Club up for sale

[ibromurph]

Yeah... But this isn't a game of he without sin should cast the first stone. How wide do you want to make the net where the guy making money as a businessman within a cleptocracy with some significant remaining democratic institutions is somehow equivalent to the guy running an absolutist state.

Cast it any wider and Liverpool as a team can't be supported because the whole city is a monument to colonialism and the slave trade.

This is a silly slippery slope. There's a difference between the money from despots and those from profiteers. You can see it even now in how they behave as one launders money and one chases profit.

I don't necessarily believe that "democracy" is always a good thing though. There's an assumption that it is and that it's the only way. There's also an assumption that all autocratic regimes are inherently bad. I don't believe that's the case either.

Countries that practice democracy are largely under the thumb of the US/UK/Europe. And they get bullied for resources and trade deals.

Look at my continent Africa and what "democracy" has done to it. What we really needed is a benevolent, intelligent dictator/regime because there is far more theft/crime/disease/poverty in countries with democracy than there are countries under an "autocratic regime". (I've been to UAE/Middle East and they're FAAAR more organised/advanced than we are in Africa).
It's just the reporting of such things, by a Western media, is often skewed, to make one believe that it's only people in these regimes that are suffering in some way. There is good democracy and bad democracy, just like there are good autocratic regimes and bad ones.

Where would most people feel safer? Qatar/Dubai (where you could literally leave your wallet unattended at a bar) or in democracies like South Africa/Nigeria, where you can't walk drive down certain streets at night for fear of getting robbed/killed.

Was Iraq better before or after, they were liberated under the flag of democracy? How about Libya? The US "liberated" them from Gaddafi. Their country is absolute mess right now, since then.

Like I said, I think there's an arrogance in the West, that its way of life is the correct one, and anyone not following so, is somehow unethical.

In terms of Liverpool, I take your/Mystic point on sports-washing (but even that I find a little assumptive that that's what they must be doing). And I also can see that there's certainly going to be a media backlash if we did take money from a regime that wasn't allies with the UK/US. Previously Russian money was "ok" with Usmanov/Ambramovich. Now Russian money is the worst thing in the world. I find it funny how these things change so quickly, according to Western media and the political agenda/climate.

 

[bluebell]

if they do get new shareholders to LFC/FSG just like they did with RedBird, don't think for one moment the dilution of shares will result in a windfall for the club. FSG will just go out and purchase another sports entity.
[article]
Liverpool owners Fenway Sports Group 'would consider new shareholders'

Last updated on1 hour ago1 hour ago.From the sectionLiverpool245

Liverpool owner John Henry (second left) with manager Jurgen Klopp
Liverpool's owners say they "would consider new shareholders" following reports that the club are up for sale.
The Athletic reported that Fenway Sports Group (FSG), which bought Liverpool in 2010, is "inviting offers".
FSG said it "remains fully committed to the success of Liverpool, both on and off the pitch".
Liverpool, Premier League runners-up last season, are eighth in the table.

• The Sports Desk: The Premier League's US takeover

They have reached the last 16 of the Champions League, where they will face Real Madrid in a repeat of last year's final.
An FSG statement read: "There have been a number of recent changes of ownership and rumours of changes in ownership at Premier League clubs and inevitably we are asked regularly about Fenway Sports Group's ownership in Liverpool.
"FSG has frequently received expressions of interest from third parties seeking to become shareholders in Liverpool.
"FSG has said before that under the right terms and conditions we would consider new shareholders if it was in the best interests of Liverpool as a club."
Liverpool supporters' union, Spirit of Shankly, said it hoped fans would be consulted in any talks involving new owners of the club.
"We have seen reports today that FSG have put Liverpool FC up for sale," it said in a statement.
"Spirit of Shankly have written to LFC for clarification and will await a reply before making comment. We do, however, expect both the Supporters Board and SOS to be engaged in some part of the process so that supporters are front and centre of any sale and the first thoughts of prospective owners.
"We will keep you updated."
FSG bought Liverpool in a £300m deal under its old name New England Sports Ventures.
Basketball star LeBron James has been a part-owner of Liverpool since 2011 and has a 2% stake which cost him £4.7m.
He has since become a minor partner in FSG, which also owns baseball side Boston Red Sox.
In March RedBird Capital Partners, a private investment firm, bought a stake in FSG for about $735m (£533m).
Liverpool's principal owner John W Henry apologised to the fans in April 2021 after the club backed out of a proposed European Super League.
Liverpool signed striker Darwin Nunez for £64m, attacking midfielder Fabio Carvalho for £5m and defender Calvin Ramsay for £4.2m this summer.
"From time to time I would be ready to risk a bit more but I don't decide that and that's fine," manager Jurgen Klopp said in August.
[/article]

 

[Judge Jules]

I don't know why Ratcliffe ever gets mentioned in this context anyway. He's a Manc. Not going to happen.

 

[rurikbird]

 

[HC]

I don't know why Ratcliffe ever gets mentioned in this context anyway. He's a Manc. Not going to happen.

Not sure he was fully invested in going for Chelsea wasn't he ? Think he just wants his grubby mitts over a big club, wouldn't surprise me if he was interested in a stake or wholly owning the club

 

[Fabio]

The game was already done, but if we get bought by oil merchants then i think a lot of hardcore fans would throw in the towel.

I'm already partway transitioning from a Liverpool fan to a Vikings fan. Following more than 1 sport is weird

 

[tomasjj]

he never cared about football, and we knew this
he is a money man, and that is all his hollow soul is about, the poor lizard fucker

 

[King Binny]

When the going gets tough, the tough "gets going" 😛

 

[Mystic]

Which part are you referring to as right wing nonsense?

"or the way they have imposed a LGBTQ agenda in the classroom as warping young ppls minds, or the way you get cancelled for saying anything remotely non-PC as abuse of freedom of speech"

Whether you agree with the sentiment or not this is clearly the kind of exaggerated nonsense right wing clowns like Darren Grimes and our very own Dantes froath on about. If you want to reply telling me how I've got it wrong and the countries a fucked snowflake land, don't, create a thread in general chat which I'll ignore, but at least it won't drag this thread any further off topic.

 

[ibromurph]

"or the way they have imposed a LGBTQ agenda in the classroom as warping young ppls minds, or the way you get cancelled for saying anything remotely non-PC as abuse of freedom of speech"

Whether you agree with the sentiment or not this is clearly the kind of exaggerated nonsense right wing clowns like Darren Grimes and our very own Dantes froath on about. If you want to reply telling me how I've got it wrong and the countries a fucked snowflake land, don't, create a thread in general chat which I'll ignore, but at least it won't drag this thread any further off topic.

If I offended you, I apologise. But I think you missed the point I was making.

Some of what I said I don't necessarily believe in, but what I was doing was showing the other side of the coin. That in places like the Middle-East and even in some "democracies" like South Africa, Nigeria or Uganda; there's a prevailing thought that the West is far too liberal and the balance is off. There's many people who don't see or agree with everything that's done in the West; and guess what, that's OK too. Not everything in the West is virtuous and the "right" way to live. People have their own cultures and customs; we shouldn't necessarily look down on them as a regressive culture because they don't believe what's believed in the West.. nor can we say they are wrong, or they are immoral, or their money is any worse because of their beliefs. That was my point; they could equally look at different things happening in the West as immoral/wrong, whether you think their thoughts are nonsense or not.

Now having said that, you can argue, why would they invest in a club, which is located in a land where they don't share the same beliefs? Well, probably the same reason why businesses/investors in the UK/US go to their lands and invest, even if they don't have the same culture/customs - money? prestige? politics?

 

[Fabio]

If I offended you, I apologise. But I think you missed the point I was making.

Some of what I said I don't necessarily believe in, but what I was doing was showing the other side of the coin. That in places like the Middle-East and even in some "democracies" like South Africa, Nigeria or Uganda; there's a prevailing thought that the West is far too liberal and the balance is off. There's many people who don't see or agree with everything that's done in the West; and guess what, that's OK too. Not everything in the West is virtuous and the "right" way to live. People have their own cultures and customs; we shouldn't necessarily look down on them as a regressive culture because they don't believe what's believed in the West.. nor can we say they are wrong, or they are immoral, or their money is any worse because of their beliefs. That was my point; they could equally look at different things happening in the West as immoral/wrong, whether you think their thoughts are nonsense or not.

Now having said that, you can argue, why would they invest in a club, which is located in a land where they don't share the same beliefs? Well, probably the same reason why businesses/investors in the UK/US go to their lands and invest, even if they don't have the same culture/customs - money? prestige? politics?

Now, i understand your point, but it's also dangerously close to towing the city line of "oh, so you're xenophobic then" that they launched at Klopp.

I don't believe that it's so untoward to hope that something close to your heart at least is owned or run by people similar to your own beliefs. I don't believe thats xenophobia, as much as moving with the times. I appreciate morality and ethics are something that are personal to each person, however if they're being held back by ancient texts, I do have to have concerns

 

[ibromurph]

Now, i understand your point, but it's also dangerously close to towing the city line of "oh, so you're xenophobic then" that they launched at Klopp.

I don't believe that it's so untoward to hope that something close to your heart at least is owned or run by people similar to your own beliefs. I don't believe thats xenophobia, as much as moving with the times. I appreciate morality and ethics are something that are personal to each person, however if they're being held back by ancient texts, I do have to have concerns

Heh, I can co-sign that. Absolutely. And I think it's necessary to have such harmony between the owners and the supporters of the club.

Especially at Liverpool.

It was just the morality/ethics assumptions that riled me up a bit.

 

[keniget]

Anyways, let's get this thread back on track.

I think the morally bankrupt Middle East entities are fairly well represented in football at the moment.

East Asia on the other hand...

North Korea needs an image makeover and a successful football team would do wonders. I'm sure the citizens themselves would rather starve to support a title winning team than another missile test.

Let's go get that blood money!

 

[Farkmaster]

Why are you comparing the middle east to the west for this argument for moral relativism.

I wasn't aware that a head of state in the west had purchased a football team.

 

[doctor_mac]

3 billion and the rest. We're going to be owned by dirty money whatever way you slice it.

 

[doctor_mac]

And I feel shit about that. Still prefer we aren't owned by despots who suppress the rights of women and minorities.

 

[ibromurph]

Why are you comparing the middle east to the west for this argument for moral relativism.

I wasn't aware that a head of state in the west had purchased a football team.

Heh, I suppose when a Western Government bankroll clubs a football club, at least they are honest enough, to do it illegally, right? (Madrid/Barcelona)

https://www.euronews.com/2021/03/04...nish-fooball-clubs-received-illegal-state-aid

Those bloody immoral Middle Easterns have the nerve to actually buy a football club before funding it. *end sarcasm*

Moreover, didn't Silvio Berlusconi own AC Milan whilst he was PM?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...sted-from-italian-parliament-due-to-tax-fraud

 

[tomasjj]

3 billion and the rest. We're going to be owned by dirty money whatever way you slice it.

just about degrees

and degrees of distance and levels of obfuscation from human rights abuses

 

[moron]

OK dirty money ? Have never thought City or the other billionaires got dirty money. They just worked outside of a system or sold energy to get rich. You think Henry's money is clean given what Hedge funds do ? Probably more hardship and famine is caused by hedge funds than anything else.

 

[Farkmaster]

I don't understand what the argument is here. I've always hated real Madrid because of their connection to Franco. So do millions in Spain.

It kindof fits their whole royal cunty thing though. Do you not see why that would be anathema to Liverpool as a club and a city?

 

[Fabio]

You're absolutely correct, it sounds like exaggerated nonsense that could not possibly be true. I live in the US and am sad to say that it is accurate. The poster you responded to made a relevant point pertinent to the topic of this thread. I only wish it was nonsense.

I'd like to know what the LGBTQ agenda in schools is? I personally have no problem with more fabulous kids, as opposed to the ones that shoot up everyone

 

[ibromurph]

I'd like to know what the LGBTQ agenda in schools is? I personally have no problem with more fabulous kids, as opposed to the ones that shoot up everyone

Let me choose violence for a second:

 

[Fabio]

I have very little sympathy for the plight of right wing americans, as they're so hell bent on following a dogma thats centuries old. Weird, because thats precisely the reason they like to bomb the shit out of other countries.

 

[Fabio]

Let me choose violence for a second:

You cannot genuinely expect me to watch an Andrew Tate video. Hes probably the way he is because he found a trans girl hot and feels a way about it

 

[Fabio]

Now i'm done

I personally can't wait for nunez to have a haircut like kim jong un @Farkmaster

 

[ibromurph]

You cannot genuinely expect me to watch an Andrew Tate video.

You're unwilling or unable to listen to a 2 min clip of someone you disagree with? This is part of the problem and why we can't find centre ground on issues.

 

[Farkmaster]

You're absolutely correct, it sounds like exaggerated nonsense that could not possibly be true. I live in the US and am sad to say that it is accurate. The poster you responded to made a relevant point pertinent to the topic of this thread. I only wish it was nonsense.

It largely depends where you live in the US, like many things.

Some places have recently, and reluctantly recognized that LGBTQ people exist, as they have throughout all history in all places.

In other places, you're more likely to have a fucking awful existence if you happen to be gay, and you'd better shut the fuck up about it in school. For some reason this is a relief to some people, who pursue their own "agenda." It would be presumptuous of me to even think about assessing the relative ethical strengths of each position.

 

[Fabio]

You're unwilling or unable to listen to a 2 min clip of someone you disagree with? This is part of the problem and why we can't find centre ground on issues.

No, the issue is one side being so far from "centre" that the left feels obliged to hear them to find middle ground. That middle ground ends up being comfortably right wing. It's disingenuous in the extreme and its exactly what these youtube charlatans do. These "debate me" bros. It's always an expectation of the left to concede and "be reasonable". No, Fuck that noise. It's duplicitous and i dislike it immensely.

One side is moving with the times, and one side refuses. Why on earth should we be shackled by people who don't want to progress, for the good of society as a whole

 

[Farkmaster]

Now i'm done

I personally can't wait for nunez to have a haircut like kim jong un @Farkmaster

That's a preposterous idea, they don't have the money.

 

[Fabio]

That's a preposterous idea, they don't have the money.

Thats not What Kim Jong un says