (Henderson, 67), Carroll 5 (Kuyt 67), Johnson (Skrtel, 82).

Booked: Liverpool Suarez.

Man of the match Shawcross. Match rating 8/10.

Possession: Stoke 41% Liverpool 59%.

Attempts on target: Stoke 1 Liverpool 11.

Referee M Clattenburg (Tyne & Wear)

Attendance 27,592.

 

[themn]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/sep/11/liverpool-kenny-dalglish-strain


Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish shows strain after Stoke defeat
• Dalglish complains about standard of Premier League referees
• Liverpool consider lodging an official complaint



Stoke City 1
Walters (pen) 21
Liverpool 0
Sachin Nakrani at the Britannia Stadium
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 11 September 2011 22.59 BST


The Liverpool manager, Kenny Dalglish, centre, was unhappy with the refereeing during his side's 1-0 defeat at Stoke City. Photograph: Eddie Keogh/Reuters
For those with ambition and an appreciation of history there are few more appealing jobs in football than that of Liverpool manager. But the time may have come to issue the post with a health warning; a recognition that taking over at Anfield could make you as deeply paranoid as Gérard Houllier, as obsessively contentious as Rafael Benítez, as visibly bewildered as Roy Hodgson and now, it seems, as shockingly enraged as Kenny Dalglish.

The Scot has been the personification of joviality since returning to Liverpool in January, but it felt as if a turning point had been reached on Saturday. Four games into the new season, and in the aftermath of the club's first defeat of a campaign in which they are aiming to challenge for a Champions League place, Dalglish has decided to ditch the nice?guy act.

His ire is with the standard of refereeing in the Premier League, believing Liverpool have been victims of "contentious decisions" in every one of their fixtures so far. This was only enhanced at the weekend when Mark Clattenburg, the official in charge, awarded Stoke the penalty from which Jonathan Walters scored the game's only goal and denied Liverpool one of their own late on when Matthew Upson, stationed inside the host's area, appeared to block Luis Suárez's cross with his arm.

"We would like to be respectful to the referees but more importantly is them having respect for my club," said the Liverpool manager, "and if I feel we're suffering in any way, then I may need to go the same route as some others and see if I can gain some benefit from that."

Dalglish declined to expand on his plans, insisting he would "speak to [the club's] owners first" before making any moves, the most obvious of which appears to be an official complaint to the Premier League. Liverpool did not confirm on Sunday if that was indeed his intention.

For its part, it is understood the Football Association is unlikely to discipline Dalglish for his comments given he did not criticise or question the integrity of any referee in particular.

That may come as a relief to the 60-year-old but for his admirers there may remain concern over his loss of temper, the sense, even, that for the second time in two decades the task of managing Liverpool is proving too great a responsibilty for the club's greatest player.

Dalglish would dispute that and it could be deemed that his frustrations on Saturday had more to do with team's failure to win a third league game in succession, despite their dominance of proceedings. Liverpool had almost 73% of the possession, created 16 shots on goal – compared to Stoke's two – and, as Dalglish pointed out, were denied what did appear to be an obvious penalty. In fairness to Clattenburg, the one he awarded Stoke appeared a fair one given how it resulted from Jamie Carragher's hauling down of Walters as the forward ran in on goal.

The visitors' wastefulness was, in reality, their true downfall and seen most starkly just after the hour when, between them, Jordan Henderson and Charlie Adam had five shots on goal saved by Stoke's defence in a matter of seconds.

"We played well, it was just one of those days when we couldn't hit the net," said Stewart Downing. "Hopefully we'll be able to do that at Tottenham next week. We've just got to keep doing the same things."

That last sentiment is one that would be shared by Stoke, who are now unbeaten in eight games and face a first ever group-stage match in the Europa League when they travel to Dynamo Kyiv on Thursday.

"We've started well but are still 32 points from safety," said the Stoke manager, Tony Pulis. "Any side can beat you on any given day, so we've to keep our feet on the ground and take nothing for granted." Pulis's delight extended to the debut display of Peter Crouch following his £10m move from Tottenham on deadline day. The striker was quiet but showed plenty of eagerness.

The same could be said of Craig Bellamy, who marked his return to Liverpool as a snarling, second-half substitute. As it transpired, he was not the only one from the visitors' camp who was in a petulant mood in the Potteries.

 

[Athens]

I suppose if you work in the media you really struggle for new stuff to write on a daily basis.

 

[FoxForceFive]

Re: Sack Dalglish !

Hahaha, shite article.

Whilst we werent exactly memorable yesterday, it was literally just our finishing that let us down. They scored from a penalty, without it there was no danger of them scoring.

When finishing is the only problem in your side it isn't that worrying, & that article doesn't even mention anything about the game bar the peno, it's a poorly written filler piece, & I'd be amazed if the journo wasn't given the task to write about cracks in Kenny's new look side in X amount of words & that was the best he could come up with, it reeks of him struggling to find facts to fit his brief.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=themn link=topic=46838.msg1397888#msg1397888 date=1315816704]
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/kennys-from-heaven-er-not-exactly-2353205.html

Kenny's from heaven? Er, not exactly
Stoke City 1 Liverpool 0

By Russell Kempson at the Britannia Stadium
Monday, 12 September 2011

Kenny Dalglish, Liverpool legend. He rescued us from Roy Hodgson and will return us to the promised land of a top-four finish in the League and a natural resumption of Champions League hostilities in 2011-12. Our rightful place, where we belong.

That is how it looked to the bewildered fans at Anfield in January this year after the car-crash reign of Hodgson had mercifully ended. And that is how it felt on the Kop when Dalglish's temporary role became permanent in May. "King Kenny" was back. What could go wrong?

But the facts – as yet – do not back up the blinkered idolatry. The defeat against Stoke City here on Saturday was Liverpool's eighth loss in 28 matches since Dalglish sifted through the Hodgson debris and embarked on his emergency salvage operation.

Perhaps 14 wins and six draws are the better stats to view but do not forget, either, the tame exit from the Europa League last season against Sporting Braga, of Portugal, and the 2-0 home defeat against Spurs that threw away qualification for the same competition this season. Champions League it ain't but, it's Europe, Liverpool's previously perennial playground.

And did not Dalglish spend £55.5m this summer to revamp his squad? Which, so far, has produced a 1-1 home draw with Sunderland, a 2-0 win over an imploding Arsenal, a 3-1 stroll at Exeter City in the Carling Cup, the same scoreline at home to Bolton ... and a put-me-down in the Potteries.

Reputable names may ripple through the Liverpool ranks but it is very much a work in progress. Restoring former glories can take years and perhaps Dalglish needs to infuse just a smidgeon of the Stoke spirit into the genetic make-up. "That's the DNA of the club," said Stoke's manager, Tony Pulis. Without that stirring DNA, an ingrained defiance of all supposedly superior beings, Stoke would not have survived. But once Jamie Carragher had clumsily felled Jonathan Walters, and Walters had thundered in the penalty, Dalglish's best-laid plans hung by a thread. "It was a bit harsh," said Carragher. "We have had one [penalty] go against us and a couple not go for us."

Dalglish simply demeaned himself by claiming a kind of conspiracy against Liverpool from match officials in each of their opening four League matches. Get real, Kenny. Once upon a time, was it not the "big four" clubs that had all the big decisions go in their favour? Of course it was.

But, of course, once upon a time, Liverpool were a "big four" club. On Thursday, in Champions League week, Stoke go to Dynamo Kiev in the Europa League. The Liverpool players, er, have the evening off. As the Second Coming of Dalglish, the legend, takes shape, he still has much to prove.

Scorer: Stoke City Walters pen 21.

Substitutes: Stoke Wilkinson 6 (Huth, 65), Jones 6 (Etherington, 67), Palacios (Delap, 71),. Liverpool Bellamy 5 (Henderson, 67), Carroll 5 (Kuyt 67), Johnson (Skrtel, 82).

Booked: Liverpool Suarez.

Man of the match Shawcross. Match rating 8/10.

Possession: Stoke 41% Liverpool 59%.

Attempts on target: Stoke 1 Liverpool 11.

Referee M Clattenburg (Tyne & Wear)

Attendance 27,592.
[/quote]

fucking PATHETIC!! fucking rubbish article

 

[gkmacca]

I notice that when we win, Steve Clarke usually gets plenty of kudos as the real tactical mastermind behind the scenes. When we lose, he's never mentioned. Great job, that.

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=46838.msg1397911#msg1397911 date=1315819472]
I notice that when we win, Steve Clarke usually gets plenty of kudos as the real tactical mastermind behind the scenes. When we lose, he's never mentioned. Great job, that.
[/quote]

TBF though, he's generally regarded as the defensive coach, & whilst it was a defensive error that cost us, it was an individual error (well, choice to foul in the box) not a tactical or coaching error as such.

The problem was a lack of incisiveness in front of goal, which is generally regarded as Kenny's area of expertise.

 

[King Binny]

Dalglish simply demeaned himself by claiming a kind of conspiracy against Liverpool from match officials in each of their opening four League matches.

Wonder what the journo's take on Fergie's routine outbursts. :-\

 

[gkmacca]

Dermot Gallagher today praised Dalglish for the way he made his remarks.

 

[gkmacca]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=46838.msg1397922#msg1397922 date=1315821109]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=46838.msg1397911#msg1397911 date=1315819472]
I notice that when we win, Steve Clarke usually gets plenty of kudos as the real tactical mastermind behind the scenes. When we lose, he's never mentioned. Great job, that.
[/quote]

TBF though, he's generally regarded as the defensive coach, & whilst it was a defensive error that cost us, it was an individual error (well, choice to foul in the box) not a tactical or coaching error as such.

The problem was a lack of incisiveness in front of goal, which is generally regarded as Kenny's area of expertise.
[/quote]

I know, I'm not disputing that, but I was commenting on the typical responses to when we win, especially in the second half of last season.

 

[gareth_thomas]

We have been on the end of a lot of shit calls in the last couple of years.... unfortunately for us they really fuck us up. The seasoned winners seem to find a way to win regardless.

i have more faith with our current squad that these stupid losses will soon decrease...

 

[Y1]

What Hog Wash!

 

[Y1]

Sorry Tomkins to the rescue! For a change a short rebuttal!

http://tomkinstimes.com/2011/09/kenny-dalglish-is-ruining-liverpool/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheTomkinsTimes+%28The+Tomkins+Times%29

Maybe it’s the incredible start made by the Manchester clubs, or maybe it’s just that there are a lot of idiots out there. But I cannot abide the doom and gloom that follows one bad result, particularly when it was not a bad performance.

It’s not just the knee-jerk fans on Twitter, whose reaction to anything less than 114 points a season is rapid implosion; two respected broadsheet newspapers ran execrable pieces on the Stoke game.

Russell Kempson, writing in the Independent, sets the scene by paraphrasing Liverpool fans:

“Kenny Dalglish, Liverpool legend. He rescued us from Roy Hodgson and will return us to the promised land of a top-four finish in the League and a natural resumption of Champions League hostilities in 2011-12. Our rightful place, where we belong.”

Having set Dalglish up to be a man who can do no wrong in the eyes of Kopites, he then says:

“But the facts – as yet – do not back up the blinkered idolatry. The defeat against Stoke City here on Saturday was Liverpool’s eighth loss in 28 matches since Dalglish sifted through the Hodgson debris and embarked on his emergency salvage operation.”

Eight defeats? Sounds bad. Sounds terrible. Sack him! What’s next, Russell?

“Perhaps 14 wins and six draws are the better stats to view…”

Incredible – just truly incredible. Why would you focus first on the negative, taking it out of context of the overall picture, which is not negative when view as a whole? Surely the wins, draws and defeats are all part of one single reality?

Up to a certain point, the amount of games lost has no bearing on league success; the table works on points won. You could lose 8 games and win 30, and you’d win the title. (Liverpool lost only 2 games in 2008/09, fewer than the champions, but that didn’t stop Rafa getting criticised; Liverpool were excellent that season, but sadly for us, United were slightly better.)

Kempson sets the scene with talk of the top four. His entire argument, set out by that paragraph, relates to qualifying for the Champions League. So why isn’t he focusing on league form? Why is he including the Europa League, which was of little consequence last season, and cup games, which included a visit to Old Trafford as soon as the manager had stepped into the breach? You don’t qualify for the Champions League by winning cups.

Liverpool, who currently sit 5th (miles away from the top four, clearly, although my maths can’t calculate the distance), have won 40 points in 22 games since Dalglish returned.

Over 38 games, that would equate to 69 points. And in the history of the Premier League since four spots were available, 69 points has meant certain Champions League qualification.

Let’s go back, and remind ourselves of what Kempson said:

“But the facts – as yet – do not back up the blinkered idolatry.”

… Except they do, if the blinkered idolatry referred to was outlined in the opening gambit. I mean, if you’re going to use facts, at least get the bloody things right.

But there’s more. This is 69 points (pro rata) achieved without Steven Gerrard for all but a couple of games.

It is 69 points (pro rata) achieved with an injury crisis at the end of last season, and a squad that included a mix of the sublime, the good and bad signed by Rafa, and the raft of duds signed by Hodgson, none of whom feature anymore. It included a month with no fit strikers, as Fernando Torres slung his hook.

It also ignores the fact that Liverpool absolutely smothered Stoke, with the vast majority of the possession, territory, shots (11 on target to one for Stoke – the penalty) and corners, but a case when finishing, rather than tactics, let the club down. Had the incredible Luis Suarez not missed a good chance at the death – in keeping with when Steven Gerrard hit the post at 0-0 on the same ground with the last kick of the game following ‘Rafa’s rant’ – then there’d be no story here. Instead, there’s a storm.

Whether or not Dalglish repays the fans’ faith and idolatry is yet to be decided. But so far, all the evidence – which Kempson refers to, but fails to correctly analyse – actually disproves the author’s own thesis. (Or, should that be, half-arsed idea scratched on the back of a fag packet?)

Dalglish took over when the Reds were 12th. He took them up to 6th, and now has the team sitting 5th. Obviously this is the clear pattern of a man who doesn’t know what he’s doing – who is ruining our club while we blindly sing his praises.

But it gets worse. Writing in the Guardian, Sachin Nakrani said:

“…That may come as a relief to the 60-year-old [Dalglish] but for his admirers there may remain concern over his loss of temper, the sense, even, that for the second time in two decades the task of managing Liverpool is proving too great a responsibility for the club’s greatest player.”

Wow. I mean, seriously. Wow. Manager loses temper after defeat and shows frustration with officials. It can only mean one thing: he’s having a nervous breakdown and cannot handle the pressure.

In which case, roughly half of the Premier League’s managers have a nervous breakdown every weekend, and come May, each and every one of them therefore needs be sectioned for his (and society’s) safety.

To bring up Dalglish’s post-Hillsborough stress is despicable. In the aftermath of the tragedy his management was affected, because he was still living amidst the consequences and was physically ill from the stress of having to deal with the deaths of almost 100 Liverpool fans. But 22 years have passed. If anything, the experience should now make him stronger and wiser. To any sane observer, that seems to be the case.

When things aren’t going his way, Alex Ferguson rants and raves at journalists, swearing at them, and when he’s upset with his players he throws boots in their faces, but he’s just a winner, showing his winning mentality; not ‘losing the plot’ in the way that others are when they show a bit of emotion. Dalglish moans that, for the 4th game running the Reds have been denied either a penalty or an opposition red card, and he’s having some kind of mental collapse that suggests he can’t handle the job. Whether or not he is right about the refereeing decisions, he’s just doing what managers do.

So, dear readers, I apologise for my optimism under Dalglish, which has seen me claim that the Reds can reach the top four under his guidance, after the nightmare of being a bottom-half team last season before his arrival.

Clearly, having read this morning’s newspapers, he’s ruining Liverpool, and needs to be sacked forthwith. I hear that Roy Hodgson won a game this weekend; presumably he’s now the man for the job?

 

[iseered]

Agree wholeheartedly with Tomkins. I read those pieces before and had the same reaction. WHAT. THE. FUCK. ARE YOU ON ABOUT?!? What they have written make no sense at all, and I can only assume it is deliberate trolling to generate hits for their articles.

 

[Fabio]

Media in liverpool slating shocker

TBH its prob a couple of cunts who were told what to write (as FFF hypothesized), because Dalglish gives NOTHING to the media and some despise him for it

 

[King Binny]

Alan Green:

I sincerely hope that Kenny Dalglish wasn’t too serious in saying that he might consult Liverpool’s American owners about whether or not to take his current criticism of referees further.

If he does, I hope that they say “don’t”.

I am no more a fan of Mark Clattenburg than Dalglish is. I put him in the same woeful category as Lee Mason and Lee Probert. When I see their names in charge of games I’m about to commentate on I wince; but not because I think they are ‘biased’ but because they are simply not very good.

But only Sir Alex Ferguson, and I’m sure that’s who Dalglish was hinting at over the weekend, has made criticism of referees an ‘art form’.

When he’s allowed to get away with it — still too often — most referees seem terrified at the thought of offending him further.

However, why don’t ALL managers stand by what they agreed to do some time ago: stay off referees’ backs and leave it to us in the media to say how useless they can be?

 

[FoxForceFive]

Kenny's simply deflected (very successfully) the attention away from a poor result onto him.

It's hardly a new tactic, but as it's worked he's obviously did it perfectly.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Binny link=topic=46838.msg1398441#msg1398441 date=1315917759]
Alan Green:

I sincerely hope that Kenny Dalglish wasn’t too serious in saying that he might consult Liverpool’s American owners about whether or not to take his current criticism of referees further.

If he does, I hope that they say “don’t”.

I am no more a fan of Mark Clattenburg than Dalglish is. I put him in the same woeful category as Lee Mason and Lee Probert. When I see their names in charge of games I’m about to commentate on I wince; but not because I think they are ‘biased’ but because they are simply not very good.

But only Sir Alex Ferguson, and I’m sure that’s who Dalglish was hinting at over the weekend, has made criticism of referees an ‘art form’.

When he’s allowed to get away with it — still too often — most referees seem terrified at the thought of offending him further.

However, why don’t ALL managers stand by what they agreed to do some time ago: stay off referees’ backs and leave it to us in the media to say how useless they can be?

[/quote]

Yeah, like that's going to happen as long as there's a hole in Ginsoak's squeaky @rse. Given that the football authorities are about as likely to do something effective about the old cnut as I am to find Kate Beckinsale in my bed tonight, IMO Kenny's right - this is something we have to look at doing as well.