All day, every day
CL Last 16 draw
- Thread starter Frogfish
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All day, every day
I hope to God they keep him
They probably will, because they weren't going anywhere in the CL anyway.
I don't think the top brass at Man U are too bothered by the result.
Being finished tomorrow kicking off at 17.55
We don't need a statement of intent right now.
He cost them £85m, and the only silverware he's won is a pair of Greek handcuffs.
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I hear that he's better than Trent...
I think beating a good team would be a bigger statement of intent.
I think the problem here is, in a lot of languages, "Negru" or "Negrito" and variations like it, all mean "black" or "dark" in some of form.
So to the official, he's not being racist. He's just using an identifier. We can debates the merits of whether he could have used a different one, especially in this charged climate of BLM.
Whereas to Webu, in African culture, "Negru" or "Negro" is racist language. He's probably thought the lines man was saying "the nigger". So obviously, his reaction is justified to what he believes was said (and meant). There's definitely a big breakdown in culture/languages here, because the linesman uses the term a few times in that video clip (almost, unaware of why Webu is getting angry over it).
As has been said, I think this could have been de-esculated with a "sorry, you misunderstood" and a rescinding of the red card.
Yeah but it seems it has indeed been lost in translation and as is the modern way everyone explodes without trying to understand what was said/happened. The 4th official could have been more sensitive but I can't say for sure he was being racist.
Is this what happened ? :
1. The ref (on the pitch) is talking to the 4th Official via the mic and asks him who offended
2. the 4th official says (in Romanian) "the black guy" to identify the man amongst a group (if the men's colours were reversed would anyone object to saying "the white guy")
3. All hell breaks loose. Firstly because the Romanian word for black is 'negru' and then (listen to the clip) because Webo objects to being called black and is then heard trying to educate the official in how to speak English.
Of course Romanians are generally notorious for their racism so maybe it was indeed meant as a racial slur.
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A Portuguese guy on another forum explained it this way :
In Portugal we're taught to say 'negro' (portuguese word) to refer to a black person while calling them 'preto' which means black is actually a racist insult. So it's pretty much the complete opposite of what happens in english for example, given the similarity between portuguese and romanian languages that could have been what happened.
I'm sorry but I don't see why every language in the world should have to fall in line with English and start adulterating their languages to pacify English speaking people. There are plenty of other cases involving 'foreign language' words being potentially offensive to English speakers just because they sound like an English word considered a profanity or abusive.
I lived in Nigeria for 5 years (OK this was many years ago and attitudes have changed greatly since) but I was always referred to as 'the white guy' in English or the same in the local languages, Hausa, Yoruba or Igbo. They would even address me as "hey white guy" if they didn't know my name. On a daily basis, often many times a day. I knew no offence was meant back then but I doubt it's any different today.
And if was pointing out a white guy in a group of people who were predominantly black I'd certainly say "the white guy". Wouldn't you?
It is ok for you to refer to me as a brown guy. It is ok for an African American to refer to a person of white skin as a white guy. It is not ok to refer to a dark skin person as a black guy. There is a little bit of hypocrisy at play here but it is due to the historical connotation and context of the reference and what it used to represent. All of us should be cognizant of that
I also agree that in a lot of cultures, it is common to refer to people by their skin. In Tamil Nadu in India, Karrupannan is a common name. It means "Dark one". It does not have any negative connotation. There are different variations of names and words starting with Karuppu (meaning dark or black). For example, Karuppuswamy, etc.
Having said that this official was not a random person from Romania. He is a UEFA trained official. Given the current political climate, all the issues regarding race swirling around, I am sure he was instructed or trained by UEFA to not make any reference to players' color. If not, then shame on UEFA also. If Karrupannan becomes a UEFA official and refers to a player as that black player, it is still not ok. Just because it is a term of endearment back home in Tamil Nadu does not excuse him.
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Just using an identifier ... would he ever have pointed at one of the other players and said "it was that white player"?
Its an inappropriate and racist use of the "identifier"; I could potentially give him the excuse of it not being intentionally racist, but you would have to think, in this day & age and with all the focus on BLM in football and beyond, a senior UEFA official would know better
Demba Ba (posted earlier by @King Binny) explained it -
Yeah, I agree. I dont think it was meant in a negative way by the 4th official, and I agree with your post.
I just think in this charged climate that identifying players by their kit number is the safest way without causing any miscommunication, given any language that the officiating team might use.
Hahaha !Because it makes things easier, old boy!
The last one was great - best way to deal with racism. Want to be a racist cunt? ok, but kick in the nuts.
I don’t see it the same issue, you missed the point. Let’s remove the difference in cultural context, would a fellow white person call another white person white person? Even within a minority in a group of black people and not in my 30yrs of working with in Europe so have to disagree with you there.
I think the key is it’s probably the weakest thing Demba Ba has probably been called but sometimes things build up and have to consider history of abuse and maybe he just had enough. Fair play to him for speaking out and for both teams to make a stand.
Having been in Romania for a university experience for 2 weeks back in the day in Iasi, in my own experience they even referred to certain people as black for fellow country men whom are darker than themselves such as Romanians
Thing is, if the word for black in Romanian was "black".. and he said, it was the black one, Webo and then Ba, would not have been offended. They would have just been contesting the red card.
It's the fact he said "Negru", which sounds like "Negro/Nigger" and thus is interpreted as such, that has caused this confusion.
The official wasn't being racist in his own mind. No one is THAT stupid to do so, when they know they a mic'ed up. But he did say a word, that sounded racist so I understand the backlash.
It might only work if your home ground is in Turkey, and the referee has a wife and kids he would like to see again. Otherwise given the red card that might follow, you need to make sure you're already 2-0 up and there's only five minutes to go.
On this 4th point. It was Webo who objects. And then Demba Ba, who steps in and tries to educate the official on how to speak English.
The last line, whilst being true (are we now being racist? Ha!), I doubt was intended as a slur, simply because he knows he was mic'ed up. This isn't something he whispered, or said once. The man said it 2 or 3 times, not understanding the fuss Webo was making of it.
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